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I think it's worth discussing this comment instead of downvoting it. There was a lot of controversy around the copyright expiration of Mein Kampf in Germany a

I think it's worth discussing this comment instead of downvoting it. There was a lot of controversy around the copyright expiration of Mein Kampf in Germany a few years ago. The Bavarian government owned the copyright and refused to allow it to be printed. When the copyright expired, annotated versions were released, putting the book in context. There are certain disadvantages that not printing had: making the book more mysterious and taboo, and leaving the text to stand on its own when it was acquired (thus having no space for rebuttals, historical comments, etc.). Personally I lean toward keeping these kinds of things but annotating them and providing ample context - the equivalent of a study on history or a museum exhibit. Maybe we as a species can learn from our mistakes. It's not like forgetting these texts will prevent the same conditions that created the rise of fascism and genocide.

joe_the_user 7y ago
I think it's worth discussing this comment instead of downvoting it. Fortunately, we can do both. Despite being nearly white, you can read the comment by highlighting it and it is still high the page, so it can be discussed. Seems like a model of how strongly oppositions should be treated.
lacampbell 7y ago
I never understood the big deal about Mein Kampf. It's incredibly dull. If the premise is you're worried about people becoming Nazis, then his speeches are what you ought to be worried about. He rose to popularity through his speeches, not writing.
- mirimir 7y ago
  For example, "Triumph Of The Will".[0] 0) https://archive.org/details/TriumphOfTheWillgermanTriumphDesWillens https://archive.org/details/TriumphOfTheWillgermanTriumphDes...
  - pdkl95 7y ago
    "Triumph of the Will and the Cinematic Language of Propaganda" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1Qm1Z_D7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1Qm1Z_D7w The propaganda was incredibly successful. To this day "Triumph of the Will" continues to be used as a reference point for the mental construct of the Nazi regime. The modern understanding of the Nazis is deeply informed by a propaganda film produced by the Nazis for the explicit purpose of creating that mental construct. "Triumph of the Will"'s endless lines of soldiers marching in formation is exactly the image they wanted you to think of when you thought of them.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Not just that. There's a long sequence on life in the young men's camp. The feeling is a lot like Woodstock. Or maybe a mix of summer camp and an idyllic version of basic training. And the light show! Camp fires and torchlight! Huge insignia, and huge billowing banners. Very moving.
raxxorrax 7y ago
I think Germany is no good role model when it comes to content restrictions, since too many measures are based on fear or shame, while adherence to arbitrary content rules isn't examined critically. That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Luckily, the 21st century doesn't allow for much content control anymore. Mein Kampf can reasonably fail on itself. There is need for context, of course, that education can and has to provide. If you allow people to use their own judgement, perhaps that would have served as an incentive to use it in times of dire need. The current idea that fascism rose because of too few content control is a grave mistake.
- tastroder 7y ago
  > That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Citation needed? From the view of my filter bubble it looks like white supremacy and it's racist ideologies seem to be on an alarming rise in both countries regardless of their approach on free speech.
  - concordDance 7y ago
    Rant: Racist idealogies wouldn't be on the rise if it were easy to Google actual arguments against racism, but despite trying various search terms Google keeps failing. >:(
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      On the other hand, it is extremely easy to find arguments for racism, which is probably part of the reason racism is on the rise.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    A citation for my believes? Unfortunately freedom of information has come under attack in the US as well lately, so yes, the rise of some circles is no surprise or contradiction. Unfortunately that aligns fascist groups with people that see value in these freedoms. Although to those it is mostly no secret that fascists are just temporary passengers with other ambitions. Fascism needs the antagonist, it is an essential piece of the puzzle. Only through that people are able to strip their conscience, elevate themselves above others and commit atrocities against people they see as threats. It is their personal victim role. "White supremacy" was a laughing stock 10 years ago. And I mean really a laughing stock. Their last hope was to sweep up some anime weaboos that didn't really buy into it in any significant number, but it was their goto strategy to groom these groups in hope someone a litte too full of himself would randomly condemn them as the root of evil or just plainly associate them with facsism. You can fight fascism with giving people more freedoms and more access to information. That collapses their victim narrative and has the positive side effect from the measures itself. Censoring a book, banning people perceived to align with fascism, or pointing out moral imperatives doesn't achieve anything. On the contrary and I believe this behavior to be a main factor to current developments. But since the US has basic and fundamental protections to freedom of speech and against overreaching government, it is in a far better state compared to Germany, which is partly on the road to make the same mistakes again.
goatinaboat 7y ago
Mein Kampf is a unique example in the sense that far, far more harmful books, by any objective measure, have remained freely available. As such it cannot be used as a general template on how to handle such material.

joe_the_user 7y ago

I think it's worth discussing this comment instead of downvoting it. Fortunately, we can do both. Despite being nearly white, you can read the comment by highlighting it and it is still high the page, so it can be discussed. Seems like a model of how strongly oppositions should be treated.

lacampbell 7y ago

I never understood the big deal about Mein Kampf. It's incredibly dull. If the premise is you're worried about people becoming Nazis, then his speeches are what you ought to be worried about. He rose to popularity through his speeches, not writing.

mirimir 7y ago
For example, "Triumph Of The Will".[0] 0) https://archive.org/details/TriumphOfTheWillgermanTriumphDesWillens https://archive.org/details/TriumphOfTheWillgermanTriumphDes...
- pdkl95 7y ago
  "Triumph of the Will and the Cinematic Language of Propaganda" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1Qm1Z_D7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1Qm1Z_D7w The propaganda was incredibly successful. To this day "Triumph of the Will" continues to be used as a reference point for the mental construct of the Nazi regime. The modern understanding of the Nazis is deeply informed by a propaganda film produced by the Nazis for the explicit purpose of creating that mental construct. "Triumph of the Will"'s endless lines of soldiers marching in formation is exactly the image they wanted you to think of when you thought of them.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Not just that. There's a long sequence on life in the young men's camp. The feeling is a lot like Woodstock. Or maybe a mix of summer camp and an idyllic version of basic training. And the light show! Camp fires and torchlight! Huge insignia, and huge billowing banners. Very moving.

raxxorrax 7y ago

I think Germany is no good role model when it comes to content restrictions, since too many measures are based on fear or shame, while adherence to arbitrary content rules isn't examined critically. That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Luckily, the 21st century doesn't allow for much content control anymore. Mein Kampf can reasonably fail on itself. There is need for context, of course, that education can and has to provide. If you allow people to use their own judgement, perhaps that would have served as an incentive to use it in times of dire need. The current idea that fascism rose because of too few content control is a grave mistake.

tastroder 7y ago
> That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Citation needed? From the view of my filter bubble it looks like white supremacy and it's racist ideologies seem to be on an alarming rise in both countries regardless of their approach on free speech.
- concordDance 7y ago
  Rant: Racist idealogies wouldn't be on the rise if it were easy to Google actual arguments against racism, but despite trying various search terms Google keeps failing. >:(
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    On the other hand, it is extremely easy to find arguments for racism, which is probably part of the reason racism is on the rise.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  A citation for my believes? Unfortunately freedom of information has come under attack in the US as well lately, so yes, the rise of some circles is no surprise or contradiction. Unfortunately that aligns fascist groups with people that see value in these freedoms. Although to those it is mostly no secret that fascists are just temporary passengers with other ambitions. Fascism needs the antagonist, it is an essential piece of the puzzle. Only through that people are able to strip their conscience, elevate themselves above others and commit atrocities against people they see as threats. It is their personal victim role. "White supremacy" was a laughing stock 10 years ago. And I mean really a laughing stock. Their last hope was to sweep up some anime weaboos that didn't really buy into it in any significant number, but it was their goto strategy to groom these groups in hope someone a litte too full of himself would randomly condemn them as the root of evil or just plainly associate them with facsism. You can fight fascism with giving people more freedoms and more access to information. That collapses their victim narrative and has the positive side effect from the measures itself. Censoring a book, banning people perceived to align with fascism, or pointing out moral imperatives doesn't achieve anything. On the contrary and I believe this behavior to be a main factor to current developments. But since the US has basic and fundamental protections to freedom of speech and against overreaching government, it is in a far better state compared to Germany, which is partly on the road to make the same mistakes again.

goatinaboat 7y ago

Mein Kampf is a unique example in the sense that far, far more harmful books, by any objective measure, have remained freely available. As such it cannot be used as a general template on how to handle such material.