11 ms·

I used to be an applications engineer for a company that developed electronic parts. So many times I would interact with engineers at various companies around t

by pkaye 7y ago

I used to be an applications engineer for a company that developed electronic parts. So many times I would interact with engineers at various companies around the world. The Japanese engineers always stood out in how they evaluated your product. They would always do rigorous testing of your products. They don't just trust your specs like most other places. Sometimes they built custom test fixtures to test things even we didn't have the bandwidth to perform. I felt that is why they always have high reliability cars and stuff.

peterwwillis 7y ago
They have high reliability cars from continuous improvement practices to increase quality and reduce waste: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System
- klenwell 7y ago
  A favorite quote of mine from Donald G Reinertsen's Principles of Product Development Flow: I used to think that sensible and compelling new ideas would be adopted quickly. Today, I believe this view is hopelessly naive. After all, it took 40 years before we recognized the power of the Toyota Production System.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    In the US if you want to fix that you have to outlaw MBA programs. Because business schools are behind a lot of the decline in US Industry.
    - williamDafoe 7y ago
      What? How can optimizing the most important criteria to the company (MBA salaries) - done scientifically by the MBAs - not lead to more success which is measured (or at least validated) by the number of MBAs hired in the next year?
    - corodra 7y ago
      I'll say I do detest those with MBAs, mostly due to my bias since I didn't go to college. But even I'm going to say you're making a rather absurd statement that's filled with delusional correlation. MBA programs aren't the "cause" of US Industry decline. I don't even know where to begin with unpacking that they are the cause, because of the absurdity. MBA like programs (specialized business teachings to an advance level) have existed since the days of enterprise. The only difference between now and antiquity is the fact we've standardized the model and the naming conventions. Don't forget too it's the consumer's dollar that ultimately has the "real vote" in where production happens. That's why the past two decades, small farms are more and more... viable is a strong word. But they're more popular and there are plenty that do well. Because certain consumers do vote "Yes, I think that a heritage chicken that's cage free and free range is worth the extra money compared to the commercial broiler breeds." But it's a real difficult sell on someone to tell them, "Hey, you can go into an industry where there's money being thrown around or you can try raising a dying industry from scratch and hope it works out for you before the end of your lifetime." It's the same reason we tell kids you should go into STEM classes and not basket weaving. If consumers already have a history in paying for something, why should someone go into something where there's a history of consumers NOT paying for something?
      - pbourke 7y ago
        > The only difference between now and antiquity is the fact we've standardized the model and the naming conventions. The gospel of MBA programs changed to include financialization and outsourcing as two principal techniques that can be applied to every company and industry (they’re all the same, right?). This probably began in the early 80’s when the MBA began to gain currency as a respected degree. Furthermore there is a hostility between management and labor In the US that does not exist in other advanced manufacturing nations such as Germany and Japan. Blame can be placed on both sides for this situation, but nevertheless the MBA worldview is one that above all treats labor and human capital as a commodity to be managed like any other.
        corodra 7y ago
        "I am hiring you because your single function in the company is to increase profits." "Well, some low lying fruit methods that have proven track record is financial market usage and outsourcing." "Do it." Works. A lot. Few years later. "We need more people that play the financial market and know how to properly outsource." MBA programs: "We'll teach more people to do so." Kind of just basic cause/effect rinse/repeat ambulance chasing. If using chicken bones to run a company actually works, you'd see an increase in hiring old gypsy women and fortune telling would become part of all MBA programs everywhere. I just don't see what everyone is getting at. "Go do learn things that will give you good job prospects and is something you like." "Well, an MBA has good job prospects and I like the business world." "You're a god damn piece of shit. I meant to do those things as long as I agree with them." I mean, come on. Are you really going to blame people that find an opportunity where they're good at something and gives them a better life? Basic damn human nature for anyone with a shred of ambition. Plus there are many flavors of MBA teachings. Each university has their own MBA style. There's no "One MBA doctrine". Same like each Ivy League has a different law approach as well. They all don't believe that outsourcing and financial gaming is the single solution to higher profits. As a group becomes reliant on a method, that makes them weak in others and allows for extra opportunity for exploitation due to a willingness to be blinded by comfort. To be fair, a lot of MBA programs do relate Sun Tzu teachings to business for real good reason. Adaptability is the first principle to success. Not just end methodologies. And remember, I fucking don't like MBAs to begin with. And you're forcing me to defend them, you ass. And Japan is literally the worst example you could provide for 1st world countries labor/management relations. Lookup Karoshi.
    - jazzyk 7y ago
      MBA in itself is not a problem, but it should be required that MBA applicants have a 4-year degree NOT in business (preferably STEM). Most CEOs and high-level executives in Japan and Germany (and many other countries) typically have: - an educational background in the area they manage (say, mechanical engineering for car production) - long careers/experience in that area - passion for it (CEOs who race cars, etc) Unlike executive in the US, who: - have a 4-year business degree followed with an MBA - jump from industry to industry (Carly Fiorina, etc), - have no passion for the stuff they produce (they are typically finance or marketing guys) The end result is that US companies turn into marketing/branding shells who outsource everything except for branding/sales or some kind of financial engineering schemes (GE)
      - corodra 7y ago
        There was a 30 Rock episode that poked fun at exactly what you're saying. American business practices are steering more and more towards "consuming and repackaging" rather than producing. Which, I don't think the internet has really helped all that much... well... I think the whole influencer trend is more to blame, not the internet. For better or worse an influencer can make or break a product almost literally overnight. There were some wireless earbuds a year or two ago, where one guy on youtube said they don't work and were trash. Next day everyone... and I'm trying to remember here so a few facts might be wrong... cancelled their pre-orders or immediately returned them without even opening. Something like that. Well, it was maybe a week that company closed down. Then, some other people on youtube used them and said "They work fine and there's nothing wrong with them." Whether the dump on the company was justified or not. I literally don't know, I hate all wireless earbuds to begin with, I'm no expert. That, by itself, is a terrifying prospect. One slight misstep can be blown to crazy proportions. So, why not just "fuck it, just repackage something else we know works and move on. I want no emotional attachment to any of this, in case it blows up in my face." Before someone hits back, yes, the system can still do good, like the LockpickLawyer on youtube, showcasing shit, overpriced bike locks.
      - roenxi 7y ago
        That stems from the doctrine that leadership skills are industry independent. Unfortunately in reality every industry has a couple of big strategic issues that can't/aren't measured with a dollar value and the standard MBA business outlook ignores them in favour of measurable things. The downside of this is sometimes management attempts to optimise out the company's comparative advantages. Sometimes on purposes.
  - lazulicurio 7y ago
    Forty years to recognize the power of the Toyota Production System, but another eighty to actually take those lessons to heart (if ever). A major stumbling block is the adversarial relationship between management and labor in the US[1]. TPS relies on a high-trust environment to function. [1] For example, in current events: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21166923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21166923
    - golemiprague 7y ago
      It's not specifically the relationship, it is a cultural difference that goes deep into society, not something you can change, certainly not quick. People are different and cultures are different, but these days you can't say it loud because it is considered to be racism
      - mistermann 7y ago
        It's a shame you included the last part, otherwise it's an insightful comment. Effective change requires tact and self-discipline.
        golemiprague 7y ago
        I am not ashamed in my views that there are differences between races. I didn't say one is better than other, just that there are differences which are partly cultural and partly genetic. But I won't say it aloud in certain places because I know people will react like you.
    - klenwell 7y ago
      This is also a great listen on the subject: NUMMI (2015) A car plant in Fremont California that might have saved the U.S. car industry. In 1984, General Motors and Toyota opened NUMMI as a joint venture. Toyota showed GM the secrets of its production system: How it made cars of much higher quality and much lower cost than GM achieved. Frank Langfitt explains why GM didn't learn the lessons—until it was too late. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015
detaro 7y ago
There's the old (probably apocryphal?) story of a Japanese firm that got a spec from IBM saying something like "max 3 defects per X units" and in the shipment included a separate, clearly labeled box with 3 defective parts. They didn't understand why, but the customer apparently really cared about those.
- watwut 7y ago
  Probably not true fully. If they are so detail oriented, they will understand what "max" means and they will also understand how specifications and industry works. They might have trolled or basically showing off superior production process.
  - iforgotpassword 7y ago
    If the story is true, definitely this. By putting the broken parts in there they pretty much guaranteed that all the other ones are flawless, otherwise they'd have broken the contract.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    I think they're so used to having things lost in translation, that they take people at their word, no matter how strange it may seem. Second hand knowledge, but I was told they're detailed oriented because they basically don't trust anyone to tell them when they're wrong. The culture is so adverse to causing offense, that instead of reporting a mistake to a colleague, errors are sometimes allowed through and "engineered around" at the next point of assembly. There were a lot of nuances to how this sometimes became self correcting and sometimes caused project failure, but as far as I can tell, that applies to everything Japan. Firsthand sidenote: A similar cultural thing is being ashamed at anything less than proficiency, and will "pretend" to have no knowledge of a topic if they're not an expert. For instance, most people will claim to not understand English, because they're not fluent. But make no mistake, they understand 95% of what you're saying.
    - watwut 7y ago
      There is zero chance they would be able to produce high quality components without understanding what error rates in specifications of other companies mean. Low error rates in their own output means that they understand industry processes very well.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
agumonkey 7y ago
You're adding to my vision about japan cultural gene pool of quality. Not long ago a bored japan dude made a near mirror finish ball out of aluminum foil. Is it bias from me or do they really have that desire/talent for refined everything ?
- klenwell 7y ago
  "Beware the chopsticks gene." Abstract: Population stratification is a potential source of error in psychiatric genetics. New study designs and statistical methods can help guard against this problem. Molecular Psychiatry (2000) 5, 11-13. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10673763 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10673763
  - chillacy 7y ago
    The full text: https://www.nature.com/articles/4000662 https://www.nature.com/articles/4000662
- coughcough 7y ago
  The difference both morally and intellectually is certainly striking especially compared with the caliber of humans from a neighboring country which shall remain nameless
- jmnicolas 7y ago
  I remember a YouTube comment : "if you're good at something, there's an Asian that is better than you at it. And if you're Asian there's a Japanese that is better than you." Anyway I don't think it's genetic, but cultural.
  - JJMcJ 7y ago
    Remember the pull cord on the Toyota production line. A car comes by, doesn't look right, anyone could pull the cord and stop the line while the problem was understood.
    - 7y ago
iancmceachern 7y ago
This is exactly my experience as well. They sent a team of engineers from Japan to come inspect our work, particularly our testing procedures as the equipment was being put through its paces. Their attention to detail was unparalleled.
anthony_doan 7y ago
> I felt that is why they always have high reliability cars and stuff. It's because of William Edward Deming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming. After WWII Deming was trying to get quality control using statistic to American Automakers. They didn't like it so he left for Japan. This is at least the story I've heard from my professors in quality control and statistic. The wikipedia is different in term of he started in Japan first and later on Ford hire him in the 1980s.
- lanevorockz 7y ago
  Japan always had a culture of excellence, they put their heart and soul into their jobs. They also don’t see any job as irrelevant or secondary class. That’s why even executives will clean up their desks and offices, something Americans wouldn’t even know how to start. Deming might have introduced electronics but the quality was always about the religious way they tackle their jobs.
  - segmondy 7y ago
    This. A good book on this is "We were burning" Japanese were able to make chips with less defects simply because they were more clean and careful. Folks didn't even realize that specks of dust could ruin chip manufacturing. It was the observance that cleanliness leads to high yields that because the origin of clean room.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    > Japan always had a culture of excellence, they put their heart and soul into their jobs. Hello No. What you see is only what is happening in very few industries in Japan, but "excellence" does not describe Japan at large. Worker productivity is incredibly low (too many meetings with people who have nothing to do there), lack of individual leadership/initiative, and "cluelessness" is rather the norm than anything else. Just look at how badly designed are most websites, how badly designed are most products made locally (cars and a few other industries are an exception) and how they only value small increments instead of trying completely new approaches (they could never have made the iPhone despite them having all the pieces ready 10 years before). > always No, after WII for a long time Americans considered Japanese products as being cheap rip-offs of what they produced themselves and that only changed after 1970s. > excellence How about their excellence at using English, by the way? Their attention to detail when it comes to using other languages? I hope you realize how wrong it is to make blanket statements.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
foobiekr 7y ago
I was involved in a networking chassis shipped to a Japanese customer. The CM had made a batch of units with amber LEDs that were very slightly less orange than spec; the Japanese customer checked them with a calorimeter as part of their hardware receipt checklist. Glorious. I loved that customer even though they were so, so hard to deal with.

by pkaye 7y ago

peterwwillis 7y ago

They have high reliability cars from continuous improvement practices to increase quality and reduce waste: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

klenwell 7y ago
A favorite quote of mine from Donald G Reinertsen's Principles of Product Development Flow: I used to think that sensible and compelling new ideas would be adopted quickly. Today, I believe this view is hopelessly naive. After all, it took 40 years before we recognized the power of the Toyota Production System.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  In the US if you want to fix that you have to outlaw MBA programs. Because business schools are behind a lot of the decline in US Industry.
  - williamDafoe 7y ago
    What? How can optimizing the most important criteria to the company (MBA salaries) - done scientifically by the MBAs - not lead to more success which is measured (or at least validated) by the number of MBAs hired in the next year?
  - corodra 7y ago
    I'll say I do detest those with MBAs, mostly due to my bias since I didn't go to college. But even I'm going to say you're making a rather absurd statement that's filled with delusional correlation. MBA programs aren't the "cause" of US Industry decline. I don't even know where to begin with unpacking that they are the cause, because of the absurdity. MBA like programs (specialized business teachings to an advance level) have existed since the days of enterprise. The only difference between now and antiquity is the fact we've standardized the model and the naming conventions. Don't forget too it's the consumer's dollar that ultimately has the "real vote" in where production happens. That's why the past two decades, small farms are more and more... viable is a strong word. But they're more popular and there are plenty that do well. Because certain consumers do vote "Yes, I think that a heritage chicken that's cage free and free range is worth the extra money compared to the commercial broiler breeds." But it's a real difficult sell on someone to tell them, "Hey, you can go into an industry where there's money being thrown around or you can try raising a dying industry from scratch and hope it works out for you before the end of your lifetime." It's the same reason we tell kids you should go into STEM classes and not basket weaving. If consumers already have a history in paying for something, why should someone go into something where there's a history of consumers NOT paying for something?
    - pbourke 7y ago
      > The only difference between now and antiquity is the fact we've standardized the model and the naming conventions. The gospel of MBA programs changed to include financialization and outsourcing as two principal techniques that can be applied to every company and industry (they’re all the same, right?). This probably began in the early 80’s when the MBA began to gain currency as a respected degree. Furthermore there is a hostility between management and labor In the US that does not exist in other advanced manufacturing nations such as Germany and Japan. Blame can be placed on both sides for this situation, but nevertheless the MBA worldview is one that above all treats labor and human capital as a commodity to be managed like any other.
      - corodra 7y ago
        "I am hiring you because your single function in the company is to increase profits." "Well, some low lying fruit methods that have proven track record is financial market usage and outsourcing." "Do it." Works. A lot. Few years later. "We need more people that play the financial market and know how to properly outsource." MBA programs: "We'll teach more people to do so." Kind of just basic cause/effect rinse/repeat ambulance chasing. If using chicken bones to run a company actually works, you'd see an increase in hiring old gypsy women and fortune telling would become part of all MBA programs everywhere. I just don't see what everyone is getting at. "Go do learn things that will give you good job prospects and is something you like." "Well, an MBA has good job prospects and I like the business world." "You're a god damn piece of shit. I meant to do those things as long as I agree with them." I mean, come on. Are you really going to blame people that find an opportunity where they're good at something and gives them a better life? Basic damn human nature for anyone with a shred of ambition. Plus there are many flavors of MBA teachings. Each university has their own MBA style. There's no "One MBA doctrine". Same like each Ivy League has a different law approach as well. They all don't believe that outsourcing and financial gaming is the single solution to higher profits. As a group becomes reliant on a method, that makes them weak in others and allows for extra opportunity for exploitation due to a willingness to be blinded by comfort. To be fair, a lot of MBA programs do relate Sun Tzu teachings to business for real good reason. Adaptability is the first principle to success. Not just end methodologies. And remember, I fucking don't like MBAs to begin with. And you're forcing me to defend them, you ass. And Japan is literally the worst example you could provide for 1st world countries labor/management relations. Lookup Karoshi.
  - jazzyk 7y ago
    MBA in itself is not a problem, but it should be required that MBA applicants have a 4-year degree NOT in business (preferably STEM). Most CEOs and high-level executives in Japan and Germany (and many other countries) typically have: - an educational background in the area they manage (say, mechanical engineering for car production) - long careers/experience in that area - passion for it (CEOs who race cars, etc) Unlike executive in the US, who: - have a 4-year business degree followed with an MBA - jump from industry to industry (Carly Fiorina, etc), - have no passion for the stuff they produce (they are typically finance or marketing guys) The end result is that US companies turn into marketing/branding shells who outsource everything except for branding/sales or some kind of financial engineering schemes (GE)
    - corodra 7y ago
      There was a 30 Rock episode that poked fun at exactly what you're saying. American business practices are steering more and more towards "consuming and repackaging" rather than producing. Which, I don't think the internet has really helped all that much... well... I think the whole influencer trend is more to blame, not the internet. For better or worse an influencer can make or break a product almost literally overnight. There were some wireless earbuds a year or two ago, where one guy on youtube said they don't work and were trash. Next day everyone... and I'm trying to remember here so a few facts might be wrong... cancelled their pre-orders or immediately returned them without even opening. Something like that. Well, it was maybe a week that company closed down. Then, some other people on youtube used them and said "They work fine and there's nothing wrong with them." Whether the dump on the company was justified or not. I literally don't know, I hate all wireless earbuds to begin with, I'm no expert. That, by itself, is a terrifying prospect. One slight misstep can be blown to crazy proportions. So, why not just "fuck it, just repackage something else we know works and move on. I want no emotional attachment to any of this, in case it blows up in my face." Before someone hits back, yes, the system can still do good, like the LockpickLawyer on youtube, showcasing shit, overpriced bike locks.
    - roenxi 7y ago
      That stems from the doctrine that leadership skills are industry independent. Unfortunately in reality every industry has a couple of big strategic issues that can't/aren't measured with a dollar value and the standard MBA business outlook ignores them in favour of measurable things. The downside of this is sometimes management attempts to optimise out the company's comparative advantages. Sometimes on purposes.
- lazulicurio 7y ago
  Forty years to recognize the power of the Toyota Production System, but another eighty to actually take those lessons to heart (if ever). A major stumbling block is the adversarial relationship between management and labor in the US[1]. TPS relies on a high-trust environment to function. [1] For example, in current events: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21166923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21166923
  - golemiprague 7y ago
    It's not specifically the relationship, it is a cultural difference that goes deep into society, not something you can change, certainly not quick. People are different and cultures are different, but these days you can't say it loud because it is considered to be racism
    - mistermann 7y ago
      It's a shame you included the last part, otherwise it's an insightful comment. Effective change requires tact and self-discipline.
      - golemiprague 7y ago
        I am not ashamed in my views that there are differences between races. I didn't say one is better than other, just that there are differences which are partly cultural and partly genetic. But I won't say it aloud in certain places because I know people will react like you.
  - klenwell 7y ago
    This is also a great listen on the subject: NUMMI (2015) A car plant in Fremont California that might have saved the U.S. car industry. In 1984, General Motors and Toyota opened NUMMI as a joint venture. Toyota showed GM the secrets of its production system: How it made cars of much higher quality and much lower cost than GM achieved. Frank Langfitt explains why GM didn't learn the lessons—until it was too late. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015

detaro 7y ago

There's the old (probably apocryphal?) story of a Japanese firm that got a spec from IBM saying something like "max 3 defects per X units" and in the shipment included a separate, clearly labeled box with 3 defective parts. They didn't understand why, but the customer apparently really cared about those.

watwut 7y ago
Probably not true fully. If they are so detail oriented, they will understand what "max" means and they will also understand how specifications and industry works. They might have trolled or basically showing off superior production process.
- iforgotpassword 7y ago
  If the story is true, definitely this. By putting the broken parts in there they pretty much guaranteed that all the other ones are flawless, otherwise they'd have broken the contract.
- beerandt 7y ago
  I think they're so used to having things lost in translation, that they take people at their word, no matter how strange it may seem. Second hand knowledge, but I was told they're detailed oriented because they basically don't trust anyone to tell them when they're wrong. The culture is so adverse to causing offense, that instead of reporting a mistake to a colleague, errors are sometimes allowed through and "engineered around" at the next point of assembly. There were a lot of nuances to how this sometimes became self correcting and sometimes caused project failure, but as far as I can tell, that applies to everything Japan. Firsthand sidenote: A similar cultural thing is being ashamed at anything less than proficiency, and will "pretend" to have no knowledge of a topic if they're not an expert. For instance, most people will claim to not understand English, because they're not fluent. But make no mistake, they understand 95% of what you're saying.
  - watwut 7y ago
    There is zero chance they would be able to produce high quality components without understanding what error rates in specifications of other companies mean. Low error rates in their own output means that they understand industry processes very well.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

agumonkey 7y ago

You're adding to my vision about japan cultural gene pool of quality. Not long ago a bored japan dude made a near mirror finish ball out of aluminum foil. Is it bias from me or do they really have that desire/talent for refined everything ?

klenwell 7y ago
"Beware the chopsticks gene." Abstract: Population stratification is a potential source of error in psychiatric genetics. New study designs and statistical methods can help guard against this problem. Molecular Psychiatry (2000) 5, 11-13. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10673763 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10673763
- chillacy 7y ago
  The full text: https://www.nature.com/articles/4000662 https://www.nature.com/articles/4000662
coughcough 7y ago
The difference both morally and intellectually is certainly striking especially compared with the caliber of humans from a neighboring country which shall remain nameless
jmnicolas 7y ago
I remember a YouTube comment : "if you're good at something, there's an Asian that is better than you at it. And if you're Asian there's a Japanese that is better than you." Anyway I don't think it's genetic, but cultural.
- JJMcJ 7y ago
  Remember the pull cord on the Toyota production line. A car comes by, doesn't look right, anyone could pull the cord and stop the line while the problem was understood.
  - 7y ago

iancmceachern 7y ago

This is exactly my experience as well. They sent a team of engineers from Japan to come inspect our work, particularly our testing procedures as the equipment was being put through its paces. Their attention to detail was unparalleled.

anthony_doan 7y ago

> I felt that is why they always have high reliability cars and stuff. It's because of William Edward Deming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming. After WWII Deming was trying to get quality control using statistic to American Automakers. They didn't like it so he left for Japan. This is at least the story I've heard from my professors in quality control and statistic. The wikipedia is different in term of he started in Japan first and later on Ford hire him in the 1980s.

lanevorockz 7y ago
Japan always had a culture of excellence, they put their heart and soul into their jobs. They also don’t see any job as irrelevant or secondary class. That’s why even executives will clean up their desks and offices, something Americans wouldn’t even know how to start. Deming might have introduced electronics but the quality was always about the religious way they tackle their jobs.
- segmondy 7y ago
  This. A good book on this is "We were burning" Japanese were able to make chips with less defects simply because they were more clean and careful. Folks didn't even realize that specks of dust could ruin chip manufacturing. It was the observance that cleanliness leads to high yields that because the origin of clean room.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  > Japan always had a culture of excellence, they put their heart and soul into their jobs. Hello No. What you see is only what is happening in very few industries in Japan, but "excellence" does not describe Japan at large. Worker productivity is incredibly low (too many meetings with people who have nothing to do there), lack of individual leadership/initiative, and "cluelessness" is rather the norm than anything else. Just look at how badly designed are most websites, how badly designed are most products made locally (cars and a few other industries are an exception) and how they only value small increments instead of trying completely new approaches (they could never have made the iPhone despite them having all the pieces ready 10 years before). > always No, after WII for a long time Americans considered Japanese products as being cheap rip-offs of what they produced themselves and that only changed after 1970s. > excellence How about their excellence at using English, by the way? Their attention to detail when it comes to using other languages? I hope you realize how wrong it is to make blanket statements.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

foobiekr 7y ago

I was involved in a networking chassis shipped to a Japanese customer. The CM had made a batch of units with amber LEDs that were very slightly less orange than spec; the Japanese customer checked them with a calorimeter as part of their hardware receipt checklist. Glorious. I loved that customer even though they were so, so hard to deal with.