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Amish Counter Top Kitchen Appliances Run Off Compressed Air (2012)

130 points by SQL2219 7y ago

devicetray0 7y ago
> Where air power equipment may become the real alternative power source is when it is combined with a wind turbine air compressor, which the Amish are beginning to use. During a good steady windy season many Amish may not need to run a regular air compressor for days at a time. I have not heard about an wind/air turbine used to refill an air compressor (without electricity). Not sure how that would work, but I'm very interested in learning if anyone has background here.
- xupybd 7y ago
  Have heard of that done here in NZ. A remote workshop had wind turbines turning pumps that filled great big air tanks. Those tanks ran the workshop. They were not shunning technology it was just a cheaper option than running power out there or batteries.
  - vonseel 7y ago
    What do they do about lights and everything else that requires electricity? I’m assuming the air only powers air powered tools or things like the article mentioned that take special air power?
    - moftz 7y ago
      You can buy a lot of tools that run on just pneumatic power. As for lights, some solar panels, some car batteries, and efficient DC-powered LED lights. You could just get by with battery powered headlamps as well. Depending on the weather and where the shop is, skylights and outdoor workbenches would provide you a lot of light for whatever you're doing.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > I have not heard about an wind/air turbine used to refill an air compressor (without electricity). Not sure how that would work A wind turbine turns rotation into electricity. A motor turns electricity into rotation. A compressor uses rotation to compress gas. You can remove the electricity between stages 1 and 2.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    I think the part that isn't intuitive to everyone is how to "accumulate" potential energy if you don't have batteries/capacitors. Like how I can't fill my car tire with my bike pump. There's... there's magic missing. Something that takes a small amount of pressure and overcomes the huge pressure the other way. Check valves or whatnot. It's easier to perceive when you think about a massive turbine that can grind out a ton of electricity and power a compressor that by default produces a lot of air pressure. These tools are really neat to me. I love the idea of things like a hand crank radio, pulleys, and long levers. Presumably you could fill the tire of a transport truck with the bulb from a blood pressure cuff and a lot of time, but it's not intuitive to me what the mechanics are in between those two things.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > how to "accumulate" potential energy if you don't have batteries/capacitors That's what the compressed gas is - it's potential energy. It's like a battery. > Like how I can't fill my car tire with my bike pump. Why not? Because you can't pump hard enough and it's not strong enough to hold the pressure needed? You can build a stronger pump, and you can use a lever or gears (same thing really) to compensate for your strength if you can't pump any more. > Presumably you could fill the tire of a transport truck with the bulb from a blood pressure cuff and a lot of time, but it's not intuitive to me what the mechanics are in between those two things. Again that's just a 'lever' problem - you can't squeeze the bulb hard enough, so add a lever (and you may need to make the bulb stronger.)
      - Waterluvian 7y ago
        I personally understand these things. I'm trying (and failing) to communicate that mechanics can be less intuitive than electricity. I regret this post. :)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mc32 7y ago
It’s amusing and curious that while they shun modern tech they acquiesce to compressed air, which is fine, but it leaks. Can they not make some sort of semi-universal mechanical driveshaft powered via pedal power? Either use a kind of bike mechanism or like antique sewing machines and have a flexible driveshaft (like a plumbers flexible snake/auger that has a coupling that’d fit into lots of applications and devices. Sure it’s rubegoldbergian, but I mean they’re working with compressed air already.
- tzs 7y ago
  Saying they shun modern tech is a bit of an overstatement. More accurate would be that they approach it cautiously, making sure that it won't harm their community before adopting it. Here is a good article about this: https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/
- cdumler 7y ago
  > while they shun modern tech This is a common foible of "educated public," and a lot of people misunderstand the Amish: they don't shun modern tech. The have cars and phones, computers and websites, and such. It's not about the tech but what the tech brings about. They consider the social implications of technology: Who does this technology replace? Who does this empower with good habits or bad habits? If I use this and then I am done, what do I do with it? Does this make me dependent on something out side of my control? While they have technology, they limit who has/owns the technology. Complex tech is often communally used. But, personal technology is usually chosen with durability, simplicity, and reliability in mind. Check out their buggies[1]. These things aren't necessarily simple or cheap. Good ones are designed to last and be handed down, not like your old beater car you hand to your kid because it's frame is rusting out. They understand building technology quite well. We just don't think of it that way because of the materials used. [1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/...
  - mc32 7y ago
    Point taken. I didn't mean to gloss over the nuance. We could learn about buying things for the long run in mind when buying things. As well as taking social implications of deploying new technologies (the extremes like gamification, engagement, conflict, surveillance, mass consumption, etc.)
yumraj 7y ago
> Most of the Amish fill large air storage tanks using a gasoline or diesel powered engine. Isn't that cheating? The electricity is not fine, but gasoline and diesel powered engine, that itself is extracted and refined using electricity is. They should have compressed air using horse power.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  Human-cranked flywheel would be even better as it excludes the use of horse-technology, at least for that particular purpose.
- tzs 7y ago
  Their issue with electricity is with depending on the grid, not with electricity per se. They want to minimize critical dependencies on outside sources, especially single outside sources. Gasoline is a commodity available from many sources, so doesn't cause the kind of dependency the grid would. Many Amish do use non-grid electricity, from solar cells, batteries, windmill driven generators, or gas powered generators.
  - Jerry2 7y ago
    So, do Amish consider solar power acceptable?
    - eropple 7y ago
      Any question like that is hard to answer as Amish groups are pretty diverse. Some do. It depends on how that particular group views that technology's impact on the community.
    - e40 7y ago
      Can solar panels be made in ways they make their current appliances and tools? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing a huge reason solar panels are made in China is because their production pollutes a lot[1]. I'm guessing the Amish are against anything that pollutes. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...
robbrown451 7y ago
An interesting challenge would be making a compressed air powered computer or tv for them.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  Heard of generators? You can do that.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    Well I meant with no electricity at all. Here are some people who attempted it: https://www.niklasroy.com/workshop/184/PneumaticComputing https://www.niklasroy.com/workshop/184/PneumaticComputing
    - anfractuosity 7y ago
      Have you seen this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics which seems pretty cool. There seem to be computers which use liquid and formations of pipes to create different logic elements.
- gene-h 7y ago
  Univac built a 4 bit computer that ran off of compressed air using fluidics[0]. Making a TV would be much more difficult though. It is very difficult to make mechanical systems that can interact with electromagnetic radiation or work at similar frequencies. However we can get pretty far. The Scophony television is almost entirely mechanical. We feed the TV signal into a piezoelectric crystal which creates an ultrasonic wave that propagates through a clear fluid filled cell. We can shine light through this and the propagating wave will cause changes in light intensity due to the density variations. We can then scan this line of changing intensities through a some rotating mirrors to make a picture. Perhaps with an intense enough signal we could drive the piezoelectric directly, or perhaps we can make a MEMS based mechanical amplifier to amplify the tiny vibrations produced by a piezoelectric element directly driven by RF. [0]https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1464112 https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1464112 [1]http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/UltrasoundMod.htm http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/UltrasoundMod.htm
userbinator 7y ago
Not new technology, but I guess that's the point; pneumatic tools have been around for a long time and are very common in workshops where an ample supply of compressed air is available. I wonder how loud these are, that's one of the biggest drawbacks of air motors --- the shrill hissing and whining noises of a workshop are one of the more fatiguing sounds to hear. Relatedly, the Paris compressed-air power network was discussed here several months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19782760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19782760
- reaperducer 7y ago
  the shrill hissing and whining noises of a workshop are one of the more fatiguing sounds to hear. Can confirm. In the early 2000's, I built a web site for a small factory that ran almost entirely on compressed air. Part of the project involved spending six months on the production floor photographing items as they were built. (15,000 different SKUs!)
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    I wonder if you could get the website itself to run on compressed air…
    - bipson 7y ago
      Do you really wonder? The answer would be "Of course!" and "Of course not!". You don't need electricity to run a "computer". But as soon as you're trying to hook up this computer to the Internet, serving responses on an electrical network... I can't imagine how to do this without electricity. Of course you're not looking for answers using a turbine, are you?
      - rebuilder 7y ago
        Well, fiber optic cable uses light to transmit data... a vibrating mirror could modulate the output. How to receive, well, that seems a bit harder! Also probably some small issues with precise timing and bitrate are to be expected.
alamortsubite 7y ago
An Amish-owned grocery store I frequent has ceiling fans that run off compressed air. They sound really cool in operation, each one emitting a subtle, "Pop, chk chk chk chk.. Pop, chk chk chk chk.."
- saalweachter 7y ago
  As a home owner this intrigues me. If your house were a barn, there's nothing much to go wrong. Add some fire for heat, and now your house can burn down. Add some water for indoor plumbing and now your house can rot, flood, or simply be more attractive to termites (who need water plus wood). Add electricity for lighting and whatnot, and you now have a second way your house can burn down, or kill you in other ways. Pneumatics are interesting because their failure modes don't involve destroying the structure they inhabit.
  - fpgaminer 7y ago
    On the one hand, you're right, pneumatics won't burn the house down. On the other hand, their failure mode is to explode like a bomb and send shrapnel flying through human beings. But at least the house is safe?
    - saalweachter 7y ago
      Eh, while there is a certain potential, the primary failure mode for pneumatics is just a simple rupture, where a pipe splits and all the air runs out. Even that is easy enough to avoid by adding a few relief valves here and there that spring at the working pressure of the system, but that's not really a failure, and other house systems have comparable safety features, so not really a distinguishing feature of pneumatics vs electrics.
      - userbinator 7y ago
        the primary failure mode for pneumatics is just a simple rupture, where a pipe splits and all the air runs out ...rapidly releasing all that stored energy in the process, i.e. an explosion.
hyperpallium 7y ago
Exhalation, Ted Chiang http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/Exhalation%20-%20Ted%20Chiang.html http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/Exhalation%20-%20Te... (full text)
lpcamacho 7y ago
There is a good article about the benefits of compressed air technology on low tech magazine https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/05/ditch-the-batteries-off-the-grid-compressed-air-energy-storage.html https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/05/ditch-the-batteries-...
- arghwhat 7y ago
  As a common user of compressed air tools, there are countless drawbacks that likely negate the benefits: 1. Leakage. It is hard to avoid having connectors leak, requiring very frequent recompression of tanks even without use. 2. Efficiency. Compressed air tanks are very efficient for energy storage, but compressors and especially handheld tools are not. Also, if you are using a compressor powered by another easy-to-use source of energy such as electricity, you are just pointlessly throwing energy out the window. 3. Noise. You cannot get around the fact that the tools need to expel pressurized air, commonly powering either turbines (whirring noises) or pistons (adds banging/clicking noises). Compressors are also horribly noisy, with the best ones being a deep, powerful humm. The reason pneumatic tools are popular with mechanics and the likes is related to the built-in cooling effect allowing for dense high-powered tools, and that high-torque impact tools are also quite easy to make this way. The environment they're used in is already noisy, so that aspect doesn't matter.
ptah 7y ago
what are the limits of compressed air as a replacement for electricity?
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  The big one is efficiency. Air has much bigger losses any time you "do anything" with it. Converting it to mechanical energy is particularly expensive.
mirekrusin 7y ago
Slightly related - I was wondering the other day if it would be practical to have mechanical fridge for a can of a beer where you'd keep pumping out the air, creating lower pressure, cooling down the beer. I was wondering if it would be practical, ie. you could pump the beer to nice chilled temperature without too much sweat?
- itronitron 7y ago
  The vacuum will serve as an excellent insulator and therefore be unable to cool the beer down. If you're near a cold mountain stream then I suggest placing the can in the stream for a bit until it cools down :)
- n3k5 7y ago
  There's a problem with this proposal: As cooling down the entire fridge via this method is not feasible, you'd have to thermally insulate the can from the outside case of the fridge. As in a normal household fridge, the can would have to give off its heat to the surrounding air inside the cooled chamber. The more of that air you pump out, the more that process slows down. Instead, you could just take an ordinary mini fridge and replace the electric motor with a hand crank. Or maybe an exercise bike. It could measure how much work you have put in and show you an estimate of how much longer you need to pedal/crank until you have expended as many calories as the beer contains.
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  Isn't that how refrigerators already work? I mean the stuff that is compressed / evaporated lives in its own subsystem but I don't think there's any reason why that wouldn't work if powered manually.
- cpcallen 7y ago
  If you don't want to use electricity, why not just use a gas fridge? No electricity, not moving mechanical parts (except possibly a gas valve, if you want to get all fancy and have it thermostatically controlled) - just a bunch of fluids flowing around a series of interlinked pipes. The best explanation I've ever read about how they work: https://web.archive.org/web/20051128061124/http://www.cam.net.uk/home/StKilda/electrolux.html https://web.archive.org/web/20051128061124/http://www.cam.ne...
thrower123 7y ago
At some point, this kind of thing gets silly. If you're trying to take an end-run around your religious restrictions, what is really the point of sticking to them? I'm reminded of appliances that have sabbath modes, where they work based on proximity sensors or other mechanisms that respect the letter, if not the intent, of Abrahamic law.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  Those are not divine mandates, they are social conventions more than religious restrictions.
  - mlrtime 7y ago
    As they are all
Uhrheber 7y ago
Someone should tell them, that their bodies are running on electricity...
- frostburg 7y ago
  This is not accurate (well, it depends on how strict you want to be about ion channels). Electrical synapses are almost vestigial in our nervous systems, we could live without and lose not much more than part of our sense of smell.
- raducu 7y ago
  I doubt the amish have anything against electricity per se. I bet they are against TV, radio and internet.
roland35 7y ago
That is really cool! Like other people have said there are many different types of Amish, with varying levels of acceptance of technology. In general they value hard work and being self-sufficient, so sometimes they do use generators or power tools if they need to. I recently had an Amish crew put new siding on my house but they only used hand tools. The Amish realllly liked pop though, we would buy a big case of Coke, root beer, etc, and they would go through it very fast!
lawlessone 7y ago
AirPunk
code4tee 7y ago
Have visited Amish stores where they have pneumatic belts for the cash registers. The registers were about the only electric thing in sight and were powered by batteries and solar or generators. Lighting was all gas powered from propane tanks. They had some off the shelf lamps and things that had been re-rigged to run off LEDs and batteries (literally a car battery on the floor next to the lamp powering it). It was all very cool. Ceiling fans were also pneumatic. Building also had tons of skylights so during the day everything inside was lit with sunlight. Some people think the Amish are against technology which isn’t really accurate. It’s more that they’re intent on being self-sufficient and against unnecessary uses of technology.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Hope is a propane tank self sufficient? Or LEDs? All of this, except perhaps a lead acid battery, requires at least late 20th century technology, and a huge engineering effort to exist to get to the point of making it.
- cainxinth 7y ago
  “Some people think the Amish are against technology which isn’t really accurate. It’s more that they’re intent on being self-sufficient and against unnecessary uses of technology.” That’s not really accurate. They do have great respect for self sufficiency, but that’s not why they eschew technology. They do it for religious reasons. They, much like the Jewish Hassids, have chosen a heyday from their past that they believe god wants them to adhere to the restrictions and customs of. If they thought god was cool with iPhones, they’d get one tomorrow, self-sufficient or not.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    As a Jew who goes to a Hassidic minyan, I can assure you that none of us are stuck in a "heyday from the past."
    - cainxinth 7y ago
      I've been shopping at B&H Photo for years. I recognize that not all Hasidim are Luddites... but many, many are. And the entire culture is most certainly derivative of 18th century Eastern Europe.
keiferski 7y ago
When you're growing up in a "regular" setting in Pennsylvania, you tend to regard the Amish as a sort of old-fashioned Luddite curiosity. But once you look into their beliefs and practices regarding technology, it is actually quite rational - and the rest of society could learn a thing or two from them. Their policy on phones is a good example. While they allow them in particular cases (such as business or keeping in touch with distant family members), they've traditionally kept the phones out the home and in a separate "outhouse" sort of building. Phones in the home continue to be rejected today, due in part to the symbolic connection to the world but also to preserve the institution of the home. Too much phone usage, as any parents of teenagers may be able to attest to, can compromise family life and time spent with family in general. Having the telephone shanty away from the home maintains a degree of separation but allows the technology to be used when needed. Its distance from the home also discourages unnecessary calls. http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-telephones/ http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-telephones/
- dangus 7y ago
  The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense. We sometimes hold up the Amish and similar communities as "more pure" versions of ourselves, when in reality they are families just like our own - just with (IMO oppressive and patriarchal) orthodox beliefs applied. Any digital household can attest to maintaining rules like: "No phones at the dinner table" "No TV until after dinner and homework" Is it also not possible to interrupt attentive family time with books and toys, or any other non-digital distractions? Maintaining rules and family time in a household isn't unique to these communities.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    > The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense. First off, I don't think it's minute at all. Look outside - 95% of people are staring at a screen in their hands. Cell phones in general and social media in particular have completely taken over the social sphere. Casual conversation on the street or in the checkout line has been replaced with pull out your device and scroll. Online dating is rapidly becoming the default dating method. The examples are endless. Secondly, the Amish don't shun any technology past an arbitrary date. They decide as a community whether or not to introduce a certain technology, depending on its perceived benefits or costs. This strikes me as a rather wise and mature approach, one that the general public would do well to adopt. And finally, statistically, the Amish have far more robust families and birth rates as compared to the general population. So it seems pretty easy to make the argument that their system results in a greater focus on family, even if adopting similar behaviors (without becoming Amish) is theoretically possible.
jcmoscon 7y ago
I remembered about this compressed air car. That's an interesting tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car
cesarb 7y ago
This reminded me of an article I saw some time ago (https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/09/power-from-the-tap-water-motors.html https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/09/power-from-the-tap-w...) about appliances (including but not limited to kitchen ones) powered by water from the tap.
- kitd 7y ago
  I was wondering what the advantages of compressed air are over water. Given water is an incompressible fluid, I would have thought it was a much more efficient means of driving turbines and other moving equipment.
  - ticviking 7y ago
    But the fact that it is incompressible makes it more difficult to use it as a store of energy to be used on demand. One of the advantages of compressed air is you can let a little out of the tank to power one thing for a bit, then a little more to power a different thing, and only need to run the generator when the tank is out of air.
  - greedo 7y ago
    An air leak usually doesn't cause damage.
dangus 7y ago
IMO, the Amish/Mennonite or similar groups' systems never made a lot of sense, like many extreme religious orthodoxies. Powering these appliances with compressed air doesn't change the fact that their engineering drawings were done on a computer, assembled in a factory rife with robotics, and delivered on a UPS truck. And that the most convenient method of producing compressed air involves internal combustion or electricity. Nothing in the Bible supports electricity or any other 20th century technology being anything sinful. It's just another extremist group making their own bonkers interpretations of a religious book. I think the Amish are glorified based on their work ethic and nice furniture, but I think the reality of living in that community has all the negatives of an extreme religious cult.
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  The point of their approach to technology is to cherry pick that which supports, and does not diminish, their contemplative and social way of life. I don't think they're against computers either, to give an example. They're just against letting them be a temptation to idleness. Obviously they live embedded in a world that doesn't work according to their rules. Everyone who wants to change society does that.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    > I don't think they're against computers either They aren't. There are in fact computers specifically designed and marketed for Amish business work. They're more like a classic Word Processor than what we call a computer.
  - neuralRiot 7y ago
    That’s what I find admirable, when you put hard work into something you learn to value things and the work of others.
- mdturnerphys 7y ago
  From my understanding they do not reject electricity because it's inherently sinful. Their rejection of it comes from desires to maintain a degree of separation from the rest of the world and to continue a tradition of hard work, which are biblically motivated. I think any religious beliefs, from anywhere on the conservative to progressive spectrum, will have aspects that seem illogical to an outsider. On the scale of things, the reasoning for these restrictions doesn't seem too irrational. IMO, it does seem unnecessarily inflammatory to refer to a pacifist group as extreme when that term is usually applied to groups engaged in terrorism, etc. I also find the label of cult too strong, unless you're using it in the formal sense. Look into the tradition of rumspringa [0]--unless you're being cynical it doesn't seem like a cultish practice. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa
JulianMorrison 7y ago
Combined with a wind turbine air compressor as described in the article, that's some serious solarpunk stuff right there.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
teilo 7y ago
My brother, who lives in rural Michigan and is surrounded by Amish, took me to one of their wood shops. These Amish were allowed to run diesel engines, provided they started them with a fly-wheel and clutch system. In this case, the diesel engine was in a shed at the side of the building, and was connected to a drive shaft that, through a series of transfer cases, belt and pulleys, secondary drive shafts, etc., powered everything you can imagine in a professional wood shop: planers, table saws, routers, etc., and a large population of battery-powered hand tools that had been converted to direct drive and were attached to flexible speedometer-like cables. It was extraordinary.
- Accujack 7y ago
  This is exactly how such shops were powered in the late 1800-early 1900s, before electricity was everywhere. The belt systems (sometimes in large factories there were thousands of machines running) were driven by water power, steam engines, and eventually electric motors. You can still pretty easily buy antique tools with belt inputs, including heavy machine tools like lathes and milling machines.
  - aphextim 7y ago
    I just recently saw a steam and gas engine show where they had a ton of still working washing machines and other household amenities that worked off a belt system and mini 1.5-2.5 hp steam engine. They had larger lumber mill type saws and other industrial sized stuff that still worked too. Was pretty crazy seeing vehicles still driving around the fairgrounds that were made so long ago. It was very neat to realize how much our society is more of a throwaway society in terms of the honor in being able to repair/fix your own stuff and make it last for generations. I thought to myself, "There is no way in 100 years a Tesla would still be in working condition like these old steam engine vehicles."
  - catalogia 7y ago
    For a few years after the introduction of electric motors they were still designing shops around line shafts with belt drives to every machine, because the electric motors were large and expensive enough that it didn't yet make sense to give each tool its own motor. For instance the USS Olympia (C-6), commissioned in 1895 and now a museum ship in Philadelphia, was electrified but had a (very compact) line shaft machine shop on board.
grawprog 7y ago
I'm not sure I really see the difference between using compressed air powered tools and appliances and electrical ones. All of the hand tools at my work are air powered because the wet environment makes electrical ones dangerous. The air powered tools are also typically more powerful and run at higher rpms and have more horsepower than electrical ones. I'm not sure why the air powered appliances have less torque but air powered grinders and polishers definitely have more power than electic ones, I've used both.
- Skunkleton 7y ago
  In general, I don't think air powered tools have less torque. Rather, they have less torque at low rpms.
  - grawprog 7y ago
    Ah fair enough that makes more sense. The description made it a not quite as clear. I think it's too bad home air compressors tend to be more of a niche/hobbyist thing or situations like the Amish. I honestly never really appreciated the power and versatility of a compressed air system until working in a place that works off of and relies on it.
    - egdod 7y ago
      Home air compressors produce so little compressed air that they generally can’t even keep up with the needs of a small tool at 100% duty cycle.
evgeniysharapov 7y ago
This is getting to the absurd, how does the air get compressed ? Steam engine ?
MisterTea 7y ago
I read an article in a woodworking magazine showing how an amish shop runs its traditionally electric machines on diesel power. A long trench runs part the length of the shop with a shaft supported by bearing blocks. It terminates in an adjacent room housing a diesel engine. A belt system couples the engine to the shaft and air compressor. Along the trench are all the standard machines you'd find in a shop: drill press, planer, sanders, table saw, joiner, etc. Each one had its electric motor removed and retrofitted with an elaborate system of shafts, belts and sheaves which connected to the main shaft in the trench. They turned them on and off using a simple yet clever lever operated belt tensioner. By default the belt had enough slack to allow it to slip on the drive sheave preventing the machine from running. When the lever was pulled, it forced the belt between two tensioning sheaves tightening it which then started the machine. Very simple and clever and all made from wood. Power tools were all air operated and one clever hack they made was a pneumatic wood glue dispenser. It was a 1-2 foot length of 3 or 4 inch PVC pipe, capped at both ends, one end being a threaded port. Plumbed to the top of the tube was an air pressure regulator to lower the pressure to just a few PSI. At the bottom, a hose which ran to a blow gun. You shut the air, opened the cap, filled it with glue, closed it and turned the air on. press the blow gun and now you have a glue gun! Really neat and my father built one for his wood shop. One bonus of using air tools is they are lighter and more rugged than equivalent electric power tools. I've heard claims of 3-4x lifetime so long as they are fed clean, lubricated air. Nowhere near as efficient though as a lot of power is lost as heat in air compression.

130 points by SQL2219 7y ago

> Where air power equipment may become the real alternative power source is when it is combined with a wind turbine air compressor, which the Amish are beginning to use. During a good steady windy season many Amish may not need to run a regular air compressor for days at a time. I have not heard about an wind/air turbine used to refill an air compressor (without electricity). Not sure how that would work, but I'm very interested in learning if anyone has background here.

xupybd 7y ago
Have heard of that done here in NZ. A remote workshop had wind turbines turning pumps that filled great big air tanks. Those tanks ran the workshop. They were not shunning technology it was just a cheaper option than running power out there or batteries.
- vonseel 7y ago
  What do they do about lights and everything else that requires electricity? I’m assuming the air only powers air powered tools or things like the article mentioned that take special air power?
  - moftz 7y ago
    You can buy a lot of tools that run on just pneumatic power. As for lights, some solar panels, some car batteries, and efficient DC-powered LED lights. You could just get by with battery powered headlamps as well. Depending on the weather and where the shop is, skylights and outdoor workbenches would provide you a lot of light for whatever you're doing.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> I have not heard about an wind/air turbine used to refill an air compressor (without electricity). Not sure how that would work A wind turbine turns rotation into electricity. A motor turns electricity into rotation. A compressor uses rotation to compress gas. You can remove the electricity between stages 1 and 2.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  I think the part that isn't intuitive to everyone is how to "accumulate" potential energy if you don't have batteries/capacitors. Like how I can't fill my car tire with my bike pump. There's... there's magic missing. Something that takes a small amount of pressure and overcomes the huge pressure the other way. Check valves or whatnot. It's easier to perceive when you think about a massive turbine that can grind out a ton of electricity and power a compressor that by default produces a lot of air pressure. These tools are really neat to me. I love the idea of things like a hand crank radio, pulleys, and long levers. Presumably you could fill the tire of a transport truck with the bulb from a blood pressure cuff and a lot of time, but it's not intuitive to me what the mechanics are in between those two things.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > how to "accumulate" potential energy if you don't have batteries/capacitors That's what the compressed gas is - it's potential energy. It's like a battery. > Like how I can't fill my car tire with my bike pump. Why not? Because you can't pump hard enough and it's not strong enough to hold the pressure needed? You can build a stronger pump, and you can use a lever or gears (same thing really) to compensate for your strength if you can't pump any more. > Presumably you could fill the tire of a transport truck with the bulb from a blood pressure cuff and a lot of time, but it's not intuitive to me what the mechanics are in between those two things. Again that's just a 'lever' problem - you can't squeeze the bulb hard enough, so add a lever (and you may need to make the bulb stronger.)
    - Waterluvian 7y ago
      I personally understand these things. I'm trying (and failing) to communicate that mechanics can be less intuitive than electricity. I regret this post. :)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

mc32 7y ago

It’s amusing and curious that while they shun modern tech they acquiesce to compressed air, which is fine, but it leaks. Can they not make some sort of semi-universal mechanical driveshaft powered via pedal power? Either use a kind of bike mechanism or like antique sewing machines and have a flexible driveshaft (like a plumbers flexible snake/auger that has a coupling that’d fit into lots of applications and devices. Sure it’s rubegoldbergian, but I mean they’re working with compressed air already.

tzs 7y ago
Saying they shun modern tech is a bit of an overstatement. More accurate would be that they approach it cautiously, making sure that it won't harm their community before adopting it. Here is a good article about this: https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/
cdumler 7y ago
> while they shun modern tech This is a common foible of "educated public," and a lot of people misunderstand the Amish: they don't shun modern tech. The have cars and phones, computers and websites, and such. It's not about the tech but what the tech brings about. They consider the social implications of technology: Who does this technology replace? Who does this empower with good habits or bad habits? If I use this and then I am done, what do I do with it? Does this make me dependent on something out side of my control? While they have technology, they limit who has/owns the technology. Complex tech is often communally used. But, personal technology is usually chosen with durability, simplicity, and reliability in mind. Check out their buggies[1]. These things aren't necessarily simple or cheap. Good ones are designed to last and be handed down, not like your old beater car you hand to your kid because it's frame is rusting out. They understand building technology quite well. We just don't think of it that way because of the materials used. [1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/how-the-amish-build-a-buggy/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a24666/...
- mc32 7y ago
  Point taken. I didn't mean to gloss over the nuance. We could learn about buying things for the long run in mind when buying things. As well as taking social implications of deploying new technologies (the extremes like gamification, engagement, conflict, surveillance, mass consumption, etc.)

yumraj 7y ago

> Most of the Amish fill large air storage tanks using a gasoline or diesel powered engine. Isn't that cheating? The electricity is not fine, but gasoline and diesel powered engine, that itself is extracted and refined using electricity is. They should have compressed air using horse power.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Human-cranked flywheel would be even better as it excludes the use of horse-technology, at least for that particular purpose.
tzs 7y ago
Their issue with electricity is with depending on the grid, not with electricity per se. They want to minimize critical dependencies on outside sources, especially single outside sources. Gasoline is a commodity available from many sources, so doesn't cause the kind of dependency the grid would. Many Amish do use non-grid electricity, from solar cells, batteries, windmill driven generators, or gas powered generators.
- Jerry2 7y ago
  So, do Amish consider solar power acceptable?
  - eropple 7y ago
    Any question like that is hard to answer as Amish groups are pretty diverse. Some do. It depends on how that particular group views that technology's impact on the community.
  - e40 7y ago
    Can solar panels be made in ways they make their current appliances and tools? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing a huge reason solar panels are made in China is because their production pollutes a lot[1]. I'm guessing the Amish are against anything that pollutes. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23/if-solar-panels-are-so-clean-why-do-they-produce-so-much-toxic-waste/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/23...

robbrown451 7y ago

An interesting challenge would be making a compressed air powered computer or tv for them.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
Heard of generators? You can do that.
- robbrown451 7y ago
  Well I meant with no electricity at all. Here are some people who attempted it: https://www.niklasroy.com/workshop/184/PneumaticComputing https://www.niklasroy.com/workshop/184/PneumaticComputing
  - anfractuosity 7y ago
    Have you seen this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics which seems pretty cool. There seem to be computers which use liquid and formations of pipes to create different logic elements.
gene-h 7y ago
Univac built a 4 bit computer that ran off of compressed air using fluidics[0]. Making a TV would be much more difficult though. It is very difficult to make mechanical systems that can interact with electromagnetic radiation or work at similar frequencies. However we can get pretty far. The Scophony television is almost entirely mechanical. We feed the TV signal into a piezoelectric crystal which creates an ultrasonic wave that propagates through a clear fluid filled cell. We can shine light through this and the propagating wave will cause changes in light intensity due to the density variations. We can then scan this line of changing intensities through a some rotating mirrors to make a picture. Perhaps with an intense enough signal we could drive the piezoelectric directly, or perhaps we can make a MEMS based mechanical amplifier to amplify the tiny vibrations produced by a piezoelectric element directly driven by RF. [0]https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1464112 https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1464112 [1]http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/UltrasoundMod.htm http://www.bluehaze.com.au/modlight/UltrasoundMod.htm

userbinator 7y ago

Not new technology, but I guess that's the point; pneumatic tools have been around for a long time and are very common in workshops where an ample supply of compressed air is available. I wonder how loud these are, that's one of the biggest drawbacks of air motors --- the shrill hissing and whining noises of a workshop are one of the more fatiguing sounds to hear. Relatedly, the Paris compressed-air power network was discussed here several months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19782760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19782760

reaperducer 7y ago
the shrill hissing and whining noises of a workshop are one of the more fatiguing sounds to hear. Can confirm. In the early 2000's, I built a web site for a small factory that ran almost entirely on compressed air. Part of the project involved spending six months on the production floor photographing items as they were built. (15,000 different SKUs!)
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I wonder if you could get the website itself to run on compressed air…
  - bipson 7y ago
    Do you really wonder? The answer would be "Of course!" and "Of course not!". You don't need electricity to run a "computer". But as soon as you're trying to hook up this computer to the Internet, serving responses on an electrical network... I can't imagine how to do this without electricity. Of course you're not looking for answers using a turbine, are you?
    - rebuilder 7y ago
      Well, fiber optic cable uses light to transmit data... a vibrating mirror could modulate the output. How to receive, well, that seems a bit harder! Also probably some small issues with precise timing and bitrate are to be expected.

alamortsubite 7y ago

An Amish-owned grocery store I frequent has ceiling fans that run off compressed air. They sound really cool in operation, each one emitting a subtle, "Pop, chk chk chk chk.. Pop, chk chk chk chk.."

saalweachter 7y ago
As a home owner this intrigues me. If your house were a barn, there's nothing much to go wrong. Add some fire for heat, and now your house can burn down. Add some water for indoor plumbing and now your house can rot, flood, or simply be more attractive to termites (who need water plus wood). Add electricity for lighting and whatnot, and you now have a second way your house can burn down, or kill you in other ways. Pneumatics are interesting because their failure modes don't involve destroying the structure they inhabit.
- fpgaminer 7y ago
  On the one hand, you're right, pneumatics won't burn the house down. On the other hand, their failure mode is to explode like a bomb and send shrapnel flying through human beings. But at least the house is safe?
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    Eh, while there is a certain potential, the primary failure mode for pneumatics is just a simple rupture, where a pipe splits and all the air runs out. Even that is easy enough to avoid by adding a few relief valves here and there that spring at the working pressure of the system, but that's not really a failure, and other house systems have comparable safety features, so not really a distinguishing feature of pneumatics vs electrics.
    - userbinator 7y ago
      the primary failure mode for pneumatics is just a simple rupture, where a pipe splits and all the air runs out ...rapidly releasing all that stored energy in the process, i.e. an explosion.

hyperpallium 7y ago

Exhalation, Ted Chiang http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/Exhalation%20-%20Ted%20Chiang.html http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/Exhalation%20-%20Te... (full text)

lpcamacho 7y ago

There is a good article about the benefits of compressed air technology on low tech magazine https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/05/ditch-the-batteries-off-the-grid-compressed-air-energy-storage.html https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/05/ditch-the-batteries-...

arghwhat 7y ago
As a common user of compressed air tools, there are countless drawbacks that likely negate the benefits: 1. Leakage. It is hard to avoid having connectors leak, requiring very frequent recompression of tanks even without use. 2. Efficiency. Compressed air tanks are very efficient for energy storage, but compressors and especially handheld tools are not. Also, if you are using a compressor powered by another easy-to-use source of energy such as electricity, you are just pointlessly throwing energy out the window. 3. Noise. You cannot get around the fact that the tools need to expel pressurized air, commonly powering either turbines (whirring noises) or pistons (adds banging/clicking noises). Compressors are also horribly noisy, with the best ones being a deep, powerful humm. The reason pneumatic tools are popular with mechanics and the likes is related to the built-in cooling effect allowing for dense high-powered tools, and that high-torque impact tools are also quite easy to make this way. The environment they're used in is already noisy, so that aspect doesn't matter.

ptah 7y ago

what are the limits of compressed air as a replacement for electricity?

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
The big one is efficiency. Air has much bigger losses any time you "do anything" with it. Converting it to mechanical energy is particularly expensive.

mirekrusin 7y ago

Slightly related - I was wondering the other day if it would be practical to have mechanical fridge for a can of a beer where you'd keep pumping out the air, creating lower pressure, cooling down the beer. I was wondering if it would be practical, ie. you could pump the beer to nice chilled temperature without too much sweat?

itronitron 7y ago
The vacuum will serve as an excellent insulator and therefore be unable to cool the beer down. If you're near a cold mountain stream then I suggest placing the can in the stream for a bit until it cools down :)
n3k5 7y ago
There's a problem with this proposal: As cooling down the entire fridge via this method is not feasible, you'd have to thermally insulate the can from the outside case of the fridge. As in a normal household fridge, the can would have to give off its heat to the surrounding air inside the cooled chamber. The more of that air you pump out, the more that process slows down. Instead, you could just take an ordinary mini fridge and replace the electric motor with a hand crank. Or maybe an exercise bike. It could measure how much work you have put in and show you an estimate of how much longer you need to pedal/crank until you have expended as many calories as the beer contains.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
Isn't that how refrigerators already work? I mean the stuff that is compressed / evaporated lives in its own subsystem but I don't think there's any reason why that wouldn't work if powered manually.
cpcallen 7y ago
If you don't want to use electricity, why not just use a gas fridge? No electricity, not moving mechanical parts (except possibly a gas valve, if you want to get all fancy and have it thermostatically controlled) - just a bunch of fluids flowing around a series of interlinked pipes. The best explanation I've ever read about how they work: https://web.archive.org/web/20051128061124/http://www.cam.net.uk/home/StKilda/electrolux.html https://web.archive.org/web/20051128061124/http://www.cam.ne...

thrower123 7y ago

At some point, this kind of thing gets silly. If you're trying to take an end-run around your religious restrictions, what is really the point of sticking to them? I'm reminded of appliances that have sabbath modes, where they work based on proximity sensors or other mechanisms that respect the letter, if not the intent, of Abrahamic law.

kgwgk 7y ago
Those are not divine mandates, they are social conventions more than religious restrictions.
- mlrtime 7y ago
  As they are all

Uhrheber 7y ago

Someone should tell them, that their bodies are running on electricity...

frostburg 7y ago
This is not accurate (well, it depends on how strict you want to be about ion channels). Electrical synapses are almost vestigial in our nervous systems, we could live without and lose not much more than part of our sense of smell.
raducu 7y ago
I doubt the amish have anything against electricity per se. I bet they are against TV, radio and internet.

roland35 7y ago

That is really cool! Like other people have said there are many different types of Amish, with varying levels of acceptance of technology. In general they value hard work and being self-sufficient, so sometimes they do use generators or power tools if they need to. I recently had an Amish crew put new siding on my house but they only used hand tools. The Amish realllly liked pop though, we would buy a big case of Coke, root beer, etc, and they would go through it very fast!

lawlessone 7y ago

AirPunk

code4tee 7y ago

Have visited Amish stores where they have pneumatic belts for the cash registers. The registers were about the only electric thing in sight and were powered by batteries and solar or generators. Lighting was all gas powered from propane tanks. They had some off the shelf lamps and things that had been re-rigged to run off LEDs and batteries (literally a car battery on the floor next to the lamp powering it). It was all very cool. Ceiling fans were also pneumatic. Building also had tons of skylights so during the day everything inside was lit with sunlight. Some people think the Amish are against technology which isn’t really accurate. It’s more that they’re intent on being self-sufficient and against unnecessary uses of technology.

Symbiote 7y ago
Hope is a propane tank self sufficient? Or LEDs? All of this, except perhaps a lead acid battery, requires at least late 20th century technology, and a huge engineering effort to exist to get to the point of making it.
cainxinth 7y ago
“Some people think the Amish are against technology which isn’t really accurate. It’s more that they’re intent on being self-sufficient and against unnecessary uses of technology.” That’s not really accurate. They do have great respect for self sufficiency, but that’s not why they eschew technology. They do it for religious reasons. They, much like the Jewish Hassids, have chosen a heyday from their past that they believe god wants them to adhere to the restrictions and customs of. If they thought god was cool with iPhones, they’d get one tomorrow, self-sufficient or not.
- fortran77 7y ago
  As a Jew who goes to a Hassidic minyan, I can assure you that none of us are stuck in a "heyday from the past."
  - cainxinth 7y ago
    I've been shopping at B&H Photo for years. I recognize that not all Hasidim are Luddites... but many, many are. And the entire culture is most certainly derivative of 18th century Eastern Europe.

keiferski 7y ago

When you're growing up in a "regular" setting in Pennsylvania, you tend to regard the Amish as a sort of old-fashioned Luddite curiosity. But once you look into their beliefs and practices regarding technology, it is actually quite rational - and the rest of society could learn a thing or two from them. Their policy on phones is a good example. While they allow them in particular cases (such as business or keeping in touch with distant family members), they've traditionally kept the phones out the home and in a separate "outhouse" sort of building. Phones in the home continue to be rejected today, due in part to the symbolic connection to the world but also to preserve the institution of the home. Too much phone usage, as any parents of teenagers may be able to attest to, can compromise family life and time spent with family in general. Having the telephone shanty away from the home maintains a degree of separation but allows the technology to be used when needed. Its distance from the home also discourages unnecessary calls. http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-telephones/ http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-telephones/

dangus 7y ago
The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense. We sometimes hold up the Amish and similar communities as "more pure" versions of ourselves, when in reality they are families just like our own - just with (IMO oppressive and patriarchal) orthodox beliefs applied. Any digital household can attest to maintaining rules like: "No phones at the dinner table" "No TV until after dinner and homework" Is it also not possible to interrupt attentive family time with books and toys, or any other non-digital distractions? Maintaining rules and family time in a household isn't unique to these communities.
- keiferski 7y ago
  > The practical difference between this ideal and our own lives is so minute that the entire idea of shunning modern technology past an arbitrary date still doesn't end up making any sense. First off, I don't think it's minute at all. Look outside - 95% of people are staring at a screen in their hands. Cell phones in general and social media in particular have completely taken over the social sphere. Casual conversation on the street or in the checkout line has been replaced with pull out your device and scroll. Online dating is rapidly becoming the default dating method. The examples are endless. Secondly, the Amish don't shun any technology past an arbitrary date. They decide as a community whether or not to introduce a certain technology, depending on its perceived benefits or costs. This strikes me as a rather wise and mature approach, one that the general public would do well to adopt. And finally, statistically, the Amish have far more robust families and birth rates as compared to the general population. So it seems pretty easy to make the argument that their system results in a greater focus on family, even if adopting similar behaviors (without becoming Amish) is theoretically possible.

jcmoscon 7y ago

I remembered about this compressed air car. That's an interesting tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car

cesarb 7y ago

This reminded me of an article I saw some time ago (https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/09/power-from-the-tap-water-motors.html https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/09/power-from-the-tap-w...) about appliances (including but not limited to kitchen ones) powered by water from the tap.

kitd 7y ago
I was wondering what the advantages of compressed air are over water. Given water is an incompressible fluid, I would have thought it was a much more efficient means of driving turbines and other moving equipment.
- ticviking 7y ago
  But the fact that it is incompressible makes it more difficult to use it as a store of energy to be used on demand. One of the advantages of compressed air is you can let a little out of the tank to power one thing for a bit, then a little more to power a different thing, and only need to run the generator when the tank is out of air.
- greedo 7y ago
  An air leak usually doesn't cause damage.

dangus 7y ago

IMO, the Amish/Mennonite or similar groups' systems never made a lot of sense, like many extreme religious orthodoxies. Powering these appliances with compressed air doesn't change the fact that their engineering drawings were done on a computer, assembled in a factory rife with robotics, and delivered on a UPS truck. And that the most convenient method of producing compressed air involves internal combustion or electricity. Nothing in the Bible supports electricity or any other 20th century technology being anything sinful. It's just another extremist group making their own bonkers interpretations of a religious book. I think the Amish are glorified based on their work ethic and nice furniture, but I think the reality of living in that community has all the negatives of an extreme religious cult.

JulianMorrison 7y ago
The point of their approach to technology is to cherry pick that which supports, and does not diminish, their contemplative and social way of life. I don't think they're against computers either, to give an example. They're just against letting them be a temptation to idleness. Obviously they live embedded in a world that doesn't work according to their rules. Everyone who wants to change society does that.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  > I don't think they're against computers either They aren't. There are in fact computers specifically designed and marketed for Amish business work. They're more like a classic Word Processor than what we call a computer.
- neuralRiot 7y ago
  That’s what I find admirable, when you put hard work into something you learn to value things and the work of others.
mdturnerphys 7y ago
From my understanding they do not reject electricity because it's inherently sinful. Their rejection of it comes from desires to maintain a degree of separation from the rest of the world and to continue a tradition of hard work, which are biblically motivated. I think any religious beliefs, from anywhere on the conservative to progressive spectrum, will have aspects that seem illogical to an outsider. On the scale of things, the reasoning for these restrictions doesn't seem too irrational. IMO, it does seem unnecessarily inflammatory to refer to a pacifist group as extreme when that term is usually applied to groups engaged in terrorism, etc. I also find the label of cult too strong, unless you're using it in the formal sense. Look into the tradition of rumspringa [0]--unless you're being cynical it doesn't seem like a cultish practice. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa

JulianMorrison 7y ago

Combined with a wind turbine air compressor as described in the article, that's some serious solarpunk stuff right there.

deleted 7y ago
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teilo 7y ago

My brother, who lives in rural Michigan and is surrounded by Amish, took me to one of their wood shops. These Amish were allowed to run diesel engines, provided they started them with a fly-wheel and clutch system. In this case, the diesel engine was in a shed at the side of the building, and was connected to a drive shaft that, through a series of transfer cases, belt and pulleys, secondary drive shafts, etc., powered everything you can imagine in a professional wood shop: planers, table saws, routers, etc., and a large population of battery-powered hand tools that had been converted to direct drive and were attached to flexible speedometer-like cables. It was extraordinary.

Accujack 7y ago
This is exactly how such shops were powered in the late 1800-early 1900s, before electricity was everywhere. The belt systems (sometimes in large factories there were thousands of machines running) were driven by water power, steam engines, and eventually electric motors. You can still pretty easily buy antique tools with belt inputs, including heavy machine tools like lathes and milling machines.
- aphextim 7y ago
  I just recently saw a steam and gas engine show where they had a ton of still working washing machines and other household amenities that worked off a belt system and mini 1.5-2.5 hp steam engine. They had larger lumber mill type saws and other industrial sized stuff that still worked too. Was pretty crazy seeing vehicles still driving around the fairgrounds that were made so long ago. It was very neat to realize how much our society is more of a throwaway society in terms of the honor in being able to repair/fix your own stuff and make it last for generations. I thought to myself, "There is no way in 100 years a Tesla would still be in working condition like these old steam engine vehicles."
- catalogia 7y ago
  For a few years after the introduction of electric motors they were still designing shops around line shafts with belt drives to every machine, because the electric motors were large and expensive enough that it didn't yet make sense to give each tool its own motor. For instance the USS Olympia (C-6), commissioned in 1895 and now a museum ship in Philadelphia, was electrified but had a (very compact) line shaft machine shop on board.

grawprog 7y ago

I'm not sure I really see the difference between using compressed air powered tools and appliances and electrical ones. All of the hand tools at my work are air powered because the wet environment makes electrical ones dangerous. The air powered tools are also typically more powerful and run at higher rpms and have more horsepower than electrical ones. I'm not sure why the air powered appliances have less torque but air powered grinders and polishers definitely have more power than electic ones, I've used both.

Skunkleton 7y ago
In general, I don't think air powered tools have less torque. Rather, they have less torque at low rpms.
- grawprog 7y ago
  Ah fair enough that makes more sense. The description made it a not quite as clear. I think it's too bad home air compressors tend to be more of a niche/hobbyist thing or situations like the Amish. I honestly never really appreciated the power and versatility of a compressed air system until working in a place that works off of and relies on it.
  - egdod 7y ago
    Home air compressors produce so little compressed air that they generally can’t even keep up with the needs of a small tool at 100% duty cycle.

evgeniysharapov 7y ago

This is getting to the absurd, how does the air get compressed ? Steam engine ?

MisterTea 7y ago

I read an article in a woodworking magazine showing how an amish shop runs its traditionally electric machines on diesel power. A long trench runs part the length of the shop with a shaft supported by bearing blocks. It terminates in an adjacent room housing a diesel engine. A belt system couples the engine to the shaft and air compressor. Along the trench are all the standard machines you'd find in a shop: drill press, planer, sanders, table saw, joiner, etc. Each one had its electric motor removed and retrofitted with an elaborate system of shafts, belts and sheaves which connected to the main shaft in the trench. They turned them on and off using a simple yet clever lever operated belt tensioner. By default the belt had enough slack to allow it to slip on the drive sheave preventing the machine from running. When the lever was pulled, it forced the belt between two tensioning sheaves tightening it which then started the machine. Very simple and clever and all made from wood. Power tools were all air operated and one clever hack they made was a pneumatic wood glue dispenser. It was a 1-2 foot length of 3 or 4 inch PVC pipe, capped at both ends, one end being a threaded port. Plumbed to the top of the tube was an air pressure regulator to lower the pressure to just a few PSI. At the bottom, a hose which ran to a blow gun. You shut the air, opened the cap, filled it with glue, closed it and turned the air on. press the blow gun and now you have a glue gun! Really neat and my father built one for his wood shop. One bonus of using air tools is they are lighter and more rugged than equivalent electric power tools. I've heard claims of 3-4x lifetime so long as they are fed clean, lubricated air. Nowhere near as efficient though as a lot of power is lost as heat in air compression.