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“The White Savior Industrial Complex is not about justice,” Teju Cole wrote in 2012. “It is about having a big emotional experience that validates privilege.”

“The White Savior Industrial Complex is not about justice,” Teju Cole wrote in 2012. “It is about having a big emotional experience that validates privilege.” You see this everywhere, like the wealthy people who sign up to feed the homeless Thanksgiving Dinner at the Salvation Army Kitchen. Then later they drive home to their warm mansions while the homeless go back to their cold makeshift cardboard tents under the overpass.

vorpalhex 7y ago
You're right, they shouldn't of fed the homeless.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  Give me a man a fish vs teach a man to fish. The system in the US is broken, the Thanksgiving dinner for the homeless is only a flimsy bandaid, and the real reason it's pernicious is because now the volunteer can sit back in the warm glow of approval on Facebook/Instagram and think "There! Now I've done my part".
  - isoskeles 7y ago
    What's pernicious is the attitude that helping people and treating them likes humans, in the real world, can be turned into some act of malice where we can assume the worst about the intentions of the people doing it. That said, I do think it's silly and pointless to "help" on Thanksgiving. These places are overrun with volunteers on Thanksgiving but not at other times of the year.
  - chii 7y ago
    >"There! Now I've done my part". they indeed have done their part. The problem isn't caused by these people.
    - fatbird 7y ago
      It’s also not solved by them, despite the warm glow they get from dishing out mashed potatoes once a year.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      There's a very strong argument that wealth inequality does in fact cause problems like systemic homelessness. One person hoarding massive amounts of wealth generates a much smaller number of jobs and opportunities than many people having a moderate amount of wealth. So, maybe they do cause these problems.
      - chii 7y ago
        the thing is, these rich people aren't storing their wealth under their mattress or burying their gold. their wealth is tied in stocks, so a lot of it is on paper. They also would invest their wealth (as inflation would erode it). Investment means more jobs, more work opportunities for those who don't have any. the problem lies in policy. Things like stock buy back schemes and tax "loopholes". But these have nothing to do with the rich, and everything to do with government.
        onion2k 7y ago
        Investment means more jobs, more work opportunities for those who don't have any. The point I was making is that having lots of small investors usually leads to more job creation than one big one because small investors tend to invest in smaller, less efficient companies. That inefficiency is actually good if you want more jobs. Also, a billionaire buying a $100m yacht from a Korean shipbuilder is great for creating jobs in Korea, but it doesn't help much at home. Having a bigger middle class means more of the money goes in to the local economy. Another reason against individuals hoarding huge amounts of money.
        WalterBright 7y ago
        > That inefficiency is actually good if you want more jobs. Inefficiency does not create jobs. It means you can't compete and you spent the money and went out of business. > a billionaire buying a $100m yacht from a Korean shipbuilder is great for creating jobs in Korea, but it doesn't help much at home Because of the way trade works, equal value flows both ways.
  - oh_sigh 7y ago
    Should you let a man starve while he is learning to fish?
- fatbird 7y ago
  They shouldn’t feed the homeless on a marquee holiday and then ignore the problem the other 364 days of the year; nor should they feel like feeding them directly does anything to address the underlying systemic issues that create or sustain the problem in the first place. The main criticism of Thanksgiving charity is that it’s about making the privileged feel generous without solving any problems at all, and in fact blinds the privileged to any need to do more than they are on one day a year.
cm2012 7y ago
"the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: 'theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'"
- cyborgx7 7y ago
  This quote doesn't apply to this at all. That quote is making fun of centrists. You are applying it from a centrist perspective to a leftist argument about individual acts of charity not contributing to the solution of systematic issues.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    Sometimes you have to give a man a fish before you can teach them to fish, or even buy them a nice fishing boat. It's disingenuous to claim that the former is not "contributing to the solution of systematic issues", simply because it doesn't directly address those.
    - cyborgx7 7y ago
      Nobody is against feeding the homeless in soup kitchens. And it's disingenuous to imply anyone said so. The problem is that this is usually all these rich people do. Often times actively working against the systematic changes that would be necessary to solve the problem.
danans 7y ago
It also parallels the billionaire philanthropy complex (and related tax avoidance) that Rutger Bregman called out at Davos, ruffling the feathers of the billionaires attending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ijiLqfXP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ijiLqfXP0
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
itronitron 7y ago
>> It is about having a big emotional experience that validates privilege. I'm not sure about that, the privilege is already validated. The emotional experience is there to amp up appreciation for what they have. If that makes them less likely to road rage the following week then we can call that a win-win.
pjc50 7y ago
It's very much like the parable of the man throwing starfish back into the sea - "I made a difference to that one" - except some people throw exactly one starfish and then blame the rest for their laziness.
Vaskivo 7y ago
Yes, that is true. But, do we want people doing charity for the wrong reasons or do we want them not to do it at all? Related link: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billionaire-philanthropy/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billio...

vorpalhex 7y ago

You're right, they shouldn't of fed the homeless.

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
Give me a man a fish vs teach a man to fish. The system in the US is broken, the Thanksgiving dinner for the homeless is only a flimsy bandaid, and the real reason it's pernicious is because now the volunteer can sit back in the warm glow of approval on Facebook/Instagram and think "There! Now I've done my part".
- isoskeles 7y ago
  What's pernicious is the attitude that helping people and treating them likes humans, in the real world, can be turned into some act of malice where we can assume the worst about the intentions of the people doing it. That said, I do think it's silly and pointless to "help" on Thanksgiving. These places are overrun with volunteers on Thanksgiving but not at other times of the year.
- chii 7y ago
  >"There! Now I've done my part". they indeed have done their part. The problem isn't caused by these people.
  - fatbird 7y ago
    It’s also not solved by them, despite the warm glow they get from dishing out mashed potatoes once a year.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    There's a very strong argument that wealth inequality does in fact cause problems like systemic homelessness. One person hoarding massive amounts of wealth generates a much smaller number of jobs and opportunities than many people having a moderate amount of wealth. So, maybe they do cause these problems.
    - chii 7y ago
      the thing is, these rich people aren't storing their wealth under their mattress or burying their gold. their wealth is tied in stocks, so a lot of it is on paper. They also would invest their wealth (as inflation would erode it). Investment means more jobs, more work opportunities for those who don't have any. the problem lies in policy. Things like stock buy back schemes and tax "loopholes". But these have nothing to do with the rich, and everything to do with government.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        Investment means more jobs, more work opportunities for those who don't have any. The point I was making is that having lots of small investors usually leads to more job creation than one big one because small investors tend to invest in smaller, less efficient companies. That inefficiency is actually good if you want more jobs. Also, a billionaire buying a $100m yacht from a Korean shipbuilder is great for creating jobs in Korea, but it doesn't help much at home. Having a bigger middle class means more of the money goes in to the local economy. Another reason against individuals hoarding huge amounts of money.
        WalterBright 7y ago
        > That inefficiency is actually good if you want more jobs. Inefficiency does not create jobs. It means you can't compete and you spent the money and went out of business. > a billionaire buying a $100m yacht from a Korean shipbuilder is great for creating jobs in Korea, but it doesn't help much at home Because of the way trade works, equal value flows both ways.
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  Should you let a man starve while he is learning to fish?
fatbird 7y ago
They shouldn’t feed the homeless on a marquee holiday and then ignore the problem the other 364 days of the year; nor should they feel like feeding them directly does anything to address the underlying systemic issues that create or sustain the problem in the first place. The main criticism of Thanksgiving charity is that it’s about making the privileged feel generous without solving any problems at all, and in fact blinds the privileged to any need to do more than they are on one day a year.

cm2012 7y ago

"the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: 'theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'"

cyborgx7 7y ago
This quote doesn't apply to this at all. That quote is making fun of centrists. You are applying it from a centrist perspective to a leftist argument about individual acts of charity not contributing to the solution of systematic issues.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  Sometimes you have to give a man a fish before you can teach them to fish, or even buy them a nice fishing boat. It's disingenuous to claim that the former is not "contributing to the solution of systematic issues", simply because it doesn't directly address those.
  - cyborgx7 7y ago
    Nobody is against feeding the homeless in soup kitchens. And it's disingenuous to imply anyone said so. The problem is that this is usually all these rich people do. Often times actively working against the systematic changes that would be necessary to solve the problem.

danans 7y ago

It also parallels the billionaire philanthropy complex (and related tax avoidance) that Rutger Bregman called out at Davos, ruffling the feathers of the billionaires attending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ijiLqfXP0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ijiLqfXP0

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

itronitron 7y ago

>> It is about having a big emotional experience that validates privilege. I'm not sure about that, the privilege is already validated. The emotional experience is there to amp up appreciation for what they have. If that makes them less likely to road rage the following week then we can call that a win-win.

pjc50 7y ago

It's very much like the parable of the man throwing starfish back into the sea - "I made a difference to that one" - except some people throw exactly one starfish and then blame the rest for their laziness.

Vaskivo 7y ago

Yes, that is true. But, do we want people doing charity for the wrong reasons or do we want them not to do it at all? Related link: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billionaire-philanthropy/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billio...