8 ms·

What is described in the article doesn't fit the definition of panic. I'm torn because maybe I wouldn't have read the article without the needless anthropomorp

by kris-s 7y ago

What is described in the article doesn't fit the definition of panic. I'm torn because maybe I wouldn't have read the article without the needless anthropomorphization. Plants are awesome and interesting to me because they're so planty and not animaly.

las_balas_tres 7y ago
I agree. The word "panic" to me implies a certain mental state. Something plants lack.
- antonvs 7y ago
  ...assuming panpsychism is not true.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Given plants utilize electrical signals I don’t see how you could argue they don’t have “mental states”?
  - las_balas_tres 7y ago
    CPU's and other electronic devices utilize electrical signals. Do you think they have mental states ?
dickeytk 7y ago
A defense mechanism that is triggered by a hormone? Doesn't seem terribly far off
- droithomme 7y ago
  He makes an interesting point. Some plants have a response to rain triggered by a hormone. To ascribe the term panic to it though might possibly be mischaracterizing the response because of the tendency to anthropomorphize.
  - danharaj 7y ago
    On the other hand, we have many primal and ancient behaviors that can be contextualized on evolutionary timescales so that it can be reasonably said that, yea, a lot of our behaviors have common heritage with even plants.
    - samvher 7y ago
      Except our last common ancestor with plants was single celled so we’re unlikely to share many multicellular behaviors. Commonalities will be sub-cellular.
      - danharaj 7y ago
        Unicellular life has stress responses too.
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    Well we don't really have words to describe plant behavior. I agree, we can't view plants through an animalian lense, but at the same time we have to use the words we have to discuss them. I think it's fair to say plant "panic" is different than animal "panic" but from what I read, panic seems to be the closest analogue.
    - phkahler 7y ago
      Is our immune response to a pathogen considered panic? I think not.
      - jadell 7y ago
        A chemical reaction that sets of a string of defensive protection reactions and behaviors? Sounds quite like panic to me. It's basically "fight or flight" for plants except plants can't do the "flight" part.
    - narag 7y ago
      Panic is not the same as fear. Panic (insert here mythological reference to god Pan) is a kind of fear that causes uncontrolled, irrational and often counterproductive behaviour. Is that the case?
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  Except "panic" means an ultimately self destructive overreaction. At least in my personal dictionary.
  - quixoticelixer- 7y ago
    Not all of us use your personal dictionary.
    - mikekchar 7y ago
      Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? I mean it is often an understandable response, but I have to agree that my understanding of the term is that is a response to being overwhelmed and responding haphazardly as a result. Is that an accurate description of what's happening? The actual article is a bit light to really understand. I wonder if it's the "chain reaction" across individual trees that is what they are describing as "panic".
      - undreren 7y ago
        Just because it is a hard to name a concrete situation, where panic is a good survival strategy for the individual, it can not be concluded that nature is not ripe with situations, where panic saves the flock. Also, it would seem that the panic response is evolved for the benefit of the flock, not the individual, as it spreads rapidly; if one person panics, more will follow suit.
      - hoseja 7y ago
        Say, when you are being chased by a lion.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? Yes. When something is panic inducing. Note that the bad connotations of panic are for not panic worthy situations (e.g. don't panic when you just lost your wallet, etc). But when chased by a predator, a panic response is a good, and evolutionary created, way, to get from 0-60 mph adrenaline and speed wise... A gazelle doesn't sit still and weigh the situation calmly. It panics and starts to run for its life...
- dmurray 7y ago
  Almost every biological reaction is triggered or mediated by a hormone. I'd expect "panic" to mean a reaction that makes the plant more alert or able to act faster.
dang 7y ago
Ok, we'll give you some scare quotes to get some ironic detachment in the title above.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sacrificedcapon 7y ago
Perhaps that's why "panic" is in quotes. Also keep in mind some believe that a lot of "animalyness" is also "plantyness". http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-and-smell-and-respond http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-... https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/6759 https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/6759
- rapnie 7y ago
  The quotes were added later by dang, one of the moderators of HN.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Give The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben a read and you might have to blur the border between the two. Highly recommended though - it's a marvellous read and very enlightening. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28256439-the-hidden-life-of-trees https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28256439-the-hidden-life...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
erikpukinskis 7y ago
Is there a term for the opposite of anthropomorphization? I.e. an unwillingness to acknowledge equivalencies between humans and other species due to a presumption of “human exceptionalism”?

by kris-s 7y ago

las_balas_tres 7y ago

I agree. The word "panic" to me implies a certain mental state. Something plants lack.

antonvs 7y ago
...assuming panpsychism is not true.
erikpukinskis 7y ago
Given plants utilize electrical signals I don’t see how you could argue they don’t have “mental states”?
- las_balas_tres 7y ago
  CPU's and other electronic devices utilize electrical signals. Do you think they have mental states ?

dickeytk 7y ago

A defense mechanism that is triggered by a hormone? Doesn't seem terribly far off

droithomme 7y ago
He makes an interesting point. Some plants have a response to rain triggered by a hormone. To ascribe the term panic to it though might possibly be mischaracterizing the response because of the tendency to anthropomorphize.
- danharaj 7y ago
  On the other hand, we have many primal and ancient behaviors that can be contextualized on evolutionary timescales so that it can be reasonably said that, yea, a lot of our behaviors have common heritage with even plants.
  - samvher 7y ago
    Except our last common ancestor with plants was single celled so we’re unlikely to share many multicellular behaviors. Commonalities will be sub-cellular.
    - danharaj 7y ago
      Unicellular life has stress responses too.
- nkrisc 7y ago
  Well we don't really have words to describe plant behavior. I agree, we can't view plants through an animalian lense, but at the same time we have to use the words we have to discuss them. I think it's fair to say plant "panic" is different than animal "panic" but from what I read, panic seems to be the closest analogue.
  - phkahler 7y ago
    Is our immune response to a pathogen considered panic? I think not.
    - jadell 7y ago
      A chemical reaction that sets of a string of defensive protection reactions and behaviors? Sounds quite like panic to me. It's basically "fight or flight" for plants except plants can't do the "flight" part.
  - narag 7y ago
    Panic is not the same as fear. Panic (insert here mythological reference to god Pan) is a kind of fear that causes uncontrolled, irrational and often counterproductive behaviour. Is that the case?
BurningFrog 7y ago
Except "panic" means an ultimately self destructive overreaction. At least in my personal dictionary.
- quixoticelixer- 7y ago
  Not all of us use your personal dictionary.
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? I mean it is often an understandable response, but I have to agree that my understanding of the term is that is a response to being overwhelmed and responding haphazardly as a result. Is that an accurate description of what's happening? The actual article is a bit light to really understand. I wonder if it's the "chain reaction" across individual trees that is what they are describing as "panic".
    - undreren 7y ago
      Just because it is a hard to name a concrete situation, where panic is a good survival strategy for the individual, it can not be concluded that nature is not ripe with situations, where panic saves the flock. Also, it would seem that the panic response is evolved for the benefit of the flock, not the individual, as it spreads rapidly; if one person panics, more will follow suit.
    - hoseja 7y ago
      Say, when you are being chased by a lion.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? Yes. When something is panic inducing. Note that the bad connotations of panic are for not panic worthy situations (e.g. don't panic when you just lost your wallet, etc). But when chased by a predator, a panic response is a good, and evolutionary created, way, to get from 0-60 mph adrenaline and speed wise... A gazelle doesn't sit still and weigh the situation calmly. It panics and starts to run for its life...
dmurray 7y ago
Almost every biological reaction is triggered or mediated by a hormone. I'd expect "panic" to mean a reaction that makes the plant more alert or able to act faster.

dang 7y ago

Ok, we'll give you some scare quotes to get some ironic detachment in the title above.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

sacrificedcapon 7y ago

Perhaps that's why "panic" is in quotes. Also keep in mind some believe that a lot of "animalyness" is also "plantyness". http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-and-smell-and-respond http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-... https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/6759 https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/6759

rapnie 7y ago
The quotes were added later by dang, one of the moderators of HN.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Give The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben a read and you might have to blur the border between the two. Highly recommended though - it's a marvellous read and very enlightening. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28256439-the-hidden-life-of-trees https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28256439-the-hidden-life...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

erikpukinskis 7y ago

Is there a term for the opposite of anthropomorphization? I.e. an unwillingness to acknowledge equivalencies between humans and other species due to a presumption of “human exceptionalism”?