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Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned
- etaioinshrdlu 7y agoWell foie gras was a horrifying thing to learn about! This seems hard to excuse.
- sneak 7y agoI encourage you to learn more about it. It is not harmful or painful or cruel, the animals come willingly to the person who feeds them.
- inamberclad 7y agoHard for them to come anywhere with a tube down their throats, I imagine.
- simonh 7y agoThe tube is only inserted during feeding.
- computerex 7y agoThe animals are literally force fed with a tube. The animal's liver swells to many times its normal size. I am not sure what you are talking about. There is a reason why this practice is controversial to begin with. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
- mikekchar 7y agoI have not actually seen it (and I'm not the OP), but I have been told by French farmers that geese do willingly and even eagerly run up to get the tube inserted so that they can have the food force fed into their gullet. At least with the few farmers I've talked to about this, the tube was not inserted permanently (these were very small operations). Having never actually seen it, I don't have any understanding of the discomfort the animals face or the extent to which these reports are true. But neither do I have reliable information that it is not true. Disclaimer: I don't eat foie gras and don't advocate it either.
- boudin 7y agoThe actual fact that geese can eat that much and double size (or more) is natural and necessary for their migration. It's possible to make foie gras by just letting the goose eating itself. Acording to my parents when they were living on farms when young, that's the way they were doing it. Just banning the practice of force feeding would make more sense. You can find a few things online about those alternative way https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=487088946 https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=487088946
- calf 7y agoI've read about the acorn foie guy, and wasn't sure how legit the story was. If foie gras can be made by having free range geese and plentiful food for them, that would make foie production even more of a luxury item, but at least that would render the gavage controversy no a longer critical issue.
- eurg 7y agoAs linked somewhere else, but for video affine people, and directly relevant, see this old Ted talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_...
- eurg 7y agoBelow someone quoted this: "it will be assumed that all foie gras came from duck or geese that have been force-fed unless “documentary” evidence is provided to the contrary." So, non-force-feed remains legal.
- boudin 7y agoI had missed that, thanks!
- ryanlol 7y ago>The animals are literally force fed with a tube You don't have to buy the force fed kind though.
- jlengrand 7y agoThis is a by-product of battery breeding, and not the only way to make foie gras. Geese will feed too much anyways at certain times of the year in their own will. Same as pigs that get removed from their mothers and live in cages barely sized for them. It doesn't have to be that way. Buying responsibly is a first step, and forbidding torturous practises would be another one. Not killing animals at all is yet another discussion.
- ivanhoe 7y agoThat's only one way to do it, probably the most efficient one for mass farming. In my country there is a similar delicacy, but instead of tube traditionally geese were fed by hand. Farmers would prepare balls of food, and then those balls were pushed into the geese's beak and down the throat by hand, until it's totally full. This is more time consuming than using a funnel and a tube to just pour the food.
- reitzensteinm 7y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy#/media/File%3AMulard_duck_being_force_fed_corn_in_order_to_fatten_its_liver_for_foie_gras_production.jpg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy#/media...
- asjw 7y agoOh come on! I never ate foie gras and I hate french cuisine, but I hate more people believing anything they read on the internet without having any prior knowledge of the topic. Foie gras is much less horrifying than the existence of Google and Facebook, the amount of plastic in the oceans or the pile of toxic waste produced by disposable tech. It's just a fancy traditional regional food that's not even mass produced.
- sneak 7y ago> Under the law, it will be assumed that all foie gras came from duck or geese that have been force-fed unless “documentary” evidence is provided to the contrary. Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the general trend in NYC these days.
- pentae 7y agoOr maybe lawmakers are just tired of seeing loopholes abused by unscrupulous people. It's like banning shark fin, it just gets taken off the menu but can be ordered in mandarin.
- donw 7y agoThat may not be the best analogy. If shark fin is illegal, then being able to order it in Mandarin isn't a "loophole" -- it doesn't magically become legal on a technicality. It's just a means of avoiding enforcement of the law, by making the illicit activity less obvious.
- pentae 7y agoAgreed it was worded poorly.. I didn't mean that as an analogy of "loophole" but the kind of unscrupulous stuff happening in the food industry
- asjw 7y agoBut it's an inversion of innocent until proven guilty nonetheless. People will find loopholes anyway. It's not even hard in this case.
- donw 7y agoI don't think it is entirely unfair that restaurants be required to prove origin when challenged, especially for commonly counterfeited ingredients. Let's say that I go to a restaurant that claims they only use true cinnamon and Kashmir saffron to flavor a cinnamon roll, which they sell at a premium because of the high-quality ingredients. When challenged, that restaurant needs to be able to show proof that they are delivering as advertised. If it turns out that they were instead using artificial flavors and colors, then they are guilty of fraud, and the punishment should be scaled to the difficulty of detecting infraction. Similarly, if a restaurant claims to be selling humanely-sourced shark fin (not even sure how that works, but let's roll with it), and can't substantiate that claim, then there does need to be some kind of punishment for deceiving their customers.
- Ecco 7y agoQuelle excellente nouvelle ! Ça en laissera plus pour nous :-D
- simonblack 7y agoI came here to say the same thing. But it reads much better in the original French.
- cm2187 7y agoI can’t help thinking that this has little to do with foie gras, but is part of wider push by vegetarians to ban meat eating. You could argue that an animal had a bad time for any meat.
- jeswin 7y ago> You could argue that an animal had a bad time for any meat. One could certainly make a case for banning animal slaughter, but I suppose it would be practical only after we have good meat substitutes. But in the meantime we could perhaps ban wanton cruelty such as Foie Gras. I'll add veal too to the list now.
- dvdbloc 7y agoI’m not taking a stance on either side here but how can you make this case when animals are killing other animals all the time for food? Or is the case that humans are “above animals” in that we don’t slaughter anything?
- seanwilson 7y ago> I’m not taking a stance on either side here but how can you make this case when animals are killing other animals all the time for food? We're not in a survival situation, we have options that don't involve killing animals whereas animals do not, and we don't base our moral choices on what animals do to each other.
- jeswin 7y agoI was surprised to learn that India is the only country[1] to ban the production and import of Foie Gras. Very few people would even know about the dish in India. But anyway, I hope this torturous practice comes to an end worldwide. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy
- CaptainZapp 7y agoDo you eat meat at all? If so, how were the animals raised, slaughtered and processed? This ban seems rather hypocritical to me given the atrocities happening in mass meat production. While there are absolutely terrible things happening in Foie Gras production (I would never, ever buy any products from Hungary, as a for example) the really good stuff is raised quite humanely.[1] To me this just looks like an attempt for quick political gain without any advantage to any factory raised animal (which, for the record, I regard as one of our biggest moral failings as humans). [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/11/ethical-foie-gras-no-force-feeding-necessary/66261/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/11/ethical-f...
- doorhurdle 7y agoAmerica: land of the free, ha ha!
- brillas 7y agoI support this, but I’m not sure about its moral groundwork. I’ve never tried foie gras, and after reading about it I’m increasingly sure I never will. The fact that I find little pleasure in food delicacies and am thus not affected in the slightest by this ban makes it hard to sympathize with those who resist it; It’s just wasteful to me, after all. But someone could just as easily say that about my leather jackets and my fast fashion, or my snazzy tech purchases or all those luxuries I thoroughly enjoy. It feels unfair to decide this by a vote of people who are likely not affected, who don’t reap its value. But how, then, do we choose what’s right and what’s not?
- LessDmesg 7y agoIf there's something I'm glad to see banned, it's fua gra. Disgusting, cruel, and belongs to the dust bin of history.
- anovikov 7y agoI enjoy foie gras and i happily live in a place where it's unlikely to be banned in my lifetime. No nation which has only recently turned to service economy from agriculture-driven economy and most population grew in the countryside, will do it, because they know and readily accept that all agriculture is the torture of animals or it just doesn't pay for itself. Also, it's just tasty.
- calf 7y agoIf I were an investor I would ask Hudson Valley and the other specialty farms to look into GMO and lab-grown foie. Maybe liver is easier to do than muscle tissue. Foie tastes like magical butter and it would be wonderful if there was a more ethical way to have it.
- gus_massa 7y agoIt is posible to transplant part of the liver from a person to another, and both will regrow a complete liver. So this may work but IANAMD. More info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_transplantation#Living_donor_transplantation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_transplantation#Living_d...
- eurg 7y agoThere is: https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_... He talks about a farmer who is not force feeding the animals, but instead prepares the grassland such that those animals voluntarily eat themselves into a fat liver. Taste seems to be superb, for those who eat animals for fun.
- asjw 7y agoMeanwhile you can force feed beef and get expensive steaks at any of the fancy NY steak house downtown
- jillesvangurp 7y agoNice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposite of the dystopian life of a chicken bred in cage that needs antibiotics just to survive their miserable life long enough to be slaughtered. Banning Kentucky fried chicken or other fast food chains would be considered ludicrous. So, is this. I eat meat and chicken but I'm well aware where it came from. I've had foie gras a couple of times. Not crazy about it but I appreciate it.
- jamil7 7y agoI can't help feeling a similar way, a small group of wealthy people eating an obscure, traditional food is an easier target and makes for a much better story than addressing the elephant in the room that is mainstream factory farming.
- realusername 7y agoIt's very far from a "luxury" or "wealthy" item in France, it's something most families will have on their table at Christmas. I don't know where this false luxury stereotype comes from.
- jamil7 7y agoRight, well I guess I meant in the context of french restaurants in NYC.
- benhurmarcel 7y agoThat's true but then even in France it's not something cheap. It's exceptional and as you said, basically something you have once or twice a year.
- saiya-jin 7y agoWell its a rather expensive item in the shops. Affordable still, but paying 15-30 euros for a small box brings it into affordable luxury category IMHO. Its more expensive than exquisite french/italian cheeses with black truffles for example. Same would go for ie Moet champagne, one can afford it but you definitely notice the price.
- ivanhoe 7y agoWeird that there seems to be much more debate in US about force feeding geese than force-feeding prisoners. Not that I support either of the practices.
- fxj 7y agoIn germany there is a labelling system called "Animal Welfare Labelling" where consumers can choose what they buy. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierwohllabel https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tierwohllabel For eggs this is even mandatory: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierkennzeichnung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierkennzeichnung
- gumby 7y agoDespite what the article says, the California foo GRAS ban was blocked by the courts on federal grounds and foi gras is widely available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law
- gumby 7y agoSometimes I really hate spell correcting: apologies for "foi gras" becoming "foo GRAS"