10 ms·
Artificial blood developed for patients of any blood type, researchers say
- toomuchtodo 7y agoCan a domain expert comment if this does away with the whole blood donation/testing/storage/logistics system we currently have?
- givinguflac 7y agoOnce in full production, potentially. But currently it's only been tested on rabbits. This could change the face of medicine if successful.
- solidasparagus 7y ago> This could change the face of medicine if successful. Why? Is blood shortage a serious problem in medicine?
- toomuchtodo 7y agoYes, blood shortages are a frequent occurrence, as it's dependent on the frequency and volume of volunteer donors. If this is solution can be scaled up, you would negate the need for the entire blood donation and plasma collection (which is paid for, at least in the US) system overnight. It's a Big Deal.
- derefr 7y agoAn “unlimited blood budget” might obviate hemodialysis in favour of just doing a “blood change”, which—depending on how you do it—may protect the liver and kidneys from things we can’t manage to pull out in a single hemodialysis pass. It might also change the face of surgery. You know the phrase “he’s bleeding out!” Well, who cares? We have blood pressure to spare, now. We could go through a couple gallons during the surgery and it’d be fine. Just hook them up to the tank. Take your time clamping/microsuturing/cauterizing instead of rushing and making mistakes.
- rscho 7y agoUuuh no. Real blood unfortunately does more than transport oxygen. So "hook them up to the tank" isn't a solution, and isn't a problem only in a surgeon's mind.
- TallGuyShort 7y agoWhat other functions of real blood do you have in mind, that this doesn't at least have the potential to do well for a short period of time in emergencies?
- rscho 7y agoWell, what about immune function? It's pretty interesting to have one when and after you're bleeding out... And before you tell me the potential is there, please realize that we currently have only a very partial understanding of how that works, and it would certainly require at least two decades of science to get right.
- TallGuyShort 7y agoI was asking, not arguing.
- rscho 7y agoOk, sorry
- derefr 7y agoI was talking about what this technique would do “if successful”—as in, if developed further. A full solution would likely include “generic” platelets and innate-immune cells into the mix, genetically-modified such that they don’t present graft-host disease; but would likely leave out adaptive-immune cells, leaving those to the marrow to reproduce. (Or, helpfully, not; a “complete blood transplant”, done at the same time as a bone-marrow transplant, would serve as a much more immediate reinitialization of the body’s immune system in the face of autoimmune disease. Right now we try to do that with hemodialysis, but although we filter out the memory B- and T-cells themselves, we don’t manage to [immediately] filter out their chemosignals, so autoimmune response currently continues for a few days.)
- njsubedi 7y agoIn under-developed countries like Nepal, yes. Every year women from rural villages lose their lives because of excessive bleeding. No nearby health facility has a blood type segmentation facility; let alone a blood bank. If the government could provide the artificial blood to such rural villages, we could expect to reduce the maternal mortality rate of Nepal to a great extent.
- solidasparagus 7y agoSo the core issue here is you can't know what type of blood to give? Why would artificial blood solve the problem of no nearby blood banks?
- M2Ys4U 7y agoIf artificial blood has different storage requirements than the real thing, perhaps it'd be easier to have more and more remote blood banks?
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoPer the article, natural blood has to be refrigerated and only lasts for a few weeks, while this stuff is good for over a year at room temp. You wouldn't need a blood bank. Every local clinic could keep a few bags in the supply closet.
- travisp 7y agoIt's not just blood shortage in total numbers (which is a problem), but people who receive transfusions often develop additional antibodies, which makes it even harder for them to receive compatible blood in the future. There are actually millions of "varieties" of blood not just the 8 main types. It can be so hard to find a successful match that blood is sometimes shipped internationally. Emergency situations can be particularly difficult. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/your-blood-type-lot-more-complicated-you-think-180951669/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/your-blood-typ...
- sundvor 7y agoIf significantly fewer people were encouraged to donate, I wonder what that would do to the pool of bone marrow donors. At least in Australia you're encouraged to sign up for this as you donate, which makes it very easy for them to run the needed tests.
- maxerickson 7y agoIt depends on how much it costs and how well it works (in the humans), neither of which is known at this point. A cost competitive artificial blood that works as well as whole blood would have a big impact on the current system. An expensive replacement that wasn't as effective for treatment but had longer shelf life or something like that wouldn't have much impact.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoPaper: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/trf.15427 https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/trf.15427
- vithalreddy 7y agoone more step towards a greater future.
- taneq 7y agoOne where vampires come out of hiding? :P
- chrisco255 7y agoDoes anyone know if this has the same "rejuvenating effects" that young blood has on older patients?
- njsubedi 7y agoProbably not. The "rejuvenating effects" come from the body of young donors, so I don't think the artificial blood contains most of the components that human blood contains.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoCitations for this subthread. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5836258/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5836258/ (Young Blood Rejuvenates Old Bodies: A Call for Reflection when Moving from Mice to Men) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5770779/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5770779/ (Young plasma reverses age‐dependent alterations in hepatic function through the restoration of autophagy) (Money quote: "Recent studies showing the therapeutic effect of young blood on aging‐associated deterioration of organs point to young blood as the solution for clinical problems related to old age.")
- ldoughty 7y agoThank you. I would love to read these sources when I'm able to!
- SolaceQuantum 7y agoCould you link to something to provide context to your language? I've never heard of young blood -> older patient rejuvination, or how such clinical trials could be done safely. A pint of blood from a child is so much...
- cevn 7y agoThere was also a bit in Silicon Valley about how rich old entrepreneurs are hiring young 20 yr old 'blood boys' to transfuse them blood at will. I wonder how true it is.
- BillinghamJ 7y agoThis is really interesting. I wonder whether it truly is compatible with every single person, e.g. even RH-null etc? I also wonder whether religious groups who don't accept blood would potentially accept this.
- elboru 7y ago> I also wonder whether religious groups who don't accept blood would potentially accept this. I understand they don’t accept blood from other people because they believe the blood is tightly related to the soul. So if the blood is 100% artificial I don’t think they would have a reason to not accept it, unless they find another reason, and I’m sure some obscure group will find a reason to not accept artificial blood either.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y agoWith that reasoning, they probably wouldn't want "soulless" blood either.
- vorpalhex 7y agoExcuse me, I only accept organic non-GMO virgin blood...
- Karunamon 7y agoAt least in the case of one of those groups (Jehovah's Witnesses), it's based on a bit of text in the bible saying literally "abstain from blood". Transfusions are no good, including your own blood previously stored. Fractions and products are in a grey area though and left up to personal conscience.
- PyroLagus 7y ago> including your own blood previously stored Wait, really?
- 7y ago
- njsubedi 7y ago>Platelets can be stored for four days if shaken to prevent solidification, while red blood cells can be kept for 20 days at low temperatures. I didn't know that the shelf life of blood is that short. Does this mean it is possible that some portion of blood collected from "blood donation programs" goes waste? Because, in our country (Nepal), dozens of such programs are conducted by the Red Cross all around the country.
- fermuch 7y agoA doctor in charge of a blood extraction campaign explained to me that this is exactly the reason why there is a constant high demand of blood donors. Between hospitals there are exchanges daily of blood (you might have a certain blood type that another hospital needs right now), but a lot of blood does get wasted, because of the short times it has. They also separate blood in different kinds (platelets I think it was the term) since it can be storaged for longer, but is not as useful as a full blood transfer.
- Invictus0 7y agoDo you know if there is any kind of inventory management system that helps blood banks balance their supplies?
- maxerickson 7y agoThey typically operate regionally.
- joquarky 7y agoI don't know the answer to this, but if they do, they should share this information with the public so the public can be aware and more readily volunteer when needed.
- afarrell 7y ago> Does this mean it is possible that some portion of blood collected from "blood donation programs" goes waste? Yes. For any system which regularly collects some resource and distributes it somewhere else, some amount of that resource goes to waste. It is impossible to absolutely eliminate this. Therefore, all resource-distribution systems expect some level of waste.
- hanniabu 7y agoIf I'm not mistaken, it sounds like this is to be used only in emergency situations almost as if it's some type of "filler" that can help keep your blood pressure up of you've lost an extreme amount of blood. It sounds like it may provide more benefits than that, but I say "filler" because it doesn't sound like you can replace all the blood in your body with this artificial blood.
- bryanculver 7y agoSo although there might be “waste”, emergency preparedness shouldn’t be forgotten about. It’s safer and better to have blood available when it’s needed than to be begging for it.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoIt must be a better filler than the ordinary, though because from what I remember being told, there already is a standard filler using in "bloodless surgeries" for people refusing blood transfusions; AFAIR a saline solution is good enough if all you need is to keep the blood pressure up.
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoOn page#2 under "Preparation of HbVs and H12-(ADP)-liposomes" am I reading it correctly that this "artificial" blood is still derived from blood?
- m12k 7y agoYeah, it sounds to me like it's 'artificial' in the same way that orange juice made from concentrate is artificial.
- m-p-3 7y agoThere is a substantial benefit though: The artificial blood can be stored at normal temperatures for more than a year.
- ohashi 7y agoThat seems like a huge improvement, especially in countries or areas without as much infrastructure or disaster scenarios.
- CapricornNoble 7y agoAlso combat medics, CASEVAC aircraft, and field hospitals. Not requiring refrigeration is a HUGE benefit during the "Golden Hour" of casualty care.
- gewa 7y agoIts not really about artificial blood but some platelet replacement based on liposomes. Take a look at the full paper.
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoYeah, that was my take away from the paper, which doesn't describe the blood as artificial, just some of the components. The HN title is a little misleading, which would better read: "Modified blood that can work for all types and has a shelf life up to a year"
- Mizza 7y agoExtremely freaking cool. Any idea how this stuff is manufactured? Can it be produced cheaply enough to potentially replace the entire blood donation system?
- lancepioch 7y agoIt seems like they are able to take existing blood and modify the type so that even people that aren't universal blood donors can still have it used on anybody that needs it.
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoAnd, arguably more importantly, it has a shelf life of over a year at room temp, as opposed to weeks/days even when refrigerated.
- m-p-3 7y agoThat is quite an achievement!
- selimthegrim 7y agoSee also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21110960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21110960
- platz 7y agoHistorically, there have been many efforts in the past to make artificial blood and IIRC they didn't turn out well for the patients. It's a bit like the the body with vitamins. At first they thought vitamins were all you needed - then they started discovering micro-nutrients. Blood is pretty complex - does this include just the highest-order bits of blood, or does it include everything that blood has?
- wbl 7y agoIf I'm bleeding out and the blood bank is dry I'm not going to be so picky. A few weeks later I'll have made my own to replace it.
- LeonM 7y agoObviously, any blood is better then no blood. But will you survive that long on artificial blood if it doesn't contain all the right properties for your body?
- M2Ys4U 7y agoI would have thought that getting blood into trauma patients in the field would be the main application for this? Once back in a hospital setting they could switch to using real blood.
- Blakestr 7y agoParamedic here - two main areas of concern regarding blood in the prehospital/emergency setting - 1 - Volume - You need enough fluid in a closed system to maintain pressure to push that fluid. 2. Oxygen carrying capacity - Oxygen binds with red blood cells which then deliver it to every cell in your body. Right now the prehospital setting can more or less manage #1, we have been for a century with Normal Saline. There is some stuff circulating (pun intended) regarding fluids that can transport oxygen but it will be years before we can use it
- 7y ago
- sajithdilshan 7y agoTrue Blood?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- braunshizzle 7y agoFrom what I understand (also heard about this in a podcast recently), they take existing blood of any type and are able to modify the RH and type. So blood still needs to be donated but it can be any Typs and RH as that is what can be modified to any type and RH now.
- maxerickson 7y agoI wonder if you heard about https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/type-blood-converted-universal-donor-blood-help-bacterial-enzymes https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/06/type-blood-converted... which is a different line of research?
- braunshizzle 7y agoYeah that was it. Reviewing the initial article posted here, it's a different line of research then I was thinking. However it looks like the success rate is still only 60% (when testing on rabbits). The Wiley article on the grant (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427) leaves clues that it's still derived from blood at some point and not entirely artificial. Still very interesting to see that we are making progress towards creating fully artificial, non-type specific blood that anyone can use in a time of need.
- gewa 7y agoThe donored blood was only needed for the plasma base in their trial.
- johnkpaul 7y agoYou think this was made for human patients with any blood type? Fools. This is True Blood™️.
- johnedwards 7y agoCame here to say this. Ssssssssookie!
- francislavoie 7y agoI miss that show. So much fun.
- johnkpaul 7y agoMe too! I was so disappointed that the spin off never happened.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Geee 7y agoHow long until we don't need lungs/heart/digestion/etc. any more? With artificial blood it becomes much easier. I think we'll see the 'brain in a vat' in 20 years. This is a huge step towards immortality.
- kif 7y agoCan’t wait to immortalize myself in a Futurama style head jar.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 7y agoIn the Year 2525.
- newsreview1 7y agoRead the team's actual findings here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427
- gewa 7y agoPlease read the paper carefully. They compared plasma without platelets (PPP, platelet poor plasma) combined with their crafted liposomes to platelet rich plasma (PRP). Therefore some donored plasma was needed, to have only a difference in the platelet concentraton. Their artificialy synthesized liposomes could then replace the platelets in the study.
- gewa 7y agoFig 3. A shows the major difference in bleeding time after administration of the different therapies.
- DesiLurker 7y agoawesome, thats a first step towards putting brain in a jar & super long lifespans. if we can make it with all the nutrients to sustain it then we can shed most of our meat-space parts and interface with neural AI fabric directly.
- danschumann 7y agoAka "beyond meat for vampires"
- transitivebs 7y agoAMAZING news for vampires
- justinator 7y agoBeyond Blood.
- entropicdrifter 7y agoLiterally the premise of TrueBlood
- anonytrary 7y agoAs an O-, this is good news.