5 ms·

HoAs are no different with their cancerous rentseeking behavior. Here in TX, they can place a lien on your house if you don't pay your dues.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
all_blue_chucks 7y ago
HOA dues pay for the shared parts of your property. Of course they can seize your house if you don't pay for it. It's when they try to seize your house over nonsense like minor rule infraction that they become awful.
- matwood 7y ago
  HOAs can't seize anyone's house. They actually have very little power to collect. A lien doesn't mean much until the person goes to sell, and then it just has to be paid prior to a sale.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    The last home I had that was part of an HOA, they had the right to evict and rent your home out to recoup any fines and penalties (Illinois). They could also foreclose on the property.
    - matwood 7y ago
      The most I have seen an HOA able to do is foreclose for extreme late payment. By then the bank is typically foreclosing so it's cheaper for the HOA to wait. Plus, the HOA doesn't want foreclosures in the neighborhood as it brings down property values. It's just easier to wait for the homeowner to sell on their own. An eviction from a property where the HOA is not the owner (typical detached SFH) is not something I have seen. It also wouldn't make a lot of sense because 1 month of rent in my neighborhood would cover years of HOA dues. A shared condo environment is different because what is owned by the owner and the community is more intermingled.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
nradov 7y ago
How else do you expect the HOA to collect on legitimate debts? I have zero sympathy for freeloaders who fail to pay their share for association facilities.
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  Sometimes there are no properties in a general area not subject to an HOA. People don't always buy a home with an HOA because they want "facilities"; sometimes they buy a home with an HOA because they have little to no choice.
  - nradov 7y ago
    Irrelevant. If you sign a contract then you have to abide by it. You don't get to pick and choose. Furthermore your claim that there are no alternatives in some general areas is simply false. I defy you to identify a single residential area in the US where there are no non-HOA properties within 50 miles. Sure you might have to pay more or drive further but there are always alternatives.
    - dredmorbius 7y ago
      Not everything specified in a contract is just or legal: https://bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1920s1948-Restrictive-Covenants.html https://bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1920s1948-Restrictive... The principle of BATNA can define the more privileged party in a contract: https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/batna/translate-your-batna-to-the-current-deal/ https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/batna/translate-your-batna...
      - nradov 7y ago
        Old racist laws from 1948 are hardly relevant to HOA contracts today. I know what a BATNA is, and those are also totally irrelevant to HOA dues and liens. No one is putting a gun to buyers' heads and forcing them to sign.
        7y ago
alistairSH 7y ago
Yes, but when you pay off what you owe, the lien is lifted. And you agreed to the terms when you bought the property. Not even remotely the same thing as the state taking the property under force and profiting.
cosmie 7y ago
Same here in TN. And it's not limited to just dues - they can fine you for violations and place a lien for lack of payment of those fines, as well. I rent in a nice neighborhood, and the HOA really dislikes rentals. But they don't have enough support to get the bylaws changed to make it more difficult to rent. So instead they abuse the fine system by selectively enforcing mostly-ignored bylaws to create arbitrary violations for rented units and implicitly discourage owners from renting. The owner of my house never passed through any of the fines to me[1], and was very apologetic. But the notices finally irritated me to the point of putting up outside cameras. I gave my landlord video evidence of the HOA people logging violations outside, and walking right past the exact same violations[2] at several neighbors houses without even stopping. The violation letters stopped shortly after, and my landlord cut my rent by a sizable chunk as a thank you for helping him get that thorn out of his side. [1] Based on him giving me a break on the rent going forward, and my original rent being par for the neighborhood, I assume the market rate was already being padded significantly by everyone to account for the constant fines. [2] These are violations like the bushes hiding the HVAC unit from street view not being full enough (in the dead of winter when the leaves were thinned out), an older mailbox looking like an older mailbox despite it being consistent with the rest of the houses on the street, the trashcan still being on the street at 4PM on trash day despite everyone else not being home yet to pull theirs up yet either, the yard not being cut that week despite it having been raining too heavily for anyone to have cut their yard recently, etc.
- tstrimple 7y ago
  I feel like I must have really lucked out with our HOA. No drama. We pay a fee. They take care of the trees, common areas and keeping ice off the roads. Last year they cut down a bunch of trees that were being killed off by emerald ash borers, and this year planted new trees all along the road ways. We have 6 new trees on our property planted by the HOA.
mywittyname 7y ago
> Here in TX, they can place a lien on your house if you don't pay your dues. It's likely that anyone can place a lien on your house by just filing the appropriate paperwork.
FireBeyond 7y ago
It can get even better than that. HOAs have been known to put homes on the market to resolve a debt. And even better, they may decide to sell the home for substantially under market price. Even better, it won't go on the public market, because ever-so-conveniently, one of the HOA board members who voted to accept the under market lowball offers is... the board member who _made_ the lowball offer, to add to his property portfolio.
marcoseliziario 7y ago
I always found weird how Americans for all their talk about freedom and individuality, subject themselves to live in such suburban communities with so many restrictions and almost no privacy. Those communities always looked to me as some sort of protestant prison. Where everybody can watch everybody to make sure nobody is committing some sin. Where all the nosey bodies can keep close tabs on you and probably report any deviation for the pastor on Sundays. For me I want walls, I want to be able to walk naked in my garden if I want, to never ever have to close my curtains just because the jones from the other side of the street can look inside my house.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

all_blue_chucks 7y ago

HOA dues pay for the shared parts of your property. Of course they can seize your house if you don't pay for it. It's when they try to seize your house over nonsense like minor rule infraction that they become awful.

matwood 7y ago
HOAs can't seize anyone's house. They actually have very little power to collect. A lien doesn't mean much until the person goes to sell, and then it just has to be paid prior to a sale.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  The last home I had that was part of an HOA, they had the right to evict and rent your home out to recoup any fines and penalties (Illinois). They could also foreclose on the property.
  - matwood 7y ago
    The most I have seen an HOA able to do is foreclose for extreme late payment. By then the bank is typically foreclosing so it's cheaper for the HOA to wait. Plus, the HOA doesn't want foreclosures in the neighborhood as it brings down property values. It's just easier to wait for the homeowner to sell on their own. An eviction from a property where the HOA is not the owner (typical detached SFH) is not something I have seen. It also wouldn't make a lot of sense because 1 month of rent in my neighborhood would cover years of HOA dues. A shared condo environment is different because what is owned by the owner and the community is more intermingled.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

nradov 7y ago

How else do you expect the HOA to collect on legitimate debts? I have zero sympathy for freeloaders who fail to pay their share for association facilities.

JoshTriplett 7y ago
Sometimes there are no properties in a general area not subject to an HOA. People don't always buy a home with an HOA because they want "facilities"; sometimes they buy a home with an HOA because they have little to no choice.
- nradov 7y ago
  Irrelevant. If you sign a contract then you have to abide by it. You don't get to pick and choose. Furthermore your claim that there are no alternatives in some general areas is simply false. I defy you to identify a single residential area in the US where there are no non-HOA properties within 50 miles. Sure you might have to pay more or drive further but there are always alternatives.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Not everything specified in a contract is just or legal: https://bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1920s1948-Restrictive-Covenants.html https://bostonfairhousing.org/timeline/1920s1948-Restrictive... The principle of BATNA can define the more privileged party in a contract: https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/batna/translate-your-batna-to-the-current-deal/ https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/batna/translate-your-batna...
    - nradov 7y ago
      Old racist laws from 1948 are hardly relevant to HOA contracts today. I know what a BATNA is, and those are also totally irrelevant to HOA dues and liens. No one is putting a gun to buyers' heads and forcing them to sign.
      - 7y ago

alistairSH 7y ago

Yes, but when you pay off what you owe, the lien is lifted. And you agreed to the terms when you bought the property. Not even remotely the same thing as the state taking the property under force and profiting.

cosmie 7y ago

Same here in TN. And it's not limited to just dues - they can fine you for violations and place a lien for lack of payment of those fines, as well. I rent in a nice neighborhood, and the HOA really dislikes rentals. But they don't have enough support to get the bylaws changed to make it more difficult to rent. So instead they abuse the fine system by selectively enforcing mostly-ignored bylaws to create arbitrary violations for rented units and implicitly discourage owners from renting. The owner of my house never passed through any of the fines to me[1], and was very apologetic. But the notices finally irritated me to the point of putting up outside cameras. I gave my landlord video evidence of the HOA people logging violations outside, and walking right past the exact same violations[2] at several neighbors houses without even stopping. The violation letters stopped shortly after, and my landlord cut my rent by a sizable chunk as a thank you for helping him get that thorn out of his side. [1] Based on him giving me a break on the rent going forward, and my original rent being par for the neighborhood, I assume the market rate was already being padded significantly by everyone to account for the constant fines. [2] These are violations like the bushes hiding the HVAC unit from street view not being full enough (in the dead of winter when the leaves were thinned out), an older mailbox looking like an older mailbox despite it being consistent with the rest of the houses on the street, the trashcan still being on the street at 4PM on trash day despite everyone else not being home yet to pull theirs up yet either, the yard not being cut that week despite it having been raining too heavily for anyone to have cut their yard recently, etc.

tstrimple 7y ago
I feel like I must have really lucked out with our HOA. No drama. We pay a fee. They take care of the trees, common areas and keeping ice off the roads. Last year they cut down a bunch of trees that were being killed off by emerald ash borers, and this year planted new trees all along the road ways. We have 6 new trees on our property planted by the HOA.

mywittyname 7y ago

> Here in TX, they can place a lien on your house if you don't pay your dues. It's likely that anyone can place a lien on your house by just filing the appropriate paperwork.

FireBeyond 7y ago

It can get even better than that. HOAs have been known to put homes on the market to resolve a debt. And even better, they may decide to sell the home for substantially under market price. Even better, it won't go on the public market, because ever-so-conveniently, one of the HOA board members who voted to accept the under market lowball offers is... the board member who _made_ the lowball offer, to add to his property portfolio.

marcoseliziario 7y ago

I always found weird how Americans for all their talk about freedom and individuality, subject themselves to live in such suburban communities with so many restrictions and almost no privacy. Those communities always looked to me as some sort of protestant prison. Where everybody can watch everybody to make sure nobody is committing some sin. Where all the nosey bodies can keep close tabs on you and probably report any deviation for the pastor on Sundays. For me I want walls, I want to be able to walk naked in my garden if I want, to never ever have to close my curtains just because the jones from the other side of the street can look inside my house.