10 ms·

> I hope Gnome is able to take a Newegg approach here and kill the patent. How do you propose paying for that? It is fantastically expensive.

by mcherm 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tombert 7y ago
If anyone from the Gnome team is listening, if you guys started a GoFundMe or something to help with legal fees to challenge this, I would throw twenty bucks your way. I'd be happy if someone held me to that.
- hipsterstal1n 7y ago
  It cost Newegg $60,000 to fight their patent troll. Gnome team is going to need a lot more then $20.
  - hondadriver 7y ago
    He will not be the only one throwing $20...
  - tombert 7y ago
    I know, but $60,000 / $20/person = ~3,000 people. That really isn't that much in the scope of things.
  - input_sh 7y ago
    Donating to an open source project to combat a software patent troll? I could already see this story making headlines in pretty much every tech news outlet there is. They'd get a few thousand individual donations for sure.
    - amelius 7y ago
      And sadly it will be the lawyers laughing their way to the bank. Or will some of the money be recovered if the case is won? Thinking about it, wouldn't it be fair if you were more than compensated in case you won a lawsuit filed against you?
      - codedokode 7y ago
        Aren't expenses for lawyers compensated by the losing party?
        tjalfi 7y ago
        Loser pays (the English rule[0]) can apply in the U.S. but is quite uncommon. Most of the time both parties are responsible for their own legal fees[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_(attorney%27s_fees) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_(attorney%27s_fee... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney's_fees) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney's_fees...
        GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        > Federal courts also possess inherent authority to assess attorney’s fees and litigation costs against a plaintiff who has acted in bad faith, vexatiously, wantonly or for oppressive reasons. Patent trolls obviously act in bad faith.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    > It cost Newegg $60,000 to fight their patent troll. Gnome team is going to need a lot more then $20. Wow, that's all? That's actually really encouraging, if true. I would have assumed it was millions.
    - sjwright 7y ago
      Even if that is correct, you still need to have a couple hundred grand in reserve in case the judge is a dumbass and you lose.
- danShumway 7y ago
  I would donate to an effort to kill this patent as well. We have to start getting more aggressive in these scenarios. If the patent isn't killed, they're just going to turn around and sue someone else with it. So if we want a world where small players can compete with the likes of Microsoft or Facebook, we need to retaliate against trolls who go after small players.
  - djsumdog 7y ago
    It's not just the patent. That whole company needs to be killed. They serve no useful purpose; the epitome of bullshit jobs. Honestly I wish more countries would take New Zealand's approach and just outright ban all software patents. There is no reason any software patent should exist.
    - danShumway 7y ago
      I don't disagree, but I don't think you can bring a legal case to a judge that a company can't exist. But if every one of their threats resulted in someone dragging them into an expensive fight over whether or not that patent was valid, maybe eventually they'd just go bankrupt from the legal fees. Essentially, use their own strategy against them. Whenever they sue someone, they have two choices: roll over and let the patent get invalidated, or fight an expensive lawsuit against a party that refuses to settle.
      - freeopinion 7y ago
        Where is the satisfaction of having a troll bankrupted by litigation? If the troll went bankrupt, it probably means: * The lawyers got paid so much money there is no more money left to pay the receptionist and the power company and the copier rental. * The troll is protected from paying any damages to the legal team that defeated them. So the lawyers/executives suck up all the money and move on, leaving a wake of destruction behind them. In many cases, that should be considered criminal.
    - coldpie 7y ago
      > That whole company needs to be killed. And the owners both bankrupted and jailed, or they'll just do it again.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  The GNOME Foundation takes donations[0], I think it would probably be good if they had some way to signal that you only want the money in a legal defense fund (especially given that sometimes they put Foundation resources behind controversial things which I myself don't want to support). Nonetheless I'm throwing some money into the pot, hopefully it is used to fight this troll case, which thankfully may be so facially ridiculous that it is thrown out. [0]: https://www.gnome.org/support-gnome/donate/ https://www.gnome.org/support-gnome/donate/
  - rdc12 7y ago
    Not a GNOME user so I have no idea what the GNOME foundation gets up too, what sort of controversial things have they funded in the past?
    - flukus 7y ago
      Look at the staff list https://www.gnome.org/foundation/staff/ https://www.gnome.org/foundation/staff/ . It's top heavy with useless people running "diversity initiatives" and "anti-harassment teams" and only one Gtk dev. If they had 10 developers then maybe there'd be a place for these people, but at the moment I don't agree with their priorities. I'd happily donate to a legal fund to fight this lawsuit though.
      - the_why_of_y 7y ago
        The role of a typical FLOSS foundation is to enable development by providing neutral infrastructure and organizational efforts, for example organizing conferences & hackfests with travel reimbursements, boring accounting & paperwork, maintaining trademarks, avoiding legal risks; the actual development will be done by interested companies and individuals.
        microcolonel 7y ago
        I think part of what flukus was getting at is not supported by that staff page. GNOME has outreach and sponsorship programs, but they all seem to be gender discriminatory, and focused more on external social causes than on the quality of GNOME software. GNOME Foundation could probably just use GitLab.com, it wouldn't take a full time staff if their focus was infrastructure. It seems like the GNOME Foundation is predisposed with gaining institutional power over the symbols of GNOME, to egoistically control the community.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  > GoFundMe oh, that American health insurance website.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    I mean didn't the people of Belgium recently did the equivalent of gofundme to raise money for treatment for a toddler for the drug Zolgensma?
    - PTcartelsLOL 7y ago
      Belgium, I dunno. But it happened in Portugal. Governmeant ended up paying for the medicine. The parents kept the €2.5m...
      - pkaye 7y ago
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49739845 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49739845
  - tudelo 7y ago
    Yeah, that's exactly what it is...
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Ditto. Patent trolls need to be destroyed. Put me down for $20 if it comes up.
- soperj 7y ago
  I'm in for $20 too.
- levinb 7y ago
  Same here. Documenting and open-sourcing the legal effort around this could be good experience for people that help in other similar situations.
- dhimes 7y ago
  I'm in.
aquabeagle 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Foundation Revenue (2014) - $667,370
- imglorp 7y ago
  Is this the first time a troll has gone after an open source project? Is there a precedent? Are they after the usual troll thing, a quick settlement less than lawyer fees to fight it? Does nonprofit status of the victim become relevant?
- ldng 7y ago
  If you really want to know, it's not hidden : https://www.gnome.org/foundation/reports/ https://www.gnome.org/foundation/reports/ Donations are not necessarily consistent over years. You'll also have expanses.
pera 7y ago
They could start some sort of anti-patent troll foundation / joint effort with Cloudflare, Newegg, the EFF, etc. I would personally donate hundreds each year if such organization existed, patent trolls are my worst software nightmare.
asah 7y ago
Gnome accepts direct donations a number of online payment methods including paypal and bitcoin. They are 501(3)c tax deductible. (I just donated $50 - good luck guys)
patentatt 7y ago
I’m a patent litigator. I’ll do the work for free. I’d do it myself but I don’t want to also front the ~$20k for an IPR filing fee.
yummypaint 7y ago
This is a good potential pro bono case, there are some big firms that might be willing to pick it up since theyre unlikely to be conflicted out

> I hope Gnome is able to take a Newegg approach here and kill the patent. How do you propose paying for that? It is fantastically expensive.

by mcherm 7y ago

> I hope Gnome is able to take a Newegg approach here and kill the patent. How do you propose paying for that? It is fantastically expensive.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

tombert 7y ago

If anyone from the Gnome team is listening, if you guys started a GoFundMe or something to help with legal fees to challenge this, I would throw twenty bucks your way. I'd be happy if someone held me to that.

hipsterstal1n 7y ago
It cost Newegg $60,000 to fight their patent troll. Gnome team is going to need a lot more then $20.
- hondadriver 7y ago
  He will not be the only one throwing $20...
- tombert 7y ago
  I know, but $60,000 / $20/person = ~3,000 people. That really isn't that much in the scope of things.
- input_sh 7y ago
  Donating to an open source project to combat a software patent troll? I could already see this story making headlines in pretty much every tech news outlet there is. They'd get a few thousand individual donations for sure.
  - amelius 7y ago
    And sadly it will be the lawyers laughing their way to the bank. Or will some of the money be recovered if the case is won? Thinking about it, wouldn't it be fair if you were more than compensated in case you won a lawsuit filed against you?
    - codedokode 7y ago
      Aren't expenses for lawyers compensated by the losing party?
      - tjalfi 7y ago
        Loser pays (the English rule[0]) can apply in the U.S. but is quite uncommon. Most of the time both parties are responsible for their own legal fees[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_(attorney%27s_fees) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_(attorney%27s_fee... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney's_fees) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney's_fees...
        GoblinSlayer 7y ago
        > Federal courts also possess inherent authority to assess attorney’s fees and litigation costs against a plaintiff who has acted in bad faith, vexatiously, wantonly or for oppressive reasons. Patent trolls obviously act in bad faith.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  > It cost Newegg $60,000 to fight their patent troll. Gnome team is going to need a lot more then $20. Wow, that's all? That's actually really encouraging, if true. I would have assumed it was millions.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    Even if that is correct, you still need to have a couple hundred grand in reserve in case the judge is a dumbass and you lose.
danShumway 7y ago
I would donate to an effort to kill this patent as well. We have to start getting more aggressive in these scenarios. If the patent isn't killed, they're just going to turn around and sue someone else with it. So if we want a world where small players can compete with the likes of Microsoft or Facebook, we need to retaliate against trolls who go after small players.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  It's not just the patent. That whole company needs to be killed. They serve no useful purpose; the epitome of bullshit jobs. Honestly I wish more countries would take New Zealand's approach and just outright ban all software patents. There is no reason any software patent should exist.
  - danShumway 7y ago
    I don't disagree, but I don't think you can bring a legal case to a judge that a company can't exist. But if every one of their threats resulted in someone dragging them into an expensive fight over whether or not that patent was valid, maybe eventually they'd just go bankrupt from the legal fees. Essentially, use their own strategy against them. Whenever they sue someone, they have two choices: roll over and let the patent get invalidated, or fight an expensive lawsuit against a party that refuses to settle.
    - freeopinion 7y ago
      Where is the satisfaction of having a troll bankrupted by litigation? If the troll went bankrupt, it probably means: * The lawyers got paid so much money there is no more money left to pay the receptionist and the power company and the copier rental. * The troll is protected from paying any damages to the legal team that defeated them. So the lawyers/executives suck up all the money and move on, leaving a wake of destruction behind them. In many cases, that should be considered criminal.
  - coldpie 7y ago
    > That whole company needs to be killed. And the owners both bankrupted and jailed, or they'll just do it again.
microcolonel 7y ago
The GNOME Foundation takes donations[0], I think it would probably be good if they had some way to signal that you only want the money in a legal defense fund (especially given that sometimes they put Foundation resources behind controversial things which I myself don't want to support). Nonetheless I'm throwing some money into the pot, hopefully it is used to fight this troll case, which thankfully may be so facially ridiculous that it is thrown out. [0]: https://www.gnome.org/support-gnome/donate/ https://www.gnome.org/support-gnome/donate/
- rdc12 7y ago
  Not a GNOME user so I have no idea what the GNOME foundation gets up too, what sort of controversial things have they funded in the past?
  - flukus 7y ago
    Look at the staff list https://www.gnome.org/foundation/staff/ https://www.gnome.org/foundation/staff/ . It's top heavy with useless people running "diversity initiatives" and "anti-harassment teams" and only one Gtk dev. If they had 10 developers then maybe there'd be a place for these people, but at the moment I don't agree with their priorities. I'd happily donate to a legal fund to fight this lawsuit though.
    - the_why_of_y 7y ago
      The role of a typical FLOSS foundation is to enable development by providing neutral infrastructure and organizational efforts, for example organizing conferences & hackfests with travel reimbursements, boring accounting & paperwork, maintaining trademarks, avoiding legal risks; the actual development will be done by interested companies and individuals.
      - microcolonel 7y ago
        I think part of what flukus was getting at is not supported by that staff page. GNOME has outreach and sponsorship programs, but they all seem to be gender discriminatory, and focused more on external social causes than on the quality of GNOME software. GNOME Foundation could probably just use GitLab.com, it wouldn't take a full time staff if their focus was infrastructure. It seems like the GNOME Foundation is predisposed with gaining institutional power over the symbols of GNOME, to egoistically control the community.
djsumdog 7y ago
> GoFundMe oh, that American health insurance website.
- pkaye 7y ago
  I mean didn't the people of Belgium recently did the equivalent of gofundme to raise money for treatment for a toddler for the drug Zolgensma?
  - PTcartelsLOL 7y ago
    Belgium, I dunno. But it happened in Portugal. Governmeant ended up paying for the medicine. The parents kept the €2.5m...
    - pkaye 7y ago
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49739845 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49739845
- tudelo 7y ago
  Yeah, that's exactly what it is...
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
Ditto. Patent trolls need to be destroyed. Put me down for $20 if it comes up.
soperj 7y ago
I'm in for $20 too.
levinb 7y ago
Same here. Documenting and open-sourcing the legal effort around this could be good experience for people that help in other similar situations.
dhimes 7y ago
I'm in.

aquabeagle 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Foundation Revenue (2014) - $667,370

imglorp 7y ago
Is this the first time a troll has gone after an open source project? Is there a precedent? Are they after the usual troll thing, a quick settlement less than lawyer fees to fight it? Does nonprofit status of the victim become relevant?
ldng 7y ago
If you really want to know, it's not hidden : https://www.gnome.org/foundation/reports/ https://www.gnome.org/foundation/reports/ Donations are not necessarily consistent over years. You'll also have expanses.

pera 7y ago

They could start some sort of anti-patent troll foundation / joint effort with Cloudflare, Newegg, the EFF, etc. I would personally donate hundreds each year if such organization existed, patent trolls are my worst software nightmare.

asah 7y ago

Gnome accepts direct donations a number of online payment methods including paypal and bitcoin. They are 501(3)c tax deductible. (I just donated $50 - good luck guys)

patentatt 7y ago

I’m a patent litigator. I’ll do the work for free. I’d do it myself but I don’t want to also front the ~$20k for an IPR filing fee.

yummypaint 7y ago

This is a good potential pro bono case, there are some big firms that might be willing to pick it up since theyre unlikely to be conflicted out