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I think you're neglecting to think about moving people around in rural and or remote areas. Where I grew up (eastern NC) the ability to travel as-the-crow-flies

I think you're neglecting to think about moving people around in rural and or remote areas. Where I grew up (eastern NC) the ability to travel as-the-crow-flies would massively cut down on time to get places, many roads take 30-45 miles of driving to go what might be 15 miles in the air. In that kind of area, there's not the population density to support any kind of mass transit (or even really taxis) and the distances are too far for biking to be practical. Readily available electric VTOL would revolutionize rural America. Not much to worry about in terms of air congestion, either.

Robotbeat 7y ago
Indeed, Alaska has this problem and worse. The region relies heavily on seaplanes and short-take-off-and-landing aircraft for logistics. These eVTOL aircraft would be great in Alaska and especially in places without lakes. Places without a lot of flat area for landing, places like Papua New Guinea, have no good options at all right now, so these VTOL aircraft will be transformative.
- Retric 7y ago
  It’s not that difficult to learn how to fly a helicopter, you only need 20h with instructor before the first solo flight. While that’s just the beginning it shows getting the basic controls down is not the problem. Thus, these VTOL aircraft are only going to be game changers if they are vastly cheaper, which seems unlikely. The real issue is unit sales being so low. The R22 is a popular and ‘cheap’ helicopter ranking #8 in total sales, but it’s sold less than 5,000 units worldwide over 40 years. PS: Fixed wing aircraft are popular because they have a huge range of inherent advantages. VTOL sounds great, but the downsides are enormous.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    VTOL share most of those advantages of winged aircraft. The reason eVTOL may well be cheaper is that they have a lot fewer moving parts than a helicopter (and much lower vibration, plus using cheaper, lower-maintenance electric motors instead of turbine engines) and much less (and cheaper) fuel. But it'll take good designs. The Lilium one seems non-optimal compared to the Heaviside. And don't rule out eSTOL. I think we'll see more of that. Helicopters have an operating cost per hour an order of magnitude higher than a comparable payload conventional aircraft. The purchase price per payload capacity is also nearly an order of magnitude different. It's not the operator cost that determines the difference in price between helicopters and CTOL.
    - starpilot 7y ago
      It's hard to claim they're cheaper when they have a fraction of the range of gas helicopters. It's apples to oranges, the flying cars now are equivalent to electric golf carts in performance.
      - woodandsteel 7y ago
        For those cases where their range is sufficient, they are vastly cheaper. And their range is going to increase over the years as batteries improve.
    - Retric 7y ago
      Helicopters are VTOL, I don’t know what you think it means but it’s just ‘Vertical Take-Off and Landing”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTOL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTOL “This classification can include a variety of types of aircraft including fixed-wing aircraft as well as helicopters and other aircraft with powered rotors, such as cyclogyros/cyclocopters and tiltrotors.” Similarly, an electric helicopter would qualify as eVTOL. People generally aim for something more efficient in flight, but that’s a separate question.
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        You’re right. I meant VTOL with wingborne cruise, like the V-22.
  - FabHK 7y ago
    > Fixed wing aircraft are popular Even so, only about 1000 single engine piston airplanes are sold every year.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      But they last forever. For instance, there are still lots of single engine Piper Cubs (popular in Alaska for STOL capability) from the 1940s maintained, in use, and for sale: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/manufacturer/piper/model-group/cub https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/m... (Additionally, a lot of general aviation aircraft have moved to turboprop in the last few decades.)
      - FabHK 7y ago
        It's about 500 single-engine turboprops per year. You're right, they last forever, and so the market for new aircraft is tiny. Really a vicious circle: high costs lead to low volume leads to high costs.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  The economics hardly make sense for a congested city. Forget it for a remote area.
alistairSH 7y ago
If the population can't support a few car-based taxis, how is it going to support a more complicated VTOL taxi?
- fortytw2 7y ago
  I guess the article is actually about taxis specifically, but if the technology exists, they could definitely be sold as personal vehicles for travel along paths that are very long by road, but very short by air. Making rural less... rural, if that makes sense. The market is probably there if someone could pull off a 1-2 seat VTOL that had maybe a 60 mile range.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    I can't see such a vehicle being any cheaper or requiring fewer licences to operate than a helicopter. And helicopters are already available if travelling 20-30 miles in a straight line is a problem you need to fix.
    - LinuxBender 7y ago
      You may be right, but I don't foresee the pilot being allowed to control the vehicle. I imagine governments creating laws before long that would require all drone type cars to use GPS, take off and land from designated areas and would not permit manual control unless you meet some criteria.
      - gambiting 7y ago
        In which case unfortunately, again, I can only imagine it would be 100x easier to just automate a helicopter rather than make a "flying car"(whatever that means) and then automate it.
    - digikata 7y ago
      I don’t know about the legal or other regulatory logistics cost of operating a helicopter, but the physical maintenance requirements for helicopters are likely far far higher than a potential electric vtol vehicle.
dv_dt 7y ago
That’s a really interesting observation. Especially when it seems like all the automakers designs on selling subscriptions to an electric car on-demand fleet seems nonsensical for rural areas.
novok 7y ago
It's also useful for people who live in island clusters, or islands that are short hops to a mainland. Boats are slow and often not on demand.

Robotbeat 7y ago

Indeed, Alaska has this problem and worse. The region relies heavily on seaplanes and short-take-off-and-landing aircraft for logistics. These eVTOL aircraft would be great in Alaska and especially in places without lakes. Places without a lot of flat area for landing, places like Papua New Guinea, have no good options at all right now, so these VTOL aircraft will be transformative.

Retric 7y ago
It’s not that difficult to learn how to fly a helicopter, you only need 20h with instructor before the first solo flight. While that’s just the beginning it shows getting the basic controls down is not the problem. Thus, these VTOL aircraft are only going to be game changers if they are vastly cheaper, which seems unlikely. The real issue is unit sales being so low. The R22 is a popular and ‘cheap’ helicopter ranking #8 in total sales, but it’s sold less than 5,000 units worldwide over 40 years. PS: Fixed wing aircraft are popular because they have a huge range of inherent advantages. VTOL sounds great, but the downsides are enormous.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  VTOL share most of those advantages of winged aircraft. The reason eVTOL may well be cheaper is that they have a lot fewer moving parts than a helicopter (and much lower vibration, plus using cheaper, lower-maintenance electric motors instead of turbine engines) and much less (and cheaper) fuel. But it'll take good designs. The Lilium one seems non-optimal compared to the Heaviside. And don't rule out eSTOL. I think we'll see more of that. Helicopters have an operating cost per hour an order of magnitude higher than a comparable payload conventional aircraft. The purchase price per payload capacity is also nearly an order of magnitude different. It's not the operator cost that determines the difference in price between helicopters and CTOL.
  - starpilot 7y ago
    It's hard to claim they're cheaper when they have a fraction of the range of gas helicopters. It's apples to oranges, the flying cars now are equivalent to electric golf carts in performance.
    - woodandsteel 7y ago
      For those cases where their range is sufficient, they are vastly cheaper. And their range is going to increase over the years as batteries improve.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Helicopters are VTOL, I don’t know what you think it means but it’s just ‘Vertical Take-Off and Landing”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTOL https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTOL “This classification can include a variety of types of aircraft including fixed-wing aircraft as well as helicopters and other aircraft with powered rotors, such as cyclogyros/cyclocopters and tiltrotors.” Similarly, an electric helicopter would qualify as eVTOL. People generally aim for something more efficient in flight, but that’s a separate question.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      You’re right. I meant VTOL with wingborne cruise, like the V-22.
- FabHK 7y ago
  > Fixed wing aircraft are popular Even so, only about 1000 single engine piston airplanes are sold every year.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    But they last forever. For instance, there are still lots of single engine Piper Cubs (popular in Alaska for STOL capability) from the 1940s maintained, in use, and for sale: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/manufacturer/piper/model-group/cub https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/m... (Additionally, a lot of general aviation aircraft have moved to turboprop in the last few decades.)
    - FabHK 7y ago
      It's about 500 single-engine turboprops per year. You're right, they last forever, and so the market for new aircraft is tiny. Really a vicious circle: high costs lead to low volume leads to high costs.
benhurmarcel 7y ago
The economics hardly make sense for a congested city. Forget it for a remote area.

alistairSH 7y ago

If the population can't support a few car-based taxis, how is it going to support a more complicated VTOL taxi?

fortytw2 7y ago
I guess the article is actually about taxis specifically, but if the technology exists, they could definitely be sold as personal vehicles for travel along paths that are very long by road, but very short by air. Making rural less... rural, if that makes sense. The market is probably there if someone could pull off a 1-2 seat VTOL that had maybe a 60 mile range.
- gambiting 7y ago
  I can't see such a vehicle being any cheaper or requiring fewer licences to operate than a helicopter. And helicopters are already available if travelling 20-30 miles in a straight line is a problem you need to fix.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    You may be right, but I don't foresee the pilot being allowed to control the vehicle. I imagine governments creating laws before long that would require all drone type cars to use GPS, take off and land from designated areas and would not permit manual control unless you meet some criteria.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      In which case unfortunately, again, I can only imagine it would be 100x easier to just automate a helicopter rather than make a "flying car"(whatever that means) and then automate it.
  - digikata 7y ago
    I don’t know about the legal or other regulatory logistics cost of operating a helicopter, but the physical maintenance requirements for helicopters are likely far far higher than a potential electric vtol vehicle.

dv_dt 7y ago

That’s a really interesting observation. Especially when it seems like all the automakers designs on selling subscriptions to an electric car on-demand fleet seems nonsensical for rural areas.

novok 7y ago

It's also useful for people who live in island clusters, or islands that are short hops to a mainland. Boats are slow and often not on demand.