15 ms·

Not to quibble, but this is household income, not necessarily a single individual's income. In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not a

Not to quibble, but this is household income, not necessarily a single individual's income. In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd, and can certainly happen with two doctors, lawyers, or even software developers. I'd much rather see metrics normalized by the local household income, which would be much more representative of relative inequality.

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
This is why polygamy is illegal... can you imagine three or four married developers living together?
- itake 7y ago
  Why is this why polygamy is illegal?
  - huy-nguyen 7y ago
    /sarcasm
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
NeoBasilisk 7y ago
You don't need an "absurd" amount of income to be in the top 1%.
- FreedomToCreate 7y ago
  Isn't this subjective. For someone who has a pathway to earning 500K (they and there spouse both work at FAANG) its not that absurd, but for 99% of people it is because almost everyone has no path to earning that much.
ubertoop 7y ago
> , or even software developers. lol. really? what software devs are making 250k a year?
- uwuhn 7y ago
  levels.fyi
  - throwaway981211 7y ago
    These numbers are self reported so I wouldn’t index on them that much - most numbers I see there for Amazon are on the higher end and give the appearance the higher end of the scale is the median... which is inaccurate given that some of the pay bands are pretty wide.
    - borramakot 7y ago
      I get the sense that those numbers might include the value of stock increasing, but that's the only site that's had numbers within 10% of the offers I actually got after negotiation.
    - laurencerowe 7y ago
      I've found levels.fyi to be pretty accurate. For hard numbers you can compare with salaries reported on green card PERM applications (which exclude stock amounts.) Netflix pays all cash and only hires at senior and above so should be comparable: http://visadoor.com/greencards/index?company=Netflix&job=&country=&state=&year=2019&submit=Search http://visadoor.com/greencards/index?company=Netflix&job=&co... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Netflix&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Netflix&track=Software%20Eng...
      - ryandrake 7y ago
        I wouldn’t trust online, voluntary, self-reported salary “data” even a little. No more than any other form of e-bragging. Everyone who posts online makes $350k, drives a Ferrari, and has a supermodel romantic partner. Netflix is known to pay at the top of market, so the highest few compensations there being >$350k make at least a little sense.
chocolatebunny 7y ago
So I should ask for a raise AND find someone to marry me who makes $250K a year.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  You can marry more money in 5 minutes than you could earn in a lifetime... (I tried to find the original source/author for this and couldn't.)
dragonwriter 7y ago
> In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd, In the San Francisco area, a bit over $500k is the mean income of the top 5% of households, so while it's not too 1% locally, it still in a fairly narrow slice at the top. https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/California/San-Francisco/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/California/San-Franc...
themagician 7y ago
It’s not necessarily absurd, just rare. 1 in 100 rare to be precise. It’s not really relative. $500k HHI in Manhattan is a ridiculous amount of money that lets you live a ridiculous life of luxury, whether you realize it or not. Wealthy elites really like to make this false “relativity” argument, where $500,000 isn’t “that much” because everything in New York is so expensive… but they ignore the simple fact that they get to live in New York and have access to everything that entails. Being able to live in New York at all is something many fantasize about. It’s part of why so many TV shows are based in New York. For most, it’s a fanciful life beyond their reach. $500k is $500k. It gets you $500k worth of stuff. That $500k of stuff may be in the form of material items, access or lifestyle (e.g. weather). The fake relatively argument comes in when you only compare material items and selectively ignore everything else to make a false argument and appear like less of an elitists than you are. But $500k will get you EQUALLY absurd lifestyles in Manhattan or Kansas. In one, you get to live the high life in the middle of New York, with access to basically everything. In the other, you live in the midst of nothing, but with a pool that might qualify as a theme park and a fleet of exotic cars. In either case, these are lifestyles only available to the 1%.
- nugget 7y ago
  Many of the people I know who make $500k+ in Manhattan are in relatively unstable careers. Finance comes to mind. If you take a snapshot of them in the moment they may seem to have substantial purchasing power, but the smart ones realize the music could stop at any moment and their primary indulgence is saving up enough money to retire early (on much much less than $500k/year).
  - themagician 7y ago
    The ability to retire at all without welfare is a fantasy for most people, let alone retire early.
aphextron 7y ago
>In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd, and can certainly happen with two doctors, lawyers, or even software developers. This is why the 99% stuff misses the mark. That 1% is the best of us; our doctors, lawyers, successful small business owners, etc. People who drive the economy and create outsized value through specialized labor that is rightfully compensated. The true problem in our society is the 0.01%. There is a tiny portion of these that are the Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerbergs who are self made. But the vast majority of them are the intergenerational wealth holders whose fortunes have simply continued to compound and provide them with an unnatural amount of power influence that is completely undeserved. It's why a wealth tax is so neccessary in this country, and if properly implemented could completely absolve the need for income tax.
- xyzzyz 7y ago
  How many of the 0.01% inherited their wealth, and how many have made it? Do you have any sources for that? Most people on Fortune 500 list, for example, didn't inherit any significant part of their wealth.
  - majormajor 7y ago
    You aren't going to be showing up in the top few hundred against the people with recent brand new huge fortunes if you have generational wealth - note that 0.01% of a 300M population is population is 30,000 people. How many of those do we know much about?
  - lumost 7y ago
    A better question would be how many of the Forbes 500 started with significant inheritance?
    - MR4D 7y ago
      An even better one would be how many people do the top 500 employ. I don’t care what they started with - I care what they did with it. For instance, if you started with 10MM and built a billion dollar company, great. But if you started with 1MM and turned it into 1MM, then you really didn’t help out at all.
claudeganon 7y ago
>In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd I guess you would have to define the threshold of “absurd,” but It’s a pretty big deviation from the median in Los Angeles and New York, where the median incomes are between 60-65K. In SF, you’re talking two people both making more than double the median (about 110K) Considering things like the cost of things like housing in these places, the inequality seems massive anyway you slice it. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescountycalifornia/INC110217 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescount... https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/income-taxes/med_hhold_income.htm https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/income-taxes/med_hhold_i... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN
- umeshunni 7y ago
  > the median incomes are between 60-65K The median income, for a college graduate, nationally is >$90K. A lot of the median income stats are meaningless once you consider only the educated slices of the workforce. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:U.S._Income_and_Net_Worth_Distribution.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
  - claudeganon 7y ago
    Close to 2/3 of Americans over 25 don’t have college degrees, so how is that meaningless? The educated slices of the workforce aren’t the majority and we’re talking about income inequality generally.
    - MR4D 7y ago
      Interesting. Seems like education inequality given the (implied) causation.
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago
    Yeah just get rid of all those people not making money and the stats all align with your preconceived notion. Brilliant!

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago

This is why polygamy is illegal... can you imagine three or four married developers living together?

itake 7y ago
Why is this why polygamy is illegal?
- huy-nguyen 7y ago
  /sarcasm
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

NeoBasilisk 7y ago

You don't need an "absurd" amount of income to be in the top 1%.

FreedomToCreate 7y ago
Isn't this subjective. For someone who has a pathway to earning 500K (they and there spouse both work at FAANG) its not that absurd, but for 99% of people it is because almost everyone has no path to earning that much.

ubertoop 7y ago

> , or even software developers. lol. really? what software devs are making 250k a year?

uwuhn 7y ago
levels.fyi
- throwaway981211 7y ago
  These numbers are self reported so I wouldn’t index on them that much - most numbers I see there for Amazon are on the higher end and give the appearance the higher end of the scale is the median... which is inaccurate given that some of the pay bands are pretty wide.
  - borramakot 7y ago
    I get the sense that those numbers might include the value of stock increasing, but that's the only site that's had numbers within 10% of the offers I actually got after negotiation.
  - laurencerowe 7y ago
    I've found levels.fyi to be pretty accurate. For hard numbers you can compare with salaries reported on green card PERM applications (which exclude stock amounts.) Netflix pays all cash and only hires at senior and above so should be comparable: http://visadoor.com/greencards/index?company=Netflix&job=&country=&state=&year=2019&submit=Search http://visadoor.com/greencards/index?company=Netflix&job=&co... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Netflix&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Netflix&track=Software%20Eng...
    - ryandrake 7y ago
      I wouldn’t trust online, voluntary, self-reported salary “data” even a little. No more than any other form of e-bragging. Everyone who posts online makes $350k, drives a Ferrari, and has a supermodel romantic partner. Netflix is known to pay at the top of market, so the highest few compensations there being >$350k make at least a little sense.

chocolatebunny 7y ago

So I should ask for a raise AND find someone to marry me who makes $250K a year.

sokoloff 7y ago
You can marry more money in 5 minutes than you could earn in a lifetime... (I tried to find the original source/author for this and couldn't.)

dragonwriter 7y ago

> In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd, In the San Francisco area, a bit over $500k is the mean income of the top 5% of households, so while it's not too 1% locally, it still in a fairly narrow slice at the top. https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/California/San-Francisco/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-area/California/San-Franc...

themagician 7y ago

It’s not necessarily absurd, just rare. 1 in 100 rare to be precise. It’s not really relative. $500k HHI in Manhattan is a ridiculous amount of money that lets you live a ridiculous life of luxury, whether you realize it or not. Wealthy elites really like to make this false “relativity” argument, where $500,000 isn’t “that much” because everything in New York is so expensive… but they ignore the simple fact that they get to live in New York and have access to everything that entails. Being able to live in New York at all is something many fantasize about. It’s part of why so many TV shows are based in New York. For most, it’s a fanciful life beyond their reach. $500k is $500k. It gets you $500k worth of stuff. That $500k of stuff may be in the form of material items, access or lifestyle (e.g. weather). The fake relatively argument comes in when you only compare material items and selectively ignore everything else to make a false argument and appear like less of an elitists than you are. But $500k will get you EQUALLY absurd lifestyles in Manhattan or Kansas. In one, you get to live the high life in the middle of New York, with access to basically everything. In the other, you live in the midst of nothing, but with a pool that might qualify as a theme park and a fleet of exotic cars. In either case, these are lifestyles only available to the 1%.

nugget 7y ago
Many of the people I know who make $500k+ in Manhattan are in relatively unstable careers. Finance comes to mind. If you take a snapshot of them in the moment they may seem to have substantial purchasing power, but the smart ones realize the music could stop at any moment and their primary indulgence is saving up enough money to retire early (on much much less than $500k/year).
- themagician 7y ago
  The ability to retire at all without welfare is a fantasy for most people, let alone retire early.

aphextron 7y ago

>In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd, and can certainly happen with two doctors, lawyers, or even software developers. This is why the 99% stuff misses the mark. That 1% is the best of us; our doctors, lawyers, successful small business owners, etc. People who drive the economy and create outsized value through specialized labor that is rightfully compensated. The true problem in our society is the 0.01%. There is a tiny portion of these that are the Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerbergs who are self made. But the vast majority of them are the intergenerational wealth holders whose fortunes have simply continued to compound and provide them with an unnatural amount of power influence that is completely undeserved. It's why a wealth tax is so neccessary in this country, and if properly implemented could completely absolve the need for income tax.

xyzzyz 7y ago
How many of the 0.01% inherited their wealth, and how many have made it? Do you have any sources for that? Most people on Fortune 500 list, for example, didn't inherit any significant part of their wealth.
- majormajor 7y ago
  You aren't going to be showing up in the top few hundred against the people with recent brand new huge fortunes if you have generational wealth - note that 0.01% of a 300M population is population is 30,000 people. How many of those do we know much about?
- lumost 7y ago
  A better question would be how many of the Forbes 500 started with significant inheritance?
  - MR4D 7y ago
    An even better one would be how many people do the top 500 employ. I don’t care what they started with - I care what they did with it. For instance, if you started with 10MM and built a billion dollar company, great. But if you started with 1MM and turned it into 1MM, then you really didn’t help out at all.

claudeganon 7y ago

>In coastal cities, a two income household making 250k each is not absurd I guess you would have to define the threshold of “absurd,” but It’s a pretty big deviation from the median in Los Angeles and New York, where the median incomes are between 60-65K. In SF, you’re talking two people both making more than double the median (about 110K) Considering things like the cost of things like housing in these places, the inequality seems massive anyway you slice it. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescountycalifornia/INC110217 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/losangelescount... https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/income-taxes/med_hhold_income.htm https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/income-taxes/med_hhold_i... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHICA06075A052NCEN

umeshunni 7y ago
> the median incomes are between 60-65K The median income, for a college graduate, nationally is >$90K. A lot of the median income stats are meaningless once you consider only the educated slices of the workforce. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:U.S._Income_and_Net_Worth_Distribution.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
- claudeganon 7y ago
  Close to 2/3 of Americans over 25 don’t have college degrees, so how is that meaningless? The educated slices of the workforce aren’t the majority and we’re talking about income inequality generally.
  - MR4D 7y ago
    Interesting. Seems like education inequality given the (implied) causation.
- cannonedhamster 7y ago
  Yeah just get rid of all those people not making money and the stats all align with your preconceived notion. Brilliant!