7 ms·

So they detained him and then found a reason: plastic BBs in a checked bag. Less dangerous than the plastic knives they serve with food in the cabin. China str

So they detained him and then found a reason: plastic BBs in a checked bag. Less dangerous than the plastic knives they serve with food in the cabin. China strictly controls ammunition inside China. There is no way plastic BBs are considered ammunition. ... But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft guns to the USA. Taiwan will happily increase production.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago
If only they cared that much about the illicit fentanyl production in their country. Oh wait, it isn't illicit, it is state-sanctioned.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I mean, not that China deserves to be defended on anything, but on that particular issue with the west, there's a bit of history there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    The USA never exported opium to China.
    - Merrill 7y ago
      >"Western traders, including those from the United States, had long sought a variety of Chinese products (including furniture, silk and tea), but found there were few products that China wanted from the West. American trade with China began as early as 1784, relying on North American exports such as furs, sandalwood, and ginseng, but American interest in Chinese products soon outstripped the Chinese appetite for these American exports. The British had already discovered a great market in southern China for smuggled opium, and American traders soon also turned to opium to supplement their exports to China. Beyond the health problems related to opium addiction, the increasing opium trade with the Western powers meant that for the first time, China imported more goods than it exported." https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm The US promoted the "Open Door" policy towards Chine, i.e. whatever traders of other nations could do, the US traders could also do.
    - magicsmoke 7y ago
      Franklin Delano Roosevelt's family fortune was built from his grandfather Warren Delano Jr's opium smuggling business. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/28/opinion/the-opium-war-s-secret-history.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/28/opinion/the-opium-war-s-s...
- vonseel 7y ago
  Fuck fentanyl. It is a huge problem in America. I’m sick of hearing about people overdosing from this drug.
  - serf 7y ago
    >Fuck fentanyl the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and damaging to those of us with chronic pain that find fentanyl to be a solution to their woes. Point the blame where it belongs. Fuck under-regulation, over-prescription, greedy doctors, broken medical systems, for-profit care, and systematic government abuse.
    - cj 7y ago
      That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame the guns” But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate medical purposes).
      - xwolfi 7y ago
        Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ? Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation, expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?
        cj 7y ago
        I’m not sure what you’re implying. No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem. Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t solve the problem. But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.
      - dirtyid 7y ago
        China rescheduled fentanyl in response to Trump on May 1st. One month later: "Most fentanyl is now trafficked across US-Mexico border, not from China". Because Mexico is importing fentanyl precursors from China and taking over distribution like everyone predicted. Then a few days ago Virginia took down a multi-state drug ring and attributed 30kg of the fentanyl from Shanghai. The cynic will think China is using this as a bargaining chip, but fentanyl is simply too easy to smuggle. US is failing to detect imports, think how much harder it is for China, the worlds biggest exporter to manage on the export end. Import and manufacturing control is a dead end when it comes to opiates, the chemistry is too basic and the logistics too easy. Look at all the places where fentanyl isn't a problem for solutions. IMO, export control is the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" (apart from Vancouver) tier thinking.
- ummonk 7y ago
  They should do that once the West pays reparations for the opium war.
  - dqpb 7y ago
    "the West"
- CapricornNoble 7y ago
  They DO care about the fentanyl production (or feeder chemical production) in their country -- that's why there's so much of it. IMO I think it's both payback for the opium epidemic of the 1800s, as well as a deliberate effort by the PRC government to "kneecap" their #1 Strategic competitor in the 21st century via societal decay.
  - bikeshed 7y ago
    I reckon it's the same reason they bought Reddit. Poisoning the body and the mind.
    - pas 7y ago
      They didn't "bough Reddit". Tencent has a non controlling stake.
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    The USA had nothing, AFAIK, to do with the opium epidemic. That was all on the UK.
    - IllogicalLogic 7y ago
      Most of Teddy Roosevelt's wealth (the Delano fortune) came from Opium. So did the Coolidge (Thomas Jefferson's family), Sturgis, Low, Green, Forbes (John Kerry's family), & Russell family fortunes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_%26_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_%26_Company The trading roster for opium dealing in China is a who's who of who founded this country and funded ivy league schools.
      - pinkfoot 7y ago
        I stand corrected.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
gnu8 7y ago
Do you know for a fact that plastic BBs are not considered ammunition in China? That seems silly to me but I'm ready to believe it.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  There really isn’t rule of law in China, so this question is really moot. The officials will make whatever modification to the law on the fly to suit their current political needs.
LgWoodenBadger 7y ago
They could have found “anything” in his bag. No reason to believe he was carrying anything at all.
gscott 7y ago
Sounds like air-soft pellets. I imagine most are made in China.
avar 7y ago
> There is no way plastic BBs are considered ammunition. "Under Chinese law, one should be given a criminal penalty if he or she illegally owns more than 20 military bullets, 1,000 pellets for air guns or 200 non-military bullets." -- https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1903040562/ https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1903040562/ For more on how strict Chinese gun laws are see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China > But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft guns to the USA[...] Manufacturing with an export license isn't the same as private ownership. You may be interested to know that the US exports a lot of arms you're not allowed to buy privately.
- peteretep 7y ago
  I'm curious as to why this is being downvoted; do people think it's untrue? Seems like it's very useful contextual information
  - calebio 7y ago
    I think there's a debate to be had around whether or not the plastic BBs are considered pellets for air guns. I have a feeling the law is referring to the metal air rifle pellets, but I don't know that for a fact. Typically, pellets for air rifles are made of metal: https://www.pyramydair.com/images/PY-P-1144_JSB-Diabolo-Exact-Pellets_1493915231.jpg https://www.pyramydair.com/images/PY-P-1144_JSB-Diabolo-Exac... "Airsoft" pellets are plastic beads: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1AVsePVXXXXaQXpXX760XFXXXN/Airsoft-BBs-High-Quality-Super-Precision-0.png_350x350.png https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1AVsePVXXXXaQXpXX760XFXXXN/Air...
- russdill 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China "In People's Republic of China, despite the common belief that airsoft is outright banned, the official stance on airsoft is that it is technically just "tightly controlled".[13] However, the control standards are so strict and the punishments are so heavy-handed, that involvement in the sport (regarded as "wargame" or "live action CS") is considered too impractical for common individuals in Mainland China." "Law enforcement is also highly arbitrary, and many of the merchandises confiscated are actually either non-functional props or well below the replica limit"
pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
The high quality airsoft guns imported from china are already illegal as they copy real gun brands like Glock. The gas powered guns with hard plastic BBs do a similar amount of damage as a .22 rifle. 500+ ft/sec is common, and the rifles go over 1000 ft/sec. You could kill someone with an eyeball shot.
DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago
I read somewhere that the Chinese have laws that prohibit projectiles that can deliver certain levels of energy. I mean that not quite right as the gun fires the projectile, but it's possible they do consider this ammunition.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago

If only they cared that much about the illicit fentanyl production in their country. Oh wait, it isn't illicit, it is state-sanctioned.

Enginerrrd 7y ago
I mean, not that China deserves to be defended on anything, but on that particular issue with the west, there's a bit of history there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The USA never exported opium to China.
  - Merrill 7y ago
    >"Western traders, including those from the United States, had long sought a variety of Chinese products (including furniture, silk and tea), but found there were few products that China wanted from the West. American trade with China began as early as 1784, relying on North American exports such as furs, sandalwood, and ginseng, but American interest in Chinese products soon outstripped the Chinese appetite for these American exports. The British had already discovered a great market in southern China for smuggled opium, and American traders soon also turned to opium to supplement their exports to China. Beyond the health problems related to opium addiction, the increasing opium trade with the Western powers meant that for the first time, China imported more goods than it exported." https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/82011.htm The US promoted the "Open Door" policy towards Chine, i.e. whatever traders of other nations could do, the US traders could also do.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt's family fortune was built from his grandfather Warren Delano Jr's opium smuggling business. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/28/opinion/the-opium-war-s-secret-history.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/28/opinion/the-opium-war-s-s...
vonseel 7y ago
Fuck fentanyl. It is a huge problem in America. I’m sick of hearing about people overdosing from this drug.
- serf 7y ago
  >Fuck fentanyl the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and damaging to those of us with chronic pain that find fentanyl to be a solution to their woes. Point the blame where it belongs. Fuck under-regulation, over-prescription, greedy doctors, broken medical systems, for-profit care, and systematic government abuse.
  - cj 7y ago
    That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame the guns” But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate medical purposes).
    - xwolfi 7y ago
      Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ? Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation, expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?
      - cj 7y ago
        I’m not sure what you’re implying. No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem. Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t solve the problem. But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.
    - dirtyid 7y ago
      China rescheduled fentanyl in response to Trump on May 1st. One month later: "Most fentanyl is now trafficked across US-Mexico border, not from China". Because Mexico is importing fentanyl precursors from China and taking over distribution like everyone predicted. Then a few days ago Virginia took down a multi-state drug ring and attributed 30kg of the fentanyl from Shanghai. The cynic will think China is using this as a bargaining chip, but fentanyl is simply too easy to smuggle. US is failing to detect imports, think how much harder it is for China, the worlds biggest exporter to manage on the export end. Import and manufacturing control is a dead end when it comes to opiates, the chemistry is too basic and the logistics too easy. Look at all the places where fentanyl isn't a problem for solutions. IMO, export control is the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" (apart from Vancouver) tier thinking.
ummonk 7y ago
They should do that once the West pays reparations for the opium war.
- dqpb 7y ago
  "the West"
CapricornNoble 7y ago
They DO care about the fentanyl production (or feeder chemical production) in their country -- that's why there's so much of it. IMO I think it's both payback for the opium epidemic of the 1800s, as well as a deliberate effort by the PRC government to "kneecap" their #1 Strategic competitor in the 21st century via societal decay.
- bikeshed 7y ago
  I reckon it's the same reason they bought Reddit. Poisoning the body and the mind.
  - pas 7y ago
    They didn't "bough Reddit". Tencent has a non controlling stake.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  The USA had nothing, AFAIK, to do with the opium epidemic. That was all on the UK.
  - IllogicalLogic 7y ago
    Most of Teddy Roosevelt's wealth (the Delano fortune) came from Opium. So did the Coolidge (Thomas Jefferson's family), Sturgis, Low, Green, Forbes (John Kerry's family), & Russell family fortunes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_%26_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_%26_Company The trading roster for opium dealing in China is a who's who of who founded this country and funded ivy league schools.
    - pinkfoot 7y ago
      I stand corrected.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

gnu8 7y ago

Do you know for a fact that plastic BBs are not considered ammunition in China? That seems silly to me but I'm ready to believe it.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
There really isn’t rule of law in China, so this question is really moot. The officials will make whatever modification to the law on the fly to suit their current political needs.

LgWoodenBadger 7y ago

They could have found “anything” in his bag. No reason to believe he was carrying anything at all.

gscott 7y ago

Sounds like air-soft pellets. I imagine most are made in China.

avar 7y ago

> There is no way plastic BBs are considered ammunition. "Under Chinese law, one should be given a criminal penalty if he or she illegally owns more than 20 military bullets, 1,000 pellets for air guns or 200 non-military bullets." -- https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1903040562/ https://www.shine.cn/news/metro/1903040562/ For more on how strict Chinese gun laws are see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China > But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft guns to the USA[...] Manufacturing with an export license isn't the same as private ownership. You may be interested to know that the US exports a lot of arms you're not allowed to buy privately.

peteretep 7y ago
I'm curious as to why this is being downvoted; do people think it's untrue? Seems like it's very useful contextual information
- calebio 7y ago
  I think there's a debate to be had around whether or not the plastic BBs are considered pellets for air guns. I have a feeling the law is referring to the metal air rifle pellets, but I don't know that for a fact. Typically, pellets for air rifles are made of metal: https://www.pyramydair.com/images/PY-P-1144_JSB-Diabolo-Exact-Pellets_1493915231.jpg https://www.pyramydair.com/images/PY-P-1144_JSB-Diabolo-Exac... "Airsoft" pellets are plastic beads: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1AVsePVXXXXaQXpXX760XFXXXN/Airsoft-BBs-High-Quality-Super-Precision-0.png_350x350.png https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1AVsePVXXXXaQXpXX760XFXXXN/Air...
russdill 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China "In People's Republic of China, despite the common belief that airsoft is outright banned, the official stance on airsoft is that it is technically just "tightly controlled".[13] However, the control standards are so strict and the punishments are so heavy-handed, that involvement in the sport (regarded as "wargame" or "live action CS") is considered too impractical for common individuals in Mainland China." "Law enforcement is also highly arbitrary, and many of the merchandises confiscated are actually either non-functional props or well below the replica limit"

pg_is_a_butt 7y ago

The high quality airsoft guns imported from china are already illegal as they copy real gun brands like Glock. The gas powered guns with hard plastic BBs do a similar amount of damage as a .22 rifle. 500+ ft/sec is common, and the rifles go over 1000 ft/sec. You could kill someone with an eyeball shot.

DEADBEEFC0FFEE 7y ago

I read somewhere that the Chinese have laws that prohibit projectiles that can deliver certain levels of energy. I mean that not quite right as the gun fires the projectile, but it's possible they do consider this ammunition.