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Sadly, telecommunications (Rogers, Telus, Bell) and air transportation (WestJet, Air Canada) are affected by oligopoly. The situation in Quebec is slightly bet

Sadly, telecommunications (Rogers, Telus, Bell) and air transportation (WestJet, Air Canada) are affected by oligopoly. The situation in Quebec is slightly better thanks to a 4th telecom company, Videotron, which brings mobile plans and internet prices lower than in the rest of Canada. It's funny how sometimes you'll see the exactly same "promotion" offerings from the Robelus trio...

ehsankia 7y ago
It's funny how each of these companies also have sub-companies with different brand, like how Videotron started Fizz. I moved back to Quebec a month ago and was doing a survey of the mobile plans: Videotron, Bell, Rogers, Telus, Virgin Mobile, Koodo, Fido and Fizz. It was hilarious, 6/8 companies had the exact same 4 + 5GB for 55$ deal. In the past, every single graph of pricing I've seen shows them all moving together in lock step. It's unbelievable to me that after all these years nothing has been done to solve this. Here's hoping this election this will get more attention from the politicians...
Scoundreller 7y ago
At least with air travel I have (and take advantage of) the opportunity to fly to Europe because it’s not much more than long-haul domestic. Tons of ways to Paris. Not so for Vancouver. And both AC and WestJet were heavily invested in developing a 737MAX fleet...
msbarnett 7y ago
> The situation in Quebec is slightly better thanks to a 4th telecom company, Videotron, which brings mobile plans and internet prices lower than in the rest of Canada. Saskatchewan also sees better prices and promotions due to the presence of Province-owned SaskTel iirc.
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  SaskTel is a bit... all over the place. Sometimes their plans are a great deal, sometimes not. When got my first smartphone, I had a $60CAD/mo unlimited everything plan. You get to stick with your plan until you do a subsidized phone upgrade, so I held onto that for a long long time. When I got a new phone, there were no unlimited plans for two upgrade cycles, and the high data (13GB was my last one) plans were expensive ($110/mo). My most recent upgrade they started offering a $90/mo unlimited plan again. Edit: also, the three major carriers (Rogers, Telus, Bell) generally offer different packages in SK than they do for the rest of the country, to remain competitive with SaskTel. Another fun thing: while Rogers has some towers in the province, the LTE towers are all generally owned by SaskTel and there’s an agreement in place to let the other use them. In exchange, SaskTel customers get to use Bell and Telus towers in the rest of the country without incurring roaming charges. That used to not be the case and we’d be limited to 250MB of data out of province.
  - lstamour 7y ago
    Used to be there were competitive Manitoba plans but Bell bought MTS and those disappeared (now you maybe save $15/month vs the half price it used to be). It’s just a matter of time before one of the big three buys SaskTel, either Bell or Telus most likely. More than telecommunications, it’s irritating how much of cable and network TV is owned by these companies, with lucrative US licensing and distribution rights for many properties so they can sell you a four-way bundle of home phone, cell phone, TV and Internet. So few companies can offer all of the above, and while it’s nice that we’ve CRTC-mandated limited competitive sharing to a limited extent on Internet lines, for everything else the CRTC is incredibly anti-consumer, only going after the worst behaviour when it’s been happening for a decade as “normal”.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      I like to think the people of Sask wouldn’t allow Sasktel to be privatized.
MAGZine 7y ago
Iirc a large part of Canadian airline ticket prices come from the fact that airports impose large fees on tickets to pay for improvements to the facilities, rather than subsidizing the cost from municipal and provincial taxpayers. Canadian airport usage is supported through user taxes rather than general revenue. There are some startups now in Canada offering lower fares but it's not that much cheaper and they frequently fly to international destinations, which are more lucrative anyhow.
- martinald 7y ago
  Most (all?) EU airports are not subsidised by govt (indeed I imagine it would be illegal under EU state support rules). Ryanair/easyJet/wizzair etc all offer crazy low fares.
  - MAGZine 7y ago
    Eu airports also fly significantly less distance, and have significantly higher traffic. Canada has 33MM people with like 8 airports spread out across the size of continental europe (700MM+ people)
angott 7y ago
It's not just telecommunications and air transport. Everywhere you look, you'll find sectors where foreign competition is prohibited or strictly managed in a way that keeps prices artificially high. An example? Cheese. Under CETA (the Canada-EU free trade agreement), only Canadian dairy producers can import cheese from the EU into Canada. These producers will set its price artificially high as to match the price of Canadian cheese plus a premium. This way, they ensure consumers will buy Canadian cheese instead, as it appears to be cheaper. It's just crazy how much lobbying can do.
- martinald 7y ago
  Interesting. What would stop someone else setting up a new dairy producer and import it without applying the crazy markup you mention?
  - angott 7y ago
    You need to be part of the supply management scheme, that is, you need to be producing and supplying milk in Canada. So an import-only business wouldn't be able to do it. I am not too sure on the details, but you can read more about it here: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/as-ceta-looms-canada-braces-for-the-european-cheese-invasion/article34647025/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-comme...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- generatorguy 7y ago
  I have no love for telus, bell, or Rogers. Should Canadians pay a bit of a premium to be able to supply some of the things that we depend on to live ourselves, in our own way, on our own terms? For food I think yes. I am happy to know that the milk and cheese I consume did not come from American mega farms with all their problems.
  - angott 7y ago
    Instead of trade barriers exclusively based on place of origin, you could have food safety rules that enforce animal welfare standards before the product can be sold in Canada. The U.S. also produces higher quality hormone-free milk just as good as the Canadian one, but the artificial trade barriers put in place by Canada make it almost impossible for foreign producers to sell it here, regardless of its quality. It leads to higher prices for final consumers, and at the end of the day only benefits the local dairy industry and the few families behind it.
gimmeThaBeet 7y ago
Videotron also has a network sharing agreement with Rogers though, so their retail behavior is different, but you're basically on Rogers outside Ottawa and Quebec. The comment I wanted to make there is the main reason why Rogers signed that agreement was they got unused Toronto spectrum licenses from Videotron. The big 3 are monsters, but the set-asides that the government does in spectrum auctions imo does more damage in making spectrum more expensive than it does in supporting anyone not named Rogers/Bell/Telus.
aledalgrande 7y ago
You forgot banks. And alcohol (in BC)
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  Alcohol is Canada-wide too! Each province runs its own liquor distribution system. Up until this year, it was impossible for me, in SK, to order a case of wine from a vineyard in BC without having that wine go through SLGA (sask liquor and gaming). The feds seem to have dropped this requirement though [1] and now it’s up to the provinces to work out the rules for interprovincial liquor. [1] https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquor-restrictions/amp/ https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-in...
  - aledalgrande 7y ago
    Oh interesting! [unAMPed link] https://globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquor-restrictions/ https://globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquo...
throw0101a 7y ago
> * Sadly, telecommunications (Rogers, Telus, Bell) and air transportation (WestJet, Air Canada) are affected by oligopoly.* With ISPs, the CRTC (~FCC) has at least forced the incumbent telcos so allow independents access to their Layer 1: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_network I think the US would benefit from such a policy, and it did exist for a short spell around 2000. Doesn't help much in the area of mobile phones though. With regards to air transportation, I would think that most traffic flows more north-south and less east-west, so I'm not sure how many airlines can survive given Canada's population and the distribution thereof. Certainly we do have some 'regionals', Porter out of CYTZ being fairly well-known.

ehsankia 7y ago

It's funny how each of these companies also have sub-companies with different brand, like how Videotron started Fizz. I moved back to Quebec a month ago and was doing a survey of the mobile plans: Videotron, Bell, Rogers, Telus, Virgin Mobile, Koodo, Fido and Fizz. It was hilarious, 6/8 companies had the exact same 4 + 5GB for 55$ deal. In the past, every single graph of pricing I've seen shows them all moving together in lock step. It's unbelievable to me that after all these years nothing has been done to solve this. Here's hoping this election this will get more attention from the politicians...

Scoundreller 7y ago

At least with air travel I have (and take advantage of) the opportunity to fly to Europe because it’s not much more than long-haul domestic. Tons of ways to Paris. Not so for Vancouver. And both AC and WestJet were heavily invested in developing a 737MAX fleet...

msbarnett 7y ago

> The situation in Quebec is slightly better thanks to a 4th telecom company, Videotron, which brings mobile plans and internet prices lower than in the rest of Canada. Saskatchewan also sees better prices and promotions due to the presence of Province-owned SaskTel iirc.

tonyarkles 7y ago
SaskTel is a bit... all over the place. Sometimes their plans are a great deal, sometimes not. When got my first smartphone, I had a $60CAD/mo unlimited everything plan. You get to stick with your plan until you do a subsidized phone upgrade, so I held onto that for a long long time. When I got a new phone, there were no unlimited plans for two upgrade cycles, and the high data (13GB was my last one) plans were expensive ($110/mo). My most recent upgrade they started offering a $90/mo unlimited plan again. Edit: also, the three major carriers (Rogers, Telus, Bell) generally offer different packages in SK than they do for the rest of the country, to remain competitive with SaskTel. Another fun thing: while Rogers has some towers in the province, the LTE towers are all generally owned by SaskTel and there’s an agreement in place to let the other use them. In exchange, SaskTel customers get to use Bell and Telus towers in the rest of the country without incurring roaming charges. That used to not be the case and we’d be limited to 250MB of data out of province.
- lstamour 7y ago
  Used to be there were competitive Manitoba plans but Bell bought MTS and those disappeared (now you maybe save $15/month vs the half price it used to be). It’s just a matter of time before one of the big three buys SaskTel, either Bell or Telus most likely. More than telecommunications, it’s irritating how much of cable and network TV is owned by these companies, with lucrative US licensing and distribution rights for many properties so they can sell you a four-way bundle of home phone, cell phone, TV and Internet. So few companies can offer all of the above, and while it’s nice that we’ve CRTC-mandated limited competitive sharing to a limited extent on Internet lines, for everything else the CRTC is incredibly anti-consumer, only going after the worst behaviour when it’s been happening for a decade as “normal”.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    I like to think the people of Sask wouldn’t allow Sasktel to be privatized.

MAGZine 7y ago

Iirc a large part of Canadian airline ticket prices come from the fact that airports impose large fees on tickets to pay for improvements to the facilities, rather than subsidizing the cost from municipal and provincial taxpayers. Canadian airport usage is supported through user taxes rather than general revenue. There are some startups now in Canada offering lower fares but it's not that much cheaper and they frequently fly to international destinations, which are more lucrative anyhow.

martinald 7y ago
Most (all?) EU airports are not subsidised by govt (indeed I imagine it would be illegal under EU state support rules). Ryanair/easyJet/wizzair etc all offer crazy low fares.
- MAGZine 7y ago
  Eu airports also fly significantly less distance, and have significantly higher traffic. Canada has 33MM people with like 8 airports spread out across the size of continental europe (700MM+ people)

angott 7y ago

It's not just telecommunications and air transport. Everywhere you look, you'll find sectors where foreign competition is prohibited or strictly managed in a way that keeps prices artificially high. An example? Cheese. Under CETA (the Canada-EU free trade agreement), only Canadian dairy producers can import cheese from the EU into Canada. These producers will set its price artificially high as to match the price of Canadian cheese plus a premium. This way, they ensure consumers will buy Canadian cheese instead, as it appears to be cheaper. It's just crazy how much lobbying can do.

martinald 7y ago
Interesting. What would stop someone else setting up a new dairy producer and import it without applying the crazy markup you mention?
- angott 7y ago
  You need to be part of the supply management scheme, that is, you need to be producing and supplying milk in Canada. So an import-only business wouldn't be able to do it. I am not too sure on the details, but you can read more about it here: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/as-ceta-looms-canada-braces-for-the-european-cheese-invasion/article34647025/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-comme...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
generatorguy 7y ago
I have no love for telus, bell, or Rogers. Should Canadians pay a bit of a premium to be able to supply some of the things that we depend on to live ourselves, in our own way, on our own terms? For food I think yes. I am happy to know that the milk and cheese I consume did not come from American mega farms with all their problems.
- angott 7y ago
  Instead of trade barriers exclusively based on place of origin, you could have food safety rules that enforce animal welfare standards before the product can be sold in Canada. The U.S. also produces higher quality hormone-free milk just as good as the Canadian one, but the artificial trade barriers put in place by Canada make it almost impossible for foreign producers to sell it here, regardless of its quality. It leads to higher prices for final consumers, and at the end of the day only benefits the local dairy industry and the few families behind it.

gimmeThaBeet 7y ago

Videotron also has a network sharing agreement with Rogers though, so their retail behavior is different, but you're basically on Rogers outside Ottawa and Quebec. The comment I wanted to make there is the main reason why Rogers signed that agreement was they got unused Toronto spectrum licenses from Videotron. The big 3 are monsters, but the set-asides that the government does in spectrum auctions imo does more damage in making spectrum more expensive than it does in supporting anyone not named Rogers/Bell/Telus.

aledalgrande 7y ago

You forgot banks. And alcohol (in BC)

tonyarkles 7y ago
Alcohol is Canada-wide too! Each province runs its own liquor distribution system. Up until this year, it was impossible for me, in SK, to order a case of wine from a vineyard in BC without having that wine go through SLGA (sask liquor and gaming). The feds seem to have dropped this requirement though [1] and now it’s up to the provinces to work out the rules for interprovincial liquor. [1] https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquor-restrictions/amp/ https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-in...
- aledalgrande 7y ago
  Oh interesting! [unAMPed link] https://globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquor-restrictions/ https://globalnews.ca/news/5149144/bc-inter-provincial-liquo...

throw0101a 7y ago

> * Sadly, telecommunications (Rogers, Telus, Bell) and air transportation (WestJet, Air Canada) are affected by oligopoly.* With ISPs, the CRTC (~FCC) has at least forced the incumbent telcos so allow independents access to their Layer 1: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_network I think the US would benefit from such a policy, and it did exist for a short spell around 2000. Doesn't help much in the area of mobile phones though. With regards to air transportation, I would think that most traffic flows more north-south and less east-west, so I'm not sure how many airlines can survive given Canada's population and the distribution thereof. Certainly we do have some 'regionals', Porter out of CYTZ being fairly well-known.