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This law is really terrible, but maybe decisions like this will help abolish it. After all, if one can find the information with a VPN, it becomes less useful t

This law is really terrible, but maybe decisions like this will help abolish it. After all, if one can find the information with a VPN, it becomes less useful to enforce this law and people who want to change their record will do it the old way, applying to the person publishing the information or the courts to get it removed instead of getting it delistet in search engines.

StreamBright 7y ago
>> This law is really terrible Why?
- DocTomoe 7y ago
  It moves responsibility from the publisher to the indexer. Essentially, it's like your privacy rights were violated in a novel, so instead of going after the publisher to cease and desist, you sue every single library (and technically every non-organizational owner of said novel) to burn their copy.
  - easymodex 7y ago
    Well, it's actually like there is just 1 novel in somebody's basement which noone will ever stumble upon... unless it's in top 3 hits when looking up your name at the one single library that everyone is using.
    - DocTomoe 7y ago
      ... or someone happens to search for any other information in that book.
  - Grumbledour 7y ago
    Pretty much this. In addition to that, the responsibility to decide what should be taken down/delisted is also moved from the publisher/courts of law to the indexer, so there is no due process.
- donatj 7y ago
  I don’t think people should be able to cover up the truth. That’s rotten. If there are lies about you, that’s covered by slander law. Not letting others know things that are true that reflect poorly on you is though is a different story. Take for instance the since-freed murderers who have used the law to hide their past actions. I don’t think that is something you should have the right to ask the world to forget.
  - krastanov 7y ago
    I might be missing the forest for the trees here, but I strongly dislike your example. In a country with a working justice system, the expectation is that after you are done with your prison sentence you are rehabilitated. Making it more difficult for ex-cons to reenter society only leads to further recidivism. I am aware that the US does not have such a justice system, but for many countries in Northwest Europe this is a reality and this law makes sense there. Basically, I have no problem with only law-enforcement having a record of the past mistakes of reformed people, assuming that 1) law enforcement is actually "serving and protecting" and 2) the justice systems ensures a high fraction of cons are actually reformed.
    - hartator 7y ago
      But I don’t think you should be put in jail for telling the truth. It’s basically what this law is about.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        Truth isn't an absolute defense. If you privately record someone without permission, you don't get to share that just because it's true.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        And in the US, when dealing with private individuals (not the government's ability to collect and use information), the situations where truth isn't an absolute defense are extremely rare. Even the unidirectional right of private recording varies from state to state. This is a fundamental philosophical difference between the US and much of Europe. I'm not sure precisely from where it arises (though I suspect it stems from a combination of the US government tracing its historical roots to Enlightenment-era thinking on personal liberty and the English government having a law against sedition; the American colonies organizing a rebellion in spite of that law).
nocturnial 7y ago
>This law is really terrible, but maybe decisions like this will help abolish it. After all, if one can find the information with a VPN, it becomes less useful to enforce this law Should we really only enact laws when they can be enforced worldwide?
- __david__ 7y ago
  With regard to the internet? I wouldn't say "no" as a blanket statement, but what's the point of a law if it's super trivial to legally sidestep?
  - nocturnial 7y ago
    How does an EU person or company trivially and legally sidestep this? There's the trivial solution of hosting it on a server outside of the EU but I doubt it's legal if the entity is still in the EU. There's the legal solution of moving outside of the EU and assuming another nationality but for most persons that's not trivial.
    - repolfx 7y ago
      VPN.
SomeOldThrow 7y ago
Why is the law terrible?

StreamBright 7y ago

>> This law is really terrible Why?

DocTomoe 7y ago
It moves responsibility from the publisher to the indexer. Essentially, it's like your privacy rights were violated in a novel, so instead of going after the publisher to cease and desist, you sue every single library (and technically every non-organizational owner of said novel) to burn their copy.
- easymodex 7y ago
  Well, it's actually like there is just 1 novel in somebody's basement which noone will ever stumble upon... unless it's in top 3 hits when looking up your name at the one single library that everyone is using.
  - DocTomoe 7y ago
    ... or someone happens to search for any other information in that book.
- Grumbledour 7y ago
  Pretty much this. In addition to that, the responsibility to decide what should be taken down/delisted is also moved from the publisher/courts of law to the indexer, so there is no due process.
donatj 7y ago
I don’t think people should be able to cover up the truth. That’s rotten. If there are lies about you, that’s covered by slander law. Not letting others know things that are true that reflect poorly on you is though is a different story. Take for instance the since-freed murderers who have used the law to hide their past actions. I don’t think that is something you should have the right to ask the world to forget.
- krastanov 7y ago
  I might be missing the forest for the trees here, but I strongly dislike your example. In a country with a working justice system, the expectation is that after you are done with your prison sentence you are rehabilitated. Making it more difficult for ex-cons to reenter society only leads to further recidivism. I am aware that the US does not have such a justice system, but for many countries in Northwest Europe this is a reality and this law makes sense there. Basically, I have no problem with only law-enforcement having a record of the past mistakes of reformed people, assuming that 1) law enforcement is actually "serving and protecting" and 2) the justice systems ensures a high fraction of cons are actually reformed.
  - hartator 7y ago
    But I don’t think you should be put in jail for telling the truth. It’s basically what this law is about.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      Truth isn't an absolute defense. If you privately record someone without permission, you don't get to share that just because it's true.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        And in the US, when dealing with private individuals (not the government's ability to collect and use information), the situations where truth isn't an absolute defense are extremely rare. Even the unidirectional right of private recording varies from state to state. This is a fundamental philosophical difference between the US and much of Europe. I'm not sure precisely from where it arises (though I suspect it stems from a combination of the US government tracing its historical roots to Enlightenment-era thinking on personal liberty and the English government having a law against sedition; the American colonies organizing a rebellion in spite of that law).

nocturnial 7y ago

>This law is really terrible, but maybe decisions like this will help abolish it. After all, if one can find the information with a VPN, it becomes less useful to enforce this law Should we really only enact laws when they can be enforced worldwide?

__david__ 7y ago
With regard to the internet? I wouldn't say "no" as a blanket statement, but what's the point of a law if it's super trivial to legally sidestep?
- nocturnial 7y ago
  How does an EU person or company trivially and legally sidestep this? There's the trivial solution of hosting it on a server outside of the EU but I doubt it's legal if the entity is still in the EU. There's the legal solution of moving outside of the EU and assuming another nationality but for most persons that's not trivial.
  - repolfx 7y ago
    VPN.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago

Why is the law terrible?