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I hate this kind of advertising. It is bullshit and I am tired of it. In GIANT BOLD: $50 In smaller font: "each" In even smaller font: "$150/mo" is finally e

I hate this kind of advertising. It is bullshit and I am tired of it. In GIANT BOLD: $50 In smaller font: "each" In even smaller font: "$150/mo" is finally explained "High-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after." is not unlimited data when the "slower after" speeds can barely load google's search page. It is, 'high-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after". Do we need to start throwing around a dictionary definition of the word unlimited? This is getting old... Just because it's google, doesn't mean they get a pass on car-salesman type sleazy sales tactics. Why not just advertise it plainly? This method of advertising makes someone like me less likely to buy this product.

scblock 7y ago
Yep. Looks like garbage to me. Someday "unlimited" will mean it, but right now it's just code for "actually quite limited but written in small print." I'll pass.
- ratsimihah 7y ago
  Unlimited used to mean unlimited.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Now it means “caveat emptor.”
    - tempodox 7y ago
      That's true and practically every statement made in an ad aimed at the general public should be taken with just as many buckets full of salt grains. If an ad for a lab oscilloscope were made that way, nobody would ever buy it.
  - dboreham 7y ago
    In a marketing context it never meant that, same as "satisfaction guaranteed" doesn't mean what you expect. It really means "product has a fixed price with vendor defined service level" vs "defined service level and variable price according to usage". "Unmetered" might be a reasonable shorthand.
    - agildehaus 7y ago
      Oh, it's totally metered.
- digianarchist 7y ago
  This isn't as bad as the recent campaign by Rogers in Canada for their "infinite" package. https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/06/13/rogers-unlimited-infinite-plans-now-available/ https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/06/13/rogers-unlimited-infinite... Taking a page from Freedom Mobile, the new plans offer ‘unlimited’ data in that they don’t include data overage fees. Instead, once subscribers go over their monthly data allotment, Rogers caps their data speeds at 256Kbps until the start of their next billing cycle. 10GB full speed.
lightgreen 7y ago
Because they don't specify what would be the network speed after 22Gb limit reached, I suspect their "slower after" means they simply give traffic priority to those who haven't consumed their 22Gb. So it will be equally fast if only a few people use the service (e. g. outside of populous areas), and much slower otherwise. So it's not like they are going to have their network underloaded just to squeeze more money from customers. If that hypothesis is true, it does not sound that bad.
- Sodman 7y ago
  For their original plan, the "slower after" was capped at 256 kb/s, it's not clear if the same applies to the unlimited plan.
- zamadatix 7y ago
  > So it's not like they are going to have their network underloaded just to squeeze more money from customers. Of course they are, why wouldn't they? It's not like it's any worse than any other "unlimited" plan you can get and giving out 10x more usage at 0x more cost isn't helping their margins while trying to get heavy users to pay per gig is.
- itake 7y ago
  > So it will be equally fast if only a few people use the service (e. g. outside of populous areas), and much slower otherwise. Since Google isn't actually deploying the cell networks and they actually use a mixed set of providers, I am not sure if this assumption makes sense. If the mobile network T-Mobile is overloaded with T-Mobile customers and has a small fraction of Google ones, then Google will tell T-Mobile to throttle the customers that exceeded their contract limit?
- makeramen 7y ago
  from their FAQ: If you use more than 15 GB of data in a cycle on the Fi Flexible plan or more than 22 GB in a cycle on the Fi Unlimited plan (less than 1% of individual Fi users as of Jan. 2018), you'll experience slower speeds (256 kbps) above those respective data thresholds until your next billing cycle begins. If you need significant amounts of high speed data, you can opt to pay $10/GB for the data you use past the data threshold for your plan in a given cycle (15GB for Flexible or 22GB for Unlimited). These data thresholds are based on individual data usage, not group data usage.
CamelCaseName 7y ago
>In smaller font: "each" >In even smaller font: "$150/mo" is finally explained That is really, truly, unfair. The font size choice is quite reasonable, and makes it easily readable. Here's what it would look like if the text was the same size: https://i.imgur.com/fTFlgHj.png https://i.imgur.com/fTFlgHj.png https://i.imgur.com/DCWpN9J.png https://i.imgur.com/DCWpN9J.png >"High-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after." is not unlimited data when the "slower after" speeds can barely load google's search page. It is, 'high-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after". Do we need to start throwing around a dictionary definition of the word unlimited? This is getting old... I use Freedom (previously known as Wind) in Canada, and their "slower speeds" on the unlimited plans are more than satisfactory. I don't even notice that I'm throttled until I check my text messages. As a result, I reach 12GB+ on my 6GB plan almost every month. So for me, their unlimited plan is very much unlimited.
- objektif 7y ago
  I am bot really sure what you are defending here. Unlimited means without limits. 22gb is a limit. I am glad 12gb is enough for you but its not for many.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- mehhh 7y ago
  You might not notice 256kbps throttling, but most people will. Youtube stops working right, Bandcamp, Pandora & Spotify buffer, and browsing the web or navigating takes a bit to load. The top couple percent of T-Mobile USA users use over 50GB of data a month, mostly on unlimited plans without hard throttles. An "unlimited" plan that hard throttles at 22GB of usage is decietful given this context, hence all other carriers not using hard throttles on Unlimited plans. All 4 major US carriers would brand this plan as a 22GB plan with no overages.
  - tw04 7y ago
    >All 4 major US carriers would brand this plan as a 22GB plan with no overages. What are you smoking? Every one of Verizon's plans that have caps identical to this are "unlimited" https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/unlimited/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/unlimited/
andreygrehov 7y ago
You forgot the + taxes & gov't fees part, which will make the final bill somewhere between $165 and $180.
- smsm42 7y ago
  That's another dark pattern. It's not like they don't know what the taxes and the fees are. They have the system that has exact amount of fees for every zip code in the US. Otherwise they couldn't bill you. Just ask for the zip code and give proper price. But no, that would make that nice $50 into ugly $180. TMobile gets it right - their price is final, what you see is what you pay.
  - bubblethink 7y ago
    That's a very US specific thing. There are different interest groups for or against taxes across different states that I doubt it would change any time soon. I would love for all advertised prices to be the final price (or very close based on reasonable estimates), but such a law would never get broad support. Taxes are such a taboo in the US that the government can't even offer free income tax returns.
    - smsm42 7y ago
      Yes, so I can see how it can be hard for a small shop owner or a family restaurant to update their menus every time. But telecom vendor has these all implemented in their billing system anyway, and if there's a company that wouldn't have problem with either technical aspects nor budget to make their site show true price, that company is Google. They totally could do it if they wanted, they just prefer to post misleading prices because people allow them to get away with it.
    - angry_octet 7y ago
      Not so much a taboo for the public as a taboo for special interest group money. But it just needs a campaign to show that advertizing without tax makes taxes invisible, because you just pay it and gripe after, vs tax included and you change your purchase decision because it is too much money. Every jurisdiction I've been in that charges a consumption tax requires it be shown on the receipt, regardless of whether it was advertised as inc or ex tax.
pilif 7y ago
> Do we need to start throwing around a dictionary definition of the word unlimited? A colleague of mine was told by a Swiss mobile phone provider that "unlimited" was a technical term meaning 5GB.
- angry_octet 7y ago
  Ha ha, must have been swisscom? The salt unlimited, IME, was pretty unlimited. CHF45 (~USD45) per month unlimited.
  - pilif 7y ago
    It was years ago when Salt was still Orange.
- marc3842h 7y ago
  I've had months where I used over 100 gigs on Salt's unlimited plan. I also have a co-worker who does the same with their Sunrise subscription, all without a problem. Within Switzerland all major carriers (Swisscom, Sunrise & Salt) have no data cap on their unlimited subscriptions. On their Unlimited Europe subscriptions both Swisscom & Sunrise are capped at 40gb/month (while still being advertised as "unlimited"). Only Salt is truely unlimited there.
kalleboo 7y ago
I was trying to find how slow the throttled speed was in their FAQ and came across this gorgeous piece of language: "Note that speeds may be optimized once an individual surpasses 15 GB of data usage on the Fi Flexible plan and 22 GB of data usage on the Fi Unlimited plan" "speeds may be optimized"??? Optimized for who?
- classified 7y ago
  If the Chinese government were to ask that question they would probably get an answer. Mere mortals don't get answers from Google.
dzhiurgis 7y ago
What’s up with magic number of 22? NZ has that year ago when these plans started to appear, but has been bumped to over 30gb now. Still rip off compared to European prices/offers (€25 for actually unlimited).
nobrains 7y ago
The advertising rule should be that all font size should be the same, including the terms and conditions and small-text.
agumonkey 7y ago
I think it's funny actually. It's probably a good parallel to human nature. We want to see big attractive signs and believe there are no fine prints and even if they're here most won't really read them.
tempodox 7y ago
Vendors of telecommunication services seem to be the worst offenders when it comes to “creative” interpretations of common terms. The bigger the font the more skeptical you should be. Always read the fine print.
cmroanirgo 7y ago
My plan (in Oz): $45 (AUD)/mo 50GB. So that works out as $30 USD/mo for 50GB. It looks like Google Fi needs to work harder to be able to break into the Oz market (if it had any inclination to).
GlitchMr 7y ago
Assuming you use the bandwidth all the time, you have 256kbps speed, which effectively means at most 82GB transfer (and that's assuming the connection is used all the time, 24 hours in a day, which isn't gonna happen). So, I guess unlimited means 100GB, and that's the best-case scenario. Okay then?
bash-j 7y ago
They wouldn't be able to use the term unlimited in Australia if there are limitations. Executives that approve misleading advertisements can be personally fined. https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/telcos-on-notice-about-false-and-misleading-advertising https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/telcos-on-notice-about...
smoyer 7y ago
Does anyone believe the "talk to a human anytime" part? As you said ... It's Google!

scblock 7y ago

Yep. Looks like garbage to me. Someday "unlimited" will mean it, but right now it's just code for "actually quite limited but written in small print." I'll pass.

ratsimihah 7y ago
Unlimited used to mean unlimited.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Now it means “caveat emptor.”
  - tempodox 7y ago
    That's true and practically every statement made in an ad aimed at the general public should be taken with just as many buckets full of salt grains. If an ad for a lab oscilloscope were made that way, nobody would ever buy it.
- dboreham 7y ago
  In a marketing context it never meant that, same as "satisfaction guaranteed" doesn't mean what you expect. It really means "product has a fixed price with vendor defined service level" vs "defined service level and variable price according to usage". "Unmetered" might be a reasonable shorthand.
  - agildehaus 7y ago
    Oh, it's totally metered.
digianarchist 7y ago
This isn't as bad as the recent campaign by Rogers in Canada for their "infinite" package. https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/06/13/rogers-unlimited-infinite-plans-now-available/ https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/06/13/rogers-unlimited-infinite... Taking a page from Freedom Mobile, the new plans offer ‘unlimited’ data in that they don’t include data overage fees. Instead, once subscribers go over their monthly data allotment, Rogers caps their data speeds at 256Kbps until the start of their next billing cycle. 10GB full speed.

lightgreen 7y ago

Because they don't specify what would be the network speed after 22Gb limit reached, I suspect their "slower after" means they simply give traffic priority to those who haven't consumed their 22Gb. So it will be equally fast if only a few people use the service (e. g. outside of populous areas), and much slower otherwise. So it's not like they are going to have their network underloaded just to squeeze more money from customers. If that hypothesis is true, it does not sound that bad.

Sodman 7y ago
For their original plan, the "slower after" was capped at 256 kb/s, it's not clear if the same applies to the unlimited plan.
zamadatix 7y ago
> So it's not like they are going to have their network underloaded just to squeeze more money from customers. Of course they are, why wouldn't they? It's not like it's any worse than any other "unlimited" plan you can get and giving out 10x more usage at 0x more cost isn't helping their margins while trying to get heavy users to pay per gig is.
itake 7y ago
> So it will be equally fast if only a few people use the service (e. g. outside of populous areas), and much slower otherwise. Since Google isn't actually deploying the cell networks and they actually use a mixed set of providers, I am not sure if this assumption makes sense. If the mobile network T-Mobile is overloaded with T-Mobile customers and has a small fraction of Google ones, then Google will tell T-Mobile to throttle the customers that exceeded their contract limit?
makeramen 7y ago
from their FAQ: If you use more than 15 GB of data in a cycle on the Fi Flexible plan or more than 22 GB in a cycle on the Fi Unlimited plan (less than 1% of individual Fi users as of Jan. 2018), you'll experience slower speeds (256 kbps) above those respective data thresholds until your next billing cycle begins. If you need significant amounts of high speed data, you can opt to pay $10/GB for the data you use past the data threshold for your plan in a given cycle (15GB for Flexible or 22GB for Unlimited). These data thresholds are based on individual data usage, not group data usage.

CamelCaseName 7y ago

>In smaller font: "each" >In even smaller font: "$150/mo" is finally explained That is really, truly, unfair. The font size choice is quite reasonable, and makes it easily readable. Here's what it would look like if the text was the same size: https://i.imgur.com/fTFlgHj.png https://i.imgur.com/fTFlgHj.png https://i.imgur.com/DCWpN9J.png https://i.imgur.com/DCWpN9J.png >"High-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after." is not unlimited data when the "slower after" speeds can barely load google's search page. It is, 'high-speed data up to 22 GB/person & slower after". Do we need to start throwing around a dictionary definition of the word unlimited? This is getting old... I use Freedom (previously known as Wind) in Canada, and their "slower speeds" on the unlimited plans are more than satisfactory. I don't even notice that I'm throttled until I check my text messages. As a result, I reach 12GB+ on my 6GB plan almost every month. So for me, their unlimited plan is very much unlimited.

objektif 7y ago
I am bot really sure what you are defending here. Unlimited means without limits. 22gb is a limit. I am glad 12gb is enough for you but its not for many.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mehhh 7y ago
You might not notice 256kbps throttling, but most people will. Youtube stops working right, Bandcamp, Pandora & Spotify buffer, and browsing the web or navigating takes a bit to load. The top couple percent of T-Mobile USA users use over 50GB of data a month, mostly on unlimited plans without hard throttles. An "unlimited" plan that hard throttles at 22GB of usage is decietful given this context, hence all other carriers not using hard throttles on Unlimited plans. All 4 major US carriers would brand this plan as a 22GB plan with no overages.
- tw04 7y ago
  >All 4 major US carriers would brand this plan as a 22GB plan with no overages. What are you smoking? Every one of Verizon's plans that have caps identical to this are "unlimited" https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/unlimited/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/unlimited/

andreygrehov 7y ago

You forgot the + taxes & gov't fees part, which will make the final bill somewhere between $165 and $180.

smsm42 7y ago
That's another dark pattern. It's not like they don't know what the taxes and the fees are. They have the system that has exact amount of fees for every zip code in the US. Otherwise they couldn't bill you. Just ask for the zip code and give proper price. But no, that would make that nice $50 into ugly $180. TMobile gets it right - their price is final, what you see is what you pay.
- bubblethink 7y ago
  That's a very US specific thing. There are different interest groups for or against taxes across different states that I doubt it would change any time soon. I would love for all advertised prices to be the final price (or very close based on reasonable estimates), but such a law would never get broad support. Taxes are such a taboo in the US that the government can't even offer free income tax returns.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    Yes, so I can see how it can be hard for a small shop owner or a family restaurant to update their menus every time. But telecom vendor has these all implemented in their billing system anyway, and if there's a company that wouldn't have problem with either technical aspects nor budget to make their site show true price, that company is Google. They totally could do it if they wanted, they just prefer to post misleading prices because people allow them to get away with it.
  - angry_octet 7y ago
    Not so much a taboo for the public as a taboo for special interest group money. But it just needs a campaign to show that advertizing without tax makes taxes invisible, because you just pay it and gripe after, vs tax included and you change your purchase decision because it is too much money. Every jurisdiction I've been in that charges a consumption tax requires it be shown on the receipt, regardless of whether it was advertised as inc or ex tax.

pilif 7y ago

> Do we need to start throwing around a dictionary definition of the word unlimited? A colleague of mine was told by a Swiss mobile phone provider that "unlimited" was a technical term meaning 5GB.

angry_octet 7y ago
Ha ha, must have been swisscom? The salt unlimited, IME, was pretty unlimited. CHF45 (~USD45) per month unlimited.
- pilif 7y ago
  It was years ago when Salt was still Orange.
marc3842h 7y ago
I've had months where I used over 100 gigs on Salt's unlimited plan. I also have a co-worker who does the same with their Sunrise subscription, all without a problem. Within Switzerland all major carriers (Swisscom, Sunrise & Salt) have no data cap on their unlimited subscriptions. On their Unlimited Europe subscriptions both Swisscom & Sunrise are capped at 40gb/month (while still being advertised as "unlimited"). Only Salt is truely unlimited there.

kalleboo 7y ago

I was trying to find how slow the throttled speed was in their FAQ and came across this gorgeous piece of language: "Note that speeds may be optimized once an individual surpasses 15 GB of data usage on the Fi Flexible plan and 22 GB of data usage on the Fi Unlimited plan" "speeds may be optimized"??? Optimized for who?

classified 7y ago
If the Chinese government were to ask that question they would probably get an answer. Mere mortals don't get answers from Google.

dzhiurgis 7y ago

What’s up with magic number of 22? NZ has that year ago when these plans started to appear, but has been bumped to over 30gb now. Still rip off compared to European prices/offers (€25 for actually unlimited).

nobrains 7y ago

The advertising rule should be that all font size should be the same, including the terms and conditions and small-text.

agumonkey 7y ago

I think it's funny actually. It's probably a good parallel to human nature. We want to see big attractive signs and believe there are no fine prints and even if they're here most won't really read them.

tempodox 7y ago

Vendors of telecommunication services seem to be the worst offenders when it comes to “creative” interpretations of common terms. The bigger the font the more skeptical you should be. Always read the fine print.

cmroanirgo 7y ago

My plan (in Oz): $45 (AUD)/mo 50GB. So that works out as $30 USD/mo for 50GB. It looks like Google Fi needs to work harder to be able to break into the Oz market (if it had any inclination to).

GlitchMr 7y ago

Assuming you use the bandwidth all the time, you have 256kbps speed, which effectively means at most 82GB transfer (and that's assuming the connection is used all the time, 24 hours in a day, which isn't gonna happen). So, I guess unlimited means 100GB, and that's the best-case scenario. Okay then?

bash-j 7y ago

They wouldn't be able to use the term unlimited in Australia if there are limitations. Executives that approve misleading advertisements can be personally fined. https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/telcos-on-notice-about-false-and-misleading-advertising https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/telcos-on-notice-about...

smoyer 7y ago

Does anyone believe the "talk to a human anytime" part? As you said ... It's Google!