20 ms·

Disney+ streaming uses draconian DRM

426 points by toma1k 7y ago

chrisseaton 7y ago
Disney's existing streaming service, Disney Life, is using Silverlight, so anything's better than that.
- jonplackett 7y ago
  This explains a lot. But even the apps which can’t be, are truly awful.
cryptoz 7y ago
Is Disney+ expected to work fully before launch date? Isn't in 'testing' right now as described by the author? Why is everything expected to be perfect while still in testing? From this text, it sounds like Disney is actively working on the issue. The product has not launched yet. I'm not sure what the problem is. Aside from a faster initial customer support response (for a product that isn't even out!) would could Disney have done differently here? I understand that Disney+ may not launch with (or ever have) Linux support, and that would suck. But no evidence of that is presented here. And the author expects a resolution for a complex issue for a pre-launch product in testing phase from a major corporation within days? That seems aggressive and unrealistic timeline to expect a fix. Edit: The author writes "Their so called help-center does not even know about "Error Code 83"" (with some attitude and prejudice, I'll note); but also writes that Disney responded with "We are familiar with Error 83.". Confusing.
- jchw 7y ago
  The thing is, as they cover in their post, there’s nothing to “fix.” It isn’t broken. The error is actually that it refuses to run without a higher security level than many platforms support.
  - Mindwipe 7y ago
    It runs in Chrome on Windows, which also only supports Widevine Level 3, same as Linux. The post is just... not very good and full of factual errors.
    - jchw 7y ago
      This may very well be true, I’d like to note I don’t claim to know anything about how Widevine works. Of course, this is a very different criticism of the post.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  You're ignoring the analysis that Disney+ seems to be blocking use entirely at the lower "security level" assessed by Widevine. It would not take significant time or effort for them to change the threshold value if it were something they considered broken. It seems prudent at this point to avoid becoming a paying customer until they address it, if you care about this sort of thing.
  - cryptoz 7y ago
    > It would not take significant time or effort for them to change the threshold value if it were something they considered broken. Do you have reason to believe this? To me that sounds like a complicated change with significant potential business impacts. Have they signed contracts already where this kind of security is ambiguous? Does changing the flag actually solve the issues on all devices or do other issues present, since they have been untested? Testing must happen post-change, I would imagine. The issue still sounds complex to me. I use Linux and I want Disney+ to support it, obviously. But I don't see Disney as being in the wrong here (yet) - they're potentially just working on the issue before release. We'll see, I guess.
  - Mindwipe 7y ago
    > You're ignoring the analysis that Disney+ seems to be blocking use entirely at the lower "security level" assessed by Widevine. That's because it's wrong. Chrome on Windows only supports Level 3 too, and it works there. (The article incorrectly assumes Level 1 is lower than Level 3. Level 1 is the highest security level, not the lowest.)
crispinb 7y ago
> instead send them a message letting them know that you are boycotting them until they get their Linux support in order A boycott from all 12 desktop Linux users. That'll show 'em.
- OrgNet 7y ago
  it's worth a try, if you care (I pay for Netflix and I don't use it because it's easier to download the content somewhere else)... my Sharp "smart" TV will even stop supporting Netflix in December because they say the old software will no longer be compatible.
- fortran77 7y ago
  There are dozens of us!
pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
It doesn't work at all unless you pay them....... and I never planned to.
Causality1 7y ago
>In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions, but otherwise everything works fine, I don't understand the point of this type of thinking. Video DRM isn't like Denuvo where it can actually get you a few days or even weeks before any pirated versions exist on the web. If it can be watched by a human pirates will copy it, even if they have to rip it straight from the display controller of their monitors. I have never once had the slightest difficulty or delay in finding pirated versions of video content on Day 1 or even before, and at the highest-produced quality and resolution. Why do providers think making life hard only on paying customers is a good thing?
- jedberg 7y ago
  They do this because Hollywood doesn't understand technology. Netflix understands technology and understands this stops no one, but they are licensing the content from Hollywood, who thinks this behavior actually helps. Netflix is forced to play ball with them. Your next question is usually, "Why doesn't the Netflix original content not have these shenanigans then?". The answer is that most Netflix content is still made by Hollywood studios, so they have the same restrictions. Netflix is only a distributor in most cases, not the content creator. The other answer is that it is a lot more complicated in the software and for testing to say "can this content be played at 4K based on the publisher?" than to just say, "DRM level 1 means no 4K".
  - jyrkesh 7y ago
    Was waiting for this reply, happy to see it come from the mighty jedberg. For those that don't know, click on his bio, he's definitely 100% spot on here
- simias 7y ago
  It's like asking why they bother paying customers with anti-piracy ads at the beginning of legally-purchased DVDs when obviously pirates are going to trim them. It's not supposed to be reasonable. It's design by committee, it's bikeshedding, it's weird clauses in complex contracts etc... From the right's holder point of view your reasoning doesn't make sense, instead it goes the other way: if people buy our product anyway when we do it that way, why change it? Do you think that when NBC licenses The Office to Netflix they care about Linux users not being able to stream it in 1080p? Do you think Netflix is willing to spend time and money to fight for the tiny portion of the user base who both watches Netflix on Linux and cares for high-def?
mindcrime 7y ago
Interesting. I'd been toying with signing up for Disney+ at some point (when does it even go live officially?). But if this is the case, I absolutely won't be getting a subscription as I use Linux as my desktop OS. "No Linux support" == "no customer"
- reaperducer 7y ago
  While I agree with the philosophy that Disney should try to support as many platforms as possible, I really don't think it will notice the Linux market is missing. Cost of building and maintaining a Linux client > Potential revenue from Linux users.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    Cost of building a Linux client should be zero. It's not because they want to have their proprietary DRM/spyware restricting what you can do. Ever heard the phrase "piracy is a better service", Disney? Edit: Cost should be negligible. You should build for web/browser standards, not the OS.
    - debaserab2 7y ago
      Why would the cost of supporting an additional platform ever be zero?
      - cameronbrown 7y ago
        See edit.
      - yk 7y ago
        They just need to not develop drm.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        That implies they could not offer the service due to the legal entanglements of offering films owned by multiple parties without copyright protection, so it's equivalent to saying "They just need to not exist." Understandably, they've chosen an alternative.
cloudking 7y ago
I'm pretty sure Disney is optimizing for the majority of their audience who use Windows, OSX, iOS etc, not developers/hackers who run desktop Linux. I'm curious about Android though.
- dchest 7y ago
  Optimizing how?
  - x13 7y ago
    Disney is focusing on traditional popular consumer markets. Linux doesn't have a large enough number of users for their consumer-focused video streaming service at this time. They'll probably move down-market after nailing the experience on the first few platforms. side note - I love the number of comments about piracy as the other option, as if Disney is reading this page - or cares much about a small market (linux consumer-users)
  - adrianmonk 7y ago
    Focusing their attention on the platforms that are most critical at first launch, I'd guess.
- bobbyi_settv 7y ago
  Don't the majority of people still watch TV on their TV? I don't care if their service runs on my computer because it's confirmed they will have an app for PS4, which is how I already watch Netflix and Hulu. I know there are people out there who refuse to run any non-free software anywhere, and it is a good thing they exist, but I would guess that the majority of people who have Linux on their laptop are willing to use a Fire Stick or their TV's builtin OS or whatever to stream TV and movies.
- mcv 7y ago
  It works fine on Android.
brogrammernot 7y ago
I can’t imagine the vast majority of their customer base uses Linux, and was likely left out as a fast follow as it isn’t worth being a supported system until they can see it gains traction.
RandomGuyDTB 7y ago
I was planning on subscribing instead to a VPN that supports peer-to-peer torrenting.
yumario 7y ago
AmazonPrime video does not delivers HD content in Linux... I tried everything switching browsers, changing User agent, wine, running virtual box. I seems some type of DRM is not implemented yet in Linux. Netflix is the same I think. I happily pirate content now.
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  Publishers often refer to copying they don’t approve of as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that it is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. Based on such propaganda, they have procured laws in most of the world to forbid copying in most (or sometimes all) circumstances. (They are still pressuring to make these prohibitions more complete.) If you don’t believe that copying not approved by the publisher is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it.
  - Buge 7y ago
    On the other hand, sometimes "pirate" seems to have a positive connotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY And interestingly the 3rd highest comment on that video currently is about Disney+.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Anecdotally, that song is quite popular among software pirates.
- shakna 7y ago
  You can get 1080p streams from Netflix on Linux (for 99% of their collection) by switching your user agent to ChromeOS. Their check is just: a = /CrOS/.test(a.userAgent); this.Fma = this.Aw = q.Gu.PV; this.Qm = [x.$l.nV]; this.oo = [x.V.vA, x.V.wA]; a && this.oo.push(x.V.TH); It very much is _not_ "DRM not yet implemented". Both Prime and Netflix are fully capable of streaming their highest quality under Linux - if you have the driver support. Unfortunately they have a bunch of hacky stuff trying to prevent it, rather than allowing the user's browser is to make the decision.
Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
I believe it morally justifies downloading Disney+ content via torrents.
- newfangle 7y ago
  Tell yourself whatever you like
- egypturnash 7y ago
  Oh come on, “Disney won’t stream their stuff to my niche OS” is not a reason to get their stuff without paying. You can wait for a DVD, you can scrounge a used device that will run their DRM, or you can decide you hate all DRM and boycott their stuff until the unlikely event they offer a copyable version. Lots of people work hard making this shit, and they have bills to pay, these things don’t just spring fully-formed onto a hard drive like Athena from Zeus’ skull. Maybe there’s some morality going on if you buy a ton of merch for what you watch. Maybe. Or you can reward the companies that do support your niche OS by paying for their stuff, that’s pretty unassailable. I am far from without sin in this area, but I don’t try to make excuses. Watching stuff without paying its asking price is stealing.
  - prepend 7y ago
    Niche or not “Disney won’t sell me content I want to buy” seems like a tough position for Disney to argue past. This was the argument back in the days when movies wouldn’t be released in many countries as the market is too small. What do you expect potential customers to do? Should they buy new computers? Not watch Disney stuff? I think I would expect the latter, but if they aren’t Disney’s customer then them pirating isn’t losing Disney any business.
    - zokier 7y ago
      > Niche or not “Disney won’t sell me content I want to buy” seems like a tough position for Disney to argue past. I feel that is such an entitled attitude. Watching Disney+ is hardly some inalienable human right nor essential for survival. Why would anyone think their right to use a service, and cosume content, overrides Disneys well-established ownership?
vitus 7y ago
Nit, since this confused me when I was looking for more context: for whatever reason, Widevine security levels are ordered in decreasing security (whereas the article has them backwards). Widevine on Linux only supports L3, which means that there's no guarantee that any processing is done inside the CPU's trusted execution environment. Which, uh, reads as "no security guarantee" to me.
- swiley 7y ago
  I’m not really ok with other people’s code running on my Secure Enclave. BitTorrented video has no security guarantee either.
  - Mindwipe 7y ago
    > I’m not really ok with other people’s code running on my Secure Enclave. All the code that runs on your secure enclave is other people's code.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Depends on the device, of course.
  - vitus 7y ago
    The security guarantee here isn't for the user, though. It's more of a placebo effect for the content producers.
    - bobajeff 7y ago
      That's the funny thing about this whole thing they keep using terms like security when what they're really talking about is anti-saving/copying/skipping/fastforwarding and region blocking.
  - yaur 7y ago
    In order to get the highest level protection in widevine (the numbering is confusing) the decryption code and secure media path all need to be provisioned by the OEM. In otherwords the “other people” running code in the Secure Enclave is the device manufacturer. If you don’t trust them you are already sunk.
Vaslo 7y ago
“First of all, as always my opinions are my own, not those of my employer.” Why do you need to write that? It’s a benign article and more so it’s about as protective as the useless “Store is not responsible for carts that damage your car” signs.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Companies react in strange ways. I recall a forum post a few years back about an issue with a backup solution. The poster ran into a problem and shared it in response to a question. Someone from the storage company went apeshit, figured out who the poster was, and met with the CIO of the guys employee to get him to remove the post.
  - gtirloni 7y ago
    I really hope he's swimming in lawsuit money.
- arthens 7y ago
  Years ago I ranted on Twitter about Bitium being unreliable. There was no mention of the company I work for on my twitter account, but I had my full name visible. They looked up my name in their database, found my account, and made a phone call to my CTO to ask if there was a problem with their product. The tone of the call was friendly (they didn't try to get me fired or anything), but I still got some heat because my CTO was pissed (until I pointed out that it was a personal account without any work reference). So yeah... I'm not surprised people feel the need to add disclaimers to what they write online.
xellisx 7y ago
Is anyone really surprised?
profmonocle 7y ago
> desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions And yet 4K webrips of recent Netflix shows are readily available on torrent sites. I don't understand who these higher levels of DRM are trying to target. They obviously don't stop the serious pirates from ripping and sharing the content with everyone. Yet the lower levels are "good enough" to stop average users from trivially downloading and keeping the file, like you might do with an plain, embedded MP4 file.
- lousken 7y ago
  Obviously, the point is to screw up the customers - every DRM can and will be broken at some point
- nikanj 7y ago
  Device manufacturers. Play nice, or we won't grant you the magic pixie dust to play our content in glorious 4k.
  - baddox 7y ago
    To clarify, this isn’t just a cynical comment. It’s actually why digital content producers use DRM. Generally speaking, they’re not idiots, they know it will have little effect on determined pirates and will cause some hassle for some legitimate customers. The point really is so that the digital content producers can maintain control over the providers of computer hardware and distribution channels. Here’s an old article claiming to be a big revelation, but it’s pretty much common sense and has been fairly well recognized for much longer than that: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-engineer-drm-has-nothing-to-do-with-piracy/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-engineer-drm-has-nothin...
    - narrator 7y ago
      So the purpose of DRM is to thwart the first sale doctrine?
      - 7y ago
SomeOtherThrow 7y ago
Is there any other future?
chodeboy 7y ago
From the headline I was kind of excited. Like disney using some freak tech stack on their servers like freebsd or windows. But it is just DRM incompatibilities with linux. Kind of a bummer. On a side note: prime also stopped working for me on mint+firefox. Still works with chrome though.
tolmasky 7y ago
So, at least from my basic research, the levels seem to be switched in this post: L1 is the highest level, not L3. So if Android and Desktop Linuxes support L1, that should not be an issue. Perhaps its is a minor error and he meant L3. That being said, is it possible for the user to have their Desktop Linux support L1 somehow? Android is a Linux that clearly support L1 and can show these formats (I imagine), so can that be accomplished on another Linux?
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  Android depends on the hardware, but generally speaking Western devices support Widevine Level 1 and its implemented in hardware. Desktop Linux will only ever support Level 3. But Chrome on Windows also supports Level 3, and Disney+ works in Chrome, there, so the article isn't correct.
  - yumario 7y ago
    Why do say that Linux will only ever support Level 3? Is there some fundamental limitation?
    - Mindwipe 7y ago
      There's the fundamental limitation that the odds of any maintainer rewriting the entire graphics pipleine to secure the video path from the user for DRM on Linux is roughly zero.
      - londons_explore 7y ago
        A corporate sponsor might rewrite it... Chrome OS did it after all... Probably wouldn't get merged into mainline Linux tho due to all the DRM opposition
    - the_pwner224 7y ago
      Probably because MS and Apple bend over for producers and put special code in their OS for DRM. You can google for it but here's an example: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wmformat/microsoft-secure-audio-path--deprecated https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wmformat/micr... This is the same reason that only some Android devices support higher levels of Widevine; Samsung will add code to their OS that allows video/audio to be processed through inaccessible areas of the processor/GPU. If you try to take a screenshot it will just show up as a black screen (same on Windows with the Nextflix app IIRC). Cheapo Chinese Androids and even cheap Androids that you can buy in the US will not do this so they can't play high-res video on Netflix, even if they have a high-res screen. On Linux this special path is not implemented; anything can see what's going on with the graphics or audio pipeline and record from it.
jonplackett 7y ago
Anyone who’s used Disney’s existing streaming service will, I am certain, tell you it it truly awful. It’s incredibly slow, saddles you with massive downloads regardless of device or connection type. The app sometimes just doesn’t open at all. I really hope whatever they’re making is not based on what they are doing currently.
- hellofunk 7y ago
  This whole thread has been rather surprising to me, we've been enjoying Disney+ for a few weeks now and I've been amazed how wonderful all the content is. I've never seen any errors or the issue described in this article (I'm on Mac). The only thing about the UI that I miss is that it does not respond to keyboard shortcuts (like pressing spacebar to start and stop the playback). But overall, I've been very happy and impressed with the service.
  - alt219 7y ago
    Are you from the future? In all seriousness though, how are you able to enjoy Disney+ currently? It has yet to launch. According to the Disney+ website it launches in just under 23 days from now.[0] 0. https://disneyplus.com https://disneyplus.com
    - mholt 7y ago
      It was released early in some regions like the Netherlands for testing and promotional purposes.
      - alt219 7y ago
        Thanks, I of course didn’t read the article before asking my question. Glad to hear it works well so far. Looking forward to it when it goes live. Cheers!
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - 7y ago
pcr910303 7y ago
While I understand why Disney is getting much hate here at HN, I don’t think Disney really deserves it; Let’s face it, Linux is a very niche OS. Just flipping on a switch for level 3 on Linux also takes money, as then they have to check whether it’s working at every deploy, provide customer support for them, etc, ... And there’s people in this thread that DRMs are pointless... but IMO DRMs aren’t useless, it works as a small barrier for users to not copy. Think about two hypothetical people A and B for example; When DRM exists: A talking to B “Hey, I’ve watched the movie XXX from Disney+ last night, you really should subscribe to see that great movie!” When DRM doesn’t exist: A talking to B “Hey, I’ve watched the movie XXX from Disney+ last night, you really should see it. I’ll give the movie file in my USB tomorrow.” I don’t like the company-tired nature of DRMs, but not much of a solution exists, esp when DRM was rejected by the web standards.
- manicdee 7y ago
  When DRM exists: “Hey I watched this movie that hasn’t been released from Disney last night, have a copy and you can enjoy it too!” The only thing preventing this stream working on Linux is someone paying Disney the licence fees. It’s nothing to do with control of end product quality. Disney does not provide support for customer technical problems.
  - pcr910303 7y ago
    > When DRM exists: “Hey I watched this movie that hasn’t been released from Disney last night, have a copy and you can enjoy it too!” Only if the value of time consumed trying to break the DRM is lower than the Disney+ subscription fee. And I think for the majority, the Disney+ subscription fee will be lower.
    - manicdee 7y ago
      For a lot of people I know, there’s more cost than just the subscription fee, there’s also buying equipment to support that streaming service. It’s like people recommending I upgrade to Windows 10 when the machine I am using is barely capable of running Windows 7. It’s not just $10 a month, it’s also $1000 for a new computer to watch it on. Or a new TV which means buying new furniture since the current cabinet can’t hold anything larger than 30” and the smallest TV I can buy is 44”. Then there’s streaming requiring 25Mbps when my Australian NBN struggles at 12Mbps.
dewey 7y ago
From their response it sounds like they are on it, it's still 3 weeks until the official launch in the bigger markets and it's only live in NL as a test market right now. To me it sounds like a normal bug for an edge case. It's made out to be much more than it actually is with this clickbait title.
briandear 7y ago
Ironically, scrolling for the article is broken on iOS Safari.
voldacar 7y ago
Could this be fixed by disassembling the widevine .so/.dll and altering the function that returns the "security level" so that it always returns the highest level?
- Avery3R 7y ago
  The highest security level involves hardware keys. You'd have to get a hardware device that supports it and extract the keys somehow
  - voldacar 7y ago
    So what hardware device is it interacting with when it is able to run properly on windows and mac? Is there a reason Linux couldn't interact with this hardware in the same way?
    - wahern 7y ago
      Maybe SGX? SGX requires kernel support, which Linux currently lacks.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      There isn't any, hence why those devices aren't certified to the Widevine Level 1.
- zelly 7y ago
  As I understand it, the DRM authenticates the physical monitor/TV with a key on the hardware. That part is uncrackable because authentication is done on Netflix-side. But as for whatever is rejecting Linux but allowing Windows/macOS, that has to be completely in-software. I think you are right--this could be bypassed by changing a register value somewhere. This sounds like a fun project.
  - voldacar 7y ago
    >But as for whatever is rejecting Linux but allowing Windows/macOS, that has to be completely in-software. Yeah that's more of what i was referring to.
theninja 7y ago
Content publishers sometimes demand certain DRM features in order to license their content. For example, they can dictate that only X devices can watch content Y. They can also demand restriction to how content is stored on devices etc. So until the content publishers change their restrictions, DRM will be there and will be annoying to customers :(
- jonny_eh 7y ago
  Disney owns all the content they're streaming.
danmg 7y ago
Are we forgiving Walt Disney for having 'trouble makers' blacklisted and investigated by HUAC? I'm not. Even if they made something besides pablum, I wouldn't be interested.
antisthenes 7y ago
Back to piracy it is, I guess.
- ahje 7y ago
  But _why_? Is there something Disney has that everyone _needs_ to have? My first reaction to stuff like this is simply that I can't be bothered -- if Disney don't want me as a customer then I'll simply ignore their service. This is a serious question; I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the content of the current Disney IP portfolio and I'm not really a consumer of mainstream media.
zeruch 7y ago
Having had Disney as a client in a past life, I always assume they will go for the most draconian, despotic IP control imaginable...as a starting point. They are cultural not wired any other way, and cannot be mollified. They are a horrible company.
unangst 7y ago
I like to think that if Disney+ doesn’t work on Chromebooks, the “freshmen hivemind” (aka all of the freshmen) will solve it by complaining to Disney relentlessly. Seriously, not sure if Disney has thought through the market penetration Chromebooks have in the K-12 market AND the correlation between those students/districts and discretionary income for “yet another streaming service.”
filmgirlcw 7y ago
The hand-wringing in this thread is sort of amazing — especially since 99% of the people complaining weren’t going to subscribe anyway. Look, if there are indeed issues with actual ChromeOS (and not the Chromium variants — but the full mostly-proprietary Google procured ChromeOS), I fully expect that to be fixed — you might not get 4K support (but there are what, 3 Chromebooks with 4K screens? Plus, most streaming services do not support 4K on web browsers period - even Netflix only offers it on Windows. Mac users with 5K screens have to use Boot Camp (and even that isn’t a guarantee) to watch 4K in the browser) — but if Chromebooks are an issue, I fully expect that to be fixed. As odious as DRM is, I just can’t bring myself to be surprised or overwrought by its existence. Yes, it is largely more about appearances than actually solving piracy — but those appearances matter. The big thing that has pulled people away from piracy is convenience. And with the exception of Linux on the desktop users (a population that is small and only getting smaller, as the main distros don’t even care about the desktop or non-server users anymore), Disney+ seems to offer that. The people that pirate because of DRM would have pirated anyway. I pay and subscribe to more content than 99.99% of the population — but I also download whatever I can’t get from an online service and I feel zero guilt and make zero justifications for my choices. And that’ll remain true for Disney+ — even if there wasn’t a DRM scheme at all (which just isn’t ever going to happen). DRM sucks, sure, but are we really surprised? And I’m sorry, but I’m not ready to boycott a streaming service with tons of content because it doesn’t support Linux in the desktop.
- thayne 7y ago
  I probably would pay for it if it had linux support. But since it doesn't, I won't. Every device in my household is either linux or Android, and I primarily stream from desktop linux. If disney+ doesn't work on that there is no rason for me to pay for it.
andrepd 7y ago
>Widevine has 3 security levels and many devices, including desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions, but otherwise everything works fine, which is a balance between DRM and usability. This reminds me of my very short foray into streaming services. I purchased a month of Netflix, or rather I got their 1 month trial, and opened the website to watch something. First it didn't open on Firefox, and they told me to install Chrom(ium). I didn't like it, but went away and `apt install`ed Chromium. Then it blocked my account because I was using a VPN. I liked this even less (I gave it a credit card number, so they know I'm not a bot or something using a VPN to hide traffic), but I still disabled my VPN. Mind that these two steps already cost me 45 minutes of browsing through FAQs and forums to figure out. Then I finally open something, after installing proprietary software, a new browser, and disabling my privacy-protecting VPN. I'm presented with a video playing in glorious 1280x720 resolution. I just laughed to myself, closed the tab, and opened thepiratebay.org. So let me get this straight. I'm paying for a service and I get headaches, restrictions upon restrictions, and mandatory malware, all for the privilege of watching gimped resolution content? Whereas if I went on piratebay I could get a 4K mkv file I can watch anywhere I want, no internet and no software required? You can fuck right off. Strikes me as odd how anyone can describing paying for a shit service as "a balance between DRM and usability".
- jowsie 7y ago
  You're clearly not representative of the average Netflix customer.
- phist_mcgee 7y ago
  Well look at it from Netflix's perspective. You are in no way an indicative normal customer. They don't support certain browsers, because there is no need to. Privacy hiding VPNs are used to evade content locking as part of Netflix's business models/licensing agreements, so why would they allow your privacy hiding vpn? I'm not agreeing that they should do these things, but you are approaching a service from a very standpoint, and I can understand why your experience is less than optimal. Being a ubuntu/debian user you must have encountered this before righ ;)
joshspankit 7y ago
Is anyone surprised that Disney would DRM in draconian ways?
BooneJS 7y ago
MLB Advanced Media was created to stream baseball games for MLB.tv. They did such a great job that other sports networks, ESPN, and even HBO have licensed their technology to successfully roll out streaming and handle the GoT bandwidth crush. I'm looking forward to Disney+, and it's a shame that in 2019 a company as large as Disney with a back catalog and list of properties as massive as Disney can't simply step off the starting blocks with technology that lets them focus on the stories. The only stories I've read lately about the service is about the technology...
dmitrygr 7y ago
As always, the pirate bay offers a DRM free alternative. Maybe one day the media companies will learn that the one thing consumers cannot stand is being inconvenienced, even slightly. As long as their solution provides less value than pirating, or is a bigger pain in the ass than pirating, they will lose. Unfortunately for them, pirating has become so easy, that unless they become like iTunes, they are dead. Just a matter of time.
- city41 7y ago
  I think you greatly overestimate how many people pirate content.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
matheusmoreira 7y ago
> {"errors":[{"code":"platform-verification-failed","description":"Platform verification status incompatible with security level"}]} Any information about this "platform verification"? What exactly are they verifying and how?
ru999gol 7y ago
While some streaming services might work with Linux, almost all will not show HD or better quality. Just torrent everything, its so much easier, this DRM clusterfuck just gives you less reason to feel bad about it.
snr 7y ago
This is a naive question but I've always wondered, what motivates people who distribute pirated content for free? I get why someone would consume pirated content but why would someone take the risk of publishing pirated content? Is it the ad traffic that the publishers get?
- Sendotsh 7y ago
  Easiest way to think of it is as a competitive hobby. Groups compete to release stuff fastest for cred. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez_scene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez_scene
- h4waii 7y ago
  To some, it's a game, it's a challenge, and it comes with recognition and/or reward -- potentially in the way of private services or paid requests. Or, as the quote goes, "some men just want to watch the world burn", whichever world they deem unworthy of existing.
fredthomsen 7y ago
I see a future where media consumption via general purpose computing platforms is dead and only special super locked down devices can only play certain media. Seems like Disney+ will start us down that road
NoblePublius 7y ago
You would think Disney would want to support chromeOS because of its widespread use in schools
dudus 7y ago
Everyone here freaking out about DRM and how they think they're entitled to free pirate it if Disney don't offer the format they want. While I'm just looking at all my TV's that support casting from my phone by default. Who even watches movies on their computer anyway. Your TV will support it natively if not right away just buy a Chromecast or Roku and be done with it. There are worse things to freak out about.
- m3adow 7y ago
  > Who even watches movies on their computer anyway. I do for example. I don't own a TV, my beamer is directly connected to my PC. Just because your use case is covered doesn't mean everyones is. > Your TV will support it natively if not right away just buy a Chromecast or Roku and be done with it. "If it doesn't work for you, just buy new hardware." - I'd call that entitled. I prefer to just don't subscribe to a service forcing me to buy additional hardware due to customer unfriendly DRM.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  I have an HTPC. It works very well. Any other solution would involve compromises that aren't acceptable to me.
- diminoten 7y ago
  I've never understood the pirate mentality as anything other than raging entitlement. If I have ever pirated anything, I certainly didn't do so out of any sense of righteousness, I'd have done it out of greed. No reason to dress it up like I'm some kind of hero.
- cryptozeus 7y ago
  I was surprised as well to find out that many people here still watch the content on laptop. Everyone’s case is different but if you are going to watch starwars hd then might as well get a nice hd tv and forgot about the laptop.
mastrsushi 7y ago
> Disney+ OTOH seems to have the drm features kranked up to maximum draconian settings Is this likely for legal reasons then? Maybe Disney doesn't want OS's outside of the main consumer audience to have the ability to stream. Linux could be feared for capturing streaming data and scraping sites. It's a lot more customizable of an OS. Sort of like when Sony dropped Yellow Dog Linux on PS3. What other non Linux devices are having this problem?
p2t2p 7y ago
I’m a simple man, you treat me like a thief, I behave like one, I’m not paying for single DRMed video, I pirate it. I do pay for music though. On bandcamp.
ReptileMan 7y ago
Torrent sites use no DRM and the speeds are higher.
mcv 7y ago
I do care about Linux, but I'm not using it to watch Disney+. I stream from my Android phone to Chromecast, which works great the first time. After a while the phone seems to lose track of the fact that it's casting and I can't stop it or start a different movie.
t0ddbonzalez 7y ago
There won't be much of an overlap on the Venn diagram of Fedora users and Disney+ subscribers. Raise a hand if you're shocked that Disney would use the highest level of DRM possible, given their history of guarding their intellectual property...
cryptozeus 7y ago
I don’t get the article, seems a bit of premature noise. They said they are aware of it and working on it. Just because it has not been fixed in 1 month during trial period does not mean they will not fix this. Side note I had a recruiter call from disney + team to work on their app for windows. They are building this thing in wpf. I passed.
LeoNatan25 7y ago
Use torrents, those are DRM free, easy to use and often just as good if not higher quality than streaming services.
xs83 7y ago
Well unfortunately for Disney, my main TV box is an Ubuntu NUC so I will definitely not be subscribing to it. Just like when the NHL did the same - when there were better piracy options than your paid for service (which I might add I had no problem paying for for years) - you want to ask questions.

426 points by toma1k 7y ago

chrisseaton 7y ago

Disney's existing streaming service, Disney Life, is using Silverlight, so anything's better than that.

jonplackett 7y ago
This explains a lot. But even the apps which can’t be, are truly awful.

cryptoz 7y ago

Is Disney+ expected to work fully before launch date? Isn't in 'testing' right now as described by the author? Why is everything expected to be perfect while still in testing? From this text, it sounds like Disney is actively working on the issue. The product has not launched yet. I'm not sure what the problem is. Aside from a faster initial customer support response (for a product that isn't even out!) would could Disney have done differently here? I understand that Disney+ may not launch with (or ever have) Linux support, and that would suck. But no evidence of that is presented here. And the author expects a resolution for a complex issue for a pre-launch product in testing phase from a major corporation within days? That seems aggressive and unrealistic timeline to expect a fix. Edit: The author writes "Their so called help-center does not even know about "Error Code 83"" (with some attitude and prejudice, I'll note); but also writes that Disney responded with "We are familiar with Error 83.". Confusing.

jchw 7y ago
The thing is, as they cover in their post, there’s nothing to “fix.” It isn’t broken. The error is actually that it refuses to run without a higher security level than many platforms support.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  It runs in Chrome on Windows, which also only supports Widevine Level 3, same as Linux. The post is just... not very good and full of factual errors.
  - jchw 7y ago
    This may very well be true, I’d like to note I don’t claim to know anything about how Widevine works. Of course, this is a very different criticism of the post.
newnewpdro 7y ago
You're ignoring the analysis that Disney+ seems to be blocking use entirely at the lower "security level" assessed by Widevine. It would not take significant time or effort for them to change the threshold value if it were something they considered broken. It seems prudent at this point to avoid becoming a paying customer until they address it, if you care about this sort of thing.
- cryptoz 7y ago
  > It would not take significant time or effort for them to change the threshold value if it were something they considered broken. Do you have reason to believe this? To me that sounds like a complicated change with significant potential business impacts. Have they signed contracts already where this kind of security is ambiguous? Does changing the flag actually solve the issues on all devices or do other issues present, since they have been untested? Testing must happen post-change, I would imagine. The issue still sounds complex to me. I use Linux and I want Disney+ to support it, obviously. But I don't see Disney as being in the wrong here (yet) - they're potentially just working on the issue before release. We'll see, I guess.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  > You're ignoring the analysis that Disney+ seems to be blocking use entirely at the lower "security level" assessed by Widevine. That's because it's wrong. Chrome on Windows only supports Level 3 too, and it works there. (The article incorrectly assumes Level 1 is lower than Level 3. Level 1 is the highest security level, not the lowest.)

crispinb 7y ago

> instead send them a message letting them know that you are boycotting them until they get their Linux support in order A boycott from all 12 desktop Linux users. That'll show 'em.

OrgNet 7y ago
it's worth a try, if you care (I pay for Netflix and I don't use it because it's easier to download the content somewhere else)... my Sharp "smart" TV will even stop supporting Netflix in December because they say the old software will no longer be compatible.
fortran77 7y ago
There are dozens of us!

pg_is_a_butt 7y ago

It doesn't work at all unless you pay them....... and I never planned to.

Causality1 7y ago

>In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions, but otherwise everything works fine, I don't understand the point of this type of thinking. Video DRM isn't like Denuvo where it can actually get you a few days or even weeks before any pirated versions exist on the web. If it can be watched by a human pirates will copy it, even if they have to rip it straight from the display controller of their monitors. I have never once had the slightest difficulty or delay in finding pirated versions of video content on Day 1 or even before, and at the highest-produced quality and resolution. Why do providers think making life hard only on paying customers is a good thing?

jedberg 7y ago
They do this because Hollywood doesn't understand technology. Netflix understands technology and understands this stops no one, but they are licensing the content from Hollywood, who thinks this behavior actually helps. Netflix is forced to play ball with them. Your next question is usually, "Why doesn't the Netflix original content not have these shenanigans then?". The answer is that most Netflix content is still made by Hollywood studios, so they have the same restrictions. Netflix is only a distributor in most cases, not the content creator. The other answer is that it is a lot more complicated in the software and for testing to say "can this content be played at 4K based on the publisher?" than to just say, "DRM level 1 means no 4K".
- jyrkesh 7y ago
  Was waiting for this reply, happy to see it come from the mighty jedberg. For those that don't know, click on his bio, he's definitely 100% spot on here
simias 7y ago
It's like asking why they bother paying customers with anti-piracy ads at the beginning of legally-purchased DVDs when obviously pirates are going to trim them. It's not supposed to be reasonable. It's design by committee, it's bikeshedding, it's weird clauses in complex contracts etc... From the right's holder point of view your reasoning doesn't make sense, instead it goes the other way: if people buy our product anyway when we do it that way, why change it? Do you think that when NBC licenses The Office to Netflix they care about Linux users not being able to stream it in 1080p? Do you think Netflix is willing to spend time and money to fight for the tiny portion of the user base who both watches Netflix on Linux and cares for high-def?

mindcrime 7y ago

Interesting. I'd been toying with signing up for Disney+ at some point (when does it even go live officially?). But if this is the case, I absolutely won't be getting a subscription as I use Linux as my desktop OS. "No Linux support" == "no customer"

reaperducer 7y ago
While I agree with the philosophy that Disney should try to support as many platforms as possible, I really don't think it will notice the Linux market is missing. Cost of building and maintaining a Linux client > Potential revenue from Linux users.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  Cost of building a Linux client should be zero. It's not because they want to have their proprietary DRM/spyware restricting what you can do. Ever heard the phrase "piracy is a better service", Disney? Edit: Cost should be negligible. You should build for web/browser standards, not the OS.
  - debaserab2 7y ago
    Why would the cost of supporting an additional platform ever be zero?
    - cameronbrown 7y ago
      See edit.
    - yk 7y ago
      They just need to not develop drm.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        That implies they could not offer the service due to the legal entanglements of offering films owned by multiple parties without copyright protection, so it's equivalent to saying "They just need to not exist." Understandably, they've chosen an alternative.

cloudking 7y ago

I'm pretty sure Disney is optimizing for the majority of their audience who use Windows, OSX, iOS etc, not developers/hackers who run desktop Linux. I'm curious about Android though.

dchest 7y ago
Optimizing how?
- x13 7y ago
  Disney is focusing on traditional popular consumer markets. Linux doesn't have a large enough number of users for their consumer-focused video streaming service at this time. They'll probably move down-market after nailing the experience on the first few platforms. side note - I love the number of comments about piracy as the other option, as if Disney is reading this page - or cares much about a small market (linux consumer-users)
- adrianmonk 7y ago
  Focusing their attention on the platforms that are most critical at first launch, I'd guess.
bobbyi_settv 7y ago
Don't the majority of people still watch TV on their TV? I don't care if their service runs on my computer because it's confirmed they will have an app for PS4, which is how I already watch Netflix and Hulu. I know there are people out there who refuse to run any non-free software anywhere, and it is a good thing they exist, but I would guess that the majority of people who have Linux on their laptop are willing to use a Fire Stick or their TV's builtin OS or whatever to stream TV and movies.
mcv 7y ago
It works fine on Android.

brogrammernot 7y ago

I can’t imagine the vast majority of their customer base uses Linux, and was likely left out as a fast follow as it isn’t worth being a supported system until they can see it gains traction.

RandomGuyDTB 7y ago

I was planning on subscribing instead to a VPN that supports peer-to-peer torrenting.

yumario 7y ago

AmazonPrime video does not delivers HD content in Linux... I tried everything switching browsers, changing User agent, wine, running virtual box. I seems some type of DRM is not implemented yet in Linux. Netflix is the same I think. I happily pirate content now.

Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
Publishers often refer to copying they don’t approve of as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that it is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. Based on such propaganda, they have procured laws in most of the world to forbid copying in most (or sometimes all) circumstances. (They are still pressuring to make these prohibitions more complete.) If you don’t believe that copying not approved by the publisher is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it.
- Buge 7y ago
  On the other hand, sometimes "pirate" seems to have a positive connotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY And interestingly the 3rd highest comment on that video currently is about Disney+.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Anecdotally, that song is quite popular among software pirates.
shakna 7y ago
You can get 1080p streams from Netflix on Linux (for 99% of their collection) by switching your user agent to ChromeOS. Their check is just: a = /CrOS/.test(a.userAgent); this.Fma = this.Aw = q.Gu.PV; this.Qm = [x.$l.nV]; this.oo = [x.V.vA, x.V.wA]; a && this.oo.push(x.V.TH); It very much is _not_ "DRM not yet implemented". Both Prime and Netflix are fully capable of streaming their highest quality under Linux - if you have the driver support. Unfortunately they have a bunch of hacky stuff trying to prevent it, rather than allowing the user's browser is to make the decision.

Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago

I believe it morally justifies downloading Disney+ content via torrents.

newfangle 7y ago
Tell yourself whatever you like
egypturnash 7y ago
Oh come on, “Disney won’t stream their stuff to my niche OS” is not a reason to get their stuff without paying. You can wait for a DVD, you can scrounge a used device that will run their DRM, or you can decide you hate all DRM and boycott their stuff until the unlikely event they offer a copyable version. Lots of people work hard making this shit, and they have bills to pay, these things don’t just spring fully-formed onto a hard drive like Athena from Zeus’ skull. Maybe there’s some morality going on if you buy a ton of merch for what you watch. Maybe. Or you can reward the companies that do support your niche OS by paying for their stuff, that’s pretty unassailable. I am far from without sin in this area, but I don’t try to make excuses. Watching stuff without paying its asking price is stealing.
- prepend 7y ago
  Niche or not “Disney won’t sell me content I want to buy” seems like a tough position for Disney to argue past. This was the argument back in the days when movies wouldn’t be released in many countries as the market is too small. What do you expect potential customers to do? Should they buy new computers? Not watch Disney stuff? I think I would expect the latter, but if they aren’t Disney’s customer then them pirating isn’t losing Disney any business.
  - zokier 7y ago
    > Niche or not “Disney won’t sell me content I want to buy” seems like a tough position for Disney to argue past. I feel that is such an entitled attitude. Watching Disney+ is hardly some inalienable human right nor essential for survival. Why would anyone think their right to use a service, and cosume content, overrides Disneys well-established ownership?

vitus 7y ago

Nit, since this confused me when I was looking for more context: for whatever reason, Widevine security levels are ordered in decreasing security (whereas the article has them backwards). Widevine on Linux only supports L3, which means that there's no guarantee that any processing is done inside the CPU's trusted execution environment. Which, uh, reads as "no security guarantee" to me.

swiley 7y ago
I’m not really ok with other people’s code running on my Secure Enclave. BitTorrented video has no security guarantee either.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  > I’m not really ok with other people’s code running on my Secure Enclave. All the code that runs on your secure enclave is other people's code.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Depends on the device, of course.
- vitus 7y ago
  The security guarantee here isn't for the user, though. It's more of a placebo effect for the content producers.
  - bobajeff 7y ago
    That's the funny thing about this whole thing they keep using terms like security when what they're really talking about is anti-saving/copying/skipping/fastforwarding and region blocking.
- yaur 7y ago
  In order to get the highest level protection in widevine (the numbering is confusing) the decryption code and secure media path all need to be provisioned by the OEM. In otherwords the “other people” running code in the Secure Enclave is the device manufacturer. If you don’t trust them you are already sunk.

Vaslo 7y ago

“First of all, as always my opinions are my own, not those of my employer.” Why do you need to write that? It’s a benign article and more so it’s about as protective as the useless “Store is not responsible for carts that damage your car” signs.

Spooky23 7y ago
Companies react in strange ways. I recall a forum post a few years back about an issue with a backup solution. The poster ran into a problem and shared it in response to a question. Someone from the storage company went apeshit, figured out who the poster was, and met with the CIO of the guys employee to get him to remove the post.
- gtirloni 7y ago
  I really hope he's swimming in lawsuit money.
arthens 7y ago
Years ago I ranted on Twitter about Bitium being unreliable. There was no mention of the company I work for on my twitter account, but I had my full name visible. They looked up my name in their database, found my account, and made a phone call to my CTO to ask if there was a problem with their product. The tone of the call was friendly (they didn't try to get me fired or anything), but I still got some heat because my CTO was pissed (until I pointed out that it was a personal account without any work reference). So yeah... I'm not surprised people feel the need to add disclaimers to what they write online.

xellisx 7y ago

Is anyone really surprised?

profmonocle 7y ago

> desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions And yet 4K webrips of recent Netflix shows are readily available on torrent sites. I don't understand who these higher levels of DRM are trying to target. They obviously don't stop the serious pirates from ripping and sharing the content with everyone. Yet the lower levels are "good enough" to stop average users from trivially downloading and keeping the file, like you might do with an plain, embedded MP4 file.

lousken 7y ago
Obviously, the point is to screw up the customers - every DRM can and will be broken at some point
nikanj 7y ago
Device manufacturers. Play nice, or we won't grant you the magic pixie dust to play our content in glorious 4k.
- baddox 7y ago
  To clarify, this isn’t just a cynical comment. It’s actually why digital content producers use DRM. Generally speaking, they’re not idiots, they know it will have little effect on determined pirates and will cause some hassle for some legitimate customers. The point really is so that the digital content producers can maintain control over the providers of computer hardware and distribution channels. Here’s an old article claiming to be a big revelation, but it’s pretty much common sense and has been fairly well recognized for much longer than that: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-engineer-drm-has-nothing-to-do-with-piracy/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-engineer-drm-has-nothin...
  - narrator 7y ago
    So the purpose of DRM is to thwart the first sale doctrine?
    - 7y ago

SomeOtherThrow 7y ago

Is there any other future?

chodeboy 7y ago

From the headline I was kind of excited. Like disney using some freak tech stack on their servers like freebsd or windows. But it is just DRM incompatibilities with linux. Kind of a bummer. On a side note: prime also stopped working for me on mint+firefox. Still works with chrome though.

tolmasky 7y ago

So, at least from my basic research, the levels seem to be switched in this post: L1 is the highest level, not L3. So if Android and Desktop Linuxes support L1, that should not be an issue. Perhaps its is a minor error and he meant L3. That being said, is it possible for the user to have their Desktop Linux support L1 somehow? Android is a Linux that clearly support L1 and can show these formats (I imagine), so can that be accomplished on another Linux?

Mindwipe 7y ago
Android depends on the hardware, but generally speaking Western devices support Widevine Level 1 and its implemented in hardware. Desktop Linux will only ever support Level 3. But Chrome on Windows also supports Level 3, and Disney+ works in Chrome, there, so the article isn't correct.
- yumario 7y ago
  Why do say that Linux will only ever support Level 3? Is there some fundamental limitation?
  - Mindwipe 7y ago
    There's the fundamental limitation that the odds of any maintainer rewriting the entire graphics pipleine to secure the video path from the user for DRM on Linux is roughly zero.
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      A corporate sponsor might rewrite it... Chrome OS did it after all... Probably wouldn't get merged into mainline Linux tho due to all the DRM opposition
  - the_pwner224 7y ago
    Probably because MS and Apple bend over for producers and put special code in their OS for DRM. You can google for it but here's an example: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wmformat/microsoft-secure-audio-path--deprecated https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/wmformat/micr... This is the same reason that only some Android devices support higher levels of Widevine; Samsung will add code to their OS that allows video/audio to be processed through inaccessible areas of the processor/GPU. If you try to take a screenshot it will just show up as a black screen (same on Windows with the Nextflix app IIRC). Cheapo Chinese Androids and even cheap Androids that you can buy in the US will not do this so they can't play high-res video on Netflix, even if they have a high-res screen. On Linux this special path is not implemented; anything can see what's going on with the graphics or audio pipeline and record from it.

jonplackett 7y ago

Anyone who’s used Disney’s existing streaming service will, I am certain, tell you it it truly awful. It’s incredibly slow, saddles you with massive downloads regardless of device or connection type. The app sometimes just doesn’t open at all. I really hope whatever they’re making is not based on what they are doing currently.

hellofunk 7y ago
This whole thread has been rather surprising to me, we've been enjoying Disney+ for a few weeks now and I've been amazed how wonderful all the content is. I've never seen any errors or the issue described in this article (I'm on Mac). The only thing about the UI that I miss is that it does not respond to keyboard shortcuts (like pressing spacebar to start and stop the playback). But overall, I've been very happy and impressed with the service.
- alt219 7y ago
  Are you from the future? In all seriousness though, how are you able to enjoy Disney+ currently? It has yet to launch. According to the Disney+ website it launches in just under 23 days from now.[0] 0. https://disneyplus.com https://disneyplus.com
  - mholt 7y ago
    It was released early in some regions like the Netherlands for testing and promotional purposes.
    - alt219 7y ago
      Thanks, I of course didn’t read the article before asking my question. Glad to hear it works well so far. Looking forward to it when it goes live. Cheers!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - 7y ago

pcr910303 7y ago

While I understand why Disney is getting much hate here at HN, I don’t think Disney really deserves it; Let’s face it, Linux is a very niche OS. Just flipping on a switch for level 3 on Linux also takes money, as then they have to check whether it’s working at every deploy, provide customer support for them, etc, ... And there’s people in this thread that DRMs are pointless... but IMO DRMs aren’t useless, it works as a small barrier for users to not copy. Think about two hypothetical people A and B for example; When DRM exists: A talking to B “Hey, I’ve watched the movie XXX from Disney+ last night, you really should subscribe to see that great movie!” When DRM doesn’t exist: A talking to B “Hey, I’ve watched the movie XXX from Disney+ last night, you really should see it. I’ll give the movie file in my USB tomorrow.” I don’t like the company-tired nature of DRMs, but not much of a solution exists, esp when DRM was rejected by the web standards.

manicdee 7y ago
When DRM exists: “Hey I watched this movie that hasn’t been released from Disney last night, have a copy and you can enjoy it too!” The only thing preventing this stream working on Linux is someone paying Disney the licence fees. It’s nothing to do with control of end product quality. Disney does not provide support for customer technical problems.
- pcr910303 7y ago
  > When DRM exists: “Hey I watched this movie that hasn’t been released from Disney last night, have a copy and you can enjoy it too!” Only if the value of time consumed trying to break the DRM is lower than the Disney+ subscription fee. And I think for the majority, the Disney+ subscription fee will be lower.
  - manicdee 7y ago
    For a lot of people I know, there’s more cost than just the subscription fee, there’s also buying equipment to support that streaming service. It’s like people recommending I upgrade to Windows 10 when the machine I am using is barely capable of running Windows 7. It’s not just $10 a month, it’s also $1000 for a new computer to watch it on. Or a new TV which means buying new furniture since the current cabinet can’t hold anything larger than 30” and the smallest TV I can buy is 44”. Then there’s streaming requiring 25Mbps when my Australian NBN struggles at 12Mbps.

dewey 7y ago

From their response it sounds like they are on it, it's still 3 weeks until the official launch in the bigger markets and it's only live in NL as a test market right now. To me it sounds like a normal bug for an edge case. It's made out to be much more than it actually is with this clickbait title.

briandear 7y ago

Ironically, scrolling for the article is broken on iOS Safari.

voldacar 7y ago

Could this be fixed by disassembling the widevine .so/.dll and altering the function that returns the "security level" so that it always returns the highest level?

Avery3R 7y ago
The highest security level involves hardware keys. You'd have to get a hardware device that supports it and extract the keys somehow
- voldacar 7y ago
  So what hardware device is it interacting with when it is able to run properly on windows and mac? Is there a reason Linux couldn't interact with this hardware in the same way?
  - wahern 7y ago
    Maybe SGX? SGX requires kernel support, which Linux currently lacks.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    There isn't any, hence why those devices aren't certified to the Widevine Level 1.
zelly 7y ago
As I understand it, the DRM authenticates the physical monitor/TV with a key on the hardware. That part is uncrackable because authentication is done on Netflix-side. But as for whatever is rejecting Linux but allowing Windows/macOS, that has to be completely in-software. I think you are right--this could be bypassed by changing a register value somewhere. This sounds like a fun project.
- voldacar 7y ago
  >But as for whatever is rejecting Linux but allowing Windows/macOS, that has to be completely in-software. Yeah that's more of what i was referring to.

theninja 7y ago

Content publishers sometimes demand certain DRM features in order to license their content. For example, they can dictate that only X devices can watch content Y. They can also demand restriction to how content is stored on devices etc. So until the content publishers change their restrictions, DRM will be there and will be annoying to customers :(

jonny_eh 7y ago
Disney owns all the content they're streaming.

danmg 7y ago

Are we forgiving Walt Disney for having 'trouble makers' blacklisted and investigated by HUAC? I'm not. Even if they made something besides pablum, I wouldn't be interested.

antisthenes 7y ago

Back to piracy it is, I guess.

ahje 7y ago
But _why_? Is there something Disney has that everyone _needs_ to have? My first reaction to stuff like this is simply that I can't be bothered -- if Disney don't want me as a customer then I'll simply ignore their service. This is a serious question; I'm quite ignorant when it comes to the content of the current Disney IP portfolio and I'm not really a consumer of mainstream media.

zeruch 7y ago

Having had Disney as a client in a past life, I always assume they will go for the most draconian, despotic IP control imaginable...as a starting point. They are cultural not wired any other way, and cannot be mollified. They are a horrible company.

unangst 7y ago

I like to think that if Disney+ doesn’t work on Chromebooks, the “freshmen hivemind” (aka all of the freshmen) will solve it by complaining to Disney relentlessly. Seriously, not sure if Disney has thought through the market penetration Chromebooks have in the K-12 market AND the correlation between those students/districts and discretionary income for “yet another streaming service.”

filmgirlcw 7y ago

The hand-wringing in this thread is sort of amazing — especially since 99% of the people complaining weren’t going to subscribe anyway. Look, if there are indeed issues with actual ChromeOS (and not the Chromium variants — but the full mostly-proprietary Google procured ChromeOS), I fully expect that to be fixed — you might not get 4K support (but there are what, 3 Chromebooks with 4K screens? Plus, most streaming services do not support 4K on web browsers period - even Netflix only offers it on Windows. Mac users with 5K screens have to use Boot Camp (and even that isn’t a guarantee) to watch 4K in the browser) — but if Chromebooks are an issue, I fully expect that to be fixed. As odious as DRM is, I just can’t bring myself to be surprised or overwrought by its existence. Yes, it is largely more about appearances than actually solving piracy — but those appearances matter. The big thing that has pulled people away from piracy is convenience. And with the exception of Linux on the desktop users (a population that is small and only getting smaller, as the main distros don’t even care about the desktop or non-server users anymore), Disney+ seems to offer that. The people that pirate because of DRM would have pirated anyway. I pay and subscribe to more content than 99.99% of the population — but I also download whatever I can’t get from an online service and I feel zero guilt and make zero justifications for my choices. And that’ll remain true for Disney+ — even if there wasn’t a DRM scheme at all (which just isn’t ever going to happen). DRM sucks, sure, but are we really surprised? And I’m sorry, but I’m not ready to boycott a streaming service with tons of content because it doesn’t support Linux in the desktop.

thayne 7y ago
I probably would pay for it if it had linux support. But since it doesn't, I won't. Every device in my household is either linux or Android, and I primarily stream from desktop linux. If disney+ doesn't work on that there is no rason for me to pay for it.

andrepd 7y ago

>Widevine has 3 security levels and many devices, including desktop Linux and many Android devices only support level 1. In this case e.g. Netflix will not offer full HD or 4k resolutions, but otherwise everything works fine, which is a balance between DRM and usability. This reminds me of my very short foray into streaming services. I purchased a month of Netflix, or rather I got their 1 month trial, and opened the website to watch something. First it didn't open on Firefox, and they told me to install Chrom(ium). I didn't like it, but went away and `apt install`ed Chromium. Then it blocked my account because I was using a VPN. I liked this even less (I gave it a credit card number, so they know I'm not a bot or something using a VPN to hide traffic), but I still disabled my VPN. Mind that these two steps already cost me 45 minutes of browsing through FAQs and forums to figure out. Then I finally open something, after installing proprietary software, a new browser, and disabling my privacy-protecting VPN. I'm presented with a video playing in glorious 1280x720 resolution. I just laughed to myself, closed the tab, and opened thepiratebay.org. So let me get this straight. I'm paying for a service and I get headaches, restrictions upon restrictions, and mandatory malware, all for the privilege of watching gimped resolution content? Whereas if I went on piratebay I could get a 4K mkv file I can watch anywhere I want, no internet and no software required? You can fuck right off. Strikes me as odd how anyone can describing paying for a shit service as "a balance between DRM and usability".

jowsie 7y ago
You're clearly not representative of the average Netflix customer.
phist_mcgee 7y ago
Well look at it from Netflix's perspective. You are in no way an indicative normal customer. They don't support certain browsers, because there is no need to. Privacy hiding VPNs are used to evade content locking as part of Netflix's business models/licensing agreements, so why would they allow your privacy hiding vpn? I'm not agreeing that they should do these things, but you are approaching a service from a very standpoint, and I can understand why your experience is less than optimal. Being a ubuntu/debian user you must have encountered this before righ ;)

joshspankit 7y ago

Is anyone surprised that Disney would DRM in draconian ways?

BooneJS 7y ago

MLB Advanced Media was created to stream baseball games for MLB.tv. They did such a great job that other sports networks, ESPN, and even HBO have licensed their technology to successfully roll out streaming and handle the GoT bandwidth crush. I'm looking forward to Disney+, and it's a shame that in 2019 a company as large as Disney with a back catalog and list of properties as massive as Disney can't simply step off the starting blocks with technology that lets them focus on the stories. The only stories I've read lately about the service is about the technology...

dmitrygr 7y ago

As always, the pirate bay offers a DRM free alternative. Maybe one day the media companies will learn that the one thing consumers cannot stand is being inconvenienced, even slightly. As long as their solution provides less value than pirating, or is a bigger pain in the ass than pirating, they will lose. Unfortunately for them, pirating has become so easy, that unless they become like iTunes, they are dead. Just a matter of time.

city41 7y ago
I think you greatly overestimate how many people pirate content.

deleted 7y ago

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matheusmoreira 7y ago

> {"errors":[{"code":"platform-verification-failed","description":"Platform verification status incompatible with security level"}]} Any information about this "platform verification"? What exactly are they verifying and how?

ru999gol 7y ago

While some streaming services might work with Linux, almost all will not show HD or better quality. Just torrent everything, its so much easier, this DRM clusterfuck just gives you less reason to feel bad about it.

snr 7y ago

This is a naive question but I've always wondered, what motivates people who distribute pirated content for free? I get why someone would consume pirated content but why would someone take the risk of publishing pirated content? Is it the ad traffic that the publishers get?

Sendotsh 7y ago
Easiest way to think of it is as a competitive hobby. Groups compete to release stuff fastest for cred. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez_scene https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez_scene
h4waii 7y ago
To some, it's a game, it's a challenge, and it comes with recognition and/or reward -- potentially in the way of private services or paid requests. Or, as the quote goes, "some men just want to watch the world burn", whichever world they deem unworthy of existing.

fredthomsen 7y ago

I see a future where media consumption via general purpose computing platforms is dead and only special super locked down devices can only play certain media. Seems like Disney+ will start us down that road

NoblePublius 7y ago

You would think Disney would want to support chromeOS because of its widespread use in schools

dudus 7y ago

Everyone here freaking out about DRM and how they think they're entitled to free pirate it if Disney don't offer the format they want. While I'm just looking at all my TV's that support casting from my phone by default. Who even watches movies on their computer anyway. Your TV will support it natively if not right away just buy a Chromecast or Roku and be done with it. There are worse things to freak out about.

m3adow 7y ago
> Who even watches movies on their computer anyway. I do for example. I don't own a TV, my beamer is directly connected to my PC. Just because your use case is covered doesn't mean everyones is. > Your TV will support it natively if not right away just buy a Chromecast or Roku and be done with it. "If it doesn't work for you, just buy new hardware." - I'd call that entitled. I prefer to just don't subscribe to a service forcing me to buy additional hardware due to customer unfriendly DRM.
Marsymars 7y ago
I have an HTPC. It works very well. Any other solution would involve compromises that aren't acceptable to me.
diminoten 7y ago
I've never understood the pirate mentality as anything other than raging entitlement. If I have ever pirated anything, I certainly didn't do so out of any sense of righteousness, I'd have done it out of greed. No reason to dress it up like I'm some kind of hero.
cryptozeus 7y ago
I was surprised as well to find out that many people here still watch the content on laptop. Everyone’s case is different but if you are going to watch starwars hd then might as well get a nice hd tv and forgot about the laptop.

mastrsushi 7y ago

> Disney+ OTOH seems to have the drm features kranked up to maximum draconian settings Is this likely for legal reasons then? Maybe Disney doesn't want OS's outside of the main consumer audience to have the ability to stream. Linux could be feared for capturing streaming data and scraping sites. It's a lot more customizable of an OS. Sort of like when Sony dropped Yellow Dog Linux on PS3. What other non Linux devices are having this problem?

p2t2p 7y ago

I’m a simple man, you treat me like a thief, I behave like one, I’m not paying for single DRMed video, I pirate it. I do pay for music though. On bandcamp.

ReptileMan 7y ago

Torrent sites use no DRM and the speeds are higher.

mcv 7y ago

I do care about Linux, but I'm not using it to watch Disney+. I stream from my Android phone to Chromecast, which works great the first time. After a while the phone seems to lose track of the fact that it's casting and I can't stop it or start a different movie.

t0ddbonzalez 7y ago

There won't be much of an overlap on the Venn diagram of Fedora users and Disney+ subscribers. Raise a hand if you're shocked that Disney would use the highest level of DRM possible, given their history of guarding their intellectual property...

cryptozeus 7y ago

I don’t get the article, seems a bit of premature noise. They said they are aware of it and working on it. Just because it has not been fixed in 1 month during trial period does not mean they will not fix this. Side note I had a recruiter call from disney + team to work on their app for windows. They are building this thing in wpf. I passed.

LeoNatan25 7y ago

Use torrents, those are DRM free, easy to use and often just as good if not higher quality than streaming services.

xs83 7y ago

Well unfortunately for Disney, my main TV box is an Ubuntu NUC so I will definitely not be subscribing to it. Just like when the NHL did the same - when there were better piracy options than your paid for service (which I might add I had no problem paying for for years) - you want to ask questions.