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The Spinner
- leereeves 7y agoOf course this is already happening on a massive scale. Perhaps having someone openly admit to it will help make people more aware.
- helpPeople 7y agoI believe HN Does not allow people to question gaslighting on HN. I never understood why. Mods claim it "doesn't add to the topic".
- dang 7y agoI don't recall ever saying either of those things.
- gbear605 7y agoIronically, that could be portrayed as gaslighting on your part - not that I think it is.
- zawerf 7y agoIt's no secret that content moderators moderate content. Most of the stuff on HN is shaped by a few people who gets to decide what's interesting enough to get a boost or not. It definitely feels like gaslighting when you notice it happening. For example a few times I know I made a comment on an old article the day before but it didn't get traction. But then it would be on the frontpage again the next day with all the timestamps manipulated to seem fresher, including on my own comments! I know I was sleeping at that time so then I start questioning my sanity and whether I was sleepwalking or not!
- dang 7y agoThat last bit sounds like you ran into the second-chance pool (described at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11662380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11662380), which involves modifying timestamps when re-upping. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19774614 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16117291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16117291. Most of HN isn't shaped by moderators boosting stories. But some of it is. The intention is just to make the site more interesting to the community. We don't always get that right, because sometimes the stories we think people will like just get flagged, and in that case we usually accede to the flaggers and unboost the thing. But most of the time it seems to work out.
- wanderingjew 7y agoCan you clarify, because while you've said gaslighting HN users is, "an egregious violation of the guidelines and a bannable offense on HN" [1], you're also saying the _questioning_ of gaslighting is allowed? Given the nature of gaslighting, those things seem one in the same, do they not? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16608054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16608054
- ratww 7y agoUh, I think the problem in your example is the "How much did Putin pay you to..." part. That's indeed against the rules.
- dang 7y agoratww already pointed this out, but the issue from our point of view was implying that the other commenter was not posting in good faith (how much is $baddie paying you). The concept of gaslighting didn't really enter into it. I really appreciate your supplying a specific link. It's amazing how rare that is! and makes it so much easier to respond accurately.
- defertoreptar 7y agoOP, what do you think "gaslighting" means here?
- pedantry_aas 7y agoThey don't know because the word has lost all meaning. It now means "a person with whom I disagree has spoken."
- dannykwells 7y agoThis feels like a satire. But it's not. My god. We are truly living in the end of days. Also the title is purposely inflammatory (if not also true).
- Zhyl 7y agoI thought this was going to be an exposé about how SaaS platforms changing functionality or UI design with little or no notice are undermining employee confidence and causing loss of productivity but it seems it more like Cambridge Analytica does inception?
- phnofive 7y agoThe title is not good, but I’m not sure this isn’t satirical, based on the ”Get Your Kid A Dog!” campaign.
- arpa 7y agoThe terms and conditions, alongside with the technical detail (see targeting link) make it believably legit.
- pier25 7y agoAlso the "100% Natural" badge :)
- Kye 7y agoSpinners usually say this to distinguish themselves from automated spinning tools.
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoI feel like most of the options are really only there to provide cover for the creepy ones. Another comment said that "Initiate Sex!" is their most popular campaign by far.
- arpa 7y agoOh god. Spot on! At first I was having a hearty chuckle. Then there was some disbelief. And then it hit me like a hammer. Yes, it is possible. Yes, it is being done. Yes, you are a target for these nudges and chances are, you will not notice them amidst the daily stream of garbage. And, finally... the title is spot on in a reverse kind of way: it did make me doubt my own decisions over the past few years...
- debatem1 7y agoInteresting the difference between the topline description "exposed to hundreds of items disguised as editorial content" and the one later in the page "10 articles". Could it be that a company which sells deception is playing a bit fast and loose with its claims? Also, I think it would be very interesting to set up a honeypot for this and see what kinds of changes it drives. Anyone interested in splitting the cost for an experiment?
- phkahler 7y agoThe hundreds of items could be links to the 10 articles.
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoThe FAQ clarifies it as "a set of 10 different articles presented to the target 180 times over the course of three months."
- luhn 7y agoThe HN title is incorrectly using "gaslight," and the website makes no mention of gaslighting. > Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.
- oneshoe 7y agoWithout trying to be pedantic, I think bombarding people with false (or "spun") information that is in contrast to their views, principles, or beliefs through a long period of time would make them question their perception(s). I get that probably wouldn't change people's memory or sanity however.
- mrfredward 7y agoGaslighting usually involves lying about past interactions, not surrounding a person with persuasive material.
- GhettoMaestro 7y agoCorrect - at the root of gaslighting is a bold-faced lie. From the source, it refers to a story where the husband turns down, and then back up, the gas-lights in their house continually, and denies that he is changing anything to his wife when she inquires why the light level keeps changing. Thus the term, "gas-lighting".
- markstos 7y agoThere was no mention of false information being involved.
- oneshoe 7y agoI took "disguised as editorial content" to be false information - which is mentioned in the two sentence at the top of the site.
- 7y ago
- somethoughts 7y agoMy first thought was that it was subscription service for people who don't know how to re-light their furnace pilot light when it goes out. My second thought was - Is that a huge addressable market, but what do I know? Then I clicked the link.
- hnghost 7y agoSmug Life not reading much news or articles other than print books.
- redoaoura 7y agoThis is crazy but cool
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jbob2000 7y agoThis is gross, shut this shit down now. There's no honest use for this. The only people who'll use it are psychopaths, we don't need to empower them, especially when it's as cheap as $50.
- arpa 7y agoSo we should only empower rich psychopaths to target very select sets of people (like with FB ads)? :)
- Buttons840 7y agoSo let's keep this service only accessible to the wealthy and influential? It might be a good thing that you can point to a consumer facing website like this and say "look, anyone can gaslight you for cheap, anyone!"
- Const-me 7y agoI don’t disagree, but how is it different from corporations, who’s using exactly same methods to deliver the message “purchase our crap”? The only reason they are paying more than $50, they’re buying more than 180 impressions.
- solotronics 7y agoBig tech companies are already doing this to influence public opinions.
- maxfurman 7y agoThis is fucked up. At first I thought, of course this exists but no one would really fall for it. Scrolling through the offerings, I felt a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. Psychological warfare on-demand, only $50!
- markstos 7y agoHaving someone see more articles on the benefits of quiting smoking is messed up?
- i_cant_speel 7y agoInvoluntary psychological manipulation is messed up regardless of the intent.
- markstos 7y agoAds we see can already be increasingly targeted to a very narrow group of people, which is spun as "making the adds more relevant to you". Is it different when it's a slightly larger group size than one?
- SamBam 7y agoYou're speaking in generalities. This site is dealing with real people, such as a man who wants more sex from his girlfriend (apparently the most requested "ad") and so secretly signs his girlfriend's phone up for a system where she is shown ads designed to manipulate her into giving her boyfriend what she wants. You don't see how there's an ethical difference, between that and a corporation advertising its products towards a general demographic?
- moate 7y agoI'm not clear here: are you using this as an argument in favor of spinner and their service or as an argument against targeted ads because they're basically just this spinner on a larger scale? If the latter, I'm with you.
- haasted 7y agoThey should add an “expose target to qanon and conspiracy theories”-option. There was an article not too long ago about what obsessing over this can do to personal relationships. It was not pretty.
- bonerman69 7y agoLollll
- dang 7y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've done it a lot, and we're trying for a bit better than that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- methodin 7y agoIs there anything stopping someone from abusing paid ad services for any of these platforms themselves to the same effect? This is assuming that they allow you to finely target the ads which I believe they do.
- ipsa 7y agoNo. I think they are doing exactly that: They pay ad services like Outbrain pennies to run retargeting ads. The Spinner has no own platform, they just bid on the market (and can really lowball the bid, until some will go through). Real costs are about 0.50$ - 5$ so the markup is huge.
- Nextgrid 7y agoNot really. There was a story about someone pranking their roommate with targeted Facebook ads but FB then raised the minimum amount of people targeted. However as far as I know nothing prevents you from specifying a majority of fake emails/phone numbers in addition to your target’s phone number as long as you’re happy to pay for the extra wasted fake targets.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bamurphymac1 7y agoHmm, I’m curious using this on oneself to encourage pro-social behavior or reinforce new habits. Would it have a known placebo effect where even if you knew it was spun you’d still be influenced?
- eweise 7y agoWish they had a campaign to convince my boss that working from home is a win-win situation.
- GreenJelloShot 7y agoSounds like a great opportunity for a GoFundMe campaign.
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoAnd it literally starts by you sending them an "innocuous looking" link. How does someone actually justify to themselves that doing something like this is even slightly okay? I'd feel deeply disturbed doing this to someone even if it was for a "good cause" like getting them to quit smoking.
- kd3 7y agoLooks like the CIA finally got some competition.
- sideshowmel 7y ago"The Spinner* sends you an innocent looking link. This link is sent to the target via text message. When the target presses the link, a cookie connected to the link attaches itself to the target’s phone." Is this legal? I never click on links sent via SMS.
- sp332 7y agoThe person setting this up gets sent the link from The Spinner, and then has to figure out how to get it loaded on the target's device. Texting it to someone who trusts you (enough to click on a link anyway) is one way to get it done.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- PhasmaFelis 7y agoTheir FAQ says it's legal! ...In the same section that says users are required to show targets the terms of use and privacy policy.
- ipsa 7y agoI found this website really weird, with no "About us", so I searched some more. "Elliot Shefler" (some publications put his name in quotes) is a co-founder, but he does not want to appear in photos and online profiles himself. He is Turkish-Jewish and spent most of his life working in ad-tech and online gambling. He claims his algorithms were developed by an agency with links to the Israeli military (this is repurposed military/PSYOP technology?). His whereabouts are unknown, circling between Germany, London, and LA. In 2018 the price was 29$, now its 49$. Elliot claims $5.1 million revenue for 2018. Most customers are men, most customers want to initiate sex with a target. Nobody follows up to complain if it wasn't successful, since they are very much part of the conspiracy to manipulate. Elliot plans to share information with bigger advertisers: "A woman who wants a target to propose to her, would be in great proximity to a person that is in the market for an engagement ring". This service is illegal in Europe, due to data protection and anti-tracking laws. The site has about 10 employees and one British company who works the contracts with bigger companies. > “The value is in retention, not in the acquisition,” he said. > He related a story about one insurance company he was commissioned work on, where he would target the insurance agents at the company to “brainwash and manipulate” them and change the perception of the company itself with the goal of retaining those agents. > “We planned a similar campaign with a big pharmaceutical company that was targeting doctors (not patients—doctors) with articles about the benefits of a certain medicine.” > ... if he feels the same targeting tools he leverages for The Spinner could be vulnerable to possible misuse, his response was matter-of-fact: > “I would prefer using the word “effective” instead of ‘vulnerable.’ The answer is: highly effective.” Very, very shady.
- DesaiAshu 7y agoKudos to whichever HN reader decides to DDoS this site out of existence ;)
- leppr 7y agoI think we can agree that this site's existence is overall a good thing for privacy and security awareness. More people will look into how targeted advertising on the web works. It's very creepy but relatively harmless. It's simply democratizing what anyone can do with a bit of effort thanks to ad networks. Whoever controls the ad networks themselves however, can achieve far more invasive and nefarious things. Those are a far more dangerous threats to individual freedom than the distrust in ads and random web articles that this site could cause.
- wedn3sday 7y agoIn the next couple years a couple things are going to happen: 1) This (or something like it) will go open source. 2) An AI will be made to generate campaigns automatically. This can either use articles selected with some sort of sentiment analysis, or by generating the content itself with the next gen GPT-2. Neal Stephenson talked about this more then 10 years ago in the book Anathem, calling them "Artificial Inanity Engines."
- legionof7 7y agoI wonder if it's possible to build a defense service to this. Counter PsyOps as a service (if built, social networks should probably build it in for free). Make something that can detect if your stories seem to be manipulated and show stories that counteract that.
- rabidrat 7y agoMaybe something like an Ad-blocker would work.
- ourcat 7y agoThis is very much akin to the "weapons-grade" tools used by the likes of Cambridge Analytica and AIQ to manipulate the minds of Trump and Brexit voters, using ill-gotten Facebook data to work out exactly what pushes people's buttons. Tools like this will now be used during every election/voting cycle, forever. Extremely worrying, but inevitable.
- paulddraper 7y ago> Message: Prevent Phishing Attacks! > Target: Employeess Hmmm
- ai_ia 7y agoI think this is called Sniper Targetting [1] or providing ads for a single audience. Earlier I had read about someone who tried to spook his roommate by targetting him with heavily-personalized ads. Cannot seem to find it now. [1]: https://medium.com/@MichaelH_3009/sniper-targeting-on-facebook-how-to-target-one-specific-person-with-super-targeted-ads-515ba6e068f6 https://medium.com/@MichaelH_3009/sniper-targeting-on-facebo...
- PebblesRox 7y agoYeah, the roommate story is great! You can read it here: The Ultimate Retaliation: Pranking My Roommate with Targeted Facebook Ads. https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ https://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking...
- ai_ia 7y agoYeah. That one. Thanks.
- Torien 7y agoMy immediate thought when I saw this was "Fancy scam mixed with PR bomb", a little digging surfaced these: https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/2019/02/27/spinner/ https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/2019/02/27/spinner/ https://www.prexamples.com/2018/07/frustrated-husbands-can-use-micro-targeted-native-ads-to-influence-their-wives-to-initiate-sex-surely-a-pr-stunt-please-a-pr-stunt/ https://www.prexamples.com/2018/07/frustrated-husbands-can-u...
- VectorLock 7y agoThe harvard link touches on how he was using cheap Google Ads for this purpose. It reminds me of a shady "internet background check" company that I had the unfortunate pleasure of working with a few years ago. They were approaching, if not exceeding, this site in total shady tactics. One thing they did that their former-pill-pushing founders came up with which I did think was rather clever is they were able to buy Ad Words for cheap for various permutations of common given names and they used this to bootstrap their business to great effect.
- Mathnerd314 7y agoIt's certainly a bit sketchy in terms of site administration etc., but it is a one-man operation so I'd say it's understandable. The less understandable part is that it's charging $50 for 180 impressions such as https://twitter.com/RichLeighPR/status/1037066048485371905 https://twitter.com/RichLeighPR/status/1037066048485371905 while Facebook sells those directly for a few dollars per 1000, i.e. 100x markup.
- hammock 7y ago>The less understandable part is that it's charging $50 for 180 impressions such as https://twitter.com/RichLeighPR/status/1037066048485371905 https://twitter.com/RichLeighPR/status/1037066048485371905 while Facebook sells those directly for a few dollars per 1000, i.e. 100x markup. Facebook does not allow you to build a custom audience of 1 person. I believe it has to be a minimum size of 100 or thereabout. Which means when Spinner says your target will get 180 impressions, they have to throw in 99 random non-targets into the targeted audience in order to get the placement. Thus they really aren't marking it up as much as you think.
- deweller 7y agoWhat? How are they controlling what articles the target sees via a cookie? What am I missing here?
- cestith 7y agoMy guess they're setting ad preferences cookies for certain ad networks that are then used by various sites as pay-per-click revenue for the hosting sites. So when you'd see an ad served from Google's* ad network or Outbrain* or someone, it's as if the target had told those ad networks what kind of advertising interests them more than others. * These are named as examples of ad networks and I don't mean to imply they are used in this scheme and definitely not that they would be complicit or cooperative with it.
- jefftk 7y agoIt's based on remarketing technology. Just like Amazon can drop a cookie on your browser so they can later show you ads to convince you to come back and complete the blender purchase you have sitting in your cart, this site is offering to drop a cookie on the target and then show them ads for whatever message you would like to show.
- eternalny1 7y agoNo, I imagine this is more like you tell them your target's screename and then they just use regular ad analytics to target that person specifically.
- ipsa 7y agoAfter paying, you can select 3 popular articles, or create your own URL to link to. The service creates a shortened link (goo.gl) which, when clicked, drops the tracking cookie, and redirects to the article/own URL. Then they give you an important notice: the person you targeted with that link (which you are responsible for sending!) should also be referred to the terms of service of the Spinner. Sneaky loophole, where nobody will do that ("Hey honey, click this link and then visit this manipulation website to agree with the TOS!"), but they seemingly covered their asses, targeting people who never agreed to a TOS.
- dillondoyle 7y ago
- skrebbel 7y agoWould a service like this work on people who don't use the popular social networks? E.g. I get my news + dopamine from the local newspaper (physical paper edition) and HN, respectively. Ofc HN pretty much qualifies as a social network, but it has no targeting. My girlfriend isn't on any social network at all, unless WhatsApp qualifies as one and IMO it doesn't, unless you have a gazillion active group chats (which sounds like hell on earth). I'm inclined to think that this makes both of us immune to attacks like the ones performed by this company, but I have an uneasy feeling that I'm missing something. Anyone with a better insight in targeting hacks than me able to chip in?
- schoen 7y agoIf you click through to other sites, such as news sites, blogs, web comics, and so on, they may be loading ads from adtech companies, which may be retargeted based on your browser cookies without involving any social media site. So your overall vulnerability to this targeting has more to do with what your browser does (such as whether it blocks trackers and expires or removes some cookies) and what sites you visit (in terms of where they choose to embed ads from).
- ipsa 7y agoAnywhere you can see retargeted ads online you could be targeted. WhatsApp group chats were used to spread carefully crafted opposition memes and fake news. So, while you may be safe against 50$ campaigns, it could be a false sense of security. For 5000$-50000$ I am sure I can get a special message in front of your face: Take out local ads, plant a newspaper story, create a huge story about your controversial 5-million-dollar-revenue website on HackerNews (remember, no such thing as bad publicity, this website will see their customers spike today!) > He banked on people hate-tweeting it. “I don’t mind what they feel, as long as they think something”, Halib said – which is scarily like something I’ve said in talks I’ve given about coming up with PR ideas that bang.
- markstos 7y agoI regularly use seven browsers: Three different ones at work, two different ones on my home desktop and three different ones on my phone. My webmail intentionally runs in it's own browser profile which is only used for opening links in email. If the tracking cookie attached there it wouldn't apply to nearly any of my usual web browser usage. If you use Chrome for your browser, you can create a new profile and "web app" to run your web mail in. In Firefox, pin your web mail to a container. (Hopefully links followed from there stay in the container?) On your phone, open links from email in chat in Firefox Focus unless you have reason to do otherwise. In settings disable third party cookies. (Firefox Focus still allows normal cookies by default)
- SamBam 7y agoThis is assuming you don't use gmail, and sign into any other sites on your main browser profile using google credentials, of course.
- ryacko 7y agoThe real trick is to search for brands advertised in a magazine meant for a different demographic as you. Beyond that, IP addresses are the primary identifier on the internet, and all other tracking is meant to differentiate between different users on a single IP address. Temporary containers are a nice plug-in for Firefox.
- Nextgrid 7y agoI’m tempted to use this as a demonstration to a friend who still doesn’t believe me about targeted ads and the maliciousness of social media companies. I’d pay them to target her with an obviously irrelevant idea (have kids for example, considering she’s against kids and does not want any) and hand her an encrypted flash drive with a message saying I did that beforehand. A few weeks later I’d ask her about it and give her the key to decrypt the drive and read my message.
- slig 7y agoYou can also write your message locally and just email her the hash, then you can prove you had the original message. `echo -n "MESSAGE" | shasum -a 256`
- mkl 7y agoI think encryption is much more readily understood by nontechnical people than hashing, though.
- joshstrange 7y agoWhile I agree with you 100% for the general public I think if someone is manually decrypting a file (assumedly with gpg) they understand enough to get hashing. Now if you want to get into the realm of really "understood" by the public you should just send a Word doc or zip file with a password on it.
- mkl 7y agoYes, the latter is the kind of thing, no need for gpg complexity. The original comment talked about an encrypted flash drives, and that's usually done in a fairly accessible way.
- schoen 7y agoA few years ago Facebook had less stringent limitations on its ad targeting, and I believe Chris Soghoian was able to target ads to individual people (from the Google public policy team, if I remember correctly) by specifying enough intersecting demographic criteria related to each individual target. This probably doesn't work anymore because big tech companies have gotten stricter about how small the pool of targets for a demographically-targeted ad campaign can be. At one point, you might have been able to create a non-retargeting-based ad campaign that would only have targeted your friend! Edit: another amazing example using a different method is discussed elsewhere in this thread at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21094682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21094682.
- fidla 7y agoThis has got to be a joke
- djsumdog 7y agoExactly what I though. It's very Poe's Law.
- WarDores 7y agoKeep in mind that large companies are already using the surveillance and advertising complex to influence behavior, and have been for years. This just puts it in the hands of anyone with $50 to spend.
- Chickenality 7y agoFor those who find this horrifying, the [typically unstated] assumption is that it works. I'm pretty skeptical of this. Think about it: what do you imagine the effect size is of seeing 10 articles like "4 Secrets to Losing Weight and Feeling GREAT While You Do It!" in your Facebook feed? I'd bet it's essentially 0. If seeing these kinds of articles is all it took to improve our body composition, then we'd all be absolutely shredded. I'm not trying to argue that advertising doesn't work. Clearly it does. But there's a huge difference between being exposed to tens of thousands of Coca-Cola ads over a lifetime, and being exposed to 10 spam articles over the course of a month. I'm also not trying to argue that this isn't creepy. Clearly it is. But the real 'target' of this scheme is the person buying the ads. I doubt this has any real effect on the person who sees them.
- heyyyouu 7y agoYeah, it comes off as more as a way of taking advantage of desperate people willing to try anything.
- fidla 7y agoMy apologies I'm using an app that is not intuitive to comment and read.
- fzeroracer 7y agoYou have to remember the majority of people are both not tech savvy and don't pay attention to things like advertising trends. My mother for example is heavily affected by the ads she sees on Facebook and other places. All it takes is one or two articles and I've had to talk to her a few times about being careful about the sites she visits and what she reads online. So this service? This would be remarkably effective on people like her. This service isn't for people like us who are a bit more aware of how advertising works. It's for the majority of people.
- ipsa 7y agoFor some scientific research into this subject, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition_priming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition_priming (do note that this research suffers a bit from p-hacking). There is a good chance that you were already targeted before, since online manipulation is used by the big militaries. Think back about 2 years, reading about SJW, politics, neo-nazis, antifa, BLM, manspreading, immigrants, the deep state, etc. Good chance at least some of your perception about these subjects was molded by just a few individuals. For instance, remember that Russian girl throwing bleach on "manspreaders" in the metro? You may have had a strong reaction to that, and it would be the desired effect of Russian troll-factory. Specifically, on the effect of manipulating the Facebook feed to control behavior, Facebook did some controversial research themselves, where they used sentiment analysis to make a feed more or less positive. People who were fed negative feeds, started using negative words in their own status update: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-user-news-feeds-to-create-emotional-contagion/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/06/28/facebo... > The marketing study suggested companies should "[c]oncentrate media during prime vulnerability moments, aligning with content involving tips and tricks, instant beauty rescues, dressing for the success, getting organized for the week and empowering stories... Concentrate media during her most beautiful moments, aligning with content involving weekend guides, weekend style, beauty tips for social activities and positive stories." The Facebook study, combined with last year's marketing study suggests that marketers may not need to wait until Mondays or Thursdays to have an emotional impact, instead social media companies may be able to manipulate timelines and news feeds to create emotionally fueled marketing opportunities.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago> * According to The Spinner's terms of use, if the initiator of the Spinner service (i.e. the party that ordered and/or paid for the service) sends the 'targeting link' to any user via any digital media, it’s the initiator’s responsibility to refer the recipient to The Spinner's terms of use and privacy policy.* Uh huh.
- heyyyouu 7y agoYou can do the same exact thing with facebook advertising. People have done it (job ads, apartments, etc.). This is just targeted at banner/Web vs. social media. Doesn't make it any more or less icky, just saying that it's not the only method/it's happening already.
- safwan 7y agoFirefox will block all the tracking cookie! So can not apply to me! ;)
- ferCats99 7y agoWell, I just opened the link and Facebook started showing ads related to "Marrying my partner", "Initiate sex", funny thing because I'm single
- fidla 7y agoApparently the guy who set it up is from Turkey but lives in Germany
- flimflamm 7y agoIllegal in Europe. You need to agreement for this kind of tracking.
- calibas 7y agoI was curious as to how it all works, from the FAQ: >The Spinner* sends you an innocent looking link. This link is sent to the target via text message. When the target presses the link, a cookie connected to the link attaches itself to the target’s phone. From that point on, the target will be strategically bombarded with articles and media tailored to him or her. So it's using a tracking cookie and the victim needs to click a link before anything happens. More from the FAQ: >Thanks to an online advertising technique called "retargeting", the service makes sure that only the target sees the content chosen for her or him. I assume Google Ad's remarketing (or SaaS, "stalking as a service") is what was meant: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453998?hl=en&ref_topic=3122875 https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453998?hl=en&r... So as far as I can tell, the whole thing is just using marketing features built into Google Ads.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- typeformer 7y agoI think I know who built this
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- neom 7y agoFT has an interesting article on it from last year: https://www.ft.com/content/944d068c-8a99-11e8-affd-da9960227309 https://www.ft.com/content/944d068c-8a99-11e8-affd-da9960227...
- VectorLock 7y agoDidn't Facebook for a while have the ability to target a single individual for ads? I seem to remember seeing some things on HN about people doing this a while back. Makes sense that someone would turn it into a service.
- davinic 7y agoYes, and I think they still technically do. At some point they changed it from a single target email to requiring 20, but you could get around this by uploading 19 others of a different gender, then use gender as a filter later on when creating the target list.
- beeschlenker 7y agoThis is no spin: Pres Trump backs Int'l Soros child rape ring for $4billion bribe Pelosi rec'd $3b 'to ensure safe passage over border'. Rapists include Obama, Schumer, Cuomo, Buttgieg, DeBlasio, Dorsey, Theil, BMurray. 60+ deaths from rapes in BuffaloNYJan2019, $15+billion in payoffs. Listen to them do it here: \\New().footage now available [Soros, 0bama child rapes on: 15Jan 4-6am\], Obama around 5:24AM: "Why is there so much blood? Someone get me something to clean the blood off my dick...." \\The footage gets censored in LA\, NYC, CHI, SF, BOS, DC...why are these wealthy high profile child rapists, who are caught in the act, able to remain free with no action by the FBI?? • note: {} groups of links are multiple ways to get the same file:. 15JanCh3_347-528.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q8YeDzghf95FQrxBaMpXK4b-SfJYERs8/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q8YeDzghf95FQrxBaMpXK4b-SfJ... https://mega.nz/#!bTQwDQDA!jolSOqGR2Zomhtn7zIG0lGmqXSqe3KG1mO_7nKLrqNo https://mega.nz/#!bTQwDQDA!jolSOqGR2Zomhtn7zIG0lGmqXSqe3KG1m... 15JanCh3_528\-545.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DavyRFWTRv4_teHYewpQMwMCq6LDzb6Y/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DavyRFWTRv4_teHYewpQMwMCq6L... https://mega.nz/#!DfBywKKR!llMUzB8DLM2Rcvm0QkOKdiE3PpCY5YeR3yJwrm9R_4U https://mega.nz/#!DfBywKKR!llMUzB8DLM2Rcvm0QkOKdiE3PpCY5YeR3... \\15JanCh4_400-600avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DavnBCyhq_JRmST2QH5qlojUE6dr5IWS/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DavnBCyhq_JRmST2QH5qlojUE6d... https://mega.nz/#!faZggSja!yF_QOcodvYXwk7qEO1N8eSaV90ZWUUaS18Surn8rnEU https://mega.nz/#!faZggSja!yF_QOcodvYXwk7qEO1N8eSaV90ZWUUaS1... See pages 18->23,8,11,12,35,45,61,62, and update list at end of doc\. Having trouble getting traction. Getting censored\banned. Billions in bribes paid to Trump, Pelosi, Schumer, Harris to enable a Soros funded child raping ring to operate in the USA. Please download and listen to the links below. Turn up the volume and put headphones on. You will hear these people and many other high profile people, incriminate themselves in unbelievable fashion. Full 83 page document [updated 9Sep\] filled with red handed evidence like this at the bottom. Go to pages 18 thru 36 of this document and you will hear Doursey and Theil raping children. You will hear their crying and screams. They both rape and kill three boys. Also at the "rape party" of note\: Bill DeBlasio, Andrew Cuomo, Bill Murray, Peter Buttgeig, George Soros, Barack Obama. Please copy and paste this post and repost it, or save it in a text file for later because it will likely get removed sooner or later. I keep getting censored by these people. • Bill De\Blasio\'s turn starts at 21:00. He kills five boys (pg 35): https://mega.nz/#!OCJwQSBC!AlER6vRRTKS8yvSxnVwAl3ha3kGDLqoouQe53zkGARg https://mega.nz/#!OCJwQSBC!AlER6vRRTKS8yvSxnVwAl3ha3kGDLqoou... • Andrew Coumo\'s starts at 22:00. He kills four boys. (pgs 35-36\): https://mega.nz/#!qKZChABY!zy-2jIHqEg4gWHNbiEym-YBdSs5Y9qzT2ARieV_eozA https://mega.nz/#!qKZChABY!zy-2jIHqEg4gWHNbiEym-YBdSs5Y9qzT2... • \Both files in one here: 14JanCh3_2100-2300\.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yolCgVtY5b8d8YDcshwb-Yd3kS0Jg-Bk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yolCgVtY5b8d8YDcshwb-Yd3kS0... \\Peter Theil starts at 1:00am, Jack Dorsey at 1:30am each raping and killing three boys. Turn the volume all the way up and put head phones on\. Pages 19\20.. https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_100-200.avi https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_1... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mzZrjobxhNIEf38M3xk-IeA5SeF4aUtB/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mzZrjobxhNIEf38M3xk-IeA5SeF... https://mega.nz/#!qHhRiKLI!Tl1AnP0Lq6GIBH2MGitYNuXoe81uYeVQdxwSaZ8CY7o https://mega.nz/#!qHhRiKLI!Tl1AnP0Lq6GIBH2MGitYNuXoe81uYeVQd... \\Obama admits to raping and killing boys here at about 5:47Am w\ commentary from Peter Theil, George Soros, Matt Porter:. https://s3.wasabisys.com/out2/Out2/15JanCh3_0545.avi https://s3.wasabisys.com/out2/Out2/15JanCh3_0545.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LCDoc1kT7cfSeKQ1vniP_sx32_bRsHau/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LCDoc1kT7cfSeKQ1vniP_sx32_b... https://mega.nz/#!veBk1KrL!zkO_keTyZAtNoTGEGsfRmXyuVIj9p8c3R8GtY-o_Nt8 https://mega.nz/#!veBk1KrL!zkO_keTyZAtNoTGEGsfRmXyuVIj9p8c3R... \\DTrump demands $4 billion to "take a blind eye" at 1015+\. Here is pieces of dialogue: 1018 Henry Porter: The child raping. 1018 Donald Trump: What the fuck are you talking about 1018 Gigi Hadid: Mr President we are child rapists. 1018 Donald Trump: You cannot be serious. 1019 Donald Trump: Youre gonna need $4 billion for me to take a blind eye. 1019 Porter: People are laughing because they think four billion is too much. I think it's not a problem when you have $35 billion. 1022 Donald Trump: You better have that $4 billion or you can kiss this shit goodbye. https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv2/3Jan/3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv2/3Jan/3JanCh3_900-1100.avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77YG0Vr/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Grdr8xF2psKNsuYlEnl9dIRV-77... https://mega.nz/#!TKgxzS5J!i-nWn3HaOAJPU7rju83B4qcwSzun4Dl2B29FEZxtMSU https://mega.nz/#!TKgxzS5J!i-nWn3HaOAJPU7rju83B4qcwSzun4Dl2B... Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi agreeing to $3 billion for safe passage at Monterrey (page 11)\: 1033 Nancy Pelosi: We want to make sure you have safe passage at Monterrey. 1033 Matthew Porter: We appreciate that Speaker Pelosi. 1033 Gigi Hadid: I think we may have to scale back a little bit though. 1033 Nancy Pelosi: Gigi I think we will be just fine. 1035 Nancy Pelosi: God damn it\! I want Kamala to get a billion out of yours, not out of mine 1035 Gigi Hadid: I think we can accommodate you but we need to find out if Monterrey will be open on the 30th of January. 1036 Nancy Pelosi: Of course it will Gigi 1036 Nancy Pelosi: $3 billion goes a long way Peter [Theil\]. \\17JanCh3_949-1100avi https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1CZUvmE/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eodHu4o5Cm3xEWhDqipSuTj-M1C... https://mega.nz/#!uXJUTYrI!-6eJXCWHSKhbHRv5p3df1a9k2-hHr9bxd5bkjxvgguY https://mega.nz/#!uXJUTYrI!-6eJXCWHSKhbHRv5p3df1a9k2-hHr9bxd... \\Trump wants $138 million to ensure smooth outcome for false judgement, as in no trial or hearing, simply entering in a judgement into the system thus bypassing the fifth amendment right of due process\: https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/10JanCh3/10JanCh3_951-1033.avi https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/10JanCh3/10JanCh3_951-1033.av... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iSeGHDToFRoRdIht50Wii0i30mlw9INp/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iSeGHDToFRoRdIht50Wii0i30ml... https://mega.nz/#!jSwzFYLY!RFQvL8KIyFZf1WfC6tGoPFgJ4aREeGE_pe3i2fwshy8 https://mega.nz/#!jSwzFYLY!RFQvL8KIyFZf1WfC6tGoPFgJ4aREeGE_p... Obama explains the Illuminati with Jack Doursey..At 2:30 a conversation is occurring on the embedded Porter camera system with Jack Dorsey, Peter Theil, Barack 0bama, Bill Murray, and the Porters. Jack Dorsey provides a statement defining who their group is: "The Illuminati is an underground organization of child rapists and homosexuals." Matthew Portr: "We have to thin the herd, so Barack is going to explain a few things." At 2:32 Barack 0bama says the following: "You people have to realize we are child rapists. The Illuminati are chil.d rapists. As soon as you figure that out, you can decide what to do. Everybody is freaking out about what just happened [child raping event still going on\]. This is who we are\": https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_200-347.avi https://s3.wasabisys.com/conv1/Overnight_14-17Jan/15JanCh3_2... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ok1-9IvANULzKBOwADFgaiYCFi6yszfj/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ok1-9IvANULzKBOwADFgaiYCFi6... https://mega.nz/#!nbhTwALA!qmf_0Lq0jApSwxRj1KRS_Q7QYbg4aJc4JMU9rDjR_yo https://mega.nz/#!nbhTwALA!qmf_0Lq0jApSwxRj1KRS_Q7QYbg4aJc4J... Full 83 page document [update 9Sep]: Three ways to get it: https://s3.wasabisys.com/aviewmefirst/FBI_FinalDraft_26Jul2019_BSchlenker.pdf https://s3.wasabisys.com/aviewmefirst/FBI_FinalDraft_26Jul20... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJc9cGk/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sj9EN_pHmicKS6rFQlmk67knMdJ... https://mega.nz/#!OKYwES6A!zPGcRSg5de1XALI3FtUH3FCNCuLUzQbZN0l5iNCQqmU https://mega.nz/#!OKYwES6A!zPGcRSg5de1XALI3FtUH3FCNCuLUzQbZN... \\Please post this anywhere you can\! Each Google drive and Mega.nzlink is a backup to the Wasebi link just in case one is "down". Getting blocked, censored, 'down\voted' etc. These people are extremely wealthy and throw money to anyone who will help them cover up their child rapes &murders, corruption. Ironically\, this is usually done through a receivership transfer where you receive the funds after for or more day, and it can be pulled at the last second, which is usually the case after you've done them the "service" as they call it. A word about the "f@\#&ot" usage: it was a necessary tool. It showed three things: they were not in control, if they were the usage would have been stopped. Everyone out there needed to see this. Two, it made it unpleasant for them to be in the head space, which has obvious advantages. Three it pointed out impersonators of B.S. because they would not call each other f@\%ot, thus helping to mitigate the spread of false information. Apologies for those unintentionally offended. On that note I give you Barack 0bama in a foursome with Peter Thiel, Jack Dorsey, and Matthew Porter. It is on page 12 of the document where you can download the video containing audio footage of the "event". Link for the doc is just above under "Full 83 page document".
- djsumdog 7y agoI laughed uncontrollably. I knew it was one of those classic 2000s style hoax sites like Coincidence Design ($40k private investigator to find out everything to make someone fall in love with you), or Penguin Warehouse (penguins as pets) or Pets or Food ... all funny, none real. But wait .. this is ... real? Like they take real money from people? .... huh ... what was that quote about how everything that was once parody is reality? This is some serious Poe's Law stuff here.
- abootstrapper 7y agoI thought it was satire. Satire died in 2016, but I still haven’t learned.
- manjana 7y agoThis is manipulation and quite despicable imho. Besides I'd rather make my own "nudging" (or spearphishing) campaign and save a few bucks if need ever showed.
- sixtypoundhound 7y agoProduct suggestion: bump the price to $99 and 20 x the traffic over a longer delivery window. You need more impressions than offered to meaningfully affect target beliefs. You can mix in cheaper ad space as well. None of these have a direct call to action.... thus you need additional impressions to build recall or trigger inception.
- Oblouk 7y agoThis is like a shitty SecretNudge.com
- ilaksh 7y agoSounds like an episode of Black Mirror.
- serkanh 7y agolol Poor man's Cambridge analytica!
- serkanh 7y agoPoor man's Cambridge Analytica!
- zoba 7y agoInitially I was disgusted, but, then I realized I'd be interested in a "Make your parents skeptical of Fox News" option.
- w_t_payne 7y agoLike any technology it can be used for good or evil ... but it has to be said ... anger is a helluva drug.
- tracker1 7y agoConsidering how many stories CNN, ABC and MSNBC have gotten wrong (and retracted the next morning), I'm not sure they're any better. At least Fox's bias is obvious. They also tend to have a more diverse guest list in terms of political leaning. BTW, I really don't watch much Fox news, I tend to read about things a few days after they have happened. When I stay active on twitter, it's all a cesspool of lies, and I am pretty sure the news media is part of it.
- learc83 7y ago>They also tend to have a more diverse guest list in terms of political leaning. I'm going to need to see some evidence for that one because it doesn't match what I've seen at all.
- awinder 7y agoThat evidence is stored on the other side of the looking glass, you can see them, but you’re gonna have to jump.
- learc83 7y agoI watched Fox News regularly until 2015 or so, so unless the changed dramatically since then the statement about them having more politically diverse guests is just wrong.
- sgustard 7y ago
- leovander 7y agoI think I have seen this link[0] posted a few times in related posts (I might have shared it as well). [0] http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-my-roommate-with-targeted-facebook-ads/ http://ghostinfluence.com/the-ultimate-retaliation-pranking-...
- w_t_payne 7y agoFrankly I'm surprised this isn't augmented with some sort of hyperlocal lat/long or zip-code based targeting to, for example, influence all the workers at a specific office building. It wouldn't take much for a company to bombard it's competitor's staff members with wacky conspiracy theories and/or other things to make them less effective.
- seamyb88 7y agoRight, so it's malware? Good old malware which once upon a time was frowned upon. Keep on top of that really special person who has a restraining order on you.
- evan_ 7y agoI don't think it's malware, it sounds like it's just using retargeting ads.
- ryacko 7y agoReminds me of something about a true crime case on TV. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-drawn-to-murder/2/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-drawn-to-murder/2/ >But the plan went still further: at one point, police duped a newspaper reporter into writing a phony story saying an arrest was imminent. They even left a copy of Tim's mother's obituary on the windshield of a friend's truck. >"That's torture," says Tim's former attorney, Erik Fischer. "They're trying to get this poor kid to relive his mother's death. They're trying to make him snap! It's a psychological experiment to try to make him snap!"
- kkotak 7y agoI think Darren Brown claims to use short term persuasive power to influence people to drastically change their mind about intimate things.
- driverdan 7y agoHe claims that but it isn't true. He's a magician doing tricks.
- sebastianconcpt 7y agoFascinating. This is propaganda war at a micro scale.
- erikpukinskis 7y agoI appreciate the “this is evil” analysis, but I have a different take on it: Packaging this capability for everyday people is exactly what we need to get widespread understanding of what is being done to them, and begin to build social defenses. Political parties, corporations, and all kinds of bad actors are doing this stuff all the time. People need to find ways to externally validate their realities. I don’t see any way that can happen besides widespread adoption of consumer psyops tools. It feels like Pandora’s Box has been opened, and we need to get comfy with the monsters as a first step, if we are to subdue them.
- rolleiflex 7y agoYes — this is the thing that will make it click for the ordinary people: that when we talk about online advertising, it’s not the digital equivalent of printed magazine ads we’re talking about, we’re talking about this. This, bought en masse, by most companies on Earth.
- newshorts 7y agoWould be interested to hear someone who actually had success with this.
- anaxag0ras 7y agoI don't know why but the Spinner video reminded me of the Friendface ad[1]. Maybe because both are hilarious in some ways and horrifying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg
- Absor 7y agoThe site took so long to load that I thought it was for showing the loading spinner tab icon, which also fit the name of the site. I had to go wait it out after reading the comments which seemed unrelated to the first experience.