6 ms·

Alibaba... A few years back, I was prescribed a anti cancer, prescription drug that costs $4k per box. (5mg per day, 28day day supply). I went on Ali, and or

Alibaba... A few years back, I was prescribed a anti cancer, prescription drug that costs $4k per box. (5mg per day, 28day day supply). I went on Ali, and ordered 5lbs of the drug for $100 usd including shipping.

ihattendorf 7y ago
Honest question, how do you know you're actually getting the correct drug and that it isn't contaminated or cut with something else?
- swiley 7y ago
  You could send it to a chemist and ask them to do an NMR and have a pretty good idea (provided it’s just one molecule)
- rootsudo 7y ago
  You can test it yourself, but many times the same manufacturer in the USA is the same abroad. I would say India for Drugs is not a bad idea - if you're worried it's "from" China.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    I have not the remotest idea how I would test a cancer drug for myself to see if it was pure. I suppose I could hire a chemical laboratory, if I could figure out what kind of one would do that kind of work...
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      > if I could figure out what kind of one would do that kind of work Open up the phone book. I'm sure you can find one within a day. Chemists like money. Especially when it's not even a controlled drug.
    - npo9 7y ago
      > I have not the remotest idea how I would test a cancer drug for myself As someone with only a high school level of chemistry training I would check the melting temperature. Although seriously get it professionally tested. The delta between USA prices and India/China prices is so high a lab test will barely change the margins.
    - phillc73 7y ago
      The first thing to do would be look up the Scientific Discussion or Monograph as filed with the FDA for the brand name product. With the details obtained from there, you'd know what to test for. The first steps would be assay and impurity tests for the active pharmaceutical ingredients (API). If you bought tablets you'd probably want to do dissolution as well. If everything looked fine after that, I'd still be concerned about uniformity. If you just performed dissolution on half a dozen tablets, how do you know all the tablets are the same from the whole supply? Next question is then stability. What happens to the API over an extended time period? Does it deteriorate due to climate or poor storage conditions? The main issue is quality control. Even an approved generic has to file with the FDA (or equivalent of wherever you are) concerning processes, batch sizes, critical quality attributes etc.
  - nroets 7y ago
    "You can test it yourself" : If you die, just make sure to leave a bad review on Alibaba. Do your bit to prevent survivor bias.
    - rootsudo 7y ago
      I meant by a reagent test. Not consumption.
  - dao- 7y ago
    > I would say India for Drugs is not a bad idea - if you're worried it's "from" China. Then again: https://peterattiamd.com/katherineeban/ https://peterattiamd.com/katherineeban/ > The story of Ranbaxy: An Indian drug company whose business model was fraud and deceit [40:45]
    - matwood 7y ago
      Good link. On his podcast, Peter has also talked about generics vs. name brand differences. He had a chemist on who started a pharmacy selling generics where some statistically significant amount of each batch of drugs is tested for chemical verification.
- roberte3 7y ago
  Probably the best way is to use a mass-spectrometer.
  - autoexec 7y ago
    I'm guessing the people who can afford a mass spectrometer can already afford the drug (or at least better insurance)
    - sliken 7y ago
      Heh, well if the drug is $4k a month and you can get the equivalent 5 year supply for $100 that leaves quite a bit of money left over for testing. There are lab services that will run samples through a mass spec and report the results.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Hopefully they don't send you an inactive enantiomer! Or an insoluble polymorph. Realistically, a lot of cancer drugs are injectables, ramping up the risk of something going awry when you inject the powder you will have to handle.
will_pseudonym 7y ago
Interesting. They now have a policy that prohibits the sale of medication. I wonder if there are other less scrupulous competitors of Alibaba...
- sannee 7y ago
  I can still find stuff like amoxicilline, ketoconazole or paracetamol on Alibaba. Maybe the ban is only on some specific chemicals?
pvaldes 7y ago
> ordered 5lbs of the drug for $100 usd including shipping. Nothing like the sensation of dying with placebos knowing that you saved $4k dollars and you are smarter than the other guys. Can be done even cheaper: you could have obtained lots of carrot juice for $50 also. Did not worked for Jobs but maybe in your case could be different, why risk not trying?. Seriously, don't do this. Even legit chemoterapy can dissolve you from inside and I'm not talking metaphorically. There are reported cases of unexpected and massive organ destruction. Chemoterapy is poison, can kill you faster than cancer if you have a secondary hidden condition.
IAmGraydon 7y ago
And what was the name of this drug?
sannee 7y ago
Did you need to handle the customs paperwork? I find it hard to believe the customs would just ignore a bunch of strange powder coming through the mail... And even if they did believe you it was not cocaine, I would still assume they would not be happy about someone importing a prescription drug.
jayalpha 7y ago
AFAIK Drugs are not available anymore on Alibaba. You should not buy such important drugs from a dubious source. Drugs from an official Chinese Pharmacy are probably very safe. If someone sells sugar instead of antibiotics be assured that he might face the death penalty. Most raw materials are produces in China anyway, even if the medication is obtained from a western company. BTW, was the cancer medication for injection?

ihattendorf 7y ago

Honest question, how do you know you're actually getting the correct drug and that it isn't contaminated or cut with something else?

swiley 7y ago
You could send it to a chemist and ask them to do an NMR and have a pretty good idea (provided it’s just one molecule)
rootsudo 7y ago
You can test it yourself, but many times the same manufacturer in the USA is the same abroad. I would say India for Drugs is not a bad idea - if you're worried it's "from" China.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  I have not the remotest idea how I would test a cancer drug for myself to see if it was pure. I suppose I could hire a chemical laboratory, if I could figure out what kind of one would do that kind of work...
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    > if I could figure out what kind of one would do that kind of work Open up the phone book. I'm sure you can find one within a day. Chemists like money. Especially when it's not even a controlled drug.
  - npo9 7y ago
    > I have not the remotest idea how I would test a cancer drug for myself As someone with only a high school level of chemistry training I would check the melting temperature. Although seriously get it professionally tested. The delta between USA prices and India/China prices is so high a lab test will barely change the margins.
  - phillc73 7y ago
    The first thing to do would be look up the Scientific Discussion or Monograph as filed with the FDA for the brand name product. With the details obtained from there, you'd know what to test for. The first steps would be assay and impurity tests for the active pharmaceutical ingredients (API). If you bought tablets you'd probably want to do dissolution as well. If everything looked fine after that, I'd still be concerned about uniformity. If you just performed dissolution on half a dozen tablets, how do you know all the tablets are the same from the whole supply? Next question is then stability. What happens to the API over an extended time period? Does it deteriorate due to climate or poor storage conditions? The main issue is quality control. Even an approved generic has to file with the FDA (or equivalent of wherever you are) concerning processes, batch sizes, critical quality attributes etc.
- nroets 7y ago
  "You can test it yourself" : If you die, just make sure to leave a bad review on Alibaba. Do your bit to prevent survivor bias.
  - rootsudo 7y ago
    I meant by a reagent test. Not consumption.
- dao- 7y ago
  > I would say India for Drugs is not a bad idea - if you're worried it's "from" China. Then again: https://peterattiamd.com/katherineeban/ https://peterattiamd.com/katherineeban/ > The story of Ranbaxy: An Indian drug company whose business model was fraud and deceit [40:45]
  - matwood 7y ago
    Good link. On his podcast, Peter has also talked about generics vs. name brand differences. He had a chemist on who started a pharmacy selling generics where some statistically significant amount of each batch of drugs is tested for chemical verification.
roberte3 7y ago
Probably the best way is to use a mass-spectrometer.
- autoexec 7y ago
  I'm guessing the people who can afford a mass spectrometer can already afford the drug (or at least better insurance)
  - sliken 7y ago
    Heh, well if the drug is $4k a month and you can get the equivalent 5 year supply for $100 that leaves quite a bit of money left over for testing. There are lab services that will run samples through a mass spec and report the results.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Hopefully they don't send you an inactive enantiomer! Or an insoluble polymorph. Realistically, a lot of cancer drugs are injectables, ramping up the risk of something going awry when you inject the powder you will have to handle.

will_pseudonym 7y ago

Interesting. They now have a policy that prohibits the sale of medication. I wonder if there are other less scrupulous competitors of Alibaba...

sannee 7y ago
I can still find stuff like amoxicilline, ketoconazole or paracetamol on Alibaba. Maybe the ban is only on some specific chemicals?

pvaldes 7y ago

> ordered 5lbs of the drug for $100 usd including shipping. Nothing like the sensation of dying with placebos knowing that you saved $4k dollars and you are smarter than the other guys. Can be done even cheaper: you could have obtained lots of carrot juice for $50 also. Did not worked for Jobs but maybe in your case could be different, why risk not trying?. Seriously, don't do this. Even legit chemoterapy can dissolve you from inside and I'm not talking metaphorically. There are reported cases of unexpected and massive organ destruction. Chemoterapy is poison, can kill you faster than cancer if you have a secondary hidden condition.

IAmGraydon 7y ago

And what was the name of this drug?

sannee 7y ago

Did you need to handle the customs paperwork? I find it hard to believe the customs would just ignore a bunch of strange powder coming through the mail... And even if they did believe you it was not cocaine, I would still assume they would not be happy about someone importing a prescription drug.

jayalpha 7y ago

AFAIK Drugs are not available anymore on Alibaba. You should not buy such important drugs from a dubious source. Drugs from an official Chinese Pharmacy are probably very safe. If someone sells sugar instead of antibiotics be assured that he might face the death penalty. Most raw materials are produces in China anyway, even if the medication is obtained from a western company. BTW, was the cancer medication for injection?