8 ms·

Fascinating hacker story in an unexpected domain. Thank you! A side note about "getting your numbers"... The author remarks, "she’s not happy to share the mea

Fascinating hacker story in an unexpected domain. Thank you! A side note about "getting your numbers"... The author remarks, "she’s not happy to share the measurements with me as she fears I’ll run off and get my glasses made online". This will obviously vary by jurisdiction but what the author describes may be illegal in some places. e.g. where I live, there is a law since 2010 requiring opticians and optometrists "to give clients, free of charge, a copy of their prescription, sight-test assessment or contact-lens specifications — whether or not it is requested by the client — and also to give a copy, free of charge, to a third-party eyewear seller or other person if requested by the client"[1] [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-changes-eyewear-regulations-1.904446 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-changes-...

wonderwonder 7y ago
This did strike me as strange. Imagine going to a doctor getting a blood test and being told your numbers are good or bad but the doctor refusing to give you the actual result. They are your results, you paid for them and are part of an overall need to understand your health.
- LoSboccacc 7y ago
  > you paid for them most places that sell glasses do those for free tho. I agree they should be given out and they do in europe, or at least in the two states I lived, but being paid for is not the angle to come at it from
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    "Free" exams aren't free, the cost is included in the frames purchase. You can pay for an eye exam and walk out with a prescription, you just have to explain your intent.
    - mantoto 7y ago
      Not always. My place doesn't do it.
      - cptskippy 7y ago
        Doesn't do what?
  - mikepurvis 7y ago
    I don't think I've ever had a free exam in Ontario— my insurance covers one (up to like $200 or something) every two years, so that's about the cadence I get them on. So it's a paid-for thing; I don't feel bad about taking the prescription and buying glasses online. That said, the glasses from the shop last way, way longer than the online ones, so I really just use online for sunglasses or like to get novelty frames for a costume or something.
    - jblakey 7y ago
      I'm in Ontario, too, and couldn't get my PD from Laurier Optical. So I left, went on Amazon, and bought a PD Distance Measurer for a couple of hundred bucks. Did my whole family, and now my wife feels better about ordering from Zeni. Saved enough on a single pair of glasses to pay for the meter.
- WA 7y ago
  Right, except that the test at a optician is often free (in Germany at least).
  - criddell 7y ago
    A couple of years ago I had my vision test done (in Texas) and at the end I asked for my prescription. The PD measurement wasn't on there so I asked for it and was told that is measurement is taken when I buy glasses. I offered the person $20 to just do the measurement and give me the number and they wouldn't do it.
- ThePadawan 7y ago
  I actually read up on the local legalese around this (for Switzerland), and it turns out that doctors can refuse to share information with the patient if they consider it unhelpful/dangerous to do so, but have to share it with other medical staff should they request it. Especially in the context of psychotherapy or when using placebos, this makes a lot of sense.
  - stevekemp 7y ago
    I found it fascinating, after moving to Finland and having an MRI scan done, that it was possible to order a copy of the results on CD-ROM posted to my house. Having worked in the medical field in the past exploring a DICOM dataset was no challenge, and the end result is I have a rotating 3D-view of my own brain! (Well just blood vessels, but still ..)
    - rconti 7y ago
      Here in the US, I got an MRI at a 3rd party lab (not a hospital), and they gave me a copy on CD-ROM as I walked out. I didn't even have to ask! I was quite surprised, as I assumed the results would just be shared with my doctor electronically. I have no idea if I would have gotten this same treatment if I had paid 10x as much for the MRI at Stanford Hospital. (I'm guessing not).
      - mastre_ 7y ago
        You do. We got MRIs on disc at UCLA Santa Monica, free of charge. It's pretty standard.
- mantoto 7y ago
  If you go to an eye doctor they will give it to you. At least in German
- rozab 7y ago
  I don't know about the US (I thought HIPAA was very comprehensive...?) but in the UK you are legally entitled to view personal data about yourself. It wouldn't matter if you paid for the test or not, if it's on file you should be able to access it.
- Johnny555 7y ago
  I think a more apt analogy is that the doctor gave you your blood test results (just as they'll give you your prescription without the PD), but refused to characterize the color "A deep shade of crimson with a touch of scarlet", which is something that you can do yourself with a little knowledge. So you're still getting the information that requires special training or licensing, and you can get the other information yourself if you really want it.
djhworld 7y ago
Not sure about legality but here in the UK you will find opticians will give you your prescription, but often exclude the pupil distance measurement (I think) which a lot of the online stores require. I think you can ask for it, but they will only give it begrudgingly.
- FPGAhacker 7y ago
  Inter-pupillary distance is among the few things glasses related that can be measured yourself.
  - vanattab 7y ago
    It's a little hard to measure it by yourself but with a friend it's easy. Just make sure your looking far off into the distance and not at the persons face who is taking the measurement.
    - JiBB 7y ago
      I found that the best way to get a nice, precise measurement was to take two pieces of sticky note and punch a hole in them with a pin. Put them on an existing pair of glasses and line up a distant (unless you're getting reading glasses) sharp corner with the pinhole over one eye. Switch to the other eye and see if the pinhole is lined up—if not, adjust the pinhole positioning and try again. Once the pinholes are aligned, you can measure the distance between them. Much easier than trying to get someone to measure it accurately with a ruler in front of your face, or trying to draw dots with a washable pen in front of your eyes on old glasses, or any of the other methods I tried. The measurement I took appears to be accurate (the glasses I ordered from Zenni using it are comfortable to wear), and it was easy to get a precise and repeatable measurement to within about half a millimeter.
  - jfengel 7y ago
    That may take some practice. I did it myself once, and was off by about 4 mm. The resulting glasses were incredibly painful. My eyes would try to look in two slightly different directions, and my brain would put the wrong 3D picture together. Whenever I moved my head my eyes would readjust, which took a noticeable period of time, and I could literally feel my non-dominant eye turning itself to find the focus. I chucked the glasses after a few days. I'm sure it could be done better, but boy, that was an interesting experience I hope to never repeat.
stereo 7y ago
In the EU, a GDPR data subject request will get you all the data you want.
- diroussel 7y ago
  Correct. And in the UK (maybe in other countries too) you can make a request verbally or in writing. So if they write it down; your allowed a copy.
ubermonkey 7y ago
I'd treat a refusal to share the prescription as a dealbreaker. I've never encountered it at all. I'm sure it DOES happen, but if you're very clear about your expectations you can keep them from playing this card.
mister_hn 7y ago
In Italy I've got the measurements since 30 years and counting. I imagine the healthcare system plays against you in your country
pkaye 7y ago
That is true in the US also. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-eyeglass-rule https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/com...
- iak8god 7y ago
  That may be, but for glasses at least a key measurement is pupillary distance, and it is like pulling teeth to get them to give you this. At my most recent encounter with an optometrist - where I had already selected and was in the process of purchasing from them glasses that cost me hundreds of dollars after my insurance discount - I had to ask them no less then four times to write down my PD so I could buy a few pairs of beaters online. They kept "forgetting."
  - pkaye 7y ago
    I presume the PD doesn't change after you are an adult so you could reuse it in the future. My real concern is if I encounter some problems, if I got the exam and glasses from one place, I can insist they fix it for me instead of arguing who is at fault.
ksaj 7y ago
I was going to pipe in and say the same thing. I'm a few provinces east of you. I've heard the same thing about hearing aid prescriptions, CT (and similar) scans, and blood test results. In Canada they'll happily give you the results for your own records, but apparently some other countries don't provide it as a general right, leaving businesses to decide whether they want their competitors to be able to pick up work they initiated. I think the difference is whether medical is private or public.
timbit42 7y ago
The optometrist at my local Vogue Optical is actually only affiliated by location. She was happy to give me my PD as she doesn't sell glasses anyway. I'm sure most people walk out of her office into the Vogue Optical show floor and buy their glasses there.

wonderwonder 7y ago

This did strike me as strange. Imagine going to a doctor getting a blood test and being told your numbers are good or bad but the doctor refusing to give you the actual result. They are your results, you paid for them and are part of an overall need to understand your health.

LoSboccacc 7y ago
> you paid for them most places that sell glasses do those for free tho. I agree they should be given out and they do in europe, or at least in the two states I lived, but being paid for is not the angle to come at it from
- cptskippy 7y ago
  "Free" exams aren't free, the cost is included in the frames purchase. You can pay for an eye exam and walk out with a prescription, you just have to explain your intent.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    Not always. My place doesn't do it.
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      Doesn't do what?
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  I don't think I've ever had a free exam in Ontario— my insurance covers one (up to like $200 or something) every two years, so that's about the cadence I get them on. So it's a paid-for thing; I don't feel bad about taking the prescription and buying glasses online. That said, the glasses from the shop last way, way longer than the online ones, so I really just use online for sunglasses or like to get novelty frames for a costume or something.
  - jblakey 7y ago
    I'm in Ontario, too, and couldn't get my PD from Laurier Optical. So I left, went on Amazon, and bought a PD Distance Measurer for a couple of hundred bucks. Did my whole family, and now my wife feels better about ordering from Zeni. Saved enough on a single pair of glasses to pay for the meter.
WA 7y ago
Right, except that the test at a optician is often free (in Germany at least).
- criddell 7y ago
  A couple of years ago I had my vision test done (in Texas) and at the end I asked for my prescription. The PD measurement wasn't on there so I asked for it and was told that is measurement is taken when I buy glasses. I offered the person $20 to just do the measurement and give me the number and they wouldn't do it.
ThePadawan 7y ago
I actually read up on the local legalese around this (for Switzerland), and it turns out that doctors can refuse to share information with the patient if they consider it unhelpful/dangerous to do so, but have to share it with other medical staff should they request it. Especially in the context of psychotherapy or when using placebos, this makes a lot of sense.
- stevekemp 7y ago
  I found it fascinating, after moving to Finland and having an MRI scan done, that it was possible to order a copy of the results on CD-ROM posted to my house. Having worked in the medical field in the past exploring a DICOM dataset was no challenge, and the end result is I have a rotating 3D-view of my own brain! (Well just blood vessels, but still ..)
  - rconti 7y ago
    Here in the US, I got an MRI at a 3rd party lab (not a hospital), and they gave me a copy on CD-ROM as I walked out. I didn't even have to ask! I was quite surprised, as I assumed the results would just be shared with my doctor electronically. I have no idea if I would have gotten this same treatment if I had paid 10x as much for the MRI at Stanford Hospital. (I'm guessing not).
    - mastre_ 7y ago
      You do. We got MRIs on disc at UCLA Santa Monica, free of charge. It's pretty standard.
mantoto 7y ago
If you go to an eye doctor they will give it to you. At least in German
rozab 7y ago
I don't know about the US (I thought HIPAA was very comprehensive...?) but in the UK you are legally entitled to view personal data about yourself. It wouldn't matter if you paid for the test or not, if it's on file you should be able to access it.
Johnny555 7y ago
I think a more apt analogy is that the doctor gave you your blood test results (just as they'll give you your prescription without the PD), but refused to characterize the color "A deep shade of crimson with a touch of scarlet", which is something that you can do yourself with a little knowledge. So you're still getting the information that requires special training or licensing, and you can get the other information yourself if you really want it.

djhworld 7y ago

Not sure about legality but here in the UK you will find opticians will give you your prescription, but often exclude the pupil distance measurement (I think) which a lot of the online stores require. I think you can ask for it, but they will only give it begrudgingly.

FPGAhacker 7y ago
Inter-pupillary distance is among the few things glasses related that can be measured yourself.
- vanattab 7y ago
  It's a little hard to measure it by yourself but with a friend it's easy. Just make sure your looking far off into the distance and not at the persons face who is taking the measurement.
  - JiBB 7y ago
    I found that the best way to get a nice, precise measurement was to take two pieces of sticky note and punch a hole in them with a pin. Put them on an existing pair of glasses and line up a distant (unless you're getting reading glasses) sharp corner with the pinhole over one eye. Switch to the other eye and see if the pinhole is lined up—if not, adjust the pinhole positioning and try again. Once the pinholes are aligned, you can measure the distance between them. Much easier than trying to get someone to measure it accurately with a ruler in front of your face, or trying to draw dots with a washable pen in front of your eyes on old glasses, or any of the other methods I tried. The measurement I took appears to be accurate (the glasses I ordered from Zenni using it are comfortable to wear), and it was easy to get a precise and repeatable measurement to within about half a millimeter.
- jfengel 7y ago
  That may take some practice. I did it myself once, and was off by about 4 mm. The resulting glasses were incredibly painful. My eyes would try to look in two slightly different directions, and my brain would put the wrong 3D picture together. Whenever I moved my head my eyes would readjust, which took a noticeable period of time, and I could literally feel my non-dominant eye turning itself to find the focus. I chucked the glasses after a few days. I'm sure it could be done better, but boy, that was an interesting experience I hope to never repeat.

stereo 7y ago

In the EU, a GDPR data subject request will get you all the data you want.

diroussel 7y ago
Correct. And in the UK (maybe in other countries too) you can make a request verbally or in writing. So if they write it down; your allowed a copy.

ubermonkey 7y ago

I'd treat a refusal to share the prescription as a dealbreaker. I've never encountered it at all. I'm sure it DOES happen, but if you're very clear about your expectations you can keep them from playing this card.

mister_hn 7y ago

In Italy I've got the measurements since 30 years and counting. I imagine the healthcare system plays against you in your country

pkaye 7y ago

That is true in the US also. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-eyeglass-rule https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/com...

iak8god 7y ago
That may be, but for glasses at least a key measurement is pupillary distance, and it is like pulling teeth to get them to give you this. At my most recent encounter with an optometrist - where I had already selected and was in the process of purchasing from them glasses that cost me hundreds of dollars after my insurance discount - I had to ask them no less then four times to write down my PD so I could buy a few pairs of beaters online. They kept "forgetting."
- pkaye 7y ago
  I presume the PD doesn't change after you are an adult so you could reuse it in the future. My real concern is if I encounter some problems, if I got the exam and glasses from one place, I can insist they fix it for me instead of arguing who is at fault.

ksaj 7y ago

I was going to pipe in and say the same thing. I'm a few provinces east of you. I've heard the same thing about hearing aid prescriptions, CT (and similar) scans, and blood test results. In Canada they'll happily give you the results for your own records, but apparently some other countries don't provide it as a general right, leaving businesses to decide whether they want their competitors to be able to pick up work they initiated. I think the difference is whether medical is private or public.

timbit42 7y ago

The optometrist at my local Vogue Optical is actually only affiliated by location. She was happy to give me my PD as she doesn't sell glasses anyway. I'm sure most people walk out of her office into the Vogue Optical show floor and buy their glasses there.