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Apple is evaluating new keyboard mechanisms to make thinner MacBooks
- chasing 7y agoDear Sweet Baby Jesus I want a thicker MacBook Pro that WORKS. I literally do not care about millimeter or two. I care very seriously about a quality keyboard I can type on. My 2016 MBP is the worst Mac I’ve owned, and my first Mac was bought in 1989. And I don’t feel like I can upgrade because I’m unwilling to pay for more of the same crappy design. It’s embarrassing.
- philliphaydon 7y agoApple making thin laptops was great, it moved us away from these giant thick things we had for so long. But this obsession with thinness is crazy now. They are chasing tooo thin. I used to love my old Macbook Pro Retina, great keyboard, great laptop. I'm on Lenovo's team now, it's keyboard is superior in everyway. I do miss the trackpad but I use the keyboard 99% of the time, and I like the nipple.
- arnonejoe 7y agoPlease no. I want the 2015 or earlier MBP keyboard back.
- iamgopal 7y agoAcoustic keyboard would not only be water proof but also provide whatever layout one wants. I hope they do that.
- liability 7y agoYou don't need to get fancy to make a laptop keyboard that tanks an errant glass of beer poured into it. Thinkpads have had this figured out for years. I accidentally put it to the test once and the result was a very sticky but perfectly functional laptop. Took about an hour with a screwdriver set and some rubbing alcohol on q-tips to make it good as new. I shudder to think what a glass of beer would do to my MBA.
- ars 7y agoThis is 100% the opposite of what I actually want. I want a thicker laptop, and even more important: greater key travel.
- melling 7y agoWhat’s the ergonomics for a thin keyboard? Must have a very short key travel distance causing one to bottom out on every keystroke.
- kps 7y agoI could only find the first edition online sans $$$, but ISO 9241-4 Keyboard Requirements said “The key displacement shall be between 1.5 mm and 6.0 mm. The preferred key displacement should be between 2.0 mm and 6.0 mm.”
- crb002 7y agoThey need to bring back the 2013 Mac Pro with upgraded silicon. The thing is a beast in a good tradeoff between portability and power.
- Anarch157a 7y agoI don't understand Apple's obsession with thin devices. What's the point in making something so thin that it detracts from their primary function ? Ipad Pros that bend, Macs with problematic keyboards and overheating... Please, stop. Make things functional first, thin if possible, not the other way around.
- brookside 7y agoCredit due, newer generations of iPhones have been successively thicker with increased battery capacity.
- magashna 7y agoHow thin does it have to get before everyone says "this feels shitty"? I have a few mechanical keyboards at home and at work and I can't imagine always having to use one of these new keyboards with zero throw. It makes me feel like I'm mimicking typing rather than actually doing it.
- ccday 7y agoI think we’re at that point judging by the reaction to Apple’s latest generation of keyboards and their (rumored) upcoming change.
- ctdonath 7y agoMaybe their goal is to eliminate mechanical keyboards, replaced with nothing more than textured glass. Have to train out an entire generation to get there.
- brokenmachine 7y agoIt's already shitty. Apple users will claim that mimicking typing is the new cool thing, feeling keypresses is for losers.
- CoolGuySteve 7y agoI would not be surprised if Apple releases a solid state keyboard with chiseled glass keys, haptic feedback for key presses, and an oled screen underneath. It seems like the conclusion to their “Taptic” engine, touchbar, and pressure sensitive touchscreens R&D.
- bsder 7y agoEven if it felt like garbage, that would at least be reliable ...
- kalleboo 7y agoI really like the feel of the new ultra-thin, low-throw keyboards. I don't like their poor reliability.
- 7y ago
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoNo. FFS stop it. I am a huge fan of thin and small laptops, even at the expense of things like connectivity. However, 90% of what I do with a laptop is type. If there's no key travel, I can't type.
- chapium 7y agoI switched to a budget lenovo ideapad because i needed a windows machine. It turns out its way more comfortable to use than my mac and i keep coming back to it.
- fyfy18 7y agoJust bear in mind the build quality of Ideapad and other budget Lenovo brands aren't great. The ThinkPad (X, T or P series) really is in a class of its own in terms of build quality, upgradability and repairability.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- chapium 7y agoDo you know the common failure mode for ideapads? Two aspects of the design concerned me. The heat vents on the back are open when the lid is closed (presumably for ventilation while docked), and the power plug is barrel style, which i know handles stress poorly and can break the socket over time. It is cheap, probably for a reason. Performance in the short term is up to par.
- heelix 7y agoI really wish they would move focus back to being more expandable. The way they weld stuff to the mainboard is hot trash. There is no upgrade path for these newer macs. My old 17"? That got a 16G RAM/SSD upgrade with the CD swapped out for a second drive. Added years to its life. I suspect the new 16" version will only have four USB-C port. I got lucky and ended up with a 32G work laptop. I've got enough headroom to run a couple docker containers at the same time. My co-workers stuck with the 16G laptops are really in a tough place. As things stand, I end up stuffing a pile of dongles into my bag as I transition from work to home and back again. It is unfortunate the person who keeps demanding 'thinner' over 'professional' keeps getting listened to. Wish I could find a 16:10 laptop that had expandability.
- opencl 7y agoLG crammed a 17" 16:10 display and 2 NVMe slots + 1 SODIMM slot (with additional 8GB RAM soldered to the motherboard) into a sub-3 pound chassis in the Gram.
- heelix 7y agoOh my god! This is exactly the sort of screen I was looking for.
- Paperweight 7y agoNot so fast :/ LG had to go ruin it with a low-resolution display. (2560x1600 vs. the 15" MacBook Pro's 2880x1800)
- heelix 7y agoThat video card is painful too. I'd be happy enough with 2560x1600@17" as it would be a Linux box... I think. I'll have to take a look at one and see how it feels.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jdlyga 7y agoLook at the Dell XPS 13. It has a really good keyboard, and it's very thin. It's not that hard.
- mattbreeden 7y agoThe XPS 13 is the worst keyboard I've ever used. It brings me great physical pain to type on it. I had to quit using it as a laptop and exclusively use it with an external keyboard because the finger pain was so great. I know many people (like yourself) don't feel that way, but it was absolutely not acceptable for me. Thanks to the XPS when I picked out my new laptop keyboard quality/travel was my #1 requirement by a tremendous margin.
- EugeneOZ 7y agoI had a chance to test keyboard on XPS 15 (2019) and it was a very good keyboard.
- adrr 7y agoDoes anyone want a thinner computer? The I9s have thermal issues, the butterfly keyboard break in 12 months. Why don’t they focus on real innovation like adding faceId or Oled HDR screens. Apple is going to spite us all and replace the keyboard with an oled magic bar.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoI mean, if I could have a magical fairy computer that was as thin as a piece of paper but had the keyboard of a 2015 MBP, and decent performance and battery life, yeah, I'd think that was pretty great. What I'm not willing to do is make any drastic usability sacrifices in exchange for more thinness.
- liability 7y agoThat fairy would need to use some seriously arcane magic to make such a device not bend and tear like paper too. Although I don't think that would bother Apple much at this point.
- travbrack 7y agoThe Macbook Wheel comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA
- nottorp 7y ago> the butterfly keyboard break in 12 months. Started in 3-4 months for me...
- goombastic 7y agoI think Apple's primary demographic now is people sitting in Starbucks.
- liability 7y agoEvidently not people typing in Starbucks..
- uptown 7y agoThey want the keyboard to be a touchscreen.
- barberousse 7y agoHabituating your user base on the way there is just something MS could never pull off, too, the flip is the start menu never going away until all the baby boomers are gone
- gridlockd 7y agoNo, you don't.
- naikrovek 7y agoAre people really demanding thinner laptops? Who is demanding that a laptop or phone be thinner? MAKE THEM THICKER, I want more battery life and better performance! I am a fat out of shape need and I can carry 40lbs on my back, no sweat. MAKE THEM THICKER.
- megaremote 7y agoI am. As a developer who travels, I want a thinner lighter laptop. I loved the macbook, I want that upgraded.
- dpcan 7y agoLol, I totally agree, why not offer the thick super-long-lasting battery version?!?!? Let the skinny-jeans kids get their skinny phones and have to charge everywhere, but I'm fine with a brick in my pocket if the battery can go for a couple days.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jseliger 7y agoAre people really demanding thinner laptops? Who is demanding that a laptop or phone be thinner? Yes. Anyone who carries them around demands thinner, where possible. I could have bought a MBP and am typing this on a MBA. The latter has various advantages but the latter is fast enough and also lighter. PG uses (used?) 11" MBAs. https://twitter.com/paulg/status/740739637572997120?lang=en https://twitter.com/paulg/status/740739637572997120?lang=en
- garmaine 7y agoI carry my laptop everywhere, and whenever there is a trade-off I demand performance and quality over thin/light. I use my machine to do work. Better performance makes we work better and faster. It's my bread and butter. Less weight... is a slight convenience while commuting, I guess?
- mths 7y agoMacBook Pro 2025: The entire keyboard/touchpad area is now a screen with configurable controls. The touchbar was a tease of what's to come. People rejoice over the ability to swipe rather than type out a word.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoHmm. Sounds like an iPad then. So is the plan really: Macbook Pro 2020, newest even thinner than butterfly keyboard. iPad Pro keyboard cover now the most travel, best typing keyboard among Apple portables. 2022: iPad OS on iPad Pro now the professional portable, MBP discontinued.
- graphGL 7y agoWhat’s a computer?
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoIf Apple truly wanted to kill the Macbook line, they wouldn't do it by spending millions of dollars over several years purposefully producing crappy products they don't believe in. They'd just announce they were killing the Macbook line. That hasn't happened, so presumably, Apples believe that laptops fill a niche which tablets don't. Well, what is that niche? The primary difference between a tablet and laptop is that the latter has a keyboard. If you're buying a laptop instead of a tablet, you probably want a good keyboard!
- abledon 7y ago"Users can unlock their computers with their signature ASMR sound."
- glandium 7y agoLike the Lenovo Yoga Book?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kyriakos 7y ago
- L0stLink 7y agoLinux has gotten to the point that it is no longer necessary to look at MacOS for a stable Unix environment. I don't need much from a laptop just decent keyboard, performance, battery life and for it to not thermal throttle, but unfortunately this seems to be incompatible with Apple's vision of the perfect MacBook. If this is the direction Apple is taking I cannot see myself buying a MacBook in the foreseeable future.
- chaostheory 7y ago> Linux has gotten to the point that it is no longer necessary to look at MacOS for a stable Unix environment You can add Windows 10 as an option too. WSL2 and Ubuntu is a nice combo. It’s pretty close to native.
- kyriakos 7y agoWSL2 is still not available in a stable release of windows though.
- chaostheory 7y agoWSL is good enough then
- xyzzy_plugh 7y agoWSL is not good enough. I tried it, I really gave it a chance. Breakages across Windows updates, atrocious filesystem performance, broken file permissions, so many rough edges buried deep in the issue tracker. I strongly recommend trying it but, but I can't possibly recommend it for professional use. It's impressive, and from what I recall a small team working on it, who deserve tremendous kudos, but it's no replacement for real Linux.
- tempsolution 7y agoSorry, but Linux hasn't gotten anywhere in a long while. They were trying something that may have worked (Ubuntu + Unity), but this just looks and feels like a toy still. When it comes to GUI and user experience, let's face it, there is a very very TINY market left for Linux. I am a software developer for a very long time and had been running QubesOS as well as most popular distros. Of those QubesOS is the clear winner, since it looks pretty much as sad as any other Linux but at least it gives you something you can't get anywhere else: Security. As much as I hate Windows and MacOS, they just both run circles around Linux when it comes to graphics, GUI design and user experience and that is why they have such a big market share. It's this old delusion of some Linux fanboys that Linux would spread around the globe if the evil Apple and Microsoft would just allow them. There are few people who CAN use it and much fewer still that are willing to use it as a desktop system.
- utopian3 7y agoIt seems Apple no longer asks their customers what they want. They just tell customers they want thinner while the customers groan
- el_dev_hell 7y agoI'm not a fan of their thin-first addiction, but when in the history of Apple have they asked customers what they want? Steve Jobs: "Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do."
- psweber 7y agoWell, sure, but that only works when the leader has a product vision.
- Paperweight 7y agoHe/she has to be a total design nazi to get it implemented, too, or else it will be ruined by the bean counters, "experts", and committees. "Sure, by using a crappy keyboard/display/_______ we only save 89 cents per unit - but multiply that by 100,000 units!" (99% of laptop manufacturers)
- psweber 7y agoIt doesn't seem like that is the problem with Apple's keyboards. It's Tim Cook not knowing the difference between aesthetics and the qualities that give a product an overall "high end design" feel. You know, like, how it is to actually use it. The bean counter issue is causing them to leave out the extender part of the power cord and the basically required USB hub with all the ports that "Pros" need.
- utopian3 7y agoAnd “thinner” has led to multiple device families being easily bent
- mahgnous 7y agoDid they not fuck up the 2016-2019's enough already?
- butterisgood 7y agoNo one cares about thinness... I want a keyboard that either doesn’t break or doesn’t cost me 700 to fix.
- wopwops 7y agoAs someone who gave up on Apple in the late 1990s, I experience schadenfreude when they are having these totally unnecessary issues... Year after year after year after year.
- sg47 7y agoI'm in the process of switching to a 2015 MacBook Air at work because the keyboard on my 2019 MacBook Pro is just unusable. I love the Mac external keyboards. I don't understand why they can't put them in their laptops.
- pier25 7y agoI agree. IMO the Magic keyboard 2 is the best ever made. (Except for the arrow keys)
- hombre_fatal 7y agoI'm so glad I kept my 2013 Air around for when my 2017 Pro became unusable without an external keyboard.
- apple4ever 7y agoNO! That's the wrong way. Go the other way!
- gnicholas 7y agoNote that the patent's Publication Date is listed as November 17, 2016. So we shouldn't read into this that Apple still thinks that they should keep going thinner and thinner. Hopefully they have heard loud and clear that people want a keyboard that has adequate travel, and this tech will therefore never see the light of day. For the record, I have a 2017 MBP and agree with all the anti-butterfly sentiment voiced here.
- Mistri 7y agoI'm honestly the biggest Apple fanboy — I have all the newest gadgets and I use literally every one of their products, and have been for the past several years. However, this is one thing that upsets me. The MacBook doesn't need less ports, it doesn't need to be thinner. I understand the thinning of the MacBook Pro from the 2012 model to the 2015 model (which is what I currently own, and in my opinion is the best Mac). But I definitely don't think it needed to get any thinner or lighter than that, especially if it's sacrificing ports or a good keyboard. IMO the 2015 MacBook Pro is the best Mac out there, mainly because of its beautiful retina display, perfect weight, and most importantly, a good keyboard.
- jagira 7y ago> IMO the 2015 MacBook Pro is the best Mac out there, mainly because of its beautiful retina display, perfect weight, and most importantly, a good keyboard. Yep. 2015 Macbook Pro is the last best mac. Probably this is why refurbished 2015 MBP commands premium over other models.
- agumonkey 7y agoPardon the wild analogy but I think it says something about this era. Star Wars 7 and 8 were already sold cheaper than the original movies on Youtube movies. Why so much "new" is actually worse these days..
- colechristensen 7y agoIt's part of getting older. Not many things quit at their peak. You tend to notice less things which were past their peak when you were growing up and remember things which peaked while you were around. It might have something to do with why people get more conservative as they get older. There's a bias towards thinking things were better before than they are now when people just don't remember the crap from when they were younger and things actually are pretty much the same (or really are generally getting better by most metrics)
- 7y ago
- gridlockd 7y ago"...the keys are positioned much closer to the circuit board, reducing the amount of travel and materials required to register a key press and to actuate." If the goal is to minimize travel, why have any travel at all? Why not just glue on the keys? Why not just paint on the keys?
- garmaine 7y agoWtf why is that a selling point? Thinner keyboards cause physical pain as your fingers strike hard surfaces. NO THANKS!
- matthewhartmans 7y agoIt feels like they are getting people used to the thinner keys to make it more like touching surface. Once people adapt to this, they will most likely swap out the entire physical keyboard with a touch keyboard (the touch bar seems like an incremental step).
- TheKarateKid 7y agoThey need to fix the thermal mess of the current MBPs. The fans spin up all the time LOUD and it sounds horrible. My 2009 MBP was silent unless it was at 100% CPU for minutes with the vents blocked (on the bed).
- puranjay 7y agoIf the fan spins even when the system is idle, you might want to reset the SMC
- TheKarateKid 7y agoNot when idle but a minimal amount of usage spikes, like 10-20% CPU for a minute or so. IMO the fan really shouldn't be spinning up unless the CPU is really under stress for several minutes.
- puranjay 7y agoDo you hear the fan right after you start the laptop? That's usually an indication that you need to reset the SMC. I'd do it anyway. It doesn't affect the system at all and usually takes care of most power and fan issues
- nfoz 7y agoOK folks, I'm with you that I prefer phat juicy travel on my keyboards and don't mind a thick laptop. But guess what, that's not the only target audience for laptops. The Macbook Air and recently-deceased Macbook are awesome because they're stylish and fit in a purse. Let that sink in. There are many use-cases for extremely thin devices that still have dedicated keyboards.
- pdimitar 7y ago“You are not the target audience” is not an universal escape hatch in every Apple discussion. It’s perfectly okay if Apple is targeting users that care more about aesthetics. What’s not okay is that basic functionality is being lost — namely typing reliably and predictably on your keyboard. They went too far and the rumours that the upcoming 16” MacBook will not have the type of keyboard that has been around ever since 2016 support the theory that they realised that their idea sucked and it’s time for putting more reliable keyboards in their laptops.
- epx 7y agoThe iPhone 5 and the 2012 MBP were the zenith of Apple design.
- freyr 7y agoWhat if they flattened the keyboard completely? Replaced it with smooth glass? It could also be the display. It would be a computer, but the size of a pad of paper.
- manav 7y agoI
- usaphp 7y agoI want the left and right arrow keys to be small again, it drives me crazy that I can’t get used to it and always misclick. The empty space above the left and right keys was a great referral point
- flomo 7y ago... I have a 2016 MBP and I'm on my third keyboard/topcase (all repairs covered by Apple, so thumbsup). But both times they also decided to replace the logic board even though the computer was working fine and passed their initial diagnostics. I'm wondering if this isn't just a "dust and junk gets into the butterfly mechanisms" and maybe these machines have thermal issues which is causing mechanisms to get soft or melt. Steve Jobs said PCs were "trucks", but current MBP seems way more of an Italian sportacar which always has to be in the shop than a true truck.
- kimi 7y agoNot sure I'm the only one, but I'm at a conference with my 2019 MBP and when I see someone with an old MBP I think "that must be a new model.... I definitely could use all those ports and that nice keyboard". Then I remember it was tthe one I replaced with this definitely inferior machine (repeated letters left unedited)
- d-d 7y agoI feel your pain. The literal, actual pain of typing on a post-2015 MBP keyboard.
- pedalpete 7y agoDell has created a maglev keyboard it uses in some of the XPS line. They've kept these thin, but apparently the feel is quite good. I've been wondering, couldn't a keyboard use magnetic levitation to increase the key travel when the laptop is in use, but then turn off the magnets when folded so they sit flat?
- JoshTriplett 7y agoProviding key resistance with an electromagnet would cost battery. That said, it'd be fun to be able to turn key resistance up or down.
- pedalpete 7y agoI would think the battery drain would be negligible compared to your screen. But hey, maybe you could turn it down when not plugged in!?
- JoshTriplett 7y ago> I would think the battery drain would be negligible compared to your screen. I don't know how much battery it would require, but you'd want to provide enough resistance to make a keypress feel substantive and satisfying. That said, with a careful and fast feedback system, the keys could start out with just enough force to hold up the keycap, detect a finger starting to press them, and ramp up the force to that key to provide enough resistance, then stop again when the key has traveled back up. That could reduce the energy usage compared to always providing force comparable to a spring or scissor switch. That same feedback system could theoretically mimic the resistance curve of various other keyboard technologies.
- pedalpete 7y agoThat's a really good point Josh, I was reading something about a month ago about one of the gaming keyboard companies which has an adjustable magnetic switch which lets the user change the key travel, which I believe was also done via electromagnets. Hopefully none of this is too far off. I'm not sure how the industry got itself into its current condition of poor experiences due to a desire for the great thinness.
- blt 7y agoIt seems that everybody in this thread is equating thin and light, but I don't see why they should be so closely coupled. After using a Chromebook for a while, my 2013 rMBP feels really heavy. Seems like they could get some of the weight out but keep enough thickness for a decent keyboard and airflow.
- dsego 7y agoAgreed, my t480s weighs the same (even a bit less) as the 2016 macbook pro, but it's chunkier and has all the ports.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 7y agoThis fetish for thinness is how we end up with 2100 dollar laptops whose keyboards start acting up in 2 months of purchase, and simply can't be cleaned or easily replaced because the whole thing is frigging glued shut with barely any clearance. There is a lot of mythos about Steve Jobs but I feel confident in saying that the hot garbage that is post-2015 Macbook 'Pros' would not have shipped (or at least been promptly brought back to the drawing board) in his realm.
- chipotle_coyote 7y agoSo far only one other comment seems to have pointed out that this is a patent filing -- from 2016, no less -- not a commitment. Apple has filed many, many patents over the years that haven't gone anywhere. Meanwhile, there's been several rumors from the supply chain that the next keyboard design from Apple that's actually going into production goes back to scissor switches. I think it might be worth waiting to see what the next new keyboard design -- which may not be the next laptop that they ship, depending on how far their infamously long pipeline stretches -- actually is before bringing out the tar and feathers.
- qaq 7y agoI got used to the keyboard if they removed TouchBar I would be fine with current gen. :)
- doyoulikeworms 7y agoI just want the keyboard to last longer than a year without breaking.
- zer0zzz 7y agoI love my 2015 mbp like the next guy but if this can make the design more reliable and less prone to wear or failures due to liquid spills (if it’s sealed off) then I’d say this is a good thing
- collyw 7y agoJust what I was looking for - a thinner computer. /s
- mailopl 7y agoWho the hell needs a thinner MacBook? Are you gonna cut your bread with it? Give me back my MagSafe, useful keyboard and extra ports you idiots!
- stunt 7y agoSomething tells me that they pretty much believe that PRO users should use external keyboard. Which sounds really wrong to me. I don't care if macbookPRO gets thinner. I like it to be lighter for sure but the thickness is not a priority for me over keyboard.
- doctat 7y agoThey’re not going to stop, until we are all typing on a flat glass panel with our fingers, just like I’m doing with my thumbs on this iPhone. They already did it with my beloved ESC key...
- christkv 7y agoI guess we will end up with this again https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Sinclair-ZX81.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Sinclair...
- mnm1 7y agoI see they've given up on any semblance of ergonomics. Each idea listed in this article seems less ergonomic than the previous. Glass panel. It even sounds painful. Clearly these patents and their resulting products are aimed at laypersons who do casual computing rather than power users. Seems on par with every product they've released in the last four years or so.
- ashishb 7y agoHas anyone here had any experience with moving to Linux? https://puri.sm/products/librem-15/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-15/
- lcnmrn 7y agoSolid state keys with force feedback on each key like the key(s) on the trackpad would do the trick.
- harel 7y agoIt's interesting how posts about polarising "hardware choices" collect so many comments. This really brings out the passion in people :) I am not a mac user but I appreciate the thin design as it's something that can go in my bag without thinking about it (as someone mentioned here). My problem with Macs is that terrible keyboard. I can tell how many people are using a new Mac in a noisy train carriage just by that furious clicking sound of the keys (followed sometimes by moans and curses due to mistypes).
- wtdata 7y agoWhen is enough just enough? Do the costumers really care about reducing a further 1mm from the thickness of a laptop sacrificing: keyboard usability, battery life and number of ports?
- kmjg88nvf8 7y agoOf course I want a thinner laptop, and so do you. You just don't want a thinner laptop that compromises on other things. I've seen the new Galaxy Book S and I want one. Thin is sexy. Apple has to keep up.
- djohnston 7y agoThey should just remove the keyboard entirely. At this point its a public health risk, endangering millions of people's hands and wrists in the name of chic
- wikibob 7y agoDoes anyone have thoughts on the 15-inch versus the 13-inch MacBook Pro these days? Particularly anybody who has used both for an extended period of time. Is the 13 screen size impractical small? Is it worth the tradeoff in weight for being easier to carry around?
- biddit 7y agoI downsized from a 2016 15” to a 2017 13” a year and regret it. The screen and dual core processor are really insufficient if you’re doing dev work. I recently hopped on a 15” again and was blown away by how much more real estate I had to work with. I don’t think the 1lb difference in weight is worth it at all.
- nottorp 7y agoHow about evaluating new keyboard mechanisms to make them work as well as the pre 2015 models in a dusty environment? Apple needs to fire more designers, it seems...
- szggzs27 7y agoSteve was mocking xerox for being run by people who have no idea how to develop a product. Jobs would mention that those people can only do marketing and sales and would drive the design to the point of uselessness. Wish he would be still alive, none of this self destructive bullshit would have continued. The touchbar would have been binned and the butterfly keyboard slapped on the wall of shame with the title "think before you build"
- romanovcode 7y agoThe touchbar is the reason I switched to Linux using XPS.
- asenna 7y agoI really wish I could switch back to Linux but not being able to use Adobe tools is what's stopping me. I am now considering dual boot of Linux + Windows for only when Adobe is needed (which is not an ideal Solution). Just want to see how bad they screw up with the next MacBook before I make the switch. Currently running a 2015 MBP.
- swiley 7y agoDo the adobe tools really not run in wine? I haven't had a good reason to use it lately but modern wine (not the one in the debian repos) is pretty good once you have the 32 bit GNU userspace installed for it.
- asenna 7y agoIs it? Honestly, I've played around with wine a long time back and realized I can't use it for serious stuff and still sorta carried that thinking. Might have to give it a try again.
- swiley 7y agoThe last time I used it to run labview. I don't remember having any problems with it. Do note that wine is about implementing the win32/win64 runtime. WPF and other .net stuff don't really work well.
- therealmarv 7y agoFun fact: I have the MacBook Air 11" Core i7 from 2013 and Apple does not produce that small, light and powerful laptops anymore. If I want an i7 15 Watt CPU in a 2019 refreshment (it was nearly as fast as MacBook Pro 13" in 2013) it has to be larger and heavier nowadays, haha
- gameswithgo 7y agothermal throttling is already a problem. lets go thinner.
- wpdev_63 7y agoI guess I won't getting this mac either. Anyone at apple who values a thinner laptop over a ergonomic keyboard and longer battery life should be tared and feathered. It's embarrassing that I have to say this out loud.
- liquidify 7y agowe don't need thinner macbooks
- kup0 7y agoAt this point their products are thin enough. There really isn't a need to go any further. The quest for thinness at the expense of more important features is supremely annoying, and I say that as someone that uses a number of Apple products daily.
- kratom_sandwich 7y agoI mean ... When was the last time thickness was a limiting factor to you in any way? Why not focus on weight or size, which really do make a difference in everyday activities? Edit: Most replies here in favor of thinness write something akin to "I want a thinner MacBook because the current one is to heavy." But you're confusing two aspects of the product, right? I agree that they probably go hand in hand most of the time, but there might be occasions where thinner does not equal lighter or thicker does not equal heavier and I guess most of us would be happier if Apple focused on the weight aspect, not the thickness aspect ...
- Izkata 7y agoYou can't get much thinner than a photon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq6-2_mk0CI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq6-2_mk0CI Just integrated the projector/sensor into a tablet and add a way to stand it on edge.
- rajacombinator 7y agoLots of free money to be made by a company that can ship a reasonably priced (eg 500-1000 cheaper) mbp clone running Linux. Sounds like something YC should fund.
- sfifs 7y agoAnd this attitude convinces me to never consider move off my beefy Dell precision with its onboard CUDA GPU and Xeon processors :-)
- classified 7y agoAt this point, I don't want a thinner MacBook. One with a usable keyboard that doesn't force dongle hell upon me would already be fantastic progress from the status quo.
- pschastain 7y agoI don't need a thinner MBP; I need ports, a reliable keyboard and a large battery. I'm still using my old early '11 because I don't want to buy a new laptop only to have to send it off for repairs or have to buy a bunch of dongles to get the usability I need out of it.
- 0xdead 7y agoHere we go again. I thought they were going to bring back scissor switch? I guess this is going to be an endless cycle of Apple fucking up new laptops, deciding to switch back to a sane keyboard, and then suddenly forgetting about the whole deal.
- rpmisms 7y agoI just want an ultra-low-profile mechanical switch. Something like a kailh low-profile, but with apple genius applied. I'm sure it's possible, and I would go buy a new mac right now if they did that.
- adamcharnock 7y agoHold on. This patent was filed in May 2016, so presumably this concept was being worked on around the same that the oft-unloved keyboards were being developed/released. I may be missing something, but this sounds like old news and not a signal of current thinking within Apple.
- api 7y agoI simply don't understand the obsession with this at Apple.
- KoftaBob 7y agoIsn't thinness in a laptop the epitome of diminishing returns at this point? The high end ones are already at a pretty ideal level of thin, anything thinner is overkill and barely adds anything to the product. If anything, they should be focusing on battery life, 4k webcam, OLED/HDR displays, etc.
- CelestialTeapot 7y agoApple's current keyboard (among other reasons) is preventing me from replacing my mid-2010 MBP. It feels terrible to type on and dust motes apparently break them. As usual, they are sacrificing user experience for a meaningless saving of a few grams and/or millimeters. As it stands now, for the same price, I can buy a much more powerful laptop with a better (though, still not great) keyboard and just emulate OSX for the applications I use.
- sleepybrett 7y agostop, key travel distance matters!
- blobs 7y agoI really hoped their focus would be on making an even better keyboard than the one in MBP 2015, and of course the return of at least the physical escape key.. But to be honest, I gave up all hope on that. They destroyed the MBP, making it a more classy thing for the upper class maybe? At least, the latter seems to become more and more their market. For now I stick to my 2015 MBP, keeping it alive as long as possible. I refuse to go to Windows. Although it's a solid OS, it feels like it's infected by multiple viruses to me. They can go F* their selves with all their add-ware rubbish, forced auto updates(silently adding even more sophisticated viruses), sending home heaps of private data(including my keystrokes), etc, etc.. And although I love Linux, as on OS it's just not good enough yet compared to OSX IMHO.
- davidbogue 7y agoThe last paragraph in this article is the most concerning. Surely, this would never happen? "There has also been the suggestion of using glass panel keyboards with force detection for each key, the addition of touch-sensitive keys, and replacing the keyboard section of a MacBook entirely with a touchscreen."
- snth 7y agoI'm dying to switch to a good Linux laptop. Any suggestions for one that could replace my MacBook pro? Every previous time I've done this, I've been disappointed with something basic: wifi, battery management, video card support, using external projectors. Have these issues been worked out?
- ndesaulniers 7y agoAvoid Razer, unless you like visible screen blanking. I've submitted tens of bug reports to Intel, to know avail. ("Try drm-tip")
- tpfour 7y agoJust get a Thinkpad and (mostly) stop worrying. I bought a Macbook Pro in 2009 and used it until 2017 when I switched to a T470. Haven't regretted it one second. Debian works flawlessly, as does OpenBSD.
- devmunchies 7y agoI was considering getting a Thinkpad and running Debian or Manjaro to replace my MBP. I know historically thinkpads have been good machines, but do the new X or T series laptops still live up to the reputation?
- tpfour 7y agoI have a T470 and I love it. Some say the keyboards aren't what they used to be, but overall, I absolutely love the machine. While I think it looks good, I consider it a tool, not a fashion statement. I just need it to work, all the time, and have a great keyboard. It has everything I personally need.
- ufo 7y agoRegarding video, you should be fine as long as you avoid the Nvidia video cards.
- rewgs 7y agoTotally shameless: currently selling a 2015 13” Retina display MBP if anyone is interested.
- chooseaname 7y ago> The most recent attempt in August suggested the use of light in an "Optical Keyboard" to replace switches entirely, with key presses obscuring a light source and triggering a press. Please no. I like key travel. This would virtually have none. Ok, a fraction.
- auiya 7y agoIf they instead used the extra space to include more battery capacity, people would appreciate that more.
- cweagans 7y agoI want a mobile workstation, not this weird obsession with making it thinner, lighter, etc. It's cool that it's thin and light, but function needs to come over form. The keyboard is trash (literally causes me knuckle pain compared to the old chiclet keyboards), the loss of magsafe has caused some pretty severe damage to my last macbook (somebody wasn't looking where they were going in a coffee shop and tripped over the cable -- took the entire laptop with it, dented the case where it hit the ground, and screwed up the USB C port), and the touchbar gets _hot_. Give me a 2016 Macbook Pro with a retina display with an upgraded proc + ram + user servicable parts. Or even better, open up macOS to other hardware so that I can choose the system that works the best for me. I don't need an appliance, but damn, I miss macOS.
- Jonahgay 7y agoBreaks easy ?