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China Detains Former U.S. Air Force Pilot Flying for FedEx
- arcticbull 7y agoAs a Canadian I can't really justify vacationing in the PRC at the moment, given I'd like to avoid mining minerals for the rest of my life. I mean, I'm sure I'd look great when (if?) I got out. Seriously between this and the other exit bans, it's not looking great.
- jaimex2 7y agoWhy would anyone vacation in China? There are so many better options in Asia.
- AimForTheBushes 7y agoI am extremely critical of their government but China has beautiful nature and culture. I would love to visit if it wasn't so Orwellian.
- jaimex2 7y agoIt is a shame. I've done China, Cambodia and Vietnam. Highly recommend Vietnam, especially trekking in Sapa. The Chinese government loves offering students here in Australia free brainwashing trips, all expenses paid. It's was actually a good trip minus the sermons about why Huawei should have built the national broadband network.
- solotronics 7y agoAre you serious about the Huawei talks?
- jaimex2 7y agoYep
- 0xdeadb00f 7y ago> The Chinese government loves offering students here in Australia free brainwashing trips I'm curious about this. Can you elaborate a little? How does this work?
- jaimex2 7y agoThey call it seeds of the future: https://www.huawei.com/au/press-events/news/au/2019/huawei-australia-opens-doors-to-seeds-for-the-future-2019-program https://www.huawei.com/au/press-events/news/au/2019/huawei-a...
- justinzollars 7y agoIt's not the people's fault the government sucks. And the Chinese culture is very interesting.
- throwaway1997 7y agoChina has done a very good job of destroying its own culture since the cultural revolution. Hong Kong and Taiwan have preserved more of the traditional culture while continuing to move forward.
- Wellrowed 7y agoI've been. Sure, its Orwellian, I'm in their "system" now. But it was absolutely fascinating, I'd say go while you still can.
- AimForTheBushes 7y agoI would not go in their current state. It's only one rung above visiting N. Korea in my opinion.
- solstice 7y agoI'm sorry, but that second sentence is just ridiculous. Conflating NK and PRC does no one any good. Sure, the space for civil society has tightened a lot since 2011, you've got the trade war and a ton of other simmering conflicts, but on the whole (with the exception of Xinjiang) it's fine.
- kick 7y agoYou're forgetting what they're doing to Tibet.
- AimForTheBushes 7y agoI don't mean that as a matter of fact but a matter of personal opinion. I am as likely to go there as N. Korea.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoIs XJ really that bad now? When I visited in 2006, it was pretty tame with the exception of the area immediately near the border. It doesn’t even require a travel permit/full time tour guide like Tibet does.
- solstice 7y agoAfaik it is now well on its way towards a full-on techno-police state dystopia aimed at the uyghurs (ai, big data, facial recognition, ideological reeducation camps, politically reliable Han Chinese as forced live-ins in uyghur families tempting them to drink alcohol and reporting on them, forced installation of surveillance apps....)
- arcticbull 7y agoThere's tons of gorgeous places on the mainland, and Hainan, and the Hong Kong and Macau SARs (although they've gotta do some more leg-work to exfil you from one of the latter two).
- Analemma_ 7y agoJust go to Taiwan: it’s Chinese culture without the Chinese government (or the air pollution, or the visa process, etc.)
- nostrademons 7y agoThere's a long cultural history to China. Great Wall, Tiananmen Square, Terra Cotta Army, Hutongs, Yangtze River, Three Gorges, authentic Chinese cuisine that will probably make you sick to your stomach, Guilin, Pearl River, Hong Kong, and many other places. I'm really glad I went back in 2006 before national governments started getting snippy with each other and their citizens. I wouldn't go now because I don't really like the idea of being imprisoned without trial, but if you ignore the politics there's a lot to experience in China.
- chrischen 7y agoAmong the developed country tourist spots China has always been down on the list. The top spots are Japan, Thailand, South Korea, and Taiwan. But probably the biggest hurdle to China tourism is that you have to apply for a Visa whereas all those places offer Visa-waivers to most developed countries.
- yomly 7y agoSpeak for yourself some of the landscape in China is truly one of a kind
- derrick_jensen 7y agoBy definition all landscapes are one of a kind
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoI believe chrischen was referring to actual visitor counts, not personal opinions: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2019/09/04/the-worlds-most-visited-city-is-bangkok/#4f487fabcd26 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericrosen/2019/09/04/the-worlds...
- chrischen 7y agoIf I were speaking for myself then I would be talking about how I've visited China more than all those other countries I've listed combined ;). But having been to all those countries, China is still the one place where a foreigner still gets ogled at whereas in those other countries no one bats an eye.
- justinzollars 7y agoI vacationed in China! I was so curious to see the country whose GPD will overtake the USA. Also I was politically curious. The food is amazing and the culture is very different. It was a great - and mind opening trip. That said it made me very proud to be an American!
- outworlder 7y ago> GDP will overtake Will?
- justinzollars 7y agoby ppp, have.
- arcticbull 7y ago$16,800 for China and $59,000 for the US. Not by a country mile. Even Hong Kong is in the high 50s. It’s only Macau in with a clear win at $112,000 thanks to the high number of casinos per capita. It may well overtake in the future but it has yet to.
- justinzollars 7y agoYou are talking about per capita. Yes, it will take a long time. But if the Chinese are half as productive as you and I their economy will be double our size. Remember there are at least 4 Chinese people per 1 person in the USA. That changes the math a lot.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoPpp measures are incredibly inaccurate, especially if you want to compare similar lifestyles. Having a western-leave middle class lifestyle is just as expensive (for many things more so) than many places in the west.
- justinzollars 7y ago
- mc32 7y agoIt’s right up there with Russia and authoritarian destinations in the Middle East for me in terms of places I’m not gonna go to to vacation.
- wensheng 7y agoI've been to about 20 national parks each in US and China. I'd say on the whole China has better natural scenes. The problem with China is the crowd. Every where you go, there's huge crowd, which ruin the experience.
- rantwasp 7y agofor me, China and all countries that have 0 respect for basic human right are a hard no. Yes, some places are gorgeous. No, it’s not worth losing your life/freedom over
- CapricornNoble 7y agoI thought about spending 1-3 months studying Bajiquan (a kinda-rare martial art) near Beijing.[1] It would be a great immersive Chinese cultural experience. When all the Huawei stuff kicked into high gear, and they ramped up detaining Canadians and Americans for BS reasons, I completely canx'd the idea. And I'm an ex-military officer, too? Easy to paint me as a spy. Not worth the risk. [1]https://www.studymartialarts.org/school/an-wushu-international-martial-arts-school/54.html https://www.studymartialarts.org/school/an-wushu-internation...
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoChina is a huge country with lots to see. Not just old stuff, but natural scenery as well. It is also quite affordable. Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Thailand, Nepal...all have their own appeal, but even together don’t cover completely what you can do in China. (They all have better internet, however)
- justinzollars 7y agoI just traveled to China, and my Airbnb tour guide told me tourists from the US and North America are "way down this year".
- aiscapehumanity 7y agoTaiwan seems pretty good though, probably the best alternative right now
- chillacy 7y agoProbably even better if one is looking for history: more traditional language, no cultural revolution, excellent foods brought in from all over mainland China too during the exodus of the KMT.
- tanilama 7y agoJapan/South Korea would be your choice, though expensive.
- sho 7y agoAs a Canadian, you're currently detaining Meng Wanzhou, Huawei's ex-CFO, at the USA's behest, for allegedly violating the USA's unilateral Trump-tweet sanctions against Iran. The Chinese are furious about it. You can be sure their media is portraying that case with just as much outrage as Mr Bag-full-of-airsoft here. I don't mean to start a round of whataboutism - just to point out that none of this is happening in a vacuum. I do agree that as a Canadian - probably not the best time. Mining minerals is a bit of an exaggeration though. He'll be detained for a couple of weeks, then deported with a 10-year ban. This is countries playing power games, nothing more.
- arcticbull 7y agoNo, Canada is a rule-of-law country. Canada is detaining Meng Wanzhou on the suspicion of committing fraud, not because of Iranian sanctions. Violating US sanctions is not a crime in Canada and therefore nobody can be held in Canada for doing so, even at the behest of the US authorities. You can only be extradited from Canada for committing an act that would be a crime both in Canada and in the country requesting extradition. Meng is free to move about Vancouver and is under "house arrest" at her two houses there totaling $16M CAD [1]. If the judge finds there's no reasonable likelihood of her having committed fraud, she will be free to go, end of story. There's also a short, defined clock for them to do so. They've sentenced at least one Canadian to death in retaliation [2] and prevented others from leaving the country indefinitely. Don't make excuses here, don't equivocate, there's no whataboutism to play. One is under legitimate investigation for committing a crime in a jurisdiction that operates autonomously of the body politic and will be free to go if not guilty -- and in the interrim free to move about almost twenty million dollars of property and one of the most livable cities in the world. The other is being executed in retaliation. [1] https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2177157/surprise-surprise-vancouver-huawei-cfo-sabrina-meng https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-confirms-canadian-death-sentence-apparent-retaliation-huawei-cfo-2019-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-confirms-canadian-deat...
- sho 7y agoWow, did I strike a nerve? I'm not making excuses or equivocating. I'm simply pointing out that this is not some random tantrum on the Chinese side. The USA, and Canada, knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to "make an example of" Ms. Meng, and the Chinese are retaliating by making an example of some westerners - who, by the way, are all charged with crimes as well, unless you are claiming they were framed? Meng's charges are 100% about the Iran sanctions. This "fraud" was allegedly misrepresenting the destination of funds - allegedly to conceal a relationship with a company previously accused of trading with Iran. Meng was explicitly arrested by request from the USA. I invite you to put aside your outrage, step back, and think about how the other side might view things. This "law" that Meng has broken - in her home country - is viewed as an illegitimate attempt by the USA to impose its will on the rest of the world. Illegitimate law, illegitimate investigation - and if you think enforcement of this kind of law isn't arbitrary, think again. The US knew what it was doing, and China's decision to start strictly enforcing one or two of its own laws is the absolutely predictable outcome. One more thing. I'm not "making excuses". I'm no great fan of China and I'd never live there. But I'm tired of the narrative of "my own righteous, virtuous country can do no wrong" vs "the evil, scheming little brainwashed totalitarians". It's simply ignorant to think so. There are a great deal of intelligent, reasonable Chinese, and when they do things, they do them for a reason. Look for those reasons. If all you can come up with is "because they're evil" - go back to the drawing board.
- Leary 7y ago"HONG KONG—Chinese authorities have detained a FedEx Corp. pilot in the southern city of Guangzhou, elevating pressure on the express shipping giant that is already in Beijing’s crosshairs amid a U.S.-China trade war. The pilot, a former U.S. Air Force colonel named Todd A. Hohn, was detained a week ago while waiting for a commercial flight to his home in Hong Kong after flying deliveries throughout Asia from the FedEx regional hub in Guangzhou, people familiar with the matter said. A lawyer for the Hohn family in Niceville, Fla., confirmed that Mr. Hohn had been detained in China. He was a wing commander at the Altus Air Force Base in Oklahoma until 2017. Reached briefly at his hotel room Thursday, Mr. Hohn identified himself to a reporter and then referred all questions to a family lawyer and discontinued the phone call. He is married and a father, the people familiar with the matter said. When he was detained, Mr. Hohn was carrying nonmetallic pellets used in low-power replica air guns in a checked bag, the people said. Chinese authorities have alleged that Mr. Hohn was illegally transporting ammunition and have begun a criminal investigation, the people said."
- outworlder 7y ago> authorities have alleged that Mr. Hohn was illegally transporting ammunition Is this all they managed to come up with? The bar for saber rattling is low these days.
- camhenlin 7y agoYeah, and to add to that, it appears that while airsoft guns are technically very restricted to the point of being non-practical in China, there is no reason to believe that the pellets themselves would be restricted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#China
- outworlder 7y agoFrom that link, the law seems to be fuzzy enough that they can selectively enforce whatever they want.
- knzhou 7y ago
- scrumbledober 7y agoBy "nonmetallic pellets used in low-power replica air guns" are they referring to airsoft BB's?
- iamtheworstdev 7y agoThat's honestly what it sounds like.
- Dig1t 7y agoYeah, it seems like it. ️
- camhenlin 7y agoYeah that is absolutely what it sounds like to me, these are toys that many people played with as children or would be willing to give to children to play with. Pretty harmless unless it catches you in the eye. They are specifically designed to not be dangerous. I've never heard of any other type of air-fired plastic pellets at least. Pretty enraging and hopefully Mr. Hohn is able to make it back to American soil very soon
- scrumbledober 7y agoI can totally understand some repercussions if he had been attempting to fly with an airsoft gun, but small plastic balls? This is just absurd.
- Taniwha 7y agoHe was transporting the IN to Hong Kong, I can understand that being a sensitive topic right now
- jethro_tell 7y agoThe what now?
- 7y ago
- iamtheworstdev 7y agoAnd at a minimum they knew he is former military thanks to that huge OPM hack several years ago. As he would have shown up on the list along with having a security clearance.
- _iyig 7y agoTrue. That said, U.S. military service is generally a matter of public record, e.g.: https://www.altus.af.mil/News/Art/igphoto/2001074536/ https://www.altus.af.mil/News/Art/igphoto/2001074536/
- steve19 7y agoAnd failing that linkedIn.
- Basketb926 7y agoThat or maybe some of this other evidence about him easily findable on Google https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97WBHOXOSZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97WBHOXOSZU https://www.altus.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/619843/hohn-takes-command-at-altus-air-force-base/ https://www.altus.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/619843...
- squarefoot 7y agoVery likely. They needed a pawn for the economic war against the US and took the first opportunity; the arrest for carrying airsoft pellets seems the only pretext they could find.
- knzhou 7y agoA billion people is a lot. Does literally every action taken by anybody in China have to be part of a government plot? Do you honestly think that this tiny, random event is going to have any bearing on trade negotiations, or are you just looking to ascribe any sinister motive you can?
- 7y ago
- HillaryBriss 7y agowhat percentage of FedEx pilots are ex-military?
- paulmd 7y agoI don't know if it's a majority, it may be, but it's at least a large minority. Airlines (both passenger and freight) don't want to pay to train their own pilots, so their staffing pipelines rely heavily on ex-military pilots. Many military and passenger aircraft share a basic airframe, for example the KC-135 is a 707 configured as a tanker for aerial refueling. Even the instances that are not - it would be relatively straightforward to transition from, say, a C-17 to a 767 or something like that. So pilots tend to retire from the USAF and fly the friendly skies with civilian airliners.
- madengr 7y agoChina doesn’t want guns, knives, or BB pellets in Hong Kong? I wonder why? Those of you who would abolish the second amendment should heed this as a warning.
- Justin_K 7y agoThey prefer when protesters can be slaughtered.
- jascii 7y agoTyrants eat meals, therefore people who eat meals are tyrants?
- outworlder 7y agoI've always wondered how good the second amendment is against tanks.
- epicureanideal 7y agoI've watched this debate from the sidelines so many times I can repeat the arguments... The answer is: tanks need to refuel somewhere, or trucks need to bring them more fuel. Also, the people inside the tanks need to get out to eat. And worse... again, just repeating the usual argument here... if it was against a truly dictatorial regime, let's say, to give the benefit of the doubt... the people inside the tank have friends and family that are not with them inside the tank. But I assume if it got to the point that hundreds of tanks and hundreds of aircraft were being used against US citizens, the humans in the military would probably not be okay with that and this scenario would never happen.
- nostrademons 7y agoAll of these arguments apply in guerilla warzones (eg. Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia) and while insurgents there have certainly been capable of inflicting casualties and denying the U.S. its strategic objectives, they also couldn't stop millions of their countrymen (and usually themselves) from being killed. Winning is cold comfort when everybody is dead.
- tepidandroid 7y agoJust so we're clear, HN users find a story about China temporarily detaining a US pilot to be top-of-front-page relevant, but the story about the US bombing 30 innocent farmers in Afghanistan gets flagged to death.
- HNKER 7y agoBecause there are many HN users that work in China or do business in China. This might be a good warning to US citizens to stay out of China.
- knzhou 7y agoMost such stories fall apart after a little prodding. Almost always, detentions are either dumb mistakes, quickly reversed, or the result of actual lawbreaking. Often you read a little further and it's like, "well yes, the drugs I was selling were technically against Chinese law, but..." However, that is not as fun a conclusion as joining in on bashing the outgroup.
- jhanschoo 7y agoThis may be that, and is most likely that for most other countries, but the PRC has a history of disappearances and detainment under false charges, along with elements of the whole Stalin theater. This is why many are immediately more concerned when something like this happens in China than in say, Switzerland.
- whoevercares 7y agoIf they are already there, they either get paid order of magnitude better(yes I’m not kidding some can’t even find job in US) or China brings tons of profit to their business (cheap labor and lower cost ecosystem) such that they accepted the risk.
- bigbluedots 7y agoUnfortunately one is news because it doesn't happen often, and the other is not news because it does
- no_opinions 7y agoThis is the kind of stuff better foreign relations would smooth out nicely. You'd never see a news headline. There'd be zero drama. How do you have better foreign relations? Better compatibility between legal systems would be a start. What sense is their putting a westerner up against a socialist legal system? They're not citizens. I can only imagine how much this man is being traumatized by this. Reading material on China's criminal justice system (pdf): https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=jj_pubs https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1... China has different types of detainment. It doesn't specify if he's in the administrative kind or the one facing much more serious repercussions. This is just one area where China's incompatibility is going to end up costing it. You don't see the intellectual property stolen / royalties, and people who would potential bring wealth to China if they weren't so stubbornly insistent on maintaining an oligarchy. Who is China's gov really working for? Nobody knows, it's so opaque. But if their system - which they subject their own citizens and foreigners alike to - was so humane and just, why not show the innards of it to demonstrate the virtuosity and benevolence of it?
- est 7y agoITT: People got angry over a passenger got detained in a third-world country for bullshit reasons
- killjoywashere 7y agoThis is what you can do when you have all the background investigations for the US government. You don't need any evidence of wrongdoing. You have prima facia evidence the person could be a military operative. Military on foreign soil is big deal and US may find themselves with little recourse other than routine diplomatic channels.
- greesil 7y agoWhen I was in China back in the day, a friend bought a realistic-looking bb pistol and probably a few hundred rounds from a crap market. We probably could have robbed a store with it. I'm rather skeptical that this stuff is actually illegal.
- pas 7y agoIt depends. For example in Beijing (and probably in other big cities) you can't carry a knife, but in a small town you can. The laws are a jungle everywhere :/ The detainment is the worrying part here.
- 112012123 7y agoThis is definitely politically motivated. I was with a (Chinese citizen) friend when airport security found a few rounds of ammunition in her baggage, and the guards just shrugged and confiscated it. No further issues.