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Why did a humpback whale save a seal's life? (2016)
- sunstone 7y agoAnd why do killer whales never kill humans in the wild?
- elbrian 7y agoWhy? (Is this a setup for a joke?)
- rabidrat 7y agoThey were named 'killer' for some reason, but the only known attacks on humans are from Orcas in captivity. They're not innocuous and sweet, of course, but they got a bad rep for a couple decades and so weren't a 'charismatic' species to save, and their populations suffered greatly as a result. See "Blackfish" the documentary.
- telesilla 7y agoWhalers called them Killer Whales, perhaps originally Whale killers, from observation of their behavior
- JackFr 7y ago'Blackfish' was an excellent documentary, and I came away from it fully believing that we shouldn't hold orcas in captivity. A chilling (and fascinating) point in the movie is that when one of the orcas nearly kills a trainer, the killer whale doesn't bite or buffet the trainer, but instead holds him underwater to drown him.
- golover721 7y agoIt’s incorrect to say that the only attacks have been in captivity. There have been a couple of documented “attacks” on humans in the wild. One which required extensive stitches. It is true that there there have been no documented deaths from Orca attacks in the wild. Scientists believe the attacks are just a case of mistaken identity and that is why the damage has been minimal. As soon as the Orca realized that it was not a seal or something else they like to eat, they backed off.
- senorjazz 7y agoHuman beings don't really share the same habitats with orcas? Maybe we don't taste good?
- sunstone 7y agoThey eat deer and moose swimming by (transients), not to mention sea lions. There are a lot of divers in their waters world wide.
- pvaldes 7y agoThey can do it, in fact.
- sunstone 7y agoTrue enough they can, but they don't.
- pvaldes 7y agoWe had discussed this here before, killer whales are a complex of species, comprising maybe four or five different species. Some species eat fish and other eat mammals. Killer whale species that eat fish are smaller and either ignore people or will shown curiosity about people. They spy, play, snoop or even steal fish from people. They live in the coast. Killer whale species that eat mammals are bigger, they hunt dolphins, seals, sea lions and fin whales. They can attack, and most probably they will attack people if they have the slighest opportunity. They gladly hunt polar bears that are bigger than any human and have much stronger fangs and claws They are pelagic or live in arctic regions so if you fall to the water you are dead yet in any case.
- sunstone 7y agoThe population of mammal eaters is growing quickly now around Vancouver. Stay tuned.
- golover721 7y agoBecause humans tend not to be the ice cold water that Orcas tend to inhabit?
- sunstone 7y agoJust one example, there are probably hundreds of divers in the ocean between San Francisco and Alaska every day, and there also hundreds of Orca in those same waters every day. And yet the record stands. And that's just one coast line.
- Bendingo 7y agoOrcas have also been know to cooperate with humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_South_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...
- fallingfrog 7y agoThe simple answer might be the right one, it just felt bad for the seal. Nobody really knows how intelligent humpback whales are.
- hurrdurr2 7y agoI suspect they are much smarter than we give them credit for. It is also why I feel commercial whaling (or in Japan's case "scientific research") is such a horrific thing to do.
- senorjazz 7y agowith that said, I suppose you don't eat pig or cow products?
- UncleOxidant 7y agoOr octopus.
- simmanian 7y agoI agree that we should all eat less meat and the way we treat "factory" animals is cruel. But with that said, would you really argue hunting chimpanzees is the same as killing pigs? My point is, it's not wrong to apply different standards for different animals. GP says they feel whaling is wrong because they relate more to whales than they do with cows or pigs. If GP sees news articles on how cows are actively saving other helpless animals from getting hunted, maybe they'll start applying similar standards to cows too. You may find this illogical and annoying, but bringing up cows and pigs in this way is not constructive in my opinion.
- hurrdurr2 7y agoI do eat pig and cow products. Damn, I guess I'm a hypocrite. You caught me. Congrats on winning an internet argument.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoThen you should be horrified by the way pigs are being held. They are very smart.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoI know somebody who studied orcas in school and she said that humpbacks tend to give orcas a hard time whenever they meet them. It’s understandable since orcas often attack their young ones.
- golover721 7y agoYes exactly, and thats what the article says.
- a11r 7y agoThe hypothesis at the end of the article assumes humpback whales are just acting instinctively. I think it is much more likely that the whales are able to reason that denying other prey to their babies' predator is a good thing. In addition to keeping the orca population in check and reducing the energy available to them, the humpbacks might also be fully capable of holding a grudge.
- jcampbell1 7y agoAgreed. “You’re a dick, no food for you” seems much more plausible than “seals are cute, so I’ll be nice”.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y agoWhere in the article does it state 'cute' was a factor?
- sliken 7y agoInstinctively? Dunno, whales seem pretty smart. They communicate, they take care of their young, have advanced feeding strategies, and interesting interactions with humans. Seems quite plausible they understand the relationship between feeding, reproduction, and population growth. They are clearly aware that killer whales feed on baby humpback whales. Doesn't seem a stretch that humpbacks would do whatever they can to prevent killer whales from feeding.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ngcc_hk 7y agoYou can also argue the other way round. Just let them have it would save their attacks on us humpback babies. Not humpback anyway. Starving them with non-humpback, they might try ... selfish conclusion should be not saving. That is why this silly logic is just a non-answer.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
- lalos 7y agoMight be that they are feeling pressure in the environment making them more aggressive for whatever is remaining of their habitat. Also, a shrinking ice habitat will make it more probable that they will cross paths. This are just thoughts, not an expert.
- mruts 7y agoButts
- rossdavidh 7y agoSo, as in many cases when scientists (or science writers) discuss the motivations of mammals with big brains, they go to a lot of effort to avoid the obvious conclusion, which is that the humpback did it for a similar reason to why a human might make a coyote lay off an attack on a raccoon or possum. We wouldn't always, but plenty of humans would, and it wouldn't be for any particularly abstract or intellectual reason, it's more like, "the coyote is being mean, make it stop because I can." Sometimes, scientists remind me of mid-20th century behaviorists trying to explain human behavior.
- jjtheblunt 7y agowell said
- slg 7y agoIsn't the entire idea of "being mean" an abstract and intellectual idea? Furthermore that thought process would have a number of complex implications. Do whales equate eating another animal with "being mean"? Does that mean they view hunting as "wrong" in some way? Do they have guilt over continuing to hunt? Are there some whales that morally object to hunting? Is there some orca out there that feeds on plankton because it is the whale equivalent of a morally motivated vegan? It is much cleaner to isolate the motivation and equate it with something more animalistic like "it is instinctually initiating a preemptive attack on a predator and the seal was just a lucky but coincidental bystander".
- gerbilly 7y ago> Isn't the entire idea of "being mean" an abstract and intellectual idea? Not really, it boils down to harm prevention. I believe that, as humans, we greatly overestimate our own reliance or abstract ideas. If we notice someone is harming another, and we intervene, we simply act. The explanation for our behaviour (someone was being mean) comes later as post-hoc rationalisation. Ironically, we then further rationalise and extrapolate from this incorrect idea that human behaviour comes from a fount of abstract values and ideas, and use it to devalue animals and their behaviour (assuming they have no complex cognition, and so must be dumb).
- cryptozeus 7y agoMay be it could not see properly and thought seal was a baby whale.
- JackFr 7y ago"I thought it was my cousin."
- ngcc_hk 7y agoCrazy that the commentators have to insist on selfish reason in the end. May be for one second even if unthinkable for human that whale has a good heart. Good save.
- rosybox 7y agoIs letting the killer whales starve the act of a good heart?
- BurningFrog 7y agoYeah, I'd believe more in the "it really hates killer whales" theory.
- watertom 7y agoThe enemy of my enemy is my friend.
- danans 7y agoMaybe they do it for similar reasons humans have for finding baby non human mammals cute and worth saving? That said, do we know why we find baby non human mammals cute? I've always figured that it was a false positive based on features shared with human babies.
- kcolford 7y agoIt may be a false positive on our part. But for animals that are likely to be in contact with humans it's a true positive.
- undershirt 7y agoSETI pointed at the sky, with intelligent species abound at home.
- JackFr 7y ago"If a lion could talk, we would not understand him." I would differentiate being able to characterize the behavior from being able to 'understand' the behavior. If for the sake of argument, we assume orcas and humpback whales have higher brain functions around the level of humans, I would argue it's still impossible for us to understand the humpbacks motivation because his mind is completely alien to ours.
- dmix 7y agoAll life on earth comes from the same competitive biology though. The motivations of all species and organisms follow some predictable trends and patterns. The ROI of preemptively attacking a predator while the dolphins are busy/tired from hunting while also taking food away from them in the process isn't a giant mystery. The chances of it being Occam's Razor competition being species is just as likely as it crossing some higher abstract threshold for actually caring about some other 3rd party specie's individual survival because they're 'nice' or disgusted by the site (as others in this thread have implied). Ultimately they don't seem to face much personal risk while doing this as the Killer Whales aren't big enough to take them on.
- circlefavshape 7y agoI think Wittgenstein was probably wrong about lions.
- donaq 7y agoIsn't it possible that a significant fraction of mature humpback whales have had bad encounters with killer whales when they were younger and just always mess with them when they can?
- chmod775 7y agoI hate this tendency of trying to reduce the behavior of conscious living things (such as whales, dolphins etc.), who are capable of emotions to simple "inadvertent" rules. That's like saying: I believe Mr. Pittman, who is otherwise capable of complex behavior, did not consider the meaning of his words before uttering them. What he said was simply an inadvertent response to being asked a question. You wouldn't even say that about a dog following orders.