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Serious question. In the article it writes "all whilst operating as an independent non-profit organisation releasing open source software.". But this is right

by nickjj 7y ago

Serious question. In the article it writes "all whilst operating as an independent non-profit organisation releasing open source software.". But this is right before talking about generating $5,000,000 in customer revenue and giving away 0% of the business. So when you're a non-profit, what happens with that $5,000,000 of business generated revenue? How much of a salary do you give yourself? Can you even give yourself a salary if you label yourself as a non-profit? What makes paying yourself a salary as a non-profit different than a regular business? Whenever I read sentences like that, it makes me very suspicious. Whenever I see a Ghost blog post talking about the product it always feels like they try to bring maximum attention to being a non-profit in a way that is supposed to be less evil than a profitable business but then you talk about millions of dollars of "business revenue" and I never understood how it works.

83457 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization "A nonprofit organization, also known as a non-business entity,[1] not-for-profit organization,[2] or nonprofit institution,[3] is dedicated to furthering a particular social cause or advocating for a shared point of view. In economic terms, it is an organization that uses its surplus of the revenues to further achieve its ultimate objective, rather than distributing its income to the organization's shareholders, leaders, or members. Nonprofits are tax exempt or charitable, meaning they do not pay income tax on the money that they receive for their organization. They can operate in religious, scientific, research, or educational settings.""
- nickjj 7y ago
  That's still very confusing. Surplus sounds like anything beyond hosting costs to run the service, but the hosting costs is likely no where near 5 million dollars so a majority of it is surplus. Does that mean no one gets a salary or is a salary part of the costs to run the business instead of being a "member"? If salaries are included who dictates what the income tax exempt salary is? I'm not trolling either. What you're describing sounds like a way to run a business where you can avoid paying income tax while still getting a salary because realistically I doubt the creator of Ghost is living in a homeless shelter and working off public library computers.
  - KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago
    Non profit means no payday for the shareholders. Yes there's a salary and it can be decent but there'll never be a billion dollar ipo or buyout. The major benefit to running a business is not getting the salary but from the wealth created from OWNING the business. The capitalist class doesn't get to benefit in this instance, only the workers.
  - bovermyer 7y ago
    Salaries at a nonprofit can be tiny or enormous, depending on how the organization operates. My guess is that Ghost pays competitive salaries to its rank and file, a generous salary to its CEO, and uses the rest of the money to either fund exploratory work, educate its target industry, and/or lobby politicians. That's how most nonprofits appear to work.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - velcrovan 7y ago
    Some Business 101 for you: Salaries are separate from profits. Salaries are a cost to the business just like rent and hosting costs. Profits come after all the costs. (Salaries are also taxed as personal income just like at any other business.) The $5m over 6 years is $833k in revenue per year. Not a lot, and salaries/benefits probably take up the biggest part of that, leaving very little profit. Which is the way it should be everywhere in my opinion. I applied to work at Ghost a while back and still would love to work for them. Not only do they get salaries, they have amazing benefits (by US standards). Being a non-profit means two things: a) profits are reinvested in the business rather than distributed to owners, and b) Ghost isn’t, and can never be, an acquisition target by other companies or investors. That kind of stability is a huge appeal for me, both as a user and a worker.
    - akerl_ 7y ago
      I feel like this comment would be totally complete without the first 5 words, which serve to make it condescending. Part of the goal of this community is for its participants to learn things they don’t know; the tone implied by the intro to your comment makes it seem offensive that somebody wouldn’t realize US non-profit status still allows for salaries and benefits for their staff. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
nemothekid 7y ago
>what happens with that $5,000,000 of business generated revenue? You operate it like a normal business and pay competitive salaries? I don't get why people working at non-profit should work for free. $5M/6 years is roughly 7 people making 120k/yr.
Aeolun 7y ago
Just because it’s ‘not-for-profit’ does not mean the employees can live on air. That would definitely be nice, but in practice they still need to be paid a salary. But all of the profits go right back into the company (e.g. no profit for the founders), which is a powerful thing.
patrickthebold 7y ago
Typically a for profit business has three main stakeholders: Customers, Employees, and Share Holders. And they have to balance things like salaries, price of the product, dividends to share holders (though no one really pays dividends anymore, but that's beside the point.) A non-profit skips the share holders, and is more like a direct exchange of cash for services better two parties, without a third party taking a cut. Actually, usually there are taxes, so the government is going to take a cut. So share holders kind of end up acting as a tax, a tax on not having capital, but instead of the money going to the government, it goes to people who happen to have capital. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

by nickjj 7y ago

83457 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization "A nonprofit organization, also known as a non-business entity,[1] not-for-profit organization,[2] or nonprofit institution,[3] is dedicated to furthering a particular social cause or advocating for a shared point of view. In economic terms, it is an organization that uses its surplus of the revenues to further achieve its ultimate objective, rather than distributing its income to the organization's shareholders, leaders, or members. Nonprofits are tax exempt or charitable, meaning they do not pay income tax on the money that they receive for their organization. They can operate in religious, scientific, research, or educational settings.""

nickjj 7y ago
That's still very confusing. Surplus sounds like anything beyond hosting costs to run the service, but the hosting costs is likely no where near 5 million dollars so a majority of it is surplus. Does that mean no one gets a salary or is a salary part of the costs to run the business instead of being a "member"? If salaries are included who dictates what the income tax exempt salary is? I'm not trolling either. What you're describing sounds like a way to run a business where you can avoid paying income tax while still getting a salary because realistically I doubt the creator of Ghost is living in a homeless shelter and working off public library computers.
- KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago
  Non profit means no payday for the shareholders. Yes there's a salary and it can be decent but there'll never be a billion dollar ipo or buyout. The major benefit to running a business is not getting the salary but from the wealth created from OWNING the business. The capitalist class doesn't get to benefit in this instance, only the workers.
- bovermyer 7y ago
  Salaries at a nonprofit can be tiny or enormous, depending on how the organization operates. My guess is that Ghost pays competitive salaries to its rank and file, a generous salary to its CEO, and uses the rest of the money to either fund exploratory work, educate its target industry, and/or lobby politicians. That's how most nonprofits appear to work.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- velcrovan 7y ago
  Some Business 101 for you: Salaries are separate from profits. Salaries are a cost to the business just like rent and hosting costs. Profits come after all the costs. (Salaries are also taxed as personal income just like at any other business.) The $5m over 6 years is $833k in revenue per year. Not a lot, and salaries/benefits probably take up the biggest part of that, leaving very little profit. Which is the way it should be everywhere in my opinion. I applied to work at Ghost a while back and still would love to work for them. Not only do they get salaries, they have amazing benefits (by US standards). Being a non-profit means two things: a) profits are reinvested in the business rather than distributed to owners, and b) Ghost isn’t, and can never be, an acquisition target by other companies or investors. That kind of stability is a huge appeal for me, both as a user and a worker.
  - akerl_ 7y ago
    I feel like this comment would be totally complete without the first 5 words, which serve to make it condescending. Part of the goal of this community is for its participants to learn things they don’t know; the tone implied by the intro to your comment makes it seem offensive that somebody wouldn’t realize US non-profit status still allows for salaries and benefits for their staff. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/

nemothekid 7y ago

>what happens with that $5,000,000 of business generated revenue? You operate it like a normal business and pay competitive salaries? I don't get why people working at non-profit should work for free. $5M/6 years is roughly 7 people making 120k/yr.

Aeolun 7y ago

Just because it’s ‘not-for-profit’ does not mean the employees can live on air. That would definitely be nice, but in practice they still need to be paid a salary. But all of the profits go right back into the company (e.g. no profit for the founders), which is a powerful thing.

patrickthebold 7y ago

Typically a for profit business has three main stakeholders: Customers, Employees, and Share Holders. And they have to balance things like salaries, price of the product, dividends to share holders (though no one really pays dividends anymore, but that's beside the point.) A non-profit skips the share holders, and is more like a direct exchange of cash for services better two parties, without a third party taking a cut. Actually, usually there are taxes, so the government is going to take a cut. So share holders kind of end up acting as a tax, a tax on not having capital, but instead of the money going to the government, it goes to people who happen to have capital. Not that there's anything wrong with that.