5 ms·

"Download" is literally the eighth word on the page, and fourth word on the navigation bar. If a person can't see that, they're destined for a Darwin award.

by kick 7y ago

oefrha 7y ago
Now, click on the eighth word and try to figure out how to actually download. I'll wait. (And compare it to a modern site, say, firefox.com or chrome.com.)
- y4mi 7y ago
  took me 3 seconds... but i was trained by living through that era. nowadays people will probably miss the download link by mistaking it with some advertisements or something similar. they look just like it nowadays... though back then, the ads where mostly Flash so you it wasnt auto-filtered by your brain like it is now :)
- toby- 7y ago
  Took me about 2 seconds. The large, bold "Click to download Sandboxie version 5.31.6 from ..." helped. ;) Or, under the <h1> title "Downloads", the bolded table header "Download from" with the "Download from this site" link. Good design doesn't require a huge, centred, flashing "DOWNLOAD!" button. This seems clear and uncluttered enough to me.
  - chalupa-man 7y ago
    I guarantee you this design would confuse a lot of people. Imagine you're not the computer savviest person around, how you'd read this. - The large, bolded "Click to download" text isn't clickable, like pretty much every other "Click to..." prompt you've seen. - After a moment of confusion you think oh okay, there'll be a list of links to places I can download it from then. But there isn't. There's just the product logo. Download the product from itself, maybe? But why is it written like there's supposed to be a list? Hm. - Oh wait, after "Download the latest version" there's a separate section called "Downloads", that's where the downloads must be. - Okay, down there after a while there's bold text that says "Download", but that's not clickable, nor is the text next to it that says "Sandboxie Installer." Keep reading. - Ah, okay, here's a table with a single row for some reason, with a nice link "Download from this site." - Wait, why did "Download from this site" take me to a completely different site? The address in the bar is totally different, the design is totally different, I've never heard of this new site before and it wants me to give them my job title, full name, company name, and zip code. Is this a popup ad? Is this a scam? I thought I was downloading it from that site I was just on. Incidentally it doesn't matter as the form doesn't understand my country's zip code system and won't accept it.
    - toby- 7y ago
      Reading through your comment and looking back at the Download page, I think you're right. The linkified image is especially poor design (although, I think the intention becomes more obvious when there are multiple linkified images to common software-download destinations, e.g. SourceForge or FileHippo, as (IIRC) was previously the case). I suppose it may just boil down to a fundamental difference of opinion; I don't really think it's necessary for every website to try to accommodate entirely non-tech savvy users — especially a site offering software that already assumes existing technical ability (if you can't negotiate an antiquated download page, you're probably going to struggle to use a lot of software of that era, including Sandboxie).
      - oefrha 7y ago
        The topic of this thread is whether the website at question is “fast-loading, simple, information-dense and distinctively-styled yet still very readable” compared to today’s mainstream/recommended designs. My take is that information sprinkled in walls of text of dubious value instead of elements that naturally stand out is not readable or actionable at all. If your argument is tech-savvy people should be made to jump through hurdles to download this specific tool, then (1) I don’t agree with this pointless gatekeeping, time wasted is time wasted; (2) you’re not refuting my point. Also, I can find the download link in maybe 5 seconds, but I bet my father who happens to be an aging software engineer, savvy enough to use this but getting slower, definitely can’t.
        imtringued 7y ago
        You're making the wrong assumption that getting as many users on board for an aging non-profitable non-core project is actually a goal. I personally have a project that is in it's early stages and the worst thing that could happen right now is that it goes viral and then I won't be able to work on it at my own pace anymore. Having a user base of 3 people is already tiring enough as it is.
        oefrha 7y ago
- numismatex 7y ago
  took me a whole 5 seconds. you're just slow, and i took a xanax a bit ago to boot
greenhatman 7y ago
The text is too small and spans most of the screen. Difficult to read on big monitors. Reading that grey block on mobile is also really straining. I actually just gave up and came to read the comments instead. The word 'download' is exactly the same font as everything else. So it's hard to find. Why not have a button that stands out? There are 2 links called 'click here'. So you have the read the surrounding text before knowing where you want to click. I can't think of a good reason not to have a clear call to action button that stands out from the rest of the page. Compared to almost any modern site, this is really bad.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  I think you’re overrating modern web design. For example recently I have been frustrated at the amount of web sites I have been on which “respond” to the geometry of the browser by completely removing essential navigational elements of the site and giving the user no indication that anything is missing. This makes for example using the site in a web browser tiled to half the screen width on a laptop impossible. This site even works perfectly on mobile, because it doesn’t change to simplify itself to the point of being unusable, like many modern web sites do, often even refusing to stop doing so when choosing “request desktop site” in the mobile browser.
- BlueGh0st 7y ago
  > Difficult to read on big monitors. I'm on a 55 inch screen and have no problems with this website. In fact, I much prefer it to websites that only fill the center third with content.
- userbinator 7y ago
  Why not have a button that stands out? I've been conditioned to almost subconsciously ignore "big green download buttons", because the vast majority of them are fake.
  - greenhatman 7y ago
    Then you're probably on scammy sites too often. The only sites I know of that does that are pirate sites.
wpietri 7y ago
You cut out the important part of what you're replying to. They'll only download it if they know what it is. For that, the page is poorly designed. It wasn't until I got down to the very bottom that I understood the user value proposition, which is explained in the review quote: "[...] Sandboxie, which lets you run programs independent of the rest of your system. That way they can't infect, access, or otherwise interfere with your Windows installation [...]"
- TheRealPomax 7y ago
  Sorry, are we ignoring the fact that the primary nav, which any person familiar with "web sites" since the 90's knows to look at, has both "help & faq" _and_ "how it works" as options? Are we talking about people who don't understand that if you want the actual details rather than the summary, that's not going to be on the landing page, but on their own dedicated pages?
  - wpietri 7y ago
    We're not "ignoring" that. It's just that some of us are familiar with how fickle users are. Anybody making a product they actually want people to use should have a home page that explains early on the user problem and how the product solves that problem, and then makes it easy for people to get the product. As an example, take this Android tool I just downloaded: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.dvilleneuve.lockito&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.dvilleneuve... Very early on, the copy says: "Lockito allows you to make your phone follow a fake itinerary, with total control over the speed, altitude and GPS signal accuracy. You can also simulate a static location. This is the must-have tool for any Android developers who needs to test geofencing-based apps or just test his app on different locations." It's a clear, concise description of what the tool does, who needs it, and why. If you don't have that, will some people still rummage around and download your thing regardless? Sure. But fewer of them. And here, for a product that people may not know they need, it could be a lot fewer.
- imtringued 7y ago
  I don't get it. The people who made the website clearly decided that an announcement that primarily affects the existing user base was more important than explaining them what sandboxie is for the ten millionth time.

"Download" is literally the eighth word on the page, and fourth word on the navigation bar. If a person can't see that, they're destined for a Darwin award.

by kick 7y ago

"Download" is literally the eighth word on the page, and fourth word on the navigation bar. If a person can't see that, they're destined for a Darwin award.

oefrha 7y ago

Now, click on the eighth word and try to figure out how to actually download. I'll wait. (And compare it to a modern site, say, firefox.com or chrome.com.)

y4mi 7y ago
took me 3 seconds... but i was trained by living through that era. nowadays people will probably miss the download link by mistaking it with some advertisements or something similar. they look just like it nowadays... though back then, the ads where mostly Flash so you it wasnt auto-filtered by your brain like it is now :)
toby- 7y ago
Took me about 2 seconds. The large, bold "Click to download Sandboxie version 5.31.6 from ..." helped. ;) Or, under the <h1> title "Downloads", the bolded table header "Download from" with the "Download from this site" link. Good design doesn't require a huge, centred, flashing "DOWNLOAD!" button. This seems clear and uncluttered enough to me.
- chalupa-man 7y ago
  I guarantee you this design would confuse a lot of people. Imagine you're not the computer savviest person around, how you'd read this. - The large, bolded "Click to download" text isn't clickable, like pretty much every other "Click to..." prompt you've seen. - After a moment of confusion you think oh okay, there'll be a list of links to places I can download it from then. But there isn't. There's just the product logo. Download the product from itself, maybe? But why is it written like there's supposed to be a list? Hm. - Oh wait, after "Download the latest version" there's a separate section called "Downloads", that's where the downloads must be. - Okay, down there after a while there's bold text that says "Download", but that's not clickable, nor is the text next to it that says "Sandboxie Installer." Keep reading. - Ah, okay, here's a table with a single row for some reason, with a nice link "Download from this site." - Wait, why did "Download from this site" take me to a completely different site? The address in the bar is totally different, the design is totally different, I've never heard of this new site before and it wants me to give them my job title, full name, company name, and zip code. Is this a popup ad? Is this a scam? I thought I was downloading it from that site I was just on. Incidentally it doesn't matter as the form doesn't understand my country's zip code system and won't accept it.
  - toby- 7y ago
    Reading through your comment and looking back at the Download page, I think you're right. The linkified image is especially poor design (although, I think the intention becomes more obvious when there are multiple linkified images to common software-download destinations, e.g. SourceForge or FileHippo, as (IIRC) was previously the case). I suppose it may just boil down to a fundamental difference of opinion; I don't really think it's necessary for every website to try to accommodate entirely non-tech savvy users — especially a site offering software that already assumes existing technical ability (if you can't negotiate an antiquated download page, you're probably going to struggle to use a lot of software of that era, including Sandboxie).
    - oefrha 7y ago
      The topic of this thread is whether the website at question is “fast-loading, simple, information-dense and distinctively-styled yet still very readable” compared to today’s mainstream/recommended designs. My take is that information sprinkled in walls of text of dubious value instead of elements that naturally stand out is not readable or actionable at all. If your argument is tech-savvy people should be made to jump through hurdles to download this specific tool, then (1) I don’t agree with this pointless gatekeeping, time wasted is time wasted; (2) you’re not refuting my point. Also, I can find the download link in maybe 5 seconds, but I bet my father who happens to be an aging software engineer, savvy enough to use this but getting slower, definitely can’t.
      - imtringued 7y ago
        You're making the wrong assumption that getting as many users on board for an aging non-profitable non-core project is actually a goal. I personally have a project that is in it's early stages and the worst thing that could happen right now is that it goes viral and then I won't be able to work on it at my own pace anymore. Having a user base of 3 people is already tiring enough as it is.
        oefrha 7y ago
numismatex 7y ago
took me a whole 5 seconds. you're just slow, and i took a xanax a bit ago to boot

greenhatman 7y ago

The text is too small and spans most of the screen. Difficult to read on big monitors. Reading that grey block on mobile is also really straining. I actually just gave up and came to read the comments instead. The word 'download' is exactly the same font as everything else. So it's hard to find. Why not have a button that stands out? There are 2 links called 'click here'. So you have the read the surrounding text before knowing where you want to click. I can't think of a good reason not to have a clear call to action button that stands out from the rest of the page. Compared to almost any modern site, this is really bad.

ubercow13 7y ago
I think you’re overrating modern web design. For example recently I have been frustrated at the amount of web sites I have been on which “respond” to the geometry of the browser by completely removing essential navigational elements of the site and giving the user no indication that anything is missing. This makes for example using the site in a web browser tiled to half the screen width on a laptop impossible. This site even works perfectly on mobile, because it doesn’t change to simplify itself to the point of being unusable, like many modern web sites do, often even refusing to stop doing so when choosing “request desktop site” in the mobile browser.
BlueGh0st 7y ago
> Difficult to read on big monitors. I'm on a 55 inch screen and have no problems with this website. In fact, I much prefer it to websites that only fill the center third with content.
userbinator 7y ago
Why not have a button that stands out? I've been conditioned to almost subconsciously ignore "big green download buttons", because the vast majority of them are fake.
- greenhatman 7y ago
  Then you're probably on scammy sites too often. The only sites I know of that does that are pirate sites.

wpietri 7y ago

You cut out the important part of what you're replying to. They'll only download it if they know what it is. For that, the page is poorly designed. It wasn't until I got down to the very bottom that I understood the user value proposition, which is explained in the review quote: "[...] Sandboxie, which lets you run programs independent of the rest of your system. That way they can't infect, access, or otherwise interfere with your Windows installation [...]"

TheRealPomax 7y ago
Sorry, are we ignoring the fact that the primary nav, which any person familiar with "web sites" since the 90's knows to look at, has both "help & faq" _and_ "how it works" as options? Are we talking about people who don't understand that if you want the actual details rather than the summary, that's not going to be on the landing page, but on their own dedicated pages?
- wpietri 7y ago
  We're not "ignoring" that. It's just that some of us are familiar with how fickle users are. Anybody making a product they actually want people to use should have a home page that explains early on the user problem and how the product solves that problem, and then makes it easy for people to get the product. As an example, take this Android tool I just downloaded: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.dvilleneuve.lockito&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.dvilleneuve... Very early on, the copy says: "Lockito allows you to make your phone follow a fake itinerary, with total control over the speed, altitude and GPS signal accuracy. You can also simulate a static location. This is the must-have tool for any Android developers who needs to test geofencing-based apps or just test his app on different locations." It's a clear, concise description of what the tool does, who needs it, and why. If you don't have that, will some people still rummage around and download your thing regardless? Sure. But fewer of them. And here, for a product that people may not know they need, it could be a lot fewer.
imtringued 7y ago
I don't get it. The people who made the website clearly decided that an announcement that primarily affects the existing user base was more important than explaining them what sandboxie is for the ten millionth time.