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Telecom Lobbyists Successfully Remove Canada from Wireless Pricing Report
- jasoneckert 7y agoFor us living in Canada, we know we pay more than anyone else. And we're constantly reminded of how the Bell, Telus and Rogers mafia keeps it that way.
- kennywinker 7y agoYeah, but the reason we know we pay more is reports like this. If this stands, five-to-ten years from now they can say "well actually that's not true anymore blah blah blah our fake reports" and there is no independent data to counter their claims. Smart move on their part.
- gpm 7y agoI live in Canada and everyone says this, I don't think it's really that true. I was in California for this summer - I paid about the same for a cell service there as I do here... All numbers in USD. For a quick comparison of "premium" cell providers, an unlimited (15gb before throttling) verizon wireless line is $70 per month [0]. A comparable Canadian plan for Bell is $56 per month for 10gb before throttling, or $71 per month for 20 gb before throttling. Most people don't pay that much in reality, because of group discounts and so on, but that applies in both cases. The story is similar if we look at budget cell phone providers. Google Fi (US) provides unlimited talk and text for $20gb/month with data for $10gb/month. Freedom mobile (Canada) doesn't provide as much flexibility, and you have to select your amount of data up front, but for any amount of data it's cheaper. E.g. for 2gb it's $30/month instead of $40. [2] [0] https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/ - change the number of lines to 1, this is 15gb data before throttling per their faq https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/verizon-plan-unlimited-faqs/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/verizon-plan-unlimit... [1] Remember to convert CAD to USD https://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Cell_phone_plans/Unlimited-plans https://www.bell.ca/Mobility/Cell_phone_plans/Unlimited-plan... [2] Click on "Freedom Plans" here, remember to convert CAD to USD https://www.freedommobile.ca/en-CA/plans https://www.freedommobile.ca/en-CA/plans
- jammygit 7y agoMy bell plan is 95 CAD and gives 4GB/mo so I’m not sure where your numbers came from. I must have missed that deal
- Scoundreller 7y agoDepends on province. Freedom is creating some competition, hopefully they don’t get crushed.
- jammygit 7y agoI used to use freedom. My wife used to say it was short for “freedom from service.” There were a lot of dead zones in the town I lived and it was useless on road trips. Good prices and terms at least
- Scoundreller 7y agoThey're better than they were: They've got 700MHz spectrum so they can actually penetrate in a building. And they usually include a gb or 2 on Rogers' network. I'm actually tempted to switch, but already on an okay plan from Public where I've learned to ration. Just wish Freedom sold a trial plan or something for a month so I could see what it's like living with them. Paying $50 + $10 SIM + taxes discourages me.
- geoka9 7y ago> And they usually include a gb or 2 on Rogers' network. Is it a relatively new thing? PS. I used to be a customer but switched away because of their very limited coverage.
- Scoundreller 7y agoMaybe. Keeping track of cell phone deals is a full-time job. Meanwhile, residents of other countries just go to the mall, walk out with a plan that'll meet their needs and improves every year, and doesn't think about it again :)
- Scoundreller 7y agoWas visiting a relative without wifi in USA. Random person offers to tether us to their phone. He said something that no Canadian ever says in this situation: “Go wild, it’s unlimited”.
- dragosmocrii 7y agoSadly, telecommunications (Rogers, Telus, Bell) and air transportation (WestJet, Air Canada) are affected by oligopoly. The situation in Quebec is slightly better thanks to a 4th telecom company, Videotron, which brings mobile plans and internet prices lower than in the rest of Canada. It's funny how sometimes you'll see the exactly same "promotion" offerings from the Robelus trio...
- ehsankia 7y agoIt's funny how each of these companies also have sub-companies with different brand, like how Videotron started Fizz. I moved back to Quebec a month ago and was doing a survey of the mobile plans: Videotron, Bell, Rogers, Telus, Virgin Mobile, Koodo, Fido and Fizz. It was hilarious, 6/8 companies had the exact same 4 + 5GB for 55$ deal. In the past, every single graph of pricing I've seen shows them all moving together in lock step. It's unbelievable to me that after all these years nothing has been done to solve this. Here's hoping this election this will get more attention from the politicians...
- Scoundreller 7y agoAt least with air travel I have (and take advantage of) the opportunity to fly to Europe because it’s not much more than long-haul domestic. Tons of ways to Paris. Not so for Vancouver. And both AC and WestJet were heavily invested in developing a 737MAX fleet...
- msbarnett 7y ago> The situation in Quebec is slightly better thanks to a 4th telecom company, Videotron, which brings mobile plans and internet prices lower than in the rest of Canada. Saskatchewan also sees better prices and promotions due to the presence of Province-owned SaskTel iirc.
- tonyarkles 7y agoSaskTel is a bit... all over the place. Sometimes their plans are a great deal, sometimes not. When got my first smartphone, I had a $60CAD/mo unlimited everything plan. You get to stick with your plan until you do a subsidized phone upgrade, so I held onto that for a long long time. When I got a new phone, there were no unlimited plans for two upgrade cycles, and the high data (13GB was my last one) plans were expensive ($110/mo). My most recent upgrade they started offering a $90/mo unlimited plan again. Edit: also, the three major carriers (Rogers, Telus, Bell) generally offer different packages in SK than they do for the rest of the country, to remain competitive with SaskTel. Another fun thing: while Rogers has some towers in the province, the LTE towers are all generally owned by SaskTel and there’s an agreement in place to let the other use them. In exchange, SaskTel customers get to use Bell and Telus towers in the rest of the country without incurring roaming charges. That used to not be the case and we’d be limited to 250MB of data out of province.
- MrBuddyCasino 7y agoTime to post this again: https://palladiummag.com/2019/09/19/how-not-to-build-a-country-canadas-late-soviet-pessimism/ https://palladiummag.com/2019/09/19/how-not-to-build-a-count...
- dang 7y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21101065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21101065
- obtino 7y agoPricing in Canada for mobile plans are downright awful! I can buy a plan from Australia and use it there in Canada for cheaper with international roaming. I remember only 10 years ago that Canadian telcos still considered moving between state lines as ‘roaming’. I don’t know if it’s still the case.
- angott 7y agoSome Canadian carriers are indeed still selling plans with local calls only. In 2019. It's depressing.
- Scoundreller 7y agoIt also means people keep changing their phone number when they move. Whereas US family all still have the same phone number they got in HS/college.
- dev_dull 7y agoI am member when I moved to states and had to change my email, it was really annoying but long-distance email costs were really adding up.
- Scoundreller 7y agoIt's even funnier when you find out that cell phone infrastructure is incredibly centralized. Most calls in Ontario go through Toronto. The only mobile phone innovation in Canada is new ways to charge customers in ways that nobody else does. E.g. charging 15 cents for an incoming text message unless you have a text messaging plan.
- aledalgrande 7y agoYeah! Freedom. Paying CAD45 for 4GB, when in UK I had unlimited data for GBP10. Edit: did the low UK price offend someone?
- 7y ago
- tpmx 7y agoI remember the spectacular pricing of around $10-15/MB in Canadian mobile networks back around 2004-2005, just when 3G was getting started. (So it was really 2G pricing.) As a reference, typical European pricing was around $2/MB at the time, IIRC. The US of course had their typical "plans" that made price comparisons hard. It's fascinating that the network owners in Canada have managed to keep prices so high, for so long. We were launching a mobile J2ME-based service back then; I remember thinking we'd get back to Canada when they'd got their data pricing in order but that never happened...
- Scoundreller 7y agoCanadians' situation is definitely an after-thought for app developers. The NPR app keeps pre-buffering several hundred mb of audio when I start it and chews through my data. Ugh. And then there's the time my bank forced me to update their app and I wasn't on wifi...
- Scoundreller 7y ago$10/mb vs $2/mb... Things have diverted more. French plans now have 25x the data for lower prices than Canadian plans...
- pm90 7y agoThis is insane... how can the Canadian populace (and by extension, the government) not pass laws that forbid this nonsense? Its incredible that the Canadian people are not up in arms over this shit.
- angott 7y agoAround 2013, the Canadian government considered allowing Verizon to enter the Canadian market by buying WIND Mobile, a small budget carrier which was looking for foreign investors. They were faced with a huge fearmongering campaign orchestrated by the big three carriers, with TV ads like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQv6wwaNyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndQv6wwaNyM Needless to say that Verizon backed out of the deal immediately.
- paulsutter 7y agoWatch that video! It’s a very effective ad (thanks for posting)
- microcolonel 7y agoFun, if a bit rough, parody of that too. https://youtu.be/kC0uMKXsVM4 https://youtu.be/kC0uMKXsVM4 When I was travelling in the U.S. a few weeks ago, I was able to buy a month's unlimited data and North American calling and SMS on some random MVNO from some random phone shop in middle of nowhere NY, including a new SIM and activation, for less than one pays for a month with a cap here in Ontario. Even the corrupt, cronyistic telecom arrangements in the U.S.† are dramatically better than those in Canada. † Not that the U.S. is particularly bad for this, by world standards.
- LeonM 7y agoI recently had a discussion with a colleague about this: Wouldn't it be much more efficient to start a telco with just 1 plan: unlimited everything for a fixed price. Literally just charge $30/month or so (I haven't done the math on what is economically viable) for a flat fee plan. No strings attached, except maybe rate limit after a substantial amount of data to prevent abuse (like 50gb/day). Also: no contracts, let people cancel when they want. And don't sell devices, just the SIM card. This way you'll have: - no need for usage metering systems - very simple billing systems - minimal need for marketing - much less support calls (at least no angry customers due to unexpected costs) - a very simple self-service portal Now, I know I'm being naive here, it'll be next to impossible to start a service like this because the physical infrastructure (the base stations) are owned by the ancient behemoth telcos that have roamed the earth for past century. But just imagine how great a telco can be if you were just to trim the fat, legacy and greed away.
- nahtnam 7y agoI think this will happen with the new wave of telecom companies that rely on satellites instead of ground towers (probably in the next decade or so)
- nordsieck 7y ago> I think this will happen with the new wave of telecom companies that rely on satellites instead of ground towers Maybe. If you look at the total available bandwidth of the satellite systems vs their potential subscriber base, I think metering will probably happen at a lower level than many people expect. Perhaps they'll upgrade to much better radios in the future and the whole issue will be resolved.
- LeonM 7y agoIf only that was technologically feasible...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pjc50 7y ago
- remote_phone 7y agoCanada is a cesspool of oligopolies, from TV to Cell Phone to Banks, etc.The excuse is always “if we don’t then some foreign/US company could come in and destroy our culture.” Which of course is bullshit. A handful of companies are making billions and billions off the backs of Canadian with worse service and it won’t get any better unless the oligopolies are broken.
- crashcrashcrush 7y agoI actually sympathize - Canada is nice. Quebec especially so; doubly for Montreal. Perhaps it's a bit of this protectionism and isolationism that keeps it that way.
- rogerkirkness 7y agoCertainly almost no aspect of Quebec would survive actual competition with the outside world, as you imply.
- crashcrashcrush 7y agoThat’s perfectly fine.
- deburo 7y agoWhy is it fine? I certainly would like to either pay less or have better service if possible.
- dmix 7y agoQuebec is nice if you're a tourist. I tried living there and that sheen quickly fades. Especially after living in a US city. It's a joke if you think anyone in the world is even attempting to try to imitate Quebec. Montreal is nice because of what is left from the past greatness in the pre 1970s and because of its decline it's now a dirt cheap urban playground with economy-class hipster NYC lite for the unemployed artists whose parents can afford paying their $400/m shared living rent. Otherwise the economy is incredibly behind the times and incredibly lucky for the political influence it's established over the years being the special child who gets preferential treatment despite having none of the excuses the have-not east coast provinces have, despite receiving the most aid of all of the provinces. There's a very good reason MTL rents are 20x cheaper than NYC despite the large stock of high quality old buildings. And it has nothing to do with what they’ve achieved recently.
- bstar77 7y agoI lived in Canada for 2 years. The week I moved there is when T-Mobile started offering free unlimited roaming in Canada. In my time in Canada I kept my T-Mobile plan and didn't even have to get an unlimited plan since I already had unlimited roaming. Since my bill was sent to a Washington address, I guess I got in on some loophole. The best part was that my coverage was phenominal... I had access to Telus, Wind and Bell in my area. My prior trip to BC scouting for a home (a month earlier) cost me hundreds of dollars in international calls and data usage. The phone plans in Canada are shockingly bad. Being able to circumvent them was a godsend.