14 ms·

I'm honestly the biggest Apple fanboy — I have all the newest gadgets and I use literally every one of their products, and have been for the past several years.

• jagira 7y ago
  > IMO the 2015 MacBook Pro is the best Mac out there, mainly because of its beautiful retina display, perfect weight, and most importantly, a good keyboard. Yep. 2015 Macbook Pro is the last best mac. Probably this is why refurbished 2015 MBP commands premium over other models.
  • agumonkey 7y ago
    Pardon the wild analogy but I think it says something about this era. Star Wars 7 and 8 were already sold cheaper than the original movies on Youtube movies. Why so much "new" is actually worse these days..
    • colechristensen 7y ago
      It's part of getting older. Not many things quit at their peak. You tend to notice less things which were past their peak when you were growing up and remember things which peaked while you were around. It might have something to do with why people get more conservative as they get older. There's a bias towards thinking things were better before than they are now when people just don't remember the crap from when they were younger and things actually are pretty much the same (or really are generally getting better by most metrics)
      • agumonkey 7y ago
        Nono it's not my tastes. I'm speaking about youtube pricing. Even they realize that new sequels don't hold much value, even though to most of their audience (new generations using youtube often) has no reference to favor the past movies from the new.
        • deleted 7y ago
          [deleted]
        • colechristensen 7y ago
          Oh I meant it in a different way, maybe I could rephrase: You have a tendency to notice things getting worse that you personally experience. When you're younger you have had less time to experience something you care about declining than when you're older which leads to a cognitive bias where it seems that things were generally better when you were young. However old you are, there were plenty of things in decline when you were young that you just didn't notice or care about because you never experienced them at their best and are much less likely to experience them. So many people have experienced Star Wars because it's super culturally relevant, but slide down that scale and there will be tons of things your parents saw the decline of that you might not even know existed.
    • nnq 7y ago
      > Why so much "new" is actually worse these days.. New stuff in general is not worse. New versions of old things quite often are! So upgrade your taste and try new things instead of newer versions of the old things you know you like, because with these you're very likely to be disappointed. In this context maybe the answer would be to try something else than a macbook. Tbh, and iPad pro capable of running Xcode and docker would rock for me.
      • unicornfinder 7y ago
        Indeed. I have an iPad Pro that admittedly doesn't see much use because I'm very much tied to my MacBook, but having played with iPadOS I'm blown away by it and I had a very sudden realisation of "So this is where Apple's development efforts have gone!". I can't wait until the day where I can genuinely do some development on an iPad.
    • bryanlarsen 7y ago
      Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap. 90% of movies from 1977 were crap, but we only remember the ones that weren't, like the original Star Wars. Comparing all movies of today to the best movies of the past is unfair.
      • agumonkey 7y ago
        It's not really the same here. Both SW trilogies made rounds of moneys worldwide (ep 7 is in the top 10 I think). But the latest movies, which are brand new, and were somehow successful are already deprecated. It's like processed food, taste doesn't last.
        • rm_-rf_slash 7y ago
          I think they discount the newest movies so they can get as many people to watch them as they can in order to sell them related merchandise. It is Disney Star Wars after all.
          • agumonkey 7y ago
            honestly I don't buy it (sic) even with plausible disney merch. strategy, to me it's a clear and sad sign of some issue in entertainment production
          • FrojoS 7y ago
            Most merchandise I've seen in stores (e.g. LEGO) is from the old trilogy, though.
    • Metus 7y ago
      Regression to the mean may be part of it. Even for a master of their craft success and quality will depend on random factors beyond skill, so pieces of work following a great one are more likely to be worse than better, assuming skill remains constant.
  • gcatalfamo 7y ago
    I wonder if people at apple know this and what they think on the matter.
    • abacadaba 7y ago
      :waits patiently for input from throw_away6747357: c'mon we won't tell
  • amatecha 7y ago
    That's funny, because I call the Late 2013 MBP the last best one :) Among other things, it was the last one to feature a physical trackpad click, as opposed to the fake "taptic engine" all-glass trackpad of the 2014 and newer which doesn't physically move when you click (similar to newer iPhones).
    • Mistri 7y ago
      I honestly thought I wouldn't like the fake clicking, but I ended up liking it after I used it for a day!
      • jonplackett 7y ago
        I can never sent to click and drag successfully with the new track pad. Plus it is needlessly big
    • dsego 7y ago
      The haptic trackpad works beautifully imo, you can click anywhere, there is force click, the clicky sound can be turned on or off, the feedback can be adjusted. And to me it feels real.
    • jakobegger 7y ago
      To be honest, I actually prefer the fake click of the new trackpads. It feels very real, it's not at all comparable to the taptic feedback on the buttonless iPhones. The fake click feels so real that people don't even realise it's a fake click if you don't tell them. The mechanical trackpads only allowed clicking in the bottom half (since it was a hinge), and in my experience it was unreliable. After a few years, clicks started registering twice, or not at all, etc. The fake click track pad allows clicking everywhere, it lets you configure activation force, and for me it has been working flawlessly every day for years.
      • Ensorceled 7y ago
        My trackpad stopped clicking one morning and I was worried that maybe battery expansion was keeping it from being pressed down. Then I finally remembered it was haptic feedback and a reboot fixed it. I had completely forgotten it was not a real click.
  • bredren 7y ago
    I actually think it was the fully loaded 11” 2015 MBA. But. Regardless, they don’t make em like they used to.
• tasogare 7y ago
  Exactly why I bought a 2015 model when its successor was announced. I hope Apple will release a new decent model before mine become obsolete otherwise I’ll have to find a non-mac PC again. Also price increases make it harder and harder to justify buying a MBP.
  • throw_away 7y ago
    They should make a retro 5 year anniversary mbp like thinkpad 25: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-series/ThinkPad-25/p/22TP2TTTP25 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-t-ser...
• portal_narlish 7y ago
  Agree. But is it just programmers that don't care about the thinness of their keyboards and want something functional and high performing? It perplexes me why non-programmer consumers wouldn't want the same. Who is Apple aiming at?
  • agumonkey 7y ago
    Apple used to be about a certain quality. Not just appealing to impatient masses. A good keyboard matters. Ports too. It seems they just lost some good sense.
    • kbenson 7y ago
      Apple no longer competes on the same metrics as they used to. It used to be about functionality and quality, but they've become a status symbol (mostly in the ohines, but I think it carries over in the brand), and thus they don't have to face as much market pressure as other companies in the same space that other companies do to make sure they don't have problems. Is it really any wonder that as Apple products become more and more of a status symbol we see quality slip, not entirely, but just enough that they can keep their status but increase their margins? I would argue it's what we should expect given their situation (even if it sucks).
      • askafriend 7y ago
        I'm a developer (I've worked on products many here use). I prefer thinner and lighter pro laptops. It has nothing to do with status. People use these things around town in coffee shops, take them around campus, travel the world with them, etc. Every pound in my backpack matters to me. Weight matters to me. Thinness matters to me. It's the difference between me deciding to bring my laptop and completely leaving it behind. Same philosophy with my camera gear. I never got into the DSLR game because they were simply too heavy and bulky. I much prefer mirrorless cameras and I'm fine with the tradeoffs that come with them because I actually take my mirrorless camera around with me. You don't have to agree with me, but I'm a huge fan of thin and light devices.
• rayiner 7y ago
  I disagree. The 15" MBP is still pretty heavy and big to carry around. At half the thickness, and say 2/3 the weight, it would be a much more reasonable daily driver.
  • jayd16 7y ago
    But its not a daily driver. Its a pro.
  • LIV2 7y ago
    If you prefer a computer with a non-functional keyboard buy an iPad
  • katbyte 7y ago
    And i disagree with you? What you consider big and heavy i consider basically feather weight. Its light, has a great keyboard, decent battery and all the ports. it's perfect. i don't want it any lighter tbh. Maybe there should be a 15" MBP lite that is just that?
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  • ghaff 7y ago
    I have one and it’s great for daily use. I’d really like an upgraded 12” MacBook for traveling though. I mostly use a very old ChromeBook but there’s no real replacement for that available. To me it seems an oddly missing niche. A lot of people spend a lot of time on planes, don’t need much of a laptop, and often don’t much care for tablets as laptop replacements. Nothing really on the market for them.
  • _ph_ 7y ago
    While thin and light is nice for carrying the laptop around, you still want a laptop which offers everything you need to do your work. And the late 2015 MB Pro seems to be the smallest, which hasn't made painful sacrifices. It offers a reliable keyboard and a wide selection of ports. Having at least one HDMI port is very convenient. It also has a large battery. The only thing missing, and I would sacrifice further thinness for it, would be easier exchangeable battery and ssd storage.
• LIV2 7y ago
  > IMO the 2015 MacBook Pro is the best Mac out there, mainly because of its beautiful retina display, perfect weight, and most importantly, a good keyboard. Yep, I have a Late 2013 Retina still going strong, the only thing is I've had to replace the battery a couple of times which is a pain in the ass but it was used as my daily work machine for half of its life and still going strong. My old work laptop was one of the more recent MacBook models and I never got used to the keyboard or having to use dongles for everything.
  • 52-6F-62 7y ago
    Can confirm. My late 2013 13” MBP is still kicking. The SD card slot failed but otherwise it’s fine. I got it refurbished originally and haven’t had to change a thing. At work I have a 2015 15” and imagine that’s the route I’ll go to replace my personal machine soon enough...
• doomlaser 7y ago
  Hopefully, they've turned a corner on that philosophy. The new iPhone 11 Pro is slightly thicker than last year's model, to make room for a bigger battery and other components. Perhaps they can apply this change of priorities to the MacBook Pro line. As well, Jony Ive is gone, off to start his own independent design consultancy — a fine time to break the focus on 'thinner at all costs'. My wish would be to see a return to a nice keyboard that feels good to type on, an option to omit the Touch Bar from high end MacBook Pro models, and the option for an Nvidia GPU. Otherwise, my next MacBook Pro will be a decked out 2015 model.
  • dajonker 7y ago
    Jony Ive's new "independent" firm has one big primary client: Apple.
    • doomlaser 7y ago
      John Gruber had thoughts on that in one of his two takes on the issue so far > This angle that he’s still going to work with Apple as an independent design firm seems like pure spin. You’re either at Apple or you’re not. Ive is out. But also, > Apple’s hardware and industrial design teams work so far out that, even if I’m right and Ive is now effectively out of Apple, we’ll still be seeing Ive-designed hardware 5 years from now. It is going to take a long time to evaluate his absence. I didn't watch the full September iPhone keynote, but from what I saw there was a noticeable lack of Jony Ive voiceover in the featured iPhone product videos. I may have just missed it, though? In the Jobs era, Apple would sometimes make drastic hardware changes very close to the release of new hardware. It's possible that the criticism of the keyboards from so many corners (WSJ, famously [3]) may have shifted their plans. [1] https://daringfireball.net/2019/06/jony_ive_leaves_apple https://daringfireball.net/2019/06/jony_ive_leaves_apple [2] https://daringfireball.net/2019/07/on_the_post-ive_future_of_design_at_apple https://daringfireball.net/2019/07/on_the_post-ive_future_of... [3] https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac...
  • iaml 7y ago
    iPhones have been getting thicker/weightier every year since 6, with the exception in 7.
• Yhippa 7y ago
  The LG gram series of laptops convinced me MBPs could definitely be thinner and lighter.
  • nnq 7y ago
    Lighter - SURE! Thinner - who cares?! Between current thickness and 2x-ing it it would be just as ergonomic...
  • InvaderFizz 7y ago
    The 2018 LG Gram 15 is great on weight, but man does it feel like cheap plastic with a lot of give. Also, cramming a number pad into the keyboard seems like a poor trade off.
• Nursie 7y ago
  I hold the opposite view - Thinner and lighter is good, not just for looks, it saves my bag space and weight on my shoulder. And ports that are not used, most of the time by most users are a waste. With Thunderbolt and usb-c the laptop doesn't need them any more, so long as there's enough bandwidth they can stay on the desk. But I'm with you on it needing a functional, decent keyboard. That shouldn't be sacrificed.
  • BostonEnginerd 7y ago
    I just want to connect to a projector without a damn dongle. I’m not asking for a parallel port, or even a serial port. I can even live without Ethernet. But - just about every office worker routinely has to connect to projectors and TVs. There is a wireless standard for displays, but Macs and PCs seem to be incompatible.
    • Nursie 7y ago
      I haven't come across the wireless standard yet. But I would ask - what sort of projector? Because some of the meeting rooms here still have VGA connectors, we have others that use HDMI, screens in our collab area that have mini-displayport, I'm pretty sure there's a DVI-only projector hanging around somewhere too... Do you want all these ports on your laptop? I'm loving the (seeming) convergence of display-port-over-thunderbolt using USB-C connectors. Though unfortunately it also seems that not every device and every display are happy talking over that so maybe it's no panacea either.
• innocentoldguy 7y ago
  I’ve really enjoyed my 2017 and 2019 MacBook Pros (and the MacBook I bought for traveling). I know some people have had issues with the keyboards, but I haven’t. I like the minimal amount of travel they have because typing on them is easier on my aging fingers. I don’t ever use the Esc key, since I use Karabiner to remap my Esc and CTRL keys to the Caps Lock key and my parenthesis to the Shift keys, so the Touch Bar doesn’t upset me at all. For me, the 2019 MacBook Pro is the best one.
• js2 7y ago
  Also, user upgradeable SSD and (somewhat) replaceable battery.
  • asdff 7y ago
    Pipe fucking dream now. There was a time when apple let you change a battery with zero tools and a hard drive with 4 screws through the same port of entry. RAM upgrade was another half dozen screws. It's pretty telling that apple is only concerned about milking every dollar out of you when phones start at 64gb, laptops are sold with 8gb of RAM, and getting 1tb of storage on your laptop requires another thousand dollars. Apple either rips you off on the upgrade or forces you into their cloud service, where you are at the mercy of our good friendly and ever reliable ISP cartels to access your files.
• rndgermandude 7y ago
  I also use my 2015 and refuse to upgrade. And use it a lot; lot of the letters on my keyboard are long gone. But the keyboard keeps working, which is a major plus compared to the newer models. If only the MagSafe 2 wasn't such bad design... It could be a little lighter, but I carry it around in a backpack so I don't mind, and it's still not too heavy to balance on my belly if needed to, so I don't mind either. Thinner? I also had an Air, and while it was a pleasure to carry around, I never liked the feel. It was too thin for my taste already.
  • Nextgrid 7y ago
    Why do you think MagSafe is a bad design? I miss it on my latest MacBook.
    • wffurr 7y ago
      MagSafe 1 had the cable at a right angle instead of sticking straight out. Much easier to use the laptop with the power plugged in.
      • AlanYx 7y ago
        There were two different designs for MagSafe 1... the design used on the 2008 Macbook and 2008 unibody Macbook Pro had a plastic rectangular end that jutted straight out. The design used on the early Macbook Air is like you describe, with a right angle and an aluminum body. Both designs work with the Magsafe 1 to Magsafe 2 adapter.
      • floatboth 7y ago
        Many USB-C magnet thingies also have that design
      • hombre_fatal 7y ago
        On the other hand, the later magsafe cable was finally the design that seemed to work the best in more chaotic environments like at a cafe where someone can kick the cable. People complain about how it falls out "all the time", but to me that suggests that it's doing its job. Meanwhile one of my two usb-c ports on my 2017 MBP is already damaged from normal wear (jiggling a cable will challenge the connection), probably from the times the port took the whole load of a pulled cable. Magsafe did the right thing of sparing the port. Though as Apple macbooks become lighter and lighter, we increasingly deal with the ridiculous failcase where a pulled cable can launch the entire laptop off the table. I feel like magsafe is even more necessary now than ever before.
• _hardwaregeek 7y ago
  While I understand the reticence towards thinness, I'm going to withhold judgment until I'm holding the new laptop. Thinness isn't just about aesthetic (although that is an aspect that HN commenters severely underestimate). It's also about the act of physically using the device. I know that going from a 2015 Macbook Pro to a 2017 one made a gigantic difference in how I used the device. The 2015 one I had to decide if I wanted to put in my backpack. It added a non significant weight to my bag and therefore my back. I wouldn't open it while standing or outside, simply because it wasn't comfortable to hold in one hand, or to type in a password. The 2017 Macbook Pro, while flawed in many ways, is very different. I carry it everywhere without a thought. I can easily carry it open in one hand or closed like a book. I can pop it open for a second, type some stuff in while holding it, then put it back (TouchID is great for this too). This may sound like Ive-esque purple prose, but truly, a lighter laptop lowers the barriers between the physical object and what I want to accomplish. I don't have to think about the physical weight of the laptop. I can just bring it. I don't have to think about putting the laptop down and using it. I can just palm it.
  • krasin 7y ago
    I agree with your point, but I also agree with the parent comment. Thinner != lighter. It's totally legit to have a not-so-thin laptop that gets lighter every year, but preserves the most important ports.
  • doomlaser 7y ago
    As a counterpoint, I was issued the maxed out 2018 model for work, and I do not like the design. I only used it on a laptop stand, plugged into big external monitors, and with an external keyboard and mouse. Not having a tactile escape key is a poor decision, as is the choice to ditch the inverted-T cursor keys, just to make the keyboard look more symmetrical. Both seem like steps backwards in usability — both being harder to navigate by feel. 2018: http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/macbook-pro-touch-bar-everything-8.png http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/macboo... Prior: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/9136/MBA_Keyboard_575px.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/9136/MBA_Keyboard_575px.jp...
• snuxoll 7y ago
  I love my 2015 15” MBP, but I do have to say the smaller size and weight of my new 2019 that work provided is certainly easier to carry in my bag. I don’t think it’s a great trade off for not being able to upgrade the RAM or SSD plus the less than stellar keyboard, but I didn’t have to pay for it so meh.
• cal97g 7y ago
  the 2015 Macbook Pro is the best made so far for me. Right mix of ports, good weight, good keyboard and I feel like the aesthetic is actually superior to later models. Have a work 2019 macbook pro and don't really like it.
• aptwebapps 7y ago
  Thin laptops are like big screens on phones and cheap airline seats. Lots of people say those aren't the most important criteria, but the tyranny of the majority says otherwise. As far as this particular tech goes, the frailty of the butterfly keyboard is only half the problem for me. The other half is the lack of travel itself! I'm going to hang on to this 2015 model until it completely dies and then go find something else if what's on offer from Apple feels like typing on a sheet of tin foil on a kitchen counter.
• rorykoehler 7y ago
  It's a measurable metric which they can through advanced engineering at. Even if they fail once in a while like they did with the last gen (I bought a 2013 mbp instead) I think it's a net positive that they try at all.
• ratsimihah 7y ago
  > IMO the 2015 MacBook Pro is the best Mac out there, mainly because of its beautiful retina display, perfect weight, and most importantly, a good keyboard. What about integrated USB and display ports that don't require external adapters? Isn't that the dream? o_o
  • mLuby 7y ago
    2019 [reality]: peripherals use USB, USB-C, HDMI, 3.5mm audio. - Apple: you get USB-C and a bucketful of dongles. - Others: we'll make machines with all those ports. 2024 [the dream is realized]: peripherals use USB-C exclusively. - Apple: We were right about USB-C. To congratulate ourselves, let's introduce USB-NeXT (incompatible with USB-C). - Others: Your old machines still work. New machines just have USB-C. 2024 [darkest timeline]: peripherals never converge on USB-C. - Apple: USB-C isn't converging. Let's introduce USB-NeXT (incompatible with USB-C). - Others: Your old machines still work. We'll continue making machines with all those ports.
• switch007 7y ago
  My 2015 has taken some serious abuse such as falls on hard floors and impact with a wall. The MBP came off better every time. This will of course curse it, but everything still works perfectly (only the rubber feet have fallen off). It runs the latest OS fine. It was the first Apple product I bought but I can't see myself buying another MBP. They've signalled and demonstrated over and over I'm not in their target market.
• thelittleone 7y ago
  I'm of the same view where I don't desire thinner also. I preferred the form of the pre-touchbar model MBP to my current 2017 MBP. But from a competitive perspective, thinness is a barrier to competition as it requires substantial engineering investment. Few can invest in the materials and process like Apple. In lieu of other differentiators, thinnest and lightest is at least something for marketing. On the flip side, the maniacal focus on thinness led to the disastrous butterfly keyboard and associated replacement program.
• kar1181 7y ago
  I'm done. I'm still on my 2015 MBP, my next computer will be a Thinkpad.
  • Crontab 7y ago
    I would consider a Thinkpad if Lenovo gave us the option of buying it without the nipple - which I feel is an awful pointing device (sorry, people who love it).
    • wffurr 7y ago
      You know it has a track pad too right? And you can use a mouse and some of them even have touch screens.
      • Crontab 7y ago
        Yes, I know, but I don't want a pointing device that is intermingled with my keyboard.
        • wffurr 7y ago
          It can't be the only thing holding you back. You can just not use it if you don't like it. Just seems like a weird complaint about otherwise excellent laptops. I have an X1 Yoga and it's pretty good. A little awkward as a tablet, but I rarely use it that way, just as I rarely use the trackpoint.
  • plogik 7y ago
    I sold my MBPro 2016 and got back to the early 2015 version. Also, i own Lenovo X1 Yoga (with touch display). So i have two laptops that i really love to use. If apple keeps producing crap the Lenovo way will probably be my way also. For now the MBpro 2015 is my work horse though
  • criddell 7y ago
    You don't use any Apple-only software? The hardware I buy has always been determined by the software I need.
• xmodem 7y ago
  I'm currently travelling and need to carry both a work and personal laptop with me. I realise this is a bit of an edge case, but at this point i'll take every gram I can get.
• ownagefool 7y ago
  I'm up for thinning components if it doesn't make the experience worse, but I rather like my late 2013 MBP and I'd rather they fill the space with battery. To be fair though, I'm not that bothered about macos and ran linux on it for several years. I bought it because of the screen, typing and the trackpad, and since the MBP is well into compromise land, I might buy a matebook x pro.
• ksec 7y ago
  >The MacBook doesn't need less ports, it doesn't need to be thinner. I think this needs further explanation, because I do think people want less port and thinner. Just not at the inconvenience of it. Example, had there been a Wireless Standard that allow direct transfer of 5Gbps+ Real World speed, energy efficient, widely available etc. I dont need more ports. I need one for power / Display and that is it. I would love the MacBook to be thinner, but not at the expense of having only 7W cTDP CPU and zero-travel keyboard. ( And I know we are approaching the limit of physics ) And I wanted to point out, when the current MacBook generation were designed, Apple were looking at Roadmaps of upcoming tech. That is 802.11ad 60Ghz and its successor 802.11ay with 80Gbps direct transfer, 802.11ax with 3.2Gbps and more. Intel 10nm that is suppose to be Super Power efficient, and its 7nm that superseded it. All of these were suppose to come in 2016 / 2017. And if there were delays, may be 2018. But none of them did, we are closing in to 2020 and we are just starting to see WiFi 6 coming out. And judging from Intel's extremely conservative statement 10nm won't be in high volume any time soon either. So Apple designed their product with future iteration in mind for the next 4 years and none of that went according to plan. On one hand I blame them for not reacting, like their Keyboard they simply refuse to admit there is a problem until a Journalist herself had the same problem described and decide to write a piece on it that went viral. On the other hand I believe everyone were blindsided, the WiFi 6 tech has been on trade show since 2017, and it keep getting delayed, Intel kept thinking their 10nm will come. And most Keyboard problems dont actually went to Apple Store for repair because we cant afford to have 3 days without our laptop. And Apple thought the stats were fine.
• amelius 7y ago
  The focus on thinness is going to make macbooks converge to ipads.
• tobr 7y ago
  > However, this is one thing that upsets me. The MacBook doesn't need less ports, it doesn't need to be thinner. The article is based on a patent filed half a year before the current butterfly keyboards were introduced. There's absolutely no reason to assume that this is exactly what the next iteration of the mac laptop keyboards will be like.
• varjag 7y ago
  What a coincidence that the optimal laptop dimensions match the model you happen to own! :)
• mkhalil 7y ago
  This sounds a lot like "nobody will ever need more than 640k of ram" quote attributed to - but denied by - Billy Gates. "The MacBook doesn't need to be thinner": The MacBook doesn't need to exist either, but I think as technology improves and things are lighter and more power efficient, the smaller the footprint will be (size and weight). I can see the argument against a decision to shrink it down 0.001m - which is only a 6% reduction in thickness (0.001/0.0149), but if it was a 0.49m reduction, bringing it down to a thickness of 1cm, would you still hold that same opinion? Taking this to levels of science fiction - I would love a laptop so thin you can fold it like a piece of paper and place it in your pocket. I don't need any ports if all my data is always available in some "cloud" that my laptop has free and instant access to. So thin and cheap, if I dirty it I can crumble it, toss it in recycle, and just rip open a brand new one.
  • Ensorceled 7y ago
    If you, in your head, read "The MacBook doesn't need to be thinner" as "The MacBook doesn't need to be thinner for ME" you'll realize your entire comment makes no sense.
  • emilecantin 7y ago
    I kinda get your argument, but I look at my 2015 MBP, and I don't really wish it was thinner. I wish it'd had upgradable RAM and better battery life, and right now I especially appreciate that it has a replaceable SSD because it just gave out. These are all things I care about that are being sacrificed by Apple to improve one aspect I don't care about (thickness). I'm definitely not the only one who's thinking that, as evidenced by the comment threads here.
    • mkhalil 7y ago
      I appreciate you not getting on me for being "stuck on words". On your opinion on RAM - I disagree. I feel like the way memory modules are psychically, they would probably be detrimental enough (thickness, keyboard, battery, maybe eventual water resistance) that it would out weight the benefits. Besides, you can get enough RAM when you buy the notebook that the amount you get will be good enough far past the date of the CPU being good enough. On SSD though, I agree. I think with M.2, now with Gen 4 M.2 (and SFF NVMe?), Apple could and should of went to the lengths of allowing that. Even at this thinness, there is not great excuse why not. Besides, its STORAGE. It goes bad, people want to back it up, extract it, recover it, etc. Apple should not have to replace the whole logic board for that.
• userbinator 7y ago
  I'm not at all an Apple fan but have certainly handled and used Apple hardware lots of times, and every time I need to pick up or otherwise handle a MacBook, it feels very weird and uncomfortable. They look nice, but the thinness and sharp edges combined with smooth metal both makes me scared that my hands will slip, yet the sharpness provokes a natural aversion to holding it firmly. I have a metal-bodied Thinkpad but it doesn't feel as uncomfortable to hold. I wonder if anyone else has this experience.
  • jonfw 7y ago
    What's funny is that 10-15 years ago, apple was making the most approachable, softest computers in the game. My brother's old 2007 macbook is sitting nearby right now, and it's in all white with the rounded corners and it feels really nice to touch and use, and you don't feel like you need to take special care of it to protect the finish. Apple takes the aesthetic far too seriously now, they're no longer concerned with approachability and usability. They're not really in the running for "what computer to give grandma" anymore.
• efa 7y ago
  Yeah, I don't get the thin obsession. It doesn't provide improved function (or decreases functionality). It's really just a vanity thing for Apple.
• ookblah 7y ago
  I could do without thinness but if they is a way to make it lighter I'm all for it.
• naravara 7y ago
  >The MacBook doesn't need less ports, it doesn't need to be thinner. This is especially true now that they're trying to position the iPad as a serious "work" machine. If it hasn't crossed this threshold already it will soon where the only reason one would need a small MacBook is because the interoperability of ports and a solid keyboard/mouse navigation process is important to your workflow. Let the iPad handle use cases where those aren't important and let the Mac be the heavy-duty machine. Jobs had a good quote back in the day about how not everyone wants or needs a computer equivalent of a pick-up truck and most computer vendors tend to assume they do. Apple is leaning towards the opposite problem where they're assuming everyone wants the equivalent of a sports car, which is just as bad. Let the iPad be the Miata and let the Mac Pro be an F-250. But some of us in the middle just want a nice Camry (or the BMW/Audi/Mercedes equivalent) and they're doing a poor job of understanding what that means.
• turtlebits 7y ago
  We don't "need" to improve the form factor for anything, everything is fine as is. That said, theres nothing wrong with trying to make progress. Sometimes there are hiccups (the 2016+ keyboards). I certainly appreciate the thinner form factor of my 2018 model (I don't mind the keyboard). I do see room in improvement for making them thinner, as my absolutely favorite portable is the Pixelbook (sans giant bezel), which is quite a bit thinner (0.4" vs 0.61") and still has the 2015 style keyboard.
• m463 7y ago
  I think the first generation macbook pro was the best for the keyboard - it was a wonderful keyboard with scuplted keys that fit your fingers. Additionally your fingers could easily detect the edges of the keys and self center because of the concave keycap shape. It also had a variety of ports. The only downside was the machined aluminum case of subsequent models was rock solid.