17 ms·

> In the rare occasions when the hacking team couldn't find a way inside a target, a second MSS JSSD officer would intervene and recruit a Chinese national work

> In the rare occasions when the hacking team couldn't find a way inside a target, a second MSS JSSD officer would intervene and recruit a Chinese national working for the target company, and use him to plant Sakula on the victim's network, usually via USB drives. I'm not sure how the US is going to deal with things like this given that we have so many Chinese nationals working in most major corporations across so many industries.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Lol come on. You know what will happen. You just don’t want to say it out loud. Edit: To be clear.... less Chinese will be allowed into the United States given the threat. Light the comments up my lads.
- president 7y ago
  Internment like in WW2? Probably not. Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    > Internment like in WW2? Probably not. I wasn't thinking in such drastically illegal terms to be candid... so: no. > Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers. I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it gets bad enough, total denial of all visas. (I don't feel a kinship with China that I do with Mexico/Latin-America and Canada.) This is a long term threat. I don't want any short term reactionary type policy. I want a strategic policy that addresses the threat, not just our emotions in the current times. Edit: Lol the Chinese are out in force tonight.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it gets bad enough, total denial of all visas. (I don't feel a kinship with China that I do with Mexico/Latin-America and Canada.) No, that's dumb. The answer is to let the students in, maybe push them away from militarily sensitive areas of research, and improve the education they receive in the US to counter CCP propaganda narratives. If the later is done, maybe we can actually realize the hopes of someday liberalizing China. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-education-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/world/asia/hong-kong-prot...
      - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
        > The answer is to let the students in [...] How about no. I'm tired of this bullshit meme. We've done this for 25 years and it has not made a god-damned difference except for causing a drain of intellectual property from the US to China. The [privileged] students can suffer in China alongside the plebs for all I care. They are not in our national interest and no comment on HN will change that fact.
  - yupolerist 7y ago
    Maybe a Chinese Exclusion Act 2.0? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
- ackbar03 7y ago
  I don't think genocide is an option anymore
quotz 7y ago
we should do to spies what we have always done
Aperocky 7y ago
Moles are not unique to China, it just happens that China currently happens to be the enemy. Most people whether immigrant or not just want to get the work done and go home.
- president 7y ago
  The situation is a bit more unique with Chinese working/studying abroad. Since most of their families, friends, and relatives are still in China, they can be coerced by the CCP to engage in espionage out of fear of hurting their families.
  - z2 7y ago
    I'm confused by your main point. Do you mean, as opposed to other foreign workers and students on temporary work/student visas, who can somehow migrate their friends and family over and therefore be subject to less coercion?
    - president 7y ago
      No, I was pointing out that China is unique in that they would have no moral qualms in coercing their citizens abroad using violence. I'm sure my coworkers from the EU probably don't ever have to worry about being in a situation where they would have to choose between spying or hurting their family.
      - TkTech 7y ago
        I agree with you (Someone from France doesn't have to worry about the modern version of China's 9 generation purge[1]), but as a Canadian it's very common to see the Chinese students here wildly supportive of the CCP, including harassing and attacking Hong Kong protesters. I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. With a billion and a half citizens it's unlikely they lack for fanatics to exploit. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations
jonathanyc 7y ago
If history and the other comments here give any indication, we’ll deal with it by shooting ourselves in the foot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen
thinkcontext 7y ago
There's a crackdown underway. "Is it police work or racial profiling? U.S. crackdown puts Chinese scholars on edge" https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-china-racial-profiling-university-fbi-spy https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-ch...
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Well, when your adversary is effectively an ethnostate (at least in terms of the classes capable of travel), scrutiny on their nationals is going to be harder to distinguish from racial profiling (if most Chinese people where you're at are new). At least, we should be monitoring Confucius Institute outposts and scams/blackmail making Chinese nationals vulnerable in the U.S. and Canada.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Well, when your adversary is effectively an ethnostate I would be willing to bet there is precisely zero wailing about “Han supremacy” on Chinese campuses too. I’ll further bet there are precisely zero “Pooh is not my president-for-life” protests either.
- ddiq 7y ago
  Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chinese are highly ethnocentric.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    During WW2, there was an internment camp called Manzanar, where the US put all the Japanese, even those with full American citizenship, simply because they were Japanese.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago

Lol come on. You know what will happen. You just don’t want to say it out loud. Edit: To be clear.... less Chinese will be allowed into the United States given the threat. Light the comments up my lads.

president 7y ago
Internment like in WW2? Probably not. Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  > Internment like in WW2? Probably not. I wasn't thinking in such drastically illegal terms to be candid... so: no. > Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers. I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it gets bad enough, total denial of all visas. (I don't feel a kinship with China that I do with Mexico/Latin-America and Canada.) This is a long term threat. I don't want any short term reactionary type policy. I want a strategic policy that addresses the threat, not just our emotions in the current times. Edit: Lol the Chinese are out in force tonight.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it gets bad enough, total denial of all visas. (I don't feel a kinship with China that I do with Mexico/Latin-America and Canada.) No, that's dumb. The answer is to let the students in, maybe push them away from militarily sensitive areas of research, and improve the education they receive in the US to counter CCP propaganda narratives. If the later is done, maybe we can actually realize the hopes of someday liberalizing China. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-education-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/world/asia/hong-kong-prot...
    - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
      > The answer is to let the students in [...] How about no. I'm tired of this bullshit meme. We've done this for 25 years and it has not made a god-damned difference except for causing a drain of intellectual property from the US to China. The [privileged] students can suffer in China alongside the plebs for all I care. They are not in our national interest and no comment on HN will change that fact.
- yupolerist 7y ago
  Maybe a Chinese Exclusion Act 2.0? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
ackbar03 7y ago
I don't think genocide is an option anymore

quotz 7y ago

we should do to spies what we have always done

Aperocky 7y ago

Moles are not unique to China, it just happens that China currently happens to be the enemy. Most people whether immigrant or not just want to get the work done and go home.

president 7y ago
The situation is a bit more unique with Chinese working/studying abroad. Since most of their families, friends, and relatives are still in China, they can be coerced by the CCP to engage in espionage out of fear of hurting their families.
- z2 7y ago
  I'm confused by your main point. Do you mean, as opposed to other foreign workers and students on temporary work/student visas, who can somehow migrate their friends and family over and therefore be subject to less coercion?
  - president 7y ago
    No, I was pointing out that China is unique in that they would have no moral qualms in coercing their citizens abroad using violence. I'm sure my coworkers from the EU probably don't ever have to worry about being in a situation where they would have to choose between spying or hurting their family.
    - TkTech 7y ago
      I agree with you (Someone from France doesn't have to worry about the modern version of China's 9 generation purge[1]), but as a Canadian it's very common to see the Chinese students here wildly supportive of the CCP, including harassing and attacking Hong Kong protesters. I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. With a billion and a half citizens it's unlikely they lack for fanatics to exploit. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations

jonathanyc 7y ago

If history and the other comments here give any indication, we’ll deal with it by shooting ourselves in the foot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen

thinkcontext 7y ago

There's a crackdown underway. "Is it police work or racial profiling? U.S. crackdown puts Chinese scholars on edge" https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-china-racial-profiling-university-fbi-spy https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-21/trump-ch...

microcolonel 7y ago
Well, when your adversary is effectively an ethnostate (at least in terms of the classes capable of travel), scrutiny on their nationals is going to be harder to distinguish from racial profiling (if most Chinese people where you're at are new). At least, we should be monitoring Confucius Institute outposts and scams/blackmail making Chinese nationals vulnerable in the U.S. and Canada.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Well, when your adversary is effectively an ethnostate I would be willing to bet there is precisely zero wailing about “Han supremacy” on Chinese campuses too. I’ll further bet there are precisely zero “Pooh is not my president-for-life” protests either.
ddiq 7y ago
Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chinese are highly ethnocentric.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  During WW2, there was an internment camp called Manzanar, where the US put all the Japanese, even those with full American citizenship, simply because they were Japanese.