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Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was

Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was just a thought experiment.

Retric 7y ago
As long as every local connection is encrypted/password protected you should be fine. Unfortunately, outside of rural areas that may not be under your control.
- SteveNuts 7y ago
  How would encryption help in this case? If the TV connects to open wifi opportunistically it will still be sending data to the internet you don't want it to, encrypted or not.
  - wtallis 7y ago
    I think he may have meant that if all available APs are using encryption, then you don't have to worry about your TV automatically connecting.
    - SteveNuts 7y ago
      Yeah I guess that makes sense. But a neighbor that turns on an open wifi hotspot would be all it takes for the TV to connect for a bit. It's not something that should just be left up to chance, but I also don't know of a good solution other than regulation.
      - wtallis 7y ago
        Savvy users can probably open up the back of the TV and unplug the antenna cables, though that will tend to make manufacturers disagreeable should you ever seek warranty service.
  - Retric 7y ago
    WiFi standard password protects encrypted networks. If the router can’t login and you don’t connect Ethernet it’s not connected to the internet.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Not every network requires a password.
      - Retric 7y ago
        Encrypted ones do, at least every commercial version these TV’s would be able to use. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup Is the closest thing to an exception that I know of but still required user action to connect, and it’s been deprecated for a long time. Some enterprise systems don’t require users to enter passwords, but the software still uses them internally when talking to the network. PS: Unless you know of some other exception?
        saagarjha 7y ago
        Nothing’s stopping TVs from hopping on unencrypted networks.
        anticensor 7y ago
        Or even from silently bruteforcing passwords.
        Retric 7y ago
        WiFi has limited range, so some people have control over what local networks exist.
- phreack 7y ago
  At some point we should stop making compromises like this and demand offer of dumb TVs that won't spy on every single thing you do in the privacy of your home.
topspin 7y ago
> Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? Yes, you can be sure. The network capabilities aren't hidden spy equipment. You can disable WiFi and simply not connect Ethernet. The market for your data is relying on the indifference of 99% of TV buyers to data collection. Manufacturers and advertisers -- at least those not too far down the grey market rabbit hole -- don't care enough about the tiny fraction of people that actively thwart this collection activity to employ some sort of legally dubious super sekrit network capability to capture your precious data.
- mopsi 7y ago
  Network connection can also be shared by devices over HDMI. It was introduced with v1.4 spec in 2009 and runs at 100 Mbps. Pin 13 of HDMI connector has to be broken or covered with tape to ensure no connectivity.
- lrem 7y ago
  > and simply not connect Ethernet Ethernet over HDMI is a thing, isn't it?
  - kevin_b_er 7y ago
    The other end of HDMI would need to offer a network connection for that to be real. Also its so poorly supported it might as well not be a thing. Noone implements it and it isn't just a "there's Ethernet wires in the HDMI cable", it uses some multi-purpose pins that both ends have to agree to use.
  - topspin 7y ago
    If anyone ever actually builds a TV that supports it* then the list of things one must actively disable will have grown all the way to two. Again, not hidden spy equipment; no reason to wonder whether your TV is secretly communicating with someone. * https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/325215/appletv-ethernet-over-hdmi https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/325215/appletv-eth...
- takeda 7y ago
  I would imagine that a large percentage (especially older people) won't configure wifi either, so the motivation to use open hotspot (especially that it doesn't take that much effort to implement it) is actually higher.

Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was just a thought experiment.

Retric 7y ago

As long as every local connection is encrypted/password protected you should be fine. Unfortunately, outside of rural areas that may not be under your control.

SteveNuts 7y ago
How would encryption help in this case? If the TV connects to open wifi opportunistically it will still be sending data to the internet you don't want it to, encrypted or not.
- wtallis 7y ago
  I think he may have meant that if all available APs are using encryption, then you don't have to worry about your TV automatically connecting.
  - SteveNuts 7y ago
    Yeah I guess that makes sense. But a neighbor that turns on an open wifi hotspot would be all it takes for the TV to connect for a bit. It's not something that should just be left up to chance, but I also don't know of a good solution other than regulation.
    - wtallis 7y ago
      Savvy users can probably open up the back of the TV and unplug the antenna cables, though that will tend to make manufacturers disagreeable should you ever seek warranty service.
- Retric 7y ago
  WiFi standard password protects encrypted networks. If the router can’t login and you don’t connect Ethernet it’s not connected to the internet.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Not every network requires a password.
    - Retric 7y ago
      Encrypted ones do, at least every commercial version these TV’s would be able to use. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup Is the closest thing to an exception that I know of but still required user action to connect, and it’s been deprecated for a long time. Some enterprise systems don’t require users to enter passwords, but the software still uses them internally when talking to the network. PS: Unless you know of some other exception?
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Nothing’s stopping TVs from hopping on unencrypted networks.
        anticensor 7y ago
        Or even from silently bruteforcing passwords.
        Retric 7y ago
        WiFi has limited range, so some people have control over what local networks exist.
phreack 7y ago
At some point we should stop making compromises like this and demand offer of dumb TVs that won't spy on every single thing you do in the privacy of your home.

topspin 7y ago

> Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? Yes, you can be sure. The network capabilities aren't hidden spy equipment. You can disable WiFi and simply not connect Ethernet. The market for your data is relying on the indifference of 99% of TV buyers to data collection. Manufacturers and advertisers -- at least those not too far down the grey market rabbit hole -- don't care enough about the tiny fraction of people that actively thwart this collection activity to employ some sort of legally dubious super sekrit network capability to capture your precious data.

mopsi 7y ago
Network connection can also be shared by devices over HDMI. It was introduced with v1.4 spec in 2009 and runs at 100 Mbps. Pin 13 of HDMI connector has to be broken or covered with tape to ensure no connectivity.
lrem 7y ago
> and simply not connect Ethernet Ethernet over HDMI is a thing, isn't it?
- kevin_b_er 7y ago
  The other end of HDMI would need to offer a network connection for that to be real. Also its so poorly supported it might as well not be a thing. Noone implements it and it isn't just a "there's Ethernet wires in the HDMI cable", it uses some multi-purpose pins that both ends have to agree to use.
- topspin 7y ago
  If anyone ever actually builds a TV that supports it* then the list of things one must actively disable will have grown all the way to two. Again, not hidden spy equipment; no reason to wonder whether your TV is secretly communicating with someone. * https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/325215/appletv-ethernet-over-hdmi https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/325215/appletv-eth...
takeda 7y ago
I would imagine that a large percentage (especially older people) won't configure wifi either, so the motivation to use open hotspot (especially that it doesn't take that much effort to implement it) is actually higher.