6 ms·

Just curious, why? For example, if one wants to enjoy Picasso's paintings without getting bothered about how he treated people in his life, it is their choice,

Just curious, why? For example, if one wants to enjoy Picasso's paintings without getting bothered about how he treated people in his life, it is their choice, isn't it? If someone wants to concentrate only on the tech and ignore the rest, that is also their choice, isn't it? Not saying one view is better or worse than the other. Simply pointing out people choose to get involved at different levels...

mantoto 7y ago
I personally try to avoid art from pedophiles and murderer and rapists. I argue that art always happens in context and one context is who did it. Appreating art from someone who is clearly hurting others can't have done something so important to me to still enjoy it. If a case is made which has some very rare and difficult scenario I'm not sure what I would do.
- lostjohnny 7y ago
  You should never come to Rome then...
  - magduf 7y ago
    Probably Greece too, or any other ancient place.
- toyg 7y ago
  > I personally try to avoid art from pedophiles and murderer Guess you avoid Caravaggio too, then.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    Sooo you mean Michelangelo right? At least on Wikipedia there it is stated that there is no proper source. Also I try to. If it is very significant part of history I would try to be aware of it and still have a look. I'm also very unsure about Alice in wonderland for the same reason. But at least it's not someone still alive which would benefit from his/her art and being pedo right?
- rnernento 7y ago
  I hope you're also avoiding any sort of medical treatment pioneered by people with questionable histories. Or any medical treatment derived from research pioneered by people with questionable histories. That would be problematic.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    This decision was made by others. I'm not in a position to research the history of alledical procedures. It is much easier for me to avoid art though.
    - rnernento 7y ago
      "It is much easier for me to avoid art though." Pretty much sums it up doesn't it.
- akamaozu 7y ago
  What about non-art? Do yo actively avoid using technology invented or heavily influenced by problematic people?
  - mantoto 7y ago
    Do you have a proper relevant example?
    - akamaozu 7y ago
      I don't have a proper example. I don't have the same reservations about using the work of problematic people, so I don't typically check for that info. Off the top of my head, an example might be accepting opiods to manage pain, despite the tons of damage pushing the drugs has caused Americans as a whole.
- trax 7y ago
  You've written this in English, the language that Jack the Ripper used. Why do you support violence against women, HMMMMMMM?????
- mapcars 7y ago
  But why you decided to put a line on a person? The surroundings, the social situation, the political situation, the nature, whole universe is a context of everything.
- falcolas 7y ago
  What are your thoughts on the philosophy of Ghandi? A man who tested his devoutness by sleeping next to a 12 year old girl.
  - mantoto 7y ago
    I know not much about him and would need to read up on him to make a proper thought. Not sure why I would do that. Ghandi doesn't really affect s my life
- benj111 7y ago
  Is art necessarily about enjoyment? Should we not try to understand, if only to try an prevent it in the future? I think theres a debate to be had over whether they should profit from those actions though. Also keep in mind that Homosexuality was put in the same box as paedophilia and rape ( probably worse than rape). Social mores change, and are different from country to country. The girl involved was 17 as I understand it, which would be over the age of consent in my country.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Sex trafficking was involved, so the age of consent is legally higher.
    - benj111 7y ago
      Again in my country (UK) the age of consent doesn't vary, sex trafficking is illegal in its own right. So this still wouldn't be paedophilia, rather it would be rape. My point is I could have consensual sex with a 17 year old, paint a picture and the GP would be happy to view it(?). You could have sex with a 17 year old, get arrested for paedophilia, paint a picture, and the GP would not be happy viewing it. Theres a legal line and a moral line both can change so its weird getting absolutist about it. To be clear I wasn't aware of the sex trafficking element, I thought this was a question of statutory rape, which would seem to yield very different legal answers based on location. Edit: 'Interestingly' I seemed to have circled around to making the same point RMS made. Except I'm not denying the rape, and I'm not a representative for another organisation.
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        The same is true in the USA, sex trafficking is always illegal, but the additional charge of rape will be added if the provider is under 18. Think of it as an add-on that makes the crime worse. This whole thread has gotten side tracked on statutory rape, when in reality the criminal charges hinge on sex trafficking with age only as a modifier.
ryguytilidie 7y ago
I think it's pretty disingenuous to equate how political paintings are to how political technology is.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Have a look at your local paper's political cartoon, and tell me how apolitical art is.
- globuous 7y ago
  The you don’t understand art nor technology :(
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
We are still enjoying Stallman’s software, right? I cant imagine we’re going to eradicate gcc and Emacs from mainstream development.

mantoto 7y ago

I personally try to avoid art from pedophiles and murderer and rapists. I argue that art always happens in context and one context is who did it. Appreating art from someone who is clearly hurting others can't have done something so important to me to still enjoy it. If a case is made which has some very rare and difficult scenario I'm not sure what I would do.

lostjohnny 7y ago
You should never come to Rome then...
- magduf 7y ago
  Probably Greece too, or any other ancient place.
toyg 7y ago
> I personally try to avoid art from pedophiles and murderer Guess you avoid Caravaggio too, then.
- mantoto 7y ago
  Sooo you mean Michelangelo right? At least on Wikipedia there it is stated that there is no proper source. Also I try to. If it is very significant part of history I would try to be aware of it and still have a look. I'm also very unsure about Alice in wonderland for the same reason. But at least it's not someone still alive which would benefit from his/her art and being pedo right?
rnernento 7y ago
I hope you're also avoiding any sort of medical treatment pioneered by people with questionable histories. Or any medical treatment derived from research pioneered by people with questionable histories. That would be problematic.
- mantoto 7y ago
  This decision was made by others. I'm not in a position to research the history of alledical procedures. It is much easier for me to avoid art though.
  - rnernento 7y ago
    "It is much easier for me to avoid art though." Pretty much sums it up doesn't it.
akamaozu 7y ago
What about non-art? Do yo actively avoid using technology invented or heavily influenced by problematic people?
- mantoto 7y ago
  Do you have a proper relevant example?
  - akamaozu 7y ago
    I don't have a proper example. I don't have the same reservations about using the work of problematic people, so I don't typically check for that info. Off the top of my head, an example might be accepting opiods to manage pain, despite the tons of damage pushing the drugs has caused Americans as a whole.
trax 7y ago
You've written this in English, the language that Jack the Ripper used. Why do you support violence against women, HMMMMMMM?????
mapcars 7y ago
But why you decided to put a line on a person? The surroundings, the social situation, the political situation, the nature, whole universe is a context of everything.
falcolas 7y ago
What are your thoughts on the philosophy of Ghandi? A man who tested his devoutness by sleeping next to a 12 year old girl.
- mantoto 7y ago
  I know not much about him and would need to read up on him to make a proper thought. Not sure why I would do that. Ghandi doesn't really affect s my life
benj111 7y ago
Is art necessarily about enjoyment? Should we not try to understand, if only to try an prevent it in the future? I think theres a debate to be had over whether they should profit from those actions though. Also keep in mind that Homosexuality was put in the same box as paedophilia and rape ( probably worse than rape). Social mores change, and are different from country to country. The girl involved was 17 as I understand it, which would be over the age of consent in my country.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Sex trafficking was involved, so the age of consent is legally higher.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Again in my country (UK) the age of consent doesn't vary, sex trafficking is illegal in its own right. So this still wouldn't be paedophilia, rather it would be rape. My point is I could have consensual sex with a 17 year old, paint a picture and the GP would be happy to view it(?). You could have sex with a 17 year old, get arrested for paedophilia, paint a picture, and the GP would not be happy viewing it. Theres a legal line and a moral line both can change so its weird getting absolutist about it. To be clear I wasn't aware of the sex trafficking element, I thought this was a question of statutory rape, which would seem to yield very different legal answers based on location. Edit: 'Interestingly' I seemed to have circled around to making the same point RMS made. Except I'm not denying the rape, and I'm not a representative for another organisation.
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      The same is true in the USA, sex trafficking is always illegal, but the additional charge of rape will be added if the provider is under 18. Think of it as an add-on that makes the crime worse. This whole thread has gotten side tracked on statutory rape, when in reality the criminal charges hinge on sex trafficking with age only as a modifier.

ryguytilidie 7y ago

I think it's pretty disingenuous to equate how political paintings are to how political technology is.

falcolas 7y ago
Have a look at your local paper's political cartoon, and tell me how apolitical art is.
globuous 7y ago
The you don’t understand art nor technology :(

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

We are still enjoying Stallman’s software, right? I cant imagine we’re going to eradicate gcc and Emacs from mainstream development.