6 ms·

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ > Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemical

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/ > Most Plastic Products Release Estrogenic Chemicals: A Potential Health Problem That Can Be Solved > Results: Almost all commercially available plastic products we sampled—independent of the type of resin, product, or retail source—leached chemicals having reliably detectable EA, including those advertised as BPA free. In some cases, BPA-free products released chemicals having more EA than did BPA-containing products.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
(DISCLAIMER: I am hoping we can discuss this from a purely intellectual perspective and not bring ideology into it) I have always postulated that the increase of estrogenic compounds may have some impact on what seems to be an utter surge of reported cases of gender dysphoria amongst others other disorders that typically arise when you mess with hormonal/endocrine systems. Has there been any scientific research done on this topic or is just viewed as an untouchable subject due to fear of backlash (which would be a shame if so)? It's no secret by now that we have been consuming large amounts of estrogenic compounds now in large amounts, whether it is indirectly through plastics and other industrial compounds, hormone-filled meats and dairy, other animal by-products, prescription of hormones, or more directly through the over-prescription and overuse of hormones and other drugs that have a pseudo-hormonal effect on our brains such as steroids (there is even hormones in our drinking water!) I just wonder if we are barking up a tree we have so little understanding of. As an anecdote, I as a male suffered from gynecomastia. I did a lot of research. I learned what once used to be almost always guaranteed to be denied by insurance because it was considered purely cosmetic, is now so common insurances felt the need to cover it. So the insurance companies seem to have even caught whiff of something being "in the water" so to speak. I wonder if we will look back in 50 years, just like some of us can point back and say about our grandparents and great grandparents generation and say "oh yeah it was all that lead you were exposed to which caused all those adverse effects (health-wise, personality-wise, and IQ wise)" if we will point back and say "oh yeah it was all those hormones or hormone disruptors you pumped into everything"
- sp332 7y ago
  My "intellectual perspective" on this theory that you just made up is that you just made it up. Have a nice day.
  - tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
    Well yes. It is my theory. I did make it up, formulating my own hypothesis. What is your point?
- thatswrong0 7y ago
  I would expect if that were the case that you’d see a disparity in the number of MtF compared to FtM. And the MtF to FTM ratio is according to the NIH 2.2:1, which is pretty significant (Although now I’m reading the methodology behind that number may be flawed)
- devmunchies 7y ago
  There are so many things that have changed in the last 50 years that there is a a large surface area of changes that could be causing mass hormone imbalance. Plastics, daily dairy consumptions (every meal!), soy, sedentary lifestyle, processed food, lack of minerals in soil/food, not being exposed to natural fungus in soil and nature, not consuming enough fermented foods because we have refrigeration, not enough meditation we would get from sitting in front of a fire, not enough exposure to heat/cold in the natural seasons, not using natural ground water... obviously not all of that, but my point is that it could be anything.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Dunno about the benefits of fermented food: oxidized nitrates ain’t great for you.
    - devmunchies 7y ago
      negative properties doesn't mean there aren't any beneficial properties. maybe fermented food are good for our gut biome or something, which impacts our metabolism and fat levels, which impacts our hormones levels, idk. you're missing the point.
hinkley 7y ago
I was just floored when the BPA problems arose and all these people I knew were trading in one plastic bottle for a different one. I'm switching to glass and stainless and everyone else is buying more plastic. Just... don't understand why we learn so slow.
- thfuran 7y ago
  It sounds less unreasonable if you realize that "plastic" is about as specific as "crystalline" or "brittle".
- simias 7y ago
  Plastics are just pretty damn convenient materials. They're solid, cheap, can be made flexible or hard, don't rust, are easy to clean etc... Glass is heavy and breaks when dropped, metal is less heavy and only dents but it's more expensive than plastic. A lot of metal containers have an internal plastic lining simply so that food (and especially acidic food) doesn't react with the metal through direct contact.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    Yep. Once in a while I'll see something about the history of food preservation and it's always funny because the more optimistic folks will point to a particular date and inventor as the birth of pasteurized canning. And then a more curmudgeonly person will sometimes point out that the tin from those cans would leach in and turn the food black. Not quite the victory people make it out to be. It was a bit later before they got the process to store food that people would eat.
    - logn 7y ago
      This is a tangent but I liked this video on beverage cans, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw
- hanniabu 7y ago
  I've always been leery of metal containers because I'm sure there's some unsafe machine oil/lubricant in there from the China manufacturing plant it was made at and wasn't completely/properly washed. Even after washing it at home I'm sure you can't get everything out.
hanniabu 7y ago
I wonder if there's a point where the leaching greatly diminishes after so long (b/c everything from the surface has leached). For instance, I'd like to know if my hard-plastic Camelbak water container is now basically safe considering I've had it for about 4 years and refill it about 2/3 times a day, or if it's leaching at essentially the same rate as when it was new.
- colordrops 7y ago
  Or perhaps it leeches at a higher rate as the plastic physically and chemically degrades. Would be worth looking into.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    Yes, indeed an interesting question
refurb 7y ago
The dose makes the poison. Saying there are detectable levels of BPA doesn’t tell you much when the lower detection limit is parts per billion or parts per trillion.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

(DISCLAIMER: I am hoping we can discuss this from a purely intellectual perspective and not bring ideology into it) I have always postulated that the increase of estrogenic compounds may have some impact on what seems to be an utter surge of reported cases of gender dysphoria amongst others other disorders that typically arise when you mess with hormonal/endocrine systems. Has there been any scientific research done on this topic or is just viewed as an untouchable subject due to fear of backlash (which would be a shame if so)? It's no secret by now that we have been consuming large amounts of estrogenic compounds now in large amounts, whether it is indirectly through plastics and other industrial compounds, hormone-filled meats and dairy, other animal by-products, prescription of hormones, or more directly through the over-prescription and overuse of hormones and other drugs that have a pseudo-hormonal effect on our brains such as steroids (there is even hormones in our drinking water!) I just wonder if we are barking up a tree we have so little understanding of. As an anecdote, I as a male suffered from gynecomastia. I did a lot of research. I learned what once used to be almost always guaranteed to be denied by insurance because it was considered purely cosmetic, is now so common insurances felt the need to cover it. So the insurance companies seem to have even caught whiff of something being "in the water" so to speak. I wonder if we will look back in 50 years, just like some of us can point back and say about our grandparents and great grandparents generation and say "oh yeah it was all that lead you were exposed to which caused all those adverse effects (health-wise, personality-wise, and IQ wise)" if we will point back and say "oh yeah it was all those hormones or hormone disruptors you pumped into everything"

sp332 7y ago
My "intellectual perspective" on this theory that you just made up is that you just made it up. Have a nice day.
- tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
  Well yes. It is my theory. I did make it up, formulating my own hypothesis. What is your point?
thatswrong0 7y ago
I would expect if that were the case that you’d see a disparity in the number of MtF compared to FtM. And the MtF to FTM ratio is according to the NIH 2.2:1, which is pretty significant (Although now I’m reading the methodology behind that number may be flawed)
devmunchies 7y ago
There are so many things that have changed in the last 50 years that there is a a large surface area of changes that could be causing mass hormone imbalance. Plastics, daily dairy consumptions (every meal!), soy, sedentary lifestyle, processed food, lack of minerals in soil/food, not being exposed to natural fungus in soil and nature, not consuming enough fermented foods because we have refrigeration, not enough meditation we would get from sitting in front of a fire, not enough exposure to heat/cold in the natural seasons, not using natural ground water... obviously not all of that, but my point is that it could be anything.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Dunno about the benefits of fermented food: oxidized nitrates ain’t great for you.
  - devmunchies 7y ago
    negative properties doesn't mean there aren't any beneficial properties. maybe fermented food are good for our gut biome or something, which impacts our metabolism and fat levels, which impacts our hormones levels, idk. you're missing the point.

hinkley 7y ago

I was just floored when the BPA problems arose and all these people I knew were trading in one plastic bottle for a different one. I'm switching to glass and stainless and everyone else is buying more plastic. Just... don't understand why we learn so slow.

thfuran 7y ago
It sounds less unreasonable if you realize that "plastic" is about as specific as "crystalline" or "brittle".
simias 7y ago
Plastics are just pretty damn convenient materials. They're solid, cheap, can be made flexible or hard, don't rust, are easy to clean etc... Glass is heavy and breaks when dropped, metal is less heavy and only dents but it's more expensive than plastic. A lot of metal containers have an internal plastic lining simply so that food (and especially acidic food) doesn't react with the metal through direct contact.
- hinkley 7y ago
  Yep. Once in a while I'll see something about the history of food preservation and it's always funny because the more optimistic folks will point to a particular date and inventor as the birth of pasteurized canning. And then a more curmudgeonly person will sometimes point out that the tin from those cans would leach in and turn the food black. Not quite the victory people make it out to be. It was a bit later before they got the process to store food that people would eat.
  - logn 7y ago
    This is a tangent but I liked this video on beverage cans, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUhisi2FBuw
hanniabu 7y ago
I've always been leery of metal containers because I'm sure there's some unsafe machine oil/lubricant in there from the China manufacturing plant it was made at and wasn't completely/properly washed. Even after washing it at home I'm sure you can't get everything out.

hanniabu 7y ago

I wonder if there's a point where the leaching greatly diminishes after so long (b/c everything from the surface has leached). For instance, I'd like to know if my hard-plastic Camelbak water container is now basically safe considering I've had it for about 4 years and refill it about 2/3 times a day, or if it's leaching at essentially the same rate as when it was new.

colordrops 7y ago
Or perhaps it leeches at a higher rate as the plastic physically and chemically degrades. Would be worth looking into.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Yes, indeed an interesting question

refurb 7y ago

The dose makes the poison. Saying there are detectable levels of BPA doesn’t tell you much when the lower detection limit is parts per billion or parts per trillion.