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There, at the top of "Other Expenditures", Slightly smaller than running the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales. That is what's governing the entire po

There, at the top of "Other Expenditures", Slightly smaller than running the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales. That is what's governing the entire political agenda right now. That's the amount of money stuck on the side of a bus with the suggestion that we could spend it on the NHS instead

arethuza 7y ago
Yes, I tried looking for it and had to use the search feature to find it.
Chris2048 7y ago
"the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales" takes over 12 billion to run?
- arethuza 7y ago
  I think that's just the slightly unusual name for what replaced the "Welsh Office": https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-secretary-of-state-for-wales https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-se...
  - Chris2048 7y ago
    I can see "welsh-assembly-government-2015" but that feeds into public services (NHS ect) too - the wales office is around 4 mil
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Seems low. That office was formerly known as the Welsh Office. I'm not sure how it separates from or overlaps with the Welsh Assembly, who don't have tax raising powers like Scotland. Presumably spends on a number of Welsh schemes, infrastructure, projects, roads etc.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    WAG have had tax raising powers since April 2018, fwiw.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Thanks, somehow I'd missed that. Didn't think it had gone beyond being discussed.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Almost all of that goes to the devolved Welsh government. https://law.gov.wales/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?lang=en#/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?tab=overview&lang=en https://law.gov.wales/constitution-government/government-in-... i.e. it's not to "run the office", it's what central government transfers to Wales.
tomekn 7y ago
The missing piece of the puzzle seems to be the upcoming EU legislation surrounding tax declarations of offshore accounts. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/european-commission-to-crackdown-on-offshore-tax-avoidance https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/european-co... It's not a matter of national expenditure, but that of personal expenditure of those pulling the strings. It's just being framed that way by the "will of the people"/"take back control" brigade, and people are dumb enough to listen.
ackshually 7y ago
I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussels. The "NHS bus" is a talking point very aggressively focused on by the remain campaign because it's an easy thing to point at as disingenuous, But I feel like there's a lot more nuance to the choice to leave the EU than many "remainers" believe. It's harmful to national discourse to narrow the argument for either side down to misinformation or this "they don't know what they're voting for" narrative (not saying you're asserting this, I've just seen it said a lot) because it chips away at the very concept of majority rule and proportional representation.
- pjc50 7y ago
  How do you feel about the unelected House of Lords? Or, for that matter, the election-untested Prime Minister and his definitely unelected SPADs? The EU parliamentarians are paid well, but I think there's a staff quality issue here and that UK MPs are actually underpaid; for the hours and responsibility, it's basically a company director level job. (Of course, the only people that take EU pay and deliberately do a bad job or fail to turn up are ... UKIP MEPs) Edit: I missed your reference to "proportional representation", which of course we don't have in the UK parliament either. Which is why the government was able to be formed with only about 42% of votes, plus a veto of the 0.9% of DUP votes. We have a semi-proportional system for MEPs, though.
  - dev_north_east 7y ago
    > (Of course, the only people that take EU pay and deliberately do a bad job or fail to turn up are ... UKIP MEPs) Well that's blatantly not true. And their "job" is to represent their voters, which they are doing. "We shouldn't be here," was their cry in the Euro election. Absenteeism/disruption by representative politicians is perfectly fine in my book, as long as that's what they campaign on.
- 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jkoudys 7y ago
I'll never stop being amazed by how available, accessible, and important these data are, yet so rarely accessed. People will argue with their relatives over the holidays until they're blue in the face, but can't take 10 minutes to read this vital information. I'm totally fine with people disagreeing over how to interpret these numbers. A healthy democracy should see us able to debate policy based on differences in values or philosophy. Instead we mostly decide what we believe first, then filter to only see information that supports that belief.
spoovy 7y ago
This obsession with The Bus does remainers no favours. It was a highly misleading statement true, but you will see similar levels of spin at all elections without the losing party still banging on about it years later. Brexit was and is about sovereignty for most people I know who voted to leave. People felt that laws being made were too distant from them (EU directives; same thing). this is no different a sentiment from the one that drives the Scottish nationalists, though I don't remember the London hipster set laying into them with endless ad hominem attacks?

arethuza 7y ago

Yes, I tried looking for it and had to use the search feature to find it.

Chris2048 7y ago

"the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales" takes over 12 billion to run?

arethuza 7y ago
I think that's just the slightly unusual name for what replaced the "Welsh Office": https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-secretary-of-state-for-wales https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/office-of-the-se...
- Chris2048 7y ago
  I can see "welsh-assembly-government-2015" but that feeds into public services (NHS ect) too - the wales office is around 4 mil
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Seems low. That office was formerly known as the Welsh Office. I'm not sure how it separates from or overlaps with the Welsh Assembly, who don't have tax raising powers like Scotland. Presumably spends on a number of Welsh schemes, infrastructure, projects, roads etc.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  WAG have had tax raising powers since April 2018, fwiw.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Thanks, somehow I'd missed that. Didn't think it had gone beyond being discussed.
pjc50 7y ago
Almost all of that goes to the devolved Welsh government. https://law.gov.wales/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?lang=en#/constitution-government/government-in-wales/finance/?tab=overview&lang=en https://law.gov.wales/constitution-government/government-in-... i.e. it's not to "run the office", it's what central government transfers to Wales.

tomekn 7y ago

The missing piece of the puzzle seems to be the upcoming EU legislation surrounding tax declarations of offshore accounts. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/european-commission-to-crackdown-on-offshore-tax-avoidance https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/18/european-co... It's not a matter of national expenditure, but that of personal expenditure of those pulling the strings. It's just being framed that way by the "will of the people"/"take back control" brigade, and people are dumb enough to listen.

ackshually 7y ago

I didn't vote leave because of the money. I voted leave because I was dubious about the control the elected and unelected officials and secretaries in brussels had over British politics, and the rats nest of well paid jobs with crazy benefits waiting for british politicians in brussels when they retire from british politics, so long as they play nice with the EU and go along with the will of the government in Brussels. The "NHS bus" is a talking point very aggressively focused on by the remain campaign because it's an easy thing to point at as disingenuous, But I feel like there's a lot more nuance to the choice to leave the EU than many "remainers" believe. It's harmful to national discourse to narrow the argument for either side down to misinformation or this "they don't know what they're voting for" narrative (not saying you're asserting this, I've just seen it said a lot) because it chips away at the very concept of majority rule and proportional representation.

pjc50 7y ago
How do you feel about the unelected House of Lords? Or, for that matter, the election-untested Prime Minister and his definitely unelected SPADs? The EU parliamentarians are paid well, but I think there's a staff quality issue here and that UK MPs are actually underpaid; for the hours and responsibility, it's basically a company director level job. (Of course, the only people that take EU pay and deliberately do a bad job or fail to turn up are ... UKIP MEPs) Edit: I missed your reference to "proportional representation", which of course we don't have in the UK parliament either. Which is why the government was able to be formed with only about 42% of votes, plus a veto of the 0.9% of DUP votes. We have a semi-proportional system for MEPs, though.
- dev_north_east 7y ago
  > (Of course, the only people that take EU pay and deliberately do a bad job or fail to turn up are ... UKIP MEPs) Well that's blatantly not true. And their "job" is to represent their voters, which they are doing. "We shouldn't be here," was their cry in the Euro election. Absenteeism/disruption by representative politicians is perfectly fine in my book, as long as that's what they campaign on.
7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jkoudys 7y ago

I'll never stop being amazed by how available, accessible, and important these data are, yet so rarely accessed. People will argue with their relatives over the holidays until they're blue in the face, but can't take 10 minutes to read this vital information. I'm totally fine with people disagreeing over how to interpret these numbers. A healthy democracy should see us able to debate policy based on differences in values or philosophy. Instead we mostly decide what we believe first, then filter to only see information that supports that belief.

spoovy 7y ago

This obsession with The Bus does remainers no favours. It was a highly misleading statement true, but you will see similar levels of spin at all elections without the losing party still banging on about it years later. Brexit was and is about sovereignty for most people I know who voted to leave. People felt that laws being made were too distant from them (EU directives; same thing). this is no different a sentiment from the one that drives the Scottish nationalists, though I don't remember the London hipster set laying into them with endless ad hominem attacks?