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I think it's worth noting that the three authors of the article are all women. This is an explicit rejection of the "Lead Developers are your gods, and if you c

I think it's worth noting that the three authors of the article are all women. This is an explicit rejection of the "Lead Developers are your gods, and if you can't accept their vile/vulgar/abusive takedowns during code reviews as sage wisdom, you need to grow thicker skin" mentality that is particularly repelling to women in the tech community.

thanhhaimai 7y ago
It's always great to see more women authors and diversity in tech. At the same time, I think interpretating this as an explicit rejection of the above seems a bit stretch. I've seen these advice at Google for a long time. My intern host taught me to not be personal, and that "criticizing the code is not criticizing you" 7 years ago. I'd love more help to understand the above claim.
- kradroy 7y ago
  I learned that in grad school. From the transmitting side: "criticize the ideas, not the person." From the receiving side: "they're criticizing your work, not you." This was actually the most useful thing I learned in grad school. Thank god those two years were on the donors' dime(s). I also think the parent commenter's interpretation is an exaggeration.
  - sprflyprgrmrguy 7y ago
    | From the receiving side: "they're criticizing your work, not you." For a lot of developers they see their work as an extension of themselves. I think this might be the case for a lot of folks whose primary work is thought work.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    “Oh honey, bless your heart. You are a lovely person, honest. But you can’t program for shit.”
silveroriole 7y ago
Those of us who got into programming BECAUSE of the famous ‘characters’ of open source and their ranty comments find it quite repellent to have codes of conduct and women in the position of cultural politeness enforcers. Even using an emoji/joke might be wrong? Really? The idea that women are uniquely invested in this sort of stuff only damages my perception as a female programmer. Who’s going to want to joke around with me or review my code if I’m the fun police?
- asdfman123 7y ago
  When these sorts of issues come up people tend to argue that learning to speak respectfully is a huge imposition. It's hard to change, but it's a really, really useful skill to learn. It makes everything go more smoothly. It's totally possible to joke and have fun, just don't... attack people and their ideas. Try not to blame. It's actually very simple in practice and isn't very far reaching at all. You can still have fun, you can still joke around, but you have to realize if you attack people it's going to create a hostile environment for a lot of people, men and women included.
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    The problem is that respectful speech is itself a widely varying cultural standard. For example, one problem I consistently face is with interruptions. In my native culture, interruptions are entirely normal outside of formal speech. I try to tone this down in the workplace to accommodate other people, and similarly, most people try to understand that I mean well when my lifetime of cultural baggage slips through. But I have to be incredibly careful with my speech patterns around "respect and inclusivity" people, because they always interpret my interruptions as intolerable and deliberate rudeness.
- voxl 7y ago
  You missed the point. The point is a person with power over you needs to be respectful of that power. Your boss is never going to be as buddy-buddy with you as a coworker, because your boss has a lot more say over your pay and whether or not you're going to be fired. The famous "characters" of open source are notorious, not famous. No one looks at a Linus rant and says "Wow I want to try my hand at adding a patch for Linux!". No, they say "Wow, I want to have that kind of power!" That's just the rub, isn't it, you don't get to decide that we have to be hazed because you want the potential to hold that power of us.

thanhhaimai 7y ago

It's always great to see more women authors and diversity in tech. At the same time, I think interpretating this as an explicit rejection of the above seems a bit stretch. I've seen these advice at Google for a long time. My intern host taught me to not be personal, and that "criticizing the code is not criticizing you" 7 years ago. I'd love more help to understand the above claim.

kradroy 7y ago
I learned that in grad school. From the transmitting side: "criticize the ideas, not the person." From the receiving side: "they're criticizing your work, not you." This was actually the most useful thing I learned in grad school. Thank god those two years were on the donors' dime(s). I also think the parent commenter's interpretation is an exaggeration.
- sprflyprgrmrguy 7y ago
  | From the receiving side: "they're criticizing your work, not you." For a lot of developers they see their work as an extension of themselves. I think this might be the case for a lot of folks whose primary work is thought work.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  “Oh honey, bless your heart. You are a lovely person, honest. But you can’t program for shit.”

silveroriole 7y ago

Those of us who got into programming BECAUSE of the famous ‘characters’ of open source and their ranty comments find it quite repellent to have codes of conduct and women in the position of cultural politeness enforcers. Even using an emoji/joke might be wrong? Really? The idea that women are uniquely invested in this sort of stuff only damages my perception as a female programmer. Who’s going to want to joke around with me or review my code if I’m the fun police?

asdfman123 7y ago
When these sorts of issues come up people tend to argue that learning to speak respectfully is a huge imposition. It's hard to change, but it's a really, really useful skill to learn. It makes everything go more smoothly. It's totally possible to joke and have fun, just don't... attack people and their ideas. Try not to blame. It's actually very simple in practice and isn't very far reaching at all. You can still have fun, you can still joke around, but you have to realize if you attack people it's going to create a hostile environment for a lot of people, men and women included.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  The problem is that respectful speech is itself a widely varying cultural standard. For example, one problem I consistently face is with interruptions. In my native culture, interruptions are entirely normal outside of formal speech. I try to tone this down in the workplace to accommodate other people, and similarly, most people try to understand that I mean well when my lifetime of cultural baggage slips through. But I have to be incredibly careful with my speech patterns around "respect and inclusivity" people, because they always interpret my interruptions as intolerable and deliberate rudeness.
voxl 7y ago
You missed the point. The point is a person with power over you needs to be respectful of that power. Your boss is never going to be as buddy-buddy with you as a coworker, because your boss has a lot more say over your pay and whether or not you're going to be fired. The famous "characters" of open source are notorious, not famous. No one looks at a Linus rant and says "Wow I want to try my hand at adding a patch for Linux!". No, they say "Wow, I want to have that kind of power!" That's just the rub, isn't it, you don't get to decide that we have to be hazed because you want the potential to hold that power of us.