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Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

avn2109 7y ago
The future's already here, it's just not evenly distributed. Plenty of people probably already "got to the bottom of this." But you and I haven't dug deep enough to find it.
- moltensodium 7y ago
  That's a big part of the problem right? We've stratified information access such that special elite groups get to decide what the lowly commoners are allowed to know. We know what's best for them. In theory this would be fine if we had a rigorous and well tested process for managing dangerous information, but the whole classification system has just been subverted to just hide whatever embarrasses the rich and powerful. It's an illegitimate farce.
cc81 7y ago
What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?
- mistermann 7y ago
  > If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Considering the circumstances, if you received information from Epstein, what would you do with it? Even if you were brave enough to risk your life in the service of justice, what authority would you even send it to?
  - camjohnson26 7y ago
    Newspaper?
  - larrywright 7y ago
    Honestly, Glenn Greenwald would probably be where I’d turn to. I’d trust him as a journalist, for sure. There aren’t a ton of them who’ve publicly demonstrated how they handle something of this importance (Woodward and Bernstein are the only other two I can come up with off the top of my head).
    - harry8 7y ago
      Assange - for which I will get hate. He will publish, in full at considerable personal cost. I don't think there are any credible accusations about him doing anything else, ever. You can still hate him for whatever reasons you have and expect him to do just that. Have you seen Greenwalds thoughts on Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. I'm not sure they should still be on that list... Maybe, but there's some doubt. More about them than say Assange, for this purpose which is pretty weird and unexpected to think about. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/28/bob-woodward-obama-military-sequester https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/28/bob-wo... https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/11/bob-woodward-slams-greenwald-gellman-178103 https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/11/bob-woodward-sl... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvrSeiG5mJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvrSeiG5mJQ
      - harry8 7y ago
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/10/manning-prosecution-press-freedom-woodward https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/10/mannin... Wherin Greenwald describes Woodward as follows: "Bob Woodward is a servant-journalist for US government officials." That's not pulling punches. Is it fair?
        spiralx 7y ago
        I mean I could make the claim "Glenn Greenwald is a servant-journalist for Russian government officials." with at least as much evidence: https://arcdigital.media/why-are-internet-radicals-helping-putins-russia-6ff2978b172e https://arcdigital.media/why-are-internet-radicals-helping-p... https://www.towleroad.com/2019/05/glenn-greenwald-russia/ https://www.towleroad.com/2019/05/glenn-greenwald-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m... Is it fair? I mean calling a journalist an agent of the deep state for publishing leaks given to them is quite a leap... especially given that Greenwald is famous in large part for the same.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ethelward 7y ago
  Let's take it the other way around and assume it was a murder. > would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Not being able to do that while in high-security confinment. > And what stops the victims of naming names now? Not wanting to die. > what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying? The only way to be sure he would not talk is to definitely prevent him from talking. Now I'm not saying the murder hypothesis is the correct one, but it still holds water IMHO.
  - aphextim 7y ago
    It also sends a clear message to anyone who may know information to keep their mouth shut. It basically says, "Yeah you can be put on 24/7 security, in a prison cell watched by rotating armed guards and we will still find a way to disable the cameras, get the guards away from you cell, and murder you."
    - jermaustin1 7y ago
      Were cameras disabled???
      - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
        Yes, both cameras that watched the cell and hallway outside it had "technical difficulties" and there was no recoverable footage around the time of Epstein's death.
        topmonk 7y ago
        The camera showing the hallway outside his cell was working, and showed no one leaving or entering during the time period of his death.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Do you have a source for that, because I've only ever heard that the camera outside his cell did not provide usable footage.
- joe_the_user 7y ago
  I don't have information that would prove Epstein's death wasn't suicide. Given he was on suicide watch earlier, that doesn't matter much to the situation of those with power acting to conveniently dispose of him. The Epstein case could still be pursued. But when the government disposes of the star witness, the average person quite reasonably tends to doubt the state is going to give satisfaction, plus the media-driving focus of attention is gone.
- romwell 7y ago
  >What if it just was a suicide? It makes absolutely no difference. The only thing they had to do was to keep him alive, and given his health, it was not a hard thing to do. If there were no benefactors, it would've been criminal incompetence. As it stands, incompetence is as likely as if he got killed by an anvil falling from the sky. To paraphrase: it's as if I gave you a new iPhone to keep for a day, and you returned empty-handed and told me someone stole it from you... because you left it on the edge of the platform at a NYC subway station for the night and (surprise!) it wasn't there in the morning! In this scenario, it makes no difference whether your friend took it, someone else took it, or it got knocked onto the tracks by accident. What matters is that you ensured that I don't have my phone back. And that's what happened in the Epstein case. His keepers facilitated his death. The exact manner is irrelevant.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    Funny to see this comment getting downvoted when it really gets to the heart of the issue: keeping Epstein alive was crucial to the cause of justice, everyone knew this and that many powerful people had a huge stake in having him silenced, so even if it was suicide his death was willfully facilitated.
- RachelF 7y ago
  >And what stops the victims of naming names now? They might be murdered. The model who exposed Silvio Berlusconi's rape of her and the "bunga-banga" parties was poisoned with polonium. https://apnews.com/e7dd3bb17f3e41e297c0ee401d5eae48 https://apnews.com/e7dd3bb17f3e41e297c0ee401d5eae48
- TheOperator 7y ago
  It's not impossible people are just pointing out it was implausible that the highest profile prisoner in the damn prison was the first person to successfully kill themselves in years and years. A guard got blackmailed or something.
mistermann 7y ago
> Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures. I see very little sign of this. On the contrary, basically anywhere I look I see nothing but rabid enthusiasm for the latest Russia boogeyman story, and utter disdain for any idea that things may not be quite as we're told by the government and media. I suspect the only reason there happens to be any interest in this story is that it involves children. Considering how relatively carefree the public seems to be on this story, when usually any story involving children and sex results in widespread hysteria and disgust, I think whoever is behind the memory holing of this story is probably feeling pretty comfortable with their ability to control people's perception of reality.
eesmith 7y ago
Martin Luther King Jr. was almost certainly more important. He was jailed many times, and wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail from one.
- droithomme 7y ago
  > wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail And it's a great letter. Of interest, it's extremely similar to Civil Disobedience which is a letter Thoreau wrote from jail, and of which King possessed a copy of at the time he wrote his own letter. Related, Gandi carried a copy of Civil Disobedience with him at all times. Thoreau's rejection of US taxing authority was far more influential than most realize, leading to cascading revolutions throughout the 20th century.
tmn 7y ago
Interesting how Oswald was murdered. And then the murderer conveniently died of cancer soon after. Also interesting how that plot has been made out to be this big mystery with every which way being considered, except for an internal job. The patterns are getting pretty clear now
- topmonk 7y ago
  Every which way is considered because that's what humans do. Everyone wants to be the guy who came up with an original theory to show how clever they are. Your vague “internal job” accusation is no exception to this.
  - tmn 7y ago
    you're correct
kiliantics 7y ago
There are already lots of people investigating this independently and a lot of information has been uncovered. I can recommend a podcast that has really good research and is also a very entertaining listen: https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod Plenty of crackpot theories abound of course, but the hosts here try to piece things together that are based in fact to get a more plausible understanding of the course of events.
catalogia 7y ago
> "If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time." If the example of Lee Harvey Oswald is anything to go by, your optimism might be misplaced..

avn2109 7y ago

The future's already here, it's just not evenly distributed. Plenty of people probably already "got to the bottom of this." But you and I haven't dug deep enough to find it.

moltensodium 7y ago
That's a big part of the problem right? We've stratified information access such that special elite groups get to decide what the lowly commoners are allowed to know. We know what's best for them. In theory this would be fine if we had a rigorous and well tested process for managing dangerous information, but the whole classification system has just been subverted to just hide whatever embarrasses the rich and powerful. It's an illegitimate farce.

cc81 7y ago

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

mistermann 7y ago
> If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Considering the circumstances, if you received information from Epstein, what would you do with it? Even if you were brave enough to risk your life in the service of justice, what authority would you even send it to?
- camjohnson26 7y ago
  Newspaper?
- larrywright 7y ago
  Honestly, Glenn Greenwald would probably be where I’d turn to. I’d trust him as a journalist, for sure. There aren’t a ton of them who’ve publicly demonstrated how they handle something of this importance (Woodward and Bernstein are the only other two I can come up with off the top of my head).
  - harry8 7y ago
    Assange - for which I will get hate. He will publish, in full at considerable personal cost. I don't think there are any credible accusations about him doing anything else, ever. You can still hate him for whatever reasons you have and expect him to do just that. Have you seen Greenwalds thoughts on Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. I'm not sure they should still be on that list... Maybe, but there's some doubt. More about them than say Assange, for this purpose which is pretty weird and unexpected to think about. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/28/bob-woodward-obama-military-sequester https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/28/bob-wo... https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/11/bob-woodward-slams-greenwald-gellman-178103 https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/11/bob-woodward-sl... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvrSeiG5mJQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvrSeiG5mJQ
    - harry8 7y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/10/manning-prosecution-press-freedom-woodward https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/10/mannin... Wherin Greenwald describes Woodward as follows: "Bob Woodward is a servant-journalist for US government officials." That's not pulling punches. Is it fair?
      - spiralx 7y ago
        I mean I could make the claim "Glenn Greenwald is a servant-journalist for Russian government officials." with at least as much evidence: https://arcdigital.media/why-are-internet-radicals-helping-putins-russia-6ff2978b172e https://arcdigital.media/why-are-internet-radicals-helping-p... https://www.towleroad.com/2019/05/glenn-greenwald-russia/ https://www.towleroad.com/2019/05/glenn-greenwald-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/ https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-m... Is it fair? I mean calling a journalist an agent of the deep state for publishing leaks given to them is quite a leap... especially given that Greenwald is famous in large part for the same.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ethelward 7y ago
Let's take it the other way around and assume it was a murder. > would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Not being able to do that while in high-security confinment. > And what stops the victims of naming names now? Not wanting to die. > what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying? The only way to be sure he would not talk is to definitely prevent him from talking. Now I'm not saying the murder hypothesis is the correct one, but it still holds water IMHO.
- aphextim 7y ago
  It also sends a clear message to anyone who may know information to keep their mouth shut. It basically says, "Yeah you can be put on 24/7 security, in a prison cell watched by rotating armed guards and we will still find a way to disable the cameras, get the guards away from you cell, and murder you."
  - jermaustin1 7y ago
    Were cameras disabled???
    - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
      Yes, both cameras that watched the cell and hallway outside it had "technical difficulties" and there was no recoverable footage around the time of Epstein's death.
      - topmonk 7y ago
        The camera showing the hallway outside his cell was working, and showed no one leaving or entering during the time period of his death.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Do you have a source for that, because I've only ever heard that the camera outside his cell did not provide usable footage.
joe_the_user 7y ago
I don't have information that would prove Epstein's death wasn't suicide. Given he was on suicide watch earlier, that doesn't matter much to the situation of those with power acting to conveniently dispose of him. The Epstein case could still be pursued. But when the government disposes of the star witness, the average person quite reasonably tends to doubt the state is going to give satisfaction, plus the media-driving focus of attention is gone.
romwell 7y ago
>What if it just was a suicide? It makes absolutely no difference. The only thing they had to do was to keep him alive, and given his health, it was not a hard thing to do. If there were no benefactors, it would've been criminal incompetence. As it stands, incompetence is as likely as if he got killed by an anvil falling from the sky. To paraphrase: it's as if I gave you a new iPhone to keep for a day, and you returned empty-handed and told me someone stole it from you... because you left it on the edge of the platform at a NYC subway station for the night and (surprise!) it wasn't there in the morning! In this scenario, it makes no difference whether your friend took it, someone else took it, or it got knocked onto the tracks by accident. What matters is that you ensured that I don't have my phone back. And that's what happened in the Epstein case. His keepers facilitated his death. The exact manner is irrelevant.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Funny to see this comment getting downvoted when it really gets to the heart of the issue: keeping Epstein alive was crucial to the cause of justice, everyone knew this and that many powerful people had a huge stake in having him silenced, so even if it was suicide his death was willfully facilitated.
RachelF 7y ago
>And what stops the victims of naming names now? They might be murdered. The model who exposed Silvio Berlusconi's rape of her and the "bunga-banga" parties was poisoned with polonium. https://apnews.com/e7dd3bb17f3e41e297c0ee401d5eae48 https://apnews.com/e7dd3bb17f3e41e297c0ee401d5eae48
TheOperator 7y ago
It's not impossible people are just pointing out it was implausible that the highest profile prisoner in the damn prison was the first person to successfully kill themselves in years and years. A guard got blackmailed or something.

mistermann 7y ago

> Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures. I see very little sign of this. On the contrary, basically anywhere I look I see nothing but rabid enthusiasm for the latest Russia boogeyman story, and utter disdain for any idea that things may not be quite as we're told by the government and media. I suspect the only reason there happens to be any interest in this story is that it involves children. Considering how relatively carefree the public seems to be on this story, when usually any story involving children and sex results in widespread hysteria and disgust, I think whoever is behind the memory holing of this story is probably feeling pretty comfortable with their ability to control people's perception of reality.

eesmith 7y ago

Martin Luther King Jr. was almost certainly more important. He was jailed many times, and wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail from one.

droithomme 7y ago
> wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail And it's a great letter. Of interest, it's extremely similar to Civil Disobedience which is a letter Thoreau wrote from jail, and of which King possessed a copy of at the time he wrote his own letter. Related, Gandi carried a copy of Civil Disobedience with him at all times. Thoreau's rejection of US taxing authority was far more influential than most realize, leading to cascading revolutions throughout the 20th century.

tmn 7y ago

Interesting how Oswald was murdered. And then the murderer conveniently died of cancer soon after. Also interesting how that plot has been made out to be this big mystery with every which way being considered, except for an internal job. The patterns are getting pretty clear now

topmonk 7y ago
Every which way is considered because that's what humans do. Everyone wants to be the guy who came up with an original theory to show how clever they are. Your vague “internal job” accusation is no exception to this.
- tmn 7y ago
  you're correct

kiliantics 7y ago

There are already lots of people investigating this independently and a lot of information has been uncovered. I can recommend a podcast that has really good research and is also a very entertaining listen: https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod Plenty of crackpot theories abound of course, but the hosts here try to piece things together that are based in fact to get a more plausible understanding of the course of events.

catalogia 7y ago

> "If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time." If the example of Lee Harvey Oswald is anything to go by, your optimism might be misplaced..