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I am a fully remote worker nowhere near my "office", which is simply where our company is technically HQd. I have never met my boss or any of my coworkers in p

I am a fully remote worker nowhere near my "office", which is simply where our company is technically HQd. I have never met my boss or any of my coworkers in person. I do highly technical work, on a team that only hires very senior developers who have prior remote work experience. And I can say, it is NOT for everyone. If you do not have a life out of work, if you live alone, if you do not have a good network of real friends and/or family, or what you would consider an area "home", that's a problem. My problem? I have almost all of those issues at the moment. I do have a work/life balance, but I don't do much with the "life" part. My close friends have scattered as they got older, had kids, moved around to different states for work, and I didn't put effort into finding new ones. I can live wherever I want, but I don't know where I want to live! I can even move to Europe as I am a dual US/Irish citizen, but I don't know where I would want to go in Europe! I have lived in so many states in my life already, I don't have a "home" really, so that's an issue also. It seems great, but it comes with drawbacks. I'm working on them, while working on work.

WhiteSage 7y ago
Choose some hobbies and find some local community supporting them. Engage in lessons around them, or offer lessons yourself. It doesn't matter where, but do not wait for things to happen, make them happen.
- shostack 7y ago
  I'd love to see more around helping people choose hobbies. My problem is finding ones I can sink my teeth into and be passionate about. But coming across those is finding a needle in a haystack.
- totalperspectiv 7y ago
  While not always considered a hobby, I think social groups are forming around group exercise more often now. It's healthy, you get a little shared suffering in, and you meet a whole cross section of your community you may not meet otherwise.
barrkel 7y ago
I think you're conflating the migrant issue with the remote worker issue. Migrants have most of the issues you talk about; they're not close to their family networks, don't particularly feel that their current location is home, and where they came from certainly isn't home either. I did remote work from my home town for a few years, for a US company. The biggest issues for me were not being plugged in to the internal politics of the company - water-cooler conversations and occasional chats after a few drinks don't happen; and not developing a network of local engineers who moved on to other companies, somewhat limiting my career options. I've since moved out of my home country, and work in the office. I have a different set of problems also in common with what you list, specific to migration.
- tjoff 7y ago
  It's really common, migrant or not. Just because you have family around doesn't mean you see them every week. This becomes a huge problem if you don't get any social contact at work, even if you don't thrive in that environment I'd say that it is a necessity for the vast majority of people. Even for introverts that thrive alone.
- mantoto 7y ago
  Could be a bigger problem for migrants but doesn't has to be. I know enough people without any family left or only one person left with relatives without a bond.
kirstenbirgit 7y ago
I've been traveling a lot lately to figure out whether I'd want to move. Currently in Denmark which is great in all sorts of ways except the weather. I really hope I can move to South Europe at some point. Unfortunately I don't work remote, but if I did, I'd just cancel my apartment lease, put my things in storage and travel around the world and live out of hotels for a year to find out what I want.
- eyko 7y ago
  I started remote-working in 2016 and, for the first year, I pretty much did what you're saying. After moving around, I settled back in London (I'm not originally from the UK) for its professional environment. Working remotely makes it difficult to maintain professional network, but that gets easier if you live in a busy city -- frequent events and opportunities to network, but more importantly, a higher density of people working in your field. I still spend quite a bit of time outside of the UK (especially in the winter months), but as a "home" or HQ, I'll still pick the busier city. It's also not that bad when you don't need to commute and you find a neighbourhood with enough of a community culture. I really don't get as stressed as I used to be when I had to take the tube every weekday.
- greggman2 7y ago
  I tried this but it didn't work for me. was very lonely. travel gets old quick for me. The 7th church and 14th museum is just not that interesting. Traveling once in a while works better for me. I also didn't find out what I want. Everyone is different so I hope it works for you.
yepthatsreality 7y ago
You gotta “make” home. You don’t feel it out somewhere.
dingo_bat 7y ago
Seems like all your problems can get solved by getting married to someone you love.
ericmcer 7y ago
The ideal remote work situation to me would revolve around the ability to travel, want to go to Hawaii for two weeks? No big deal. People who talk about using a remote job to move to X city seem a bit detached from reality in my opinion.
- kayoone 7y ago
  Working while traveling is not for everyone though. Remote can mean many different things.
- blahblahthrow 7y ago
  As someone who has this flexibility, it's expensive and not that fun to go work in a hotel in a strange city for a couple weeks. I'd rather have a week off to ignore work and immerse myself
- eternalny1 7y ago
  I've done this, and it isn't great. It's not quite the "vacation" type experience you'd think it is. You still have to do work. So yes, you can fly to Hawaii for two weeks, pay for flights, hotel bills, meals, none of which are reimbursed because these are not corporate expenses we're talking about. And then you stay in the hotel or somewhere else plugged in for a long time to do the actual work they are paying you for. And then maybe go do something in Hawaii for a few hours.
  - katbyte 7y ago
    shrug each to their own, i really enjoy going to another city and grabbing an airbnb for a couple weeks. Work at coffee shops overlooking the ocean, grab lunch somewhere, explore some sites, checkout hawaii, then get some work done in the evening. It's definitely not the same experience off taking a week off, which i also enjoy but usually reserve for camping/backcountry trips.
  - cgs 7y ago
    This hasn't been my experience. You just need something worthwhile to do. I love to surf and play traditional Irish music. So I took a month long trip alone to Ireland in the winter time / off season. Spent every day surfing, cooking, playing music in the pubs, and working. I had a blast. Figure out how to get the most out of someplace and go somewhere that's meaningful to you. Post up in one spot that's quiet and where you can focus and you'll likely have a good time.
ben_jones 7y ago
Are you me? Some of my personal anecdotes going through the exact same circumstances (I'm also currently applying for dual US/Irish citizenship): 1) I hate working out. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. I have not worked out consistently in the last 12 mo. 2) I hate cooking and cleaning up after cooking. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel better afterwards. I have not done significant amounts of home cooking in the last 12 mo. 3) Despite being a severely introverted individual I've become the person to push for more outings within my (small) social group. And I feel better afterwards. 4) I've gained about ~20 lbs in the last 12 mo. 5) I am tremendously comfortable with my current remote work and decent salary but I am not at all happy in a general sense 6) I worry my career is stagnating as I near my 2 year mark in this role. Hearing about the salaries my colleagues are getting at other companies contributes to 7) I've been using Tinder for casual dating. Recently I realized I really, really, don't want to use a Match Group product as the cornerstone of my dating life so now I'm trying to do it in more "natural" ways, but due to the above I find myself not being a great candidate. Overall, working remotely has contributed greatly to a sense of depression and anxiety I carry almost every day. However I've been dealing with it long enough that I think I have a good sense of it, I'm doing better these past few months then the rest of the year combined and have clear goals (like the working out) that will help me do better. I hope these points aren't too candid, I just figured many in this community could be going through the same things and hearing a shared story would help.
- jpgvm 7y ago
  The only real piece of advice I have for changing those things is committing to it. Losing weight is a good place to start, it has easily observable results and you can go at your own pace. I lost 20kg in 6mo when I started travelling, it was my first "change my life" goal and it made it a lot easier to start on other things that I hoped would be beneficial for me long-term - like finally starting on getting my teeth fixed despite my fear of dentists. Finding the first win helps a ton. :)
- oldboyFX 7y ago
  > I hate doing a healthy thing. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. Ah yes, that's familiar.
teunispeters 7y ago
Me too, having moved half way across Canada to get a bit of a quieter home, far from where cost of living was spiralling out of control. (Vancouver BC - and it is for everyone there, pretty much). Oh I have a family and have set up house, and that helps a lot. I'm still finding community and roots and trying to remember what I like doing when not working .. but I already know I like working with hands so that helps direct me some already. so I'm slowly teaching child sewing (as I slowly remember how to, myself).
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
Man, so much of what you write resonates with me, and quite much matches some of my current questions or ponderings. I would love to be able to meet a few people in similar situations around a bonfire, and chat like friends. Perhaps we'd come away with some insights; otherwise, we'd have at least enjoyed the company of a few new friends and some warm fire light.
Arubis 7y ago
If available, I strongly urge you to find a local coworking center that focuses on community (ie. not WeWork or a similar executive office relabeled as coworking). Try poking around on https://coworking.org/visa https://coworking.org/visa or https://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/29303049/Directory https://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/29303049/Directory. I've been full-time remote for my entire software development career and have happily taken advantage of it for occasional travels and such, but for the most part live in one place and love the community that I've plugged into. Finding a place where I'm surrounded every workday by people that I get along with rather than sitting at home with my dog and my computer has been totally integral to that.
- arkitaip 7y ago
  Wait, a coworking center is a place you share with people who aren't your actual coworkers because you wanted to work remotely? Man, this new economy is out of sync.
  - Arubis 7y ago
    I get that you're being flippant, but yeah, it does sound a little strange at first blush: work remotely, but without working from home? The secret is that spending all your time alone actually sucks for a lot of people (and for those whom it doesn't, great! Working from home may serve you well). It so happens that coworking strikes a good balance for many of us. My location and that of my employer are fully decoupled, and my coworkers don't have any overlapping office politics. When I change jobs, I don't stop seeing my friends. It's pretty ideal.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    I would love to move to an area where I can afford a proper piece of land. The chances to find modern and interesting companies there is very unrealistic. Put there an co-working office and there will be fast internet and social noise.
el_dev_hell 7y ago
> I can live wherever I want, but I don't know where I want to live! I can even move to Europe as I am a dual US/Irish citizen, but I don't know where I would want to go in Europe! I'm in a very similar situation. I can work from basically anywhere. For the first year of fully remote work, I moved all over my country. During the second year, I went abroad and spend 3ish months in several nearby countries. Now I'm entering year 3 and I'm miserable. Having freedom to live anywhere makes the place I choose feel like it's "wrong" in some way.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Same. It was glorious for 2 years. Now going on ~5 years remote it's lonely and isolating. I can go anywhere... but where?
dromen 7y ago
Let me attempt to draw you a pyramid of home location needs: 5. Political situation - not a warzone? Not under sharia? Very democratic, or key to world issues you consider important? 4. Climate - no tundra/sahara? Would you benefit from living near the sea? 3. Food - is the local food edible? Is the local food cheap, including the restaurants? Or is it just very good? 2. Access to nature - do you want to try mountain ranges? Forests? A kind of people you like having around? If I feel disconnected from the city, I just use the public utilities more: coffee, beer, parks and benches for reading on. Not quite collecting mushrooms in the forest but I'm getting there. 1. Culture and language - any cultures you want to learn about? New languages? What would bring your personal and professional development in harmony? Good luck! P.S.: The Netherlands are decent. Everything is very "duidelijk", clear, and direct. People don't mind speaking English and speak it well. Weather is mild, can be a bit rainy but not half as bad as Britain. Housing aplenty for a programmer's salary. Consider visiting for a week or so if it peaks your interest.
- socceroos 7y ago
  Come live in Tasmania. We double-tick the top 4 on that list imho
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    I've been in Tasmanian for 6 years now, without a doubt the best place I've lived in, of the handful of places I've lived in Australia. Contact email in my profile.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    Tried to live in the Oz after a working holiday visa! None of you all wanted to sponsor me -- and I had professional creds. Applied everywhere too. AWS/Amazon Australia still send me recruiting emails occasionally.
dominotw 7y ago
> I can live wherever I want, but I don't know where I want to live! May I suggest picking up a outdoor hobby and living near a place that enables it. Since winter is coming up. How about skiing and colorado. I promise you mountains will lift your sprits up, life problems seem so meaningless in mighty mountains.
- eternalny1 7y ago
  > May I suggest picking up a outdoor hobby and living near a place that enables it. OP here ... I used to be a competitive snowboarder, but that was many years ago. Now I am pretty out of shape from sitting in front of computers for decades, but that's my own fault for not taking care of myself. It is funny you mention this though, because I currently live about 20 minutes from a ski resort and was thinking about a season pass to get back into it.
rb666 7y ago
Try The Netherlands. Great infrastructure, relaxed people, OK'ish weather, many many innovative IT companies, beautiful nature as well as cities.
st1ck 7y ago
Have you ever considered that if you move to some less developed parts of EU, while retaining your salary (and likely reducing taxes), you can basically retire in several years? This is something most people in the world would dream of.

WhiteSage 7y ago

Choose some hobbies and find some local community supporting them. Engage in lessons around them, or offer lessons yourself. It doesn't matter where, but do not wait for things to happen, make them happen.

shostack 7y ago
I'd love to see more around helping people choose hobbies. My problem is finding ones I can sink my teeth into and be passionate about. But coming across those is finding a needle in a haystack.
totalperspectiv 7y ago
While not always considered a hobby, I think social groups are forming around group exercise more often now. It's healthy, you get a little shared suffering in, and you meet a whole cross section of your community you may not meet otherwise.

barrkel 7y ago

I think you're conflating the migrant issue with the remote worker issue. Migrants have most of the issues you talk about; they're not close to their family networks, don't particularly feel that their current location is home, and where they came from certainly isn't home either. I did remote work from my home town for a few years, for a US company. The biggest issues for me were not being plugged in to the internal politics of the company - water-cooler conversations and occasional chats after a few drinks don't happen; and not developing a network of local engineers who moved on to other companies, somewhat limiting my career options. I've since moved out of my home country, and work in the office. I have a different set of problems also in common with what you list, specific to migration.

tjoff 7y ago
It's really common, migrant or not. Just because you have family around doesn't mean you see them every week. This becomes a huge problem if you don't get any social contact at work, even if you don't thrive in that environment I'd say that it is a necessity for the vast majority of people. Even for introverts that thrive alone.
mantoto 7y ago
Could be a bigger problem for migrants but doesn't has to be. I know enough people without any family left or only one person left with relatives without a bond.

kirstenbirgit 7y ago

I've been traveling a lot lately to figure out whether I'd want to move. Currently in Denmark which is great in all sorts of ways except the weather. I really hope I can move to South Europe at some point. Unfortunately I don't work remote, but if I did, I'd just cancel my apartment lease, put my things in storage and travel around the world and live out of hotels for a year to find out what I want.

eyko 7y ago
I started remote-working in 2016 and, for the first year, I pretty much did what you're saying. After moving around, I settled back in London (I'm not originally from the UK) for its professional environment. Working remotely makes it difficult to maintain professional network, but that gets easier if you live in a busy city -- frequent events and opportunities to network, but more importantly, a higher density of people working in your field. I still spend quite a bit of time outside of the UK (especially in the winter months), but as a "home" or HQ, I'll still pick the busier city. It's also not that bad when you don't need to commute and you find a neighbourhood with enough of a community culture. I really don't get as stressed as I used to be when I had to take the tube every weekday.
greggman2 7y ago
I tried this but it didn't work for me. was very lonely. travel gets old quick for me. The 7th church and 14th museum is just not that interesting. Traveling once in a while works better for me. I also didn't find out what I want. Everyone is different so I hope it works for you.

yepthatsreality 7y ago

You gotta “make” home. You don’t feel it out somewhere.

dingo_bat 7y ago

Seems like all your problems can get solved by getting married to someone you love.

ericmcer 7y ago

The ideal remote work situation to me would revolve around the ability to travel, want to go to Hawaii for two weeks? No big deal. People who talk about using a remote job to move to X city seem a bit detached from reality in my opinion.

kayoone 7y ago
Working while traveling is not for everyone though. Remote can mean many different things.
blahblahthrow 7y ago
As someone who has this flexibility, it's expensive and not that fun to go work in a hotel in a strange city for a couple weeks. I'd rather have a week off to ignore work and immerse myself
eternalny1 7y ago
I've done this, and it isn't great. It's not quite the "vacation" type experience you'd think it is. You still have to do work. So yes, you can fly to Hawaii for two weeks, pay for flights, hotel bills, meals, none of which are reimbursed because these are not corporate expenses we're talking about. And then you stay in the hotel or somewhere else plugged in for a long time to do the actual work they are paying you for. And then maybe go do something in Hawaii for a few hours.
- katbyte 7y ago
  shrug each to their own, i really enjoy going to another city and grabbing an airbnb for a couple weeks. Work at coffee shops overlooking the ocean, grab lunch somewhere, explore some sites, checkout hawaii, then get some work done in the evening. It's definitely not the same experience off taking a week off, which i also enjoy but usually reserve for camping/backcountry trips.
- cgs 7y ago
  This hasn't been my experience. You just need something worthwhile to do. I love to surf and play traditional Irish music. So I took a month long trip alone to Ireland in the winter time / off season. Spent every day surfing, cooking, playing music in the pubs, and working. I had a blast. Figure out how to get the most out of someplace and go somewhere that's meaningful to you. Post up in one spot that's quiet and where you can focus and you'll likely have a good time.

ben_jones 7y ago

Are you me? Some of my personal anecdotes going through the exact same circumstances (I'm also currently applying for dual US/Irish citizenship): 1) I hate working out. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. I have not worked out consistently in the last 12 mo. 2) I hate cooking and cleaning up after cooking. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel better afterwards. I have not done significant amounts of home cooking in the last 12 mo. 3) Despite being a severely introverted individual I've become the person to push for more outings within my (small) social group. And I feel better afterwards. 4) I've gained about ~20 lbs in the last 12 mo. 5) I am tremendously comfortable with my current remote work and decent salary but I am not at all happy in a general sense 6) I worry my career is stagnating as I near my 2 year mark in this role. Hearing about the salaries my colleagues are getting at other companies contributes to 7) I've been using Tinder for casual dating. Recently I realized I really, really, don't want to use a Match Group product as the cornerstone of my dating life so now I'm trying to do it in more "natural" ways, but due to the above I find myself not being a great candidate. Overall, working remotely has contributed greatly to a sense of depression and anxiety I carry almost every day. However I've been dealing with it long enough that I think I have a good sense of it, I'm doing better these past few months then the rest of the year combined and have clear goals (like the working out) that will help me do better. I hope these points aren't too candid, I just figured many in this community could be going through the same things and hearing a shared story would help.

jpgvm 7y ago
The only real piece of advice I have for changing those things is committing to it. Losing weight is a good place to start, it has easily observable results and you can go at your own pace. I lost 20kg in 6mo when I started travelling, it was my first "change my life" goal and it made it a lot easier to start on other things that I hoped would be beneficial for me long-term - like finally starting on getting my teeth fixed despite my fear of dentists. Finding the first win helps a ton. :)
oldboyFX 7y ago
> I hate doing a healthy thing. I don't want to do it. But when I do, I feel momentously better afterwards. Ah yes, that's familiar.

teunispeters 7y ago

Me too, having moved half way across Canada to get a bit of a quieter home, far from where cost of living was spiralling out of control. (Vancouver BC - and it is for everyone there, pretty much). Oh I have a family and have set up house, and that helps a lot. I'm still finding community and roots and trying to remember what I like doing when not working .. but I already know I like working with hands so that helps direct me some already. so I'm slowly teaching child sewing (as I slowly remember how to, myself).

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

Man, so much of what you write resonates with me, and quite much matches some of my current questions or ponderings. I would love to be able to meet a few people in similar situations around a bonfire, and chat like friends. Perhaps we'd come away with some insights; otherwise, we'd have at least enjoyed the company of a few new friends and some warm fire light.

Arubis 7y ago

If available, I strongly urge you to find a local coworking center that focuses on community (ie. not WeWork or a similar executive office relabeled as coworking). Try poking around on https://coworking.org/visa https://coworking.org/visa or https://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/29303049/Directory https://wiki.coworking.org/w/page/29303049/Directory. I've been full-time remote for my entire software development career and have happily taken advantage of it for occasional travels and such, but for the most part live in one place and love the community that I've plugged into. Finding a place where I'm surrounded every workday by people that I get along with rather than sitting at home with my dog and my computer has been totally integral to that.

arkitaip 7y ago
Wait, a coworking center is a place you share with people who aren't your actual coworkers because you wanted to work remotely? Man, this new economy is out of sync.
- Arubis 7y ago
  I get that you're being flippant, but yeah, it does sound a little strange at first blush: work remotely, but without working from home? The secret is that spending all your time alone actually sucks for a lot of people (and for those whom it doesn't, great! Working from home may serve you well). It so happens that coworking strikes a good balance for many of us. My location and that of my employer are fully decoupled, and my coworkers don't have any overlapping office politics. When I change jobs, I don't stop seeing my friends. It's pretty ideal.
- mantoto 7y ago
  I would love to move to an area where I can afford a proper piece of land. The chances to find modern and interesting companies there is very unrealistic. Put there an co-working office and there will be fast internet and social noise.

el_dev_hell 7y ago

> I can live wherever I want, but I don't know where I want to live! I can even move to Europe as I am a dual US/Irish citizen, but I don't know where I would want to go in Europe! I'm in a very similar situation. I can work from basically anywhere. For the first year of fully remote work, I moved all over my country. During the second year, I went abroad and spend 3ish months in several nearby countries. Now I'm entering year 3 and I'm miserable. Having freedom to live anywhere makes the place I choose feel like it's "wrong" in some way.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
Same. It was glorious for 2 years. Now going on ~5 years remote it's lonely and isolating. I can go anywhere... but where?

dromen 7y ago

Let me attempt to draw you a pyramid of home location needs: 5. Political situation - not a warzone? Not under sharia? Very democratic, or key to world issues you consider important? 4. Climate - no tundra/sahara? Would you benefit from living near the sea? 3. Food - is the local food edible? Is the local food cheap, including the restaurants? Or is it just very good? 2. Access to nature - do you want to try mountain ranges? Forests? A kind of people you like having around? If I feel disconnected from the city, I just use the public utilities more: coffee, beer, parks and benches for reading on. Not quite collecting mushrooms in the forest but I'm getting there. 1. Culture and language - any cultures you want to learn about? New languages? What would bring your personal and professional development in harmony? Good luck! P.S.: The Netherlands are decent. Everything is very "duidelijk", clear, and direct. People don't mind speaking English and speak it well. Weather is mild, can be a bit rainy but not half as bad as Britain. Housing aplenty for a programmer's salary. Consider visiting for a week or so if it peaks your interest.

socceroos 7y ago
Come live in Tasmania. We double-tick the top 4 on that list imho
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  I've been in Tasmanian for 6 years now, without a doubt the best place I've lived in, of the handful of places I've lived in Australia. Contact email in my profile.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Tried to live in the Oz after a working holiday visa! None of you all wanted to sponsor me -- and I had professional creds. Applied everywhere too. AWS/Amazon Australia still send me recruiting emails occasionally.

dominotw 7y ago

> I can live wherever I want, but I don't know where I want to live! May I suggest picking up a outdoor hobby and living near a place that enables it. Since winter is coming up. How about skiing and colorado. I promise you mountains will lift your sprits up, life problems seem so meaningless in mighty mountains.

eternalny1 7y ago
> May I suggest picking up a outdoor hobby and living near a place that enables it. OP here ... I used to be a competitive snowboarder, but that was many years ago. Now I am pretty out of shape from sitting in front of computers for decades, but that's my own fault for not taking care of myself. It is funny you mention this though, because I currently live about 20 minutes from a ski resort and was thinking about a season pass to get back into it.

rb666 7y ago

Try The Netherlands. Great infrastructure, relaxed people, OK'ish weather, many many innovative IT companies, beautiful nature as well as cities.

st1ck 7y ago

Have you ever considered that if you move to some less developed parts of EU, while retaining your salary (and likely reducing taxes), you can basically retire in several years? This is something most people in the world would dream of.