42 ms·
'We good now China?' South Park creators issue mock apology
- siruncledrew 7y agoWhat’s kinda funny is how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes[0] and China didn’t care at all about the show, but last week’s episode was the one that set them off. [0] “The China Probrem”: https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8 https://images.app.goo.gl/mDqxY6pSuNHtA66M8
- est31 7y agoThat episode is 10 years old and falls under the pre-Xi era leadership. Under Xi, authoritarianism in China has been increased next to China enforcing such policies beyond their own borders.
- segfaultbuserr 7y agoIt shows the current political climate is unusual.
- coldtea 7y agoSometimes it just shows that something got viral where others didn't. You could have 200 things mentioning a country or situation, and only 1 or 2 going viral and getting some kind of major response. It's not like South Park is the only show making fun of China either -- so of 100s of shows and comedy sketches, etc, it was some part that touched a nerve or accidentally got more popular there...
- segfaultbuserr 7y agoI'd say it also shows that during the period of intensified political pressure, things are more likely to go viral and trigger a strong reaction.
- waterhouse 7y agoGoing off the Wikipedia plot summary of the episode, it looks like it makes fun of (a) Chinese-American people (not the Chinese government); and (b) paranoid fantasies of Westerners about China invading the U.S.; and ultimately "Cartman decides he'd rather be Chinese than "a nation of unethical dick shooters"". My model of the Chinese government at the moment is that they primarily care about opposition/disrespect/criticism of the Chinese government. Does anyone have data points as to whether they care about, say, present-day racist insults of (a) Chinese-Americans; (b) Chinese living in China? Might be interesting to see where the lines are drawn.
- chrisweekly 7y agoWithout touching on the ethical / moral aspect of stereotyping or disrespecting large groups of people, I'm curious if "racist" is the right adjective here, vs some other term that relates more to nationality vs biological ethnicity?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- waterhouse 7y agoI think it is the right adjective for what I have in mind. Scenarios I was looking to compare include "Celebrity uses race-based insults (e.g. slurs, references to stereotypical physical attributes) against a Chinese-American, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity uses race-based insults against a Chinese person living in China, or a group of them", vs "Celebrity condemns X action by the Chinese government". Ideally, one could find incidents of each type with similarly high-profile celebrities at similarly high-profile events, and then compare the responses.
- SmirkingRevenge 7y agoThe way South Park employs xenophobic/racist/sexist tropes is interesting - they are either so silly that its really hard for anyone to take offense, or they spread it around so much - no one group is ever singled out - and no one group is ever spared. That gives us all permission to laugh at them, and laugh at ourselves, when the time comes. Or... the portrayal isn't actually targeting group of the character embodying the trope. It's targeting those that hold such tropes, in a way that exposes the absurdity of them. There was a movie few years ago, Tropic Thunder. Robert Downy Jr is in black-face the entire movie, and it's hilarious - and somehow he isn't cancelled. Why? His character in the movie is a white, self-serious method actor (he stays in character all the time), who had medical treatments to alter the pigment of his skin in order to portray the African-American lead in a movie. And his depiction is one giant super charged trope. But the actual butt of the joke isn't black people - its actually the pretentious actors and Hollywood in general. In essence, its making a statement about the absurdity, self-importance, actors, studios, etc in Hollywood, and the lack of the social justice and equality there. South Park wields "*ist" tropes in a similar way, and I think its incorrect to think of it as racism, or xenophobia, etc. In South Park, there's one black character in the cast, and his name is Token. As in the token black kid. Out of context, and on its face, it might seem racist. But its saying something else, just like RDJ's role in Tropic Thunder.
- avcdsuia 7y ago> how made fun of China was in past South Park episodes Well, stereotypes of Chinese aren't eloquent enough to piss off the CCP. As a mainlander, Band in China is a spot-on satire about China under Xi's ruling (apart from the background music), and every threat to the legitimacy of the authority would be quenched while making fun of Chinese ppl is by no means harmful.
- drawkbox 7y agoComedy is not dead. Comedy can change minds. Comedy is powerful and attacks the self-important and authoritarianism. Comedy can take on serious challenges in the best way. > John Cleese in On Creativity said: "the self-important always know with some level of their consciousness that their egotism is going to be punctured by humor -- that's why they see it as a threat. And so {they} dishonestly pretend that their deficiency makes their views more substantial, when it only makes them feel bigger. {John blows "raspberries" with his tongue.} No, humor is an essential part of spontaneity, an essential part of playfulness, an essential part of the creativity that we need to solve problems, no matter how 'serious' they may be. " [1] Not everyone is appeasing authoritarians, definitely not South Park. China is Cartman right now "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!" [1] https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544 https://youtu.be/Pb5oIIPO62g?t=1544
- smitty1e 7y agoComedy is threatened by corporations and people assuming the position for tyranny.
- magashna 7y agoMaybe corporate comedy. There will always be a joke in dark places. You can find books written from the jokes told by those in the Nazi concentration camps.
- Shivetya 7y agoComedy faces a greater threat from the "woke" #metoo crowd at colleges and online than any profit seeking corporate entity.
- louthy 7y agoSlight tangent: A previous episode of South Park (Super Best Friends) also showed a picture of Muhammad [1], which caused zero problems. A later one (Cartoon Wars) had Muhammad censored by Comedy Central because it was after the furore over the Dutch Muhammad cartoons. I guess with all these things it’s about context and the political climate. [1] https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00MDJiLTlkZGQtMThhYWE3NjE3YjkzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQxOTQ3OTU@._V1_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjJmMTUzOGEtYjEyNS00...
- throwaway13372 7y agoHad any one or any group of people left any impression that they can be consistent across long time frame? If so, let me know, I'd be very interested in studying their logic thinking and memory, and how they manage to be consistent at all. That said, there are billions of reasons why things was reacted this way or ignored altogether, and later differently. That's the norm.
- SyneRyder 7y agoMore discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21186916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21186916
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- peteretep 7y agoThere was a time when the fact that they’re Americans would definitely protect their right to do stuff like this, but these days I’d worry that China will invalidate some Ivanka trademarks, and the creators will find themselves under very heavy pressure from above.
- Chris2048 7y agoFrom who? Trump?
- chance_state 7y agoDo you think he's above using his power to help his daughter's handbag company? Because he isn't.
- diveanon 7y agoI truly doubt they would cave to any pressure at all. Those two thrive on this kind of controversy, I can basically picture them sitting back and rubbing their nipples while watching this unfold. We need more people like Trey Parker and Matt Stone who aren't afraid of starting some controversy to get a conversation started. They choose to do it through cartoons and satire, but I honestly believe they understand our society at a fundamental level.
- kfrzcode 7y agoThey're truly geniuses
- blzrdnofreespch 7y agoCompletely agree. Despite all the signage of empathy (philanthropy, speeches, etc.) I struggle to think of more “real” people in Hollywood.
- ghostcluster 7y agoYou have to give some credit to Viacom, the media company, for allowing the show to air. Viacom owns Comedy Central, MTV, Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, and CBS among other media properties. They certainly have business interests in China.
- Meai 7y agoIn my opinion this fight is important but futile at the level of individual companies. The USA as the only nation in the world with true free speech protections should make free speech a requirement in their trade negotiations. Even with Europe, we should not get certain tariff improvements until free speech goes into law that deserves the name and is equivalent to the US level of free speech.
- wjoe 7y ago"The USA as the only nation in the world with true free speech protections" Is this accurate? Legally, I understand that free speech is protected in the US constitution. I'm sure it's not the only country in the world with free speech laws, but I don't know how the specifics compare. Culturally, the US seems less tolerant of free speech than plenty of other places in the world. Obviously China is orders of magnitude worse, both culturally and legally speaking.
- mwyah 7y agoGo to Europe and say the holocaust didn't happen, see what occurs. In fact many countries in Europe have blasphemy laws and they uphold them: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-free-speech-criticize-muhammad-echr-ruled/574174/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...
- throwaway66920 7y agoMeanwhile in America you are liable for insulting vegetables https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws Point is, every country has exceptions, and indexing on irrelevant edge cases isn’t especially useful. America is pretty darn good at free speech. But so is, say, Canada.
- j8014 7y agoThat has nothing to do with free speech. If I grow some vegetables and sell them and you come along and start advertising that they are poisonous with 0 evidence you can be sued by me for damages.
- parkersweb 7y agoClick the link to watch the episode: https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/gb.jpg https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/gb.j... The irony is not lost...
- haasted 7y agoSlightly more racy when trying from Denmark: https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/dk.jpg https://southpark.cc.com/sitewide/img/messages/geoblock/dk.j...
- stanski 7y agoBut the money!
- Paul-ish 7y agoI'm not sure what your point here is?
- chrisjc 7y agoI think parkersweb is trying to equate regional licensing issues to authoritarian censorship?
- mhandley 7y agoI think the irony is that South Park is self-censoring for the European market. I know that's not equivalent to state censorship, but it's still ironic.
- capableweb 7y agoThat's not true. When I've been living in one of 5+ European countries, South Park has always been available. You just have to follow the link in the bottom and use the regional version of the website. No self censoring here.
- beerandt 7y agoSouth Park has been censored by Comedy Central before.
- delfinom 7y agoThere's potentially going to be more to come in Wednesday's episode given their "apology" and it may start WW3.
- Phillips126 7y agoComparing the causes of WW1[0] and WW2[1], seeing the name "South Park" on the WW3 wikipedia page [assuming the world still exists] would be the most bizarre thing I could imagine. That being said, it may just happen! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_I [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_World_War_II
- jotm 7y agoThat would go down as the single dumbest reason of civilization collapse, surely?
- Phillips126 7y agoWithout a doubt!
- major505 7y agoOr the best! you know what they say, if you gonna F things up, do it in a epic way.
- SimbaOnSteroids 7y agoIt would be up there with everyone turning on their hair dryers at the same time.
- dekhn 7y agoI have to say, this is really the only way to respond to China when it comes to their no-humor censors: just come out and mock them. They don't really have any way to reply. One wonders if there is an entire revolutionary class within China sharing South Park videos for freedom.
- throwaway_bad 7y agoSometimes we forget that getting disappeared in china is not just a meme. Police will show up to arrest you just for posting comments online: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOAbkTs_a4
- dekhn 7y agoi certainly don't forget. I've been watching Russia and China from a very safe position of privilege in the US for many years. The last time I really worried was when I used to post dumb stuff on usenet in college, but in retrospect, I was never really at risk.
- StaticRedux 7y agoIt's not privilege. It's a right the country has fought and died for for over 200 years. It's a principle the country was founded on. "Privilege" has lost all meaning in today's world. It's just a word to throw around to slow how "woke" you are. Calling our rights "privilege" is throwing out the struggle and sacrifice of everyone that fought for those rights. You may have been Lucky to have been born in the US, but not Privileged
- dekhn 7y agoI understand where you're coming from and I thought twice about using that word. I certainly appreciate the work done to give me freedoms, and I agree luck had a big part of it. But the reality is that as a white middle class male in the US, I do have the privilege to say things and do things in public that people who aren't white or middle class can't. The freedoms we have aren't equally distributed due to systemic racism and sexism. I'm pretty anti-woke, actually, I hate the term.
- zarro 7y agoBefore this episode I always wondered why they kept making those bad transformers movies, turns out China loves em. I think its fine if people want to make movies for the China market, but what I find alarming is copycat behavior trying to bring that sort of censorship here. It doesn't make any sense to me why anyone should apologize or censor themselves creatively just because someone got salty about it. I find the notion limiting someones creative expression to someone else's judgement of "appropriate" to be despicably egregious. Sure you can vote with your dollar and time by not watching something you don't like, but its the creators prerogative what to create and what not to create. Anyone arguing the contrary on the effects of censorship has not looked into the origin of the word.
- chc4 7y ago>Before this episode I always wondered why they kept making those bad transformers movies, turns out China loves em. ...Which is hilarious, because they are heavily subsidized by the US military for advertising reasons.
- rossdavidh 7y agoOnce your country's media companies are getting a big chunk of their revenue from another country, though, it is nearly inevitable that they will tend to produce content that is inoffensive in all of those markets. It is similar in mechanism to how a committee is not a great way to be innovative. This is a downside to a globalized media economy which I think has not been widely understood.
- nilkn 7y agoIt's really not about morals at all. It's about money. China is the world's most populous country, and a surprising number of American industries are fairly dependent on revenue from Chinese customers. This effectively gives China indirect control over multiple major US corporations. Until recently, this has been hidden behind the scenes exceptionally well, but the curtains are being pulled aside as China is becoming much more brash in their demands. They're effectively demanding that Americans censor their speech in certain contexts or else China will hurt American corporations doing business there. And they're getting away with it.
- umvi 7y agoI don't get the Winnie the Pooh meme. Is that a real thing Chinese people get upset about?
- bluetidepro 7y agoIt's a meme that came from a picture a few years ago with Xi and Obama. Source: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/xi-jinping https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/xi-jinping > Is that a real thing Chinese people get upset about? Most likely not their people, but their government.
- hevi_jos 7y agoNo. It is a joke that most people in China did about its leader from a picture of Obama. It is the leader, who appointed himself as dictator for life, who can't stand this joke. And has forbidden it. Chinese people laugh at the joke. It is only that the leader finds it not funny at all.
- krilly 7y agoIt's a streisand effect thing. Pooh was banned for one stupid meme, which made him a symbol of the ludicrousness of Chinese censorship and oppression. So yeah, it's a real thing in China
- winnietheppoohj 7y agoYeah it's real https://youtu.be/OubM8bD9kck?t=645 https://youtu.be/OubM8bD9kck?t=645
- kevingadd 7y agoA video game and its publisher both got completely shut down in China over a small reference to the meme hidden in some art: https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/2187566/hit-taiwanese-horror-game-devotion-banned-china-after-hidden-message https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/2187566/hit-taiwane... https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/3/20681075/devotion-china-censorship-publishing-license https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/3/20681075/devotion-china-cen... An entire company permanently shut down! The CN government takes it seriously.
- 7y ago
- dba7dba 7y agoWho knew CCP would be able to censor the west with, gulp, the might dollar. The irony.
- mlillie 7y agoAmericans on any problem: "You've got to vote with your wallet to change the world! That's the spirit of the free market and liberal democracy!" China votes with wallet Americans: "This is 'authoritarianism'"
- dba7dba 7y agoChina doesn't really vote with wallet. It's CCP telling/herding/forcing people of China what to do and the populace is going along, because the alternative isn't pretty for them.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- _bxg1 7y agoI never thought South Park would be America's last hope.
- throwaway13372 7y agoDespite knowing that Chinese people and the government are trained to react poorly to mocking, and there are a long history of why such reaaction is based on factual events in the history. People are still trying to the same thing, instead of engaging a conversation (for both parties). But people need to understand that such mocking will later be used another proof that westerners are not sensitive enough to Chinese people and government's feeling... I am ATM plainly paralyzed by the superficial self-indulged righteousness from both parties...
- paul7986 7y agoAs this yet another reason the U.S. needs to rely on China in terms of manufacturing And other things. The looney tune in office's stance isn't so dumb after all.
- totaldude87 7y agoXi doesn’t look just like Winnie the Pooh at all -- damn that is one heck of an apology LIT AF:)
- taf2 7y agoSo we should meme everything and see how much we can get banned from China ??