17 ms·

Considering how shopping at Amazon now feels like shopping at an electronics bazaar in Singapore with giant bins of random knock-off products of suspicious qual

by Pxtl 7y ago

Considering how shopping at Amazon now feels like shopping at an electronics bazaar in Singapore with giant bins of random knock-off products of suspicious quality, tweaking the algo to push name-brand options (even if it's their own name-brand) would be a welcome move to me as a buyer. Obviously it's grossly unfair to their vendors, but from a strictly user-centric view it's an improvement. Otherwise, Amazon feels like AliExpress with faster shipping and better English.

helpPeople 7y ago
I've seen Amazon prices go up while Walmart Online has been cheaper for household items. On speciality electronics, I don't think anyone would be surprised to know Amazon is more expensive. It's an ancedote sure, but back in 2012, we shopped only at Amazon. Now they are no longer King.
- dmarlow 7y ago
  I too have noticed this. I recently bought a new keyboard and mouse and got them both at best buy for cheaper.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    When I spilled water on my keyboard, I actually walked into a Fry's and got a better deal than anything online, for a genuine Microsoft keyboard.
    - zucked 7y ago
      I've noticed this on many occasions in the last month. I bought a mouse that Amazon had listed for $39. I walked a block and bought it from Office De/Max for $10 cheaper. I wanted to get a sweater shaver. Amazon had it for 22. I bought a NIB one from Ebay for $12. As far as I am concerned, the only thing Amazon has going for it right now is that it is a a one stop shop. That's worth something… how much? I'm not sure, but I know I'm buying a hell of a lot less stuff from Amazon now than 2 years ago.
    - nacs 7y ago
      Frys is one of the few retail places that consistently beats Amazon. I recently built a PC and almost every part was cheaper in Fry's than Amazon.
    - peteretep 7y ago
      > for a genuine Microsoft keyboard Also you knew it was Genuine. I'd love Amazon to do a "Guaranteed Genuine" label or something, but I can see why they don't. I used to buy everything on Amazon, now I only buy stuff that I'm willing to accept might be counterfeit.
- chenster 7y ago
  With Amazon, you sit your butts at home and get what you want without getting stuck in traffic and waiting in line to check out in-store just to get a $20 keyboard. Nevertheless, it remains questionable how this change would be a fair competition for Amazon sellers, not just the Alibaba private label sellers but also all the sellers with popular products.
  - the_duke 7y ago
    You missed the "Online" part of "Walmart Online".
  - untog 7y ago
    Amazon is far from unique there. As the OP says, Walmart has a sturdy online offering, though it also relies on "marketplace" sellers. I've started ordering a lot of online stuff from Target and I've been very happy with it. Cheap shipping and reliable quality.
- avgDev 7y ago
  I think Amazon can be quickly replaced. I was attracted to Amazon only because of lower prices. That was it and now it is no longer the case. As soon as another big player steps up and offers lower prices and simple UI there won't be a need for me to shop on Amazon.
  - nacs 7y ago
    Except its not just the lower prices that are important -- the quick order processing and shipping are a huge reason why Amazon is succeeding. Living near a metro area, I can get items from Amazon items within 24-48 hours (with Prime). Sometimes it even arrives later the same day. Plus the whole free shipping (as long as you're Prime) thing..
    - avgDev 7y ago
      The free shipping is weird....I recently noticed that my father was looking up something he wanted me to order for him....his price was less, same item and amazon seller. I logged in and boom my price was $3 higher on a 20 dollar item. So, I'm not sure how "free" the shipping is anymore. I do agree that fast shipping is a big part of amazon but I think another big player could match the processing speed.
      - LordDragonfang 7y ago
        Amazon has multiple sellers with different shipping options and prices for most items, and always tries to show you the best "deal". This sometimes includes the likelihood that you prefer the two-day shipping. The listing being offered to you father probably wasn't eligible for prime (not shipped by Amazon) so the price+shipping was lower than Amazon's price+non-free-shipping (and the third party was likely intentionally undercutting Amazon to be shown first). Once you signed it, it offered you the one with prime shipping because the total was cheaper.
        avgDev 7y ago
        Same seller Amazon.
password1 7y ago
> Otherwise, Amazon feels like AliExpress with faster shipping and better English. It literally is. All these products are cheap stuff that marketers find on aliexpress. They buy them in bulk, stamp a logo on it, import in the US/EU, stock in logistic centers and then sell on Amazon. It's the same stuff, but it comes from an English seller and a warehouse in US/EU. It's exactly the same thing that Amazon does with its product lines though (like Amazon Basics), so not really rooting for their own name-brands either.
- muddi900 7y ago
  Amazon analytics firms(JungleScout etc) specifically offer direct search to Alibaba from their apps, for private-labelling
- jastanton 7y ago
  The one difference is that the Amazon Basics products seem to have a quality bar higher than the other random re-labeled products.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    They recalled a quarter million power banks because they were catching fire. Everybody uses the same factories and Amazon doesn't have better quality control than anyone else.
    - VBprogrammer 7y ago
      To be fair, Samsung had to scrap a whole phone model because of battery problems. The Boeing 787 suffered with problems of batteries catching fire (and according to some reports still does). It's a tricky problem to avoid.
      - ikeboy 7y ago
        Anecdotally I've spoken to people who compete with Amazon private label in electronics and they tell me Amazon doesn't care about quality, and that the factories they were buying from were known to be lower quality. I've also heard the opposite about Anker - that they always get the best quality.
seattlebarley 7y ago
Eh, I just don't agree with this at all. It's pretty easy to use filters in your search to find what you want.
MisterTea 7y ago
Amazon's reputation is pretty damaged in my eyes. I have rarely used them for electronics anymore as you can't trust anything. Even at work we used prime to buy certain items and I stopped it. Example: Last week two symbol barcode scanners used in the erp system died. I look up the same model on newegg and see that sold and shipped by newegg it was about $120. Amazon had multiple listing in the $60 range and checking reviews I see things like "died in two weeks", FAKE, "died and returned to symbol only for them to say it was a fake and they were refused service or replacement". How do you build trust with shenanigans like that? No thanks, Newegg got my money. Amazon seems to be playing oblivious to all this mainly because people are STILL using them. So as long as they are making money they can afford to lose a few "picky" customers here and there. The rest are happy to buy trash because they save a buck. Capitalism at its finest.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  Sadly Newegg is following in Amazon's footsteps with it's affiliate program. You have to choose Newegg as the seller or you run into the same issues. As soon as Newegg starts mingling stock like Amazon does, then we'll have to go back to big box retailers to ensure we're getting the item we're paying for.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    Small nitpick, but what you are referring to is not an affiliate program. An affiliate program is where a website gets a cut of the sales for providing links to a retailer's site. So, The Wirecutter makes money by using affiliate links to Amazon and other retailers on their product review articles.
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      Yeah you're right. I'm not sure what the correct term is.
      - toasterlovin 7y ago
        I'm not sure either, tbh. Perhaps 'marketplace' or 'platform'.
sokoloff 7y ago
It’s odd to me to think that something which is user-centric could be “grossly unfair” to vendors. If you view vendors on the platform as existing to serve the users (as I do), the contradiction evaporates. If you view users as existing to serve the vendors, then it’s possible.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  Something can be unfair to vendors in a way which is bad for consumers. Amazon's own products might be, for example, more expensive or worse quality.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    That would then not be user-centric.
    - papln 7y ago
      But it also would not be begging the question. One should not assume that "good for Amazon" is always user-centric.
- Pxtl 7y ago
  I'm mostly referring to established companies that have reputations as-good-or-better-than AmazonBasics and I would be more than happy to see them in the same premium position.
- _jal 7y ago
  There are things known as two-sided marketplaces. This isn't novel; malls and similar have existed for a very long time. I get that US culture is heavy on "the customer is always right"[1], etc. but two-sided markets don't exist without recognizing both sides. [1] In reality, that ends up being more of an employee control mechanism than a dedication to customers, but that's a different topic.
  - sk5t 7y ago
Certhas 7y ago
Still, they are the monopoly marketplace online. They should be doing _everything_ to avoid looking like they are abusing their monopoly position to muscle into other fields. The fact that they don't seem too bothered just seems to indicate to me that regulators are not prepared to act on them. Really the rule should simply be that if you operate a market place you can't sell on it. Full stop. Then we could simply be happy that amazon is finally improving it's search and/or the quality of its listings.
- sct202 7y ago
  I think a lot of people are missing the point that Amazon controls so much market share now that actions that aren't anti-competitive if you have 1% market share are when you control 50%+.
- calimac 7y ago
  Exactly, great point. All other arguments are moot. They have a monopoly. This is an example of abuse of power. The argument that they do it in the name of user experience is an example of the double speak of SV giants. This will not hold up under justice department scrutiny. I hope the tech giants are "brought to heel" as HRC would say.
- rock_hard 7y ago
  How is amazon a monopoly? Last time I checked there was a ocean of e-commerce stores on the internet all selling the same stuff
  - zaidf 7y ago
    When Microsoft got busted for being anti-competitive, you could still download Netscape Navigator and use it.
    - jedimastert 7y ago
      Anti-competitive behavior is different than having a monopoly
    - 7y ago
mattmcknight 7y ago
I'm done with buying stuff from third party sellers on Amazon. If the seller is not amazon.com, I am not buying from Amazon. Fulfilled by Amazon is not good enough. Unfortunately, the only way to get a seller option is to pick an item department. I wonder why they would bury such a useful feature. It should be a box you can tick for the whole site.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Some advice (from a company that sells our own products on Amazon): buy only from Amazon or the manufacturer. When buying from the manufacturer, look at the 1 and 2 star ratings. They will be the best barometer of product quality.
  - mattmcknight 7y ago
    Is there a reliable way of determining that the seller is the actual manufacturer and not a copy cat name?
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      In my opinion, it's pretty safe to assume that sellers misrepresenting themselves as the manufacturer won't last long on any platform. Manufacturers are all pretty aware of Amazon at this point.
- xenocyon 7y ago
  I think your comment illustrates exactly why this is a win-win for Amazon: on the one hand they take a cut out of (cheap, low-quality) third-party sellers on their platform; on the other, quality-conscious consumers like yourself simply filter for "sold by Amazon" instead of leaving for a non-Amazon website. So Amazon wins either way.
- tzs 7y ago
  Are items where the seller is Amazon immune from commingling [1]? [1] OT: I wondered why it is "commingling" instead of "comingling" (like "cohabitation"), or "colmingling" (like "collaboration"), "conmingling" (like "concur"), or "cormingling" (like "correlation"), so looked up the rule. The com-, co-, col-, con-, and cor- prefixes all mean "together". Which is used generally follows this rule: "Com- is used before b, m, p, also occasionally before vowels and f. The following variant forms occur: co- especially before vowels, h, and gn; col- before l; cor- before r; and con- before other consonants". See https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/com- https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/com-
momokoko 7y ago
At this point, anecdotally, it feels as though the top comment on almost every article I see on HN about Amazon is some variation of this complaint. Has anyone done any analysis on the HN posting dataset to see if that happens to be the case? And if that is the case, does anyone have any insight into why that might be?
- VRay 7y ago
  Amazon used to have the best service, best quality products, and best prices, so practically every HN user loved them. Now they're wavering on all three of those fronts, and I guess that fact really bothers most of us
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Amazon used to have the best service, best quality products, and best prices They used to usually have the best prices on the products they had, and the widest selection of products. They didn't always have the best quality products (which were sometimes exclusive to non-Amazon channels), and outside of return policy (which was very generous, probably specifically to cover all the other glitches) their service was nothing special at its best. Let's not view past Amazon through rose-colored glasses.
  - momokoko 7y ago
    I'm not disagreeing with the premise that Amazon has issues. But I do not see a similar pattern with other companies and services. Of course, this is anecdotal, but it does seem significantly higher with Amazon itself. It is possibly that most HN users purchase a lot via Amazon? Is it a small but vocal group of HN users that have a grudge because they had an unsuccessful drop shipping operation that was harmed via Amazon? Is there some competitor(ie. Walmart) that is trying to push an agenda? It just seems high compared to other services, so I'm curious into additional insight into why Amazon, specifically, has this pattern when other services with issues do not. I personally feel like it may just be that most HN users are, or were, heavy purchasers from Amazon. But I'm just looking to see if maybe there is a more insightful take on things.
snarf21 7y ago
I think the big changed needed on Amazon is the "Seller". With their commingling of all products with the same SKU, "seller" is an irrelevant term. If people could review actual sellers, it could put a dent in the knock-offs. I'm not sure if there are just enough people who can't tell the difference or don't want the trouble of returning it to make this a profitable strategy for everyone.
- specialist 7y ago
  What does commingling mean? In real world terms? I ask because I'm unclear if shared SKU is a physical thing, a logical implementation detail, or some mix. Is there a bin full of white 3' USB cables of the same type, regardless of supplier? I had the impression that fulfillment centers weren't organized by product. Everything is everywhere. The robots retrieve the bins of whatever from wherever for the pickers to grab from. If this is mostly true, I'm not clear how similar white 3' USB cables get commingled.
  - dannyw 7y ago
    Correct. Fulfilment is UPC based and independent of seller, for all FBA products.
    - vinay_ys 7y ago
      This doesn't sound right. Even if two different sellers are selling the exact same brand manufactured product (say, an Android Phone), via FBA, when a customer buys from seller1, they should get the Item1 which was actually supplied to FBA by Seller1. They cannot get Item2 which was supplied by Seller2. When the customer returns the Item1 for manufacturing defect etc reasons, it has to go back to the Seller1. This is because Item1 has "manufacturing date and batch number", may have "imported from" etc that are different from Item2 by Seller2. Seller1 may have gotten it with different pricing terms etc.
      - nkurz 7y ago
        When you say "right", you need to distinguish between "accurate" and "reasonable". The OP has correctly described Amazon's approach to commingling (claimed) SKU's. And you have correctly concluded that policy is likely to lead to bad outcomes for both buyers and sellers. Whether it's a bad policy for Amazon as a corporation remains to be seen.
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
Haha. Here in Australia AliExpress feels like Amazon with faster shipping and more honesty. Although Amazon now has an Australian entity, though I’m not sure how popular it is, maybe as (non-) popular as Amazon...
jhallenworld 7y ago
They do care about the quality of their own products. I posted a negative review on an Amazon product, and they called me(!) so that I could further elaborate. It was very odd because they called within an hour of the review. At some point I must have given them my phone number. This was a review for their TV Cube. I was trying to buy something with good voice control to allow a paralyzed person to browse YouTube, and TV Cube could not do it (maybe it will be better in the future..). I suspect the only reason I got the call is that TV Cube is in active development.
- opportune 7y ago
  I posted a negative review on a FBA product (~$100) that arrived super late and damaged. I got called to offer me $20 to take the review down. Didn’t respond, they somehow got my review taken down anyway. That was the first time I realized how bad Amazon was getting. Kind of surprised this is something Amazon does too though; I figured only crappy dropshippers would engage in that
  - bobsoap 7y ago
    I once posted a negative review on their Basics HDMI cable, which had absymal shielding. It went "under review" immediately, and a few days later the review just silently vanished without a trace.
  - chatmasta 7y ago
    What is wrong with Amazon (or any vendor) following up on a bad review? If they’re offering incentives to take it down, of course that’s a problem. But engaging with the customer and identifying faults in detail seems like a plainly good, consumer-friendly and win/win behavior that every brand should practice. That said, I’m not sure a third party seller can get my contact info as easily as Amazon can, so that part seems a bit unfair.
    - okmokmz 7y ago
      The problem is not "following up on a bad review" the problem is "I got called to offer me $20 to take the review down. Didn’t respond, they somehow got my review taken down anyway"
dmix 7y ago
Good thing people love Singaporean electronics bazaars.
gambiting 7y ago
(I can only guess you are American) - American experiences with Amazon are so different to mine over here in the UK it's incredible. I buy tonnes of different stuff from Amazon(multiple hundred orders last year) and I have never ever gotten anything counterfeit or had any issues. In fact every time when their 1-day delivery arrives late they just extend my prime by a month, no questions asked. And yet every time I go on HN it's 100% negative, stories about unreputable sellers selling fake stuff - this is just not happening outside of US for some reason.
- hollerith 7y ago
  According to the Youtuber "serpentza", EU law requires Amazon to display the country of residence of an Amazon seller, whereas the US has no such law (and Amazon chooses not to display the information in the US). If counterfeiters are concentrated in a few countries with bad reputations among consumers, counterfeiters have an incentive to choose Amazon's US store.
- hahamrfunnyguy 7y ago
  US Prime member here. Never had any problems with fake stuff. One time, my order was stolen and replaced with something of similar weight. I called Amazon right away, and they refunded my purchase. When I need to return something, it's easy.
  - LegitShady 7y ago
    Its interesting. I bet it also has to do with what you're buying that makes you more or less likely to hit a fake.
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  I live in the US and buy a ton of stuff on Amazon for my business and haven’t noticed a counterfeit problem. I think there are just lots of loud voices from people that have gotten counterfeits or just in general don’t like Amazon.
- SteveMoody73 7y ago
  Same here, have placed hundreds of orders on Amazon UK in the last few years and have never really had any problems. The rare few times i've had problems then a call to customer support has usually had the issue resolved right away and quite often with a discount voucher for the next shop.
29_29 7y ago
> Otherwise, Amazon feels like AliExpress with faster shipping and better English. I canceled prime some time ago, because I realized I was getting significantly lower quality products than Walmart. Its become a junk store.
dannyr 7y ago
In the long term, it's not user-centric at all. Amazon pushing its own products drive 3rd-party resellers out of business and eventually, no other choices for consumers.
tylerl 7y ago
Amazon: fast shipping, easy returns. That's literally the beginning and end of their entire value proposition. If any other company can fill that niche, they can have my money with no regrets.
Scoundreller 7y ago
AliExpress: a massive company that somehow never bothered to observe a new user using their software. Why the heck does the ordering window have 2 or 3 “Confirm” boxes that I have to press? And if I haven’t, why can’t it just tell me what’s not confirmed when I hit “Submit Order”?
- peteretep 7y ago
  I've had the misfortune of needing to run some FB and Twitter ads recently, and it baffles me how completely unusable and unfriendly these platforms are for the only thing that makes them any money.
paulcarroty 7y ago
Well, products which sells Amazon by yourself, not by third-party sellers, are mostly trustworthy. Aliexpress - always been a Russian roulette.

by Pxtl 7y ago

helpPeople 7y ago

I've seen Amazon prices go up while Walmart Online has been cheaper for household items. On speciality electronics, I don't think anyone would be surprised to know Amazon is more expensive. It's an ancedote sure, but back in 2012, we shopped only at Amazon. Now they are no longer King.

dmarlow 7y ago
I too have noticed this. I recently bought a new keyboard and mouse and got them both at best buy for cheaper.
- jedberg 7y ago
  When I spilled water on my keyboard, I actually walked into a Fry's and got a better deal than anything online, for a genuine Microsoft keyboard.
  - zucked 7y ago
    I've noticed this on many occasions in the last month. I bought a mouse that Amazon had listed for $39. I walked a block and bought it from Office De/Max for $10 cheaper. I wanted to get a sweater shaver. Amazon had it for 22. I bought a NIB one from Ebay for $12. As far as I am concerned, the only thing Amazon has going for it right now is that it is a a one stop shop. That's worth something… how much? I'm not sure, but I know I'm buying a hell of a lot less stuff from Amazon now than 2 years ago.
  - nacs 7y ago
    Frys is one of the few retail places that consistently beats Amazon. I recently built a PC and almost every part was cheaper in Fry's than Amazon.
  - peteretep 7y ago
    > for a genuine Microsoft keyboard Also you knew it was Genuine. I'd love Amazon to do a "Guaranteed Genuine" label or something, but I can see why they don't. I used to buy everything on Amazon, now I only buy stuff that I'm willing to accept might be counterfeit.
chenster 7y ago
With Amazon, you sit your butts at home and get what you want without getting stuck in traffic and waiting in line to check out in-store just to get a $20 keyboard. Nevertheless, it remains questionable how this change would be a fair competition for Amazon sellers, not just the Alibaba private label sellers but also all the sellers with popular products.
- the_duke 7y ago
  You missed the "Online" part of "Walmart Online".
- untog 7y ago
  Amazon is far from unique there. As the OP says, Walmart has a sturdy online offering, though it also relies on "marketplace" sellers. I've started ordering a lot of online stuff from Target and I've been very happy with it. Cheap shipping and reliable quality.
avgDev 7y ago
I think Amazon can be quickly replaced. I was attracted to Amazon only because of lower prices. That was it and now it is no longer the case. As soon as another big player steps up and offers lower prices and simple UI there won't be a need for me to shop on Amazon.
- nacs 7y ago
  Except its not just the lower prices that are important -- the quick order processing and shipping are a huge reason why Amazon is succeeding. Living near a metro area, I can get items from Amazon items within 24-48 hours (with Prime). Sometimes it even arrives later the same day. Plus the whole free shipping (as long as you're Prime) thing..
  - avgDev 7y ago
    The free shipping is weird....I recently noticed that my father was looking up something he wanted me to order for him....his price was less, same item and amazon seller. I logged in and boom my price was $3 higher on a 20 dollar item. So, I'm not sure how "free" the shipping is anymore. I do agree that fast shipping is a big part of amazon but I think another big player could match the processing speed.
    - LordDragonfang 7y ago
      Amazon has multiple sellers with different shipping options and prices for most items, and always tries to show you the best "deal". This sometimes includes the likelihood that you prefer the two-day shipping. The listing being offered to you father probably wasn't eligible for prime (not shipped by Amazon) so the price+shipping was lower than Amazon's price+non-free-shipping (and the third party was likely intentionally undercutting Amazon to be shown first). Once you signed it, it offered you the one with prime shipping because the total was cheaper.
      - avgDev 7y ago
        Same seller Amazon.

password1 7y ago

> Otherwise, Amazon feels like AliExpress with faster shipping and better English. It literally is. All these products are cheap stuff that marketers find on aliexpress. They buy them in bulk, stamp a logo on it, import in the US/EU, stock in logistic centers and then sell on Amazon. It's the same stuff, but it comes from an English seller and a warehouse in US/EU. It's exactly the same thing that Amazon does with its product lines though (like Amazon Basics), so not really rooting for their own name-brands either.

muddi900 7y ago
Amazon analytics firms(JungleScout etc) specifically offer direct search to Alibaba from their apps, for private-labelling
jastanton 7y ago
The one difference is that the Amazon Basics products seem to have a quality bar higher than the other random re-labeled products.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  They recalled a quarter million power banks because they were catching fire. Everybody uses the same factories and Amazon doesn't have better quality control than anyone else.
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    To be fair, Samsung had to scrap a whole phone model because of battery problems. The Boeing 787 suffered with problems of batteries catching fire (and according to some reports still does). It's a tricky problem to avoid.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      Anecdotally I've spoken to people who compete with Amazon private label in electronics and they tell me Amazon doesn't care about quality, and that the factories they were buying from were known to be lower quality. I've also heard the opposite about Anker - that they always get the best quality.

seattlebarley 7y ago

Eh, I just don't agree with this at all. It's pretty easy to use filters in your search to find what you want.

MisterTea 7y ago

Amazon's reputation is pretty damaged in my eyes. I have rarely used them for electronics anymore as you can't trust anything. Even at work we used prime to buy certain items and I stopped it. Example: Last week two symbol barcode scanners used in the erp system died. I look up the same model on newegg and see that sold and shipped by newegg it was about $120. Amazon had multiple listing in the $60 range and checking reviews I see things like "died in two weeks", FAKE, "died and returned to symbol only for them to say it was a fake and they were refused service or replacement". How do you build trust with shenanigans like that? No thanks, Newegg got my money. Amazon seems to be playing oblivious to all this mainly because people are STILL using them. So as long as they are making money they can afford to lose a few "picky" customers here and there. The rest are happy to buy trash because they save a buck. Capitalism at its finest.

cptskippy 7y ago
Sadly Newegg is following in Amazon's footsteps with it's affiliate program. You have to choose Newegg as the seller or you run into the same issues. As soon as Newegg starts mingling stock like Amazon does, then we'll have to go back to big box retailers to ensure we're getting the item we're paying for.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Small nitpick, but what you are referring to is not an affiliate program. An affiliate program is where a website gets a cut of the sales for providing links to a retailer's site. So, The Wirecutter makes money by using affiliate links to Amazon and other retailers on their product review articles.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    Yeah you're right. I'm not sure what the correct term is.
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      I'm not sure either, tbh. Perhaps 'marketplace' or 'platform'.

sokoloff 7y ago

It’s odd to me to think that something which is user-centric could be “grossly unfair” to vendors. If you view vendors on the platform as existing to serve the users (as I do), the contradiction evaporates. If you view users as existing to serve the vendors, then it’s possible.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
Something can be unfair to vendors in a way which is bad for consumers. Amazon's own products might be, for example, more expensive or worse quality.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  That would then not be user-centric.
  - papln 7y ago
    But it also would not be begging the question. One should not assume that "good for Amazon" is always user-centric.
Pxtl 7y ago
I'm mostly referring to established companies that have reputations as-good-or-better-than AmazonBasics and I would be more than happy to see them in the same premium position.
_jal 7y ago
There are things known as two-sided marketplaces. This isn't novel; malls and similar have existed for a very long time. I get that US culture is heavy on "the customer is always right"[1], etc. but two-sided markets don't exist without recognizing both sides. [1] In reality, that ends up being more of an employee control mechanism than a dedication to customers, but that's a different topic.
- sk5t 7y ago

Certhas 7y ago

Still, they are the monopoly marketplace online. They should be doing _everything_ to avoid looking like they are abusing their monopoly position to muscle into other fields. The fact that they don't seem too bothered just seems to indicate to me that regulators are not prepared to act on them. Really the rule should simply be that if you operate a market place you can't sell on it. Full stop. Then we could simply be happy that amazon is finally improving it's search and/or the quality of its listings.

sct202 7y ago
I think a lot of people are missing the point that Amazon controls so much market share now that actions that aren't anti-competitive if you have 1% market share are when you control 50%+.
calimac 7y ago
Exactly, great point. All other arguments are moot. They have a monopoly. This is an example of abuse of power. The argument that they do it in the name of user experience is an example of the double speak of SV giants. This will not hold up under justice department scrutiny. I hope the tech giants are "brought to heel" as HRC would say.
rock_hard 7y ago
How is amazon a monopoly? Last time I checked there was a ocean of e-commerce stores on the internet all selling the same stuff
- zaidf 7y ago
  When Microsoft got busted for being anti-competitive, you could still download Netscape Navigator and use it.
  - jedimastert 7y ago
    Anti-competitive behavior is different than having a monopoly
  - 7y ago

mattmcknight 7y ago

I'm done with buying stuff from third party sellers on Amazon. If the seller is not amazon.com, I am not buying from Amazon. Fulfilled by Amazon is not good enough. Unfortunately, the only way to get a seller option is to pick an item department. I wonder why they would bury such a useful feature. It should be a box you can tick for the whole site.

toasterlovin 7y ago
Some advice (from a company that sells our own products on Amazon): buy only from Amazon or the manufacturer. When buying from the manufacturer, look at the 1 and 2 star ratings. They will be the best barometer of product quality.
- mattmcknight 7y ago
  Is there a reliable way of determining that the seller is the actual manufacturer and not a copy cat name?
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    In my opinion, it's pretty safe to assume that sellers misrepresenting themselves as the manufacturer won't last long on any platform. Manufacturers are all pretty aware of Amazon at this point.
xenocyon 7y ago
I think your comment illustrates exactly why this is a win-win for Amazon: on the one hand they take a cut out of (cheap, low-quality) third-party sellers on their platform; on the other, quality-conscious consumers like yourself simply filter for "sold by Amazon" instead of leaving for a non-Amazon website. So Amazon wins either way.
tzs 7y ago
Are items where the seller is Amazon immune from commingling [1]? [1] OT: I wondered why it is "commingling" instead of "comingling" (like "cohabitation"), or "colmingling" (like "collaboration"), "conmingling" (like "concur"), or "cormingling" (like "correlation"), so looked up the rule. The com-, co-, col-, con-, and cor- prefixes all mean "together". Which is used generally follows this rule: "Com- is used before b, m, p, also occasionally before vowels and f. The following variant forms occur: co- especially before vowels, h, and gn; col- before l; cor- before r; and con- before other consonants". See https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/com- https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/com-

momokoko 7y ago

At this point, anecdotally, it feels as though the top comment on almost every article I see on HN about Amazon is some variation of this complaint. Has anyone done any analysis on the HN posting dataset to see if that happens to be the case? And if that is the case, does anyone have any insight into why that might be?

VRay 7y ago
Amazon used to have the best service, best quality products, and best prices, so practically every HN user loved them. Now they're wavering on all three of those fronts, and I guess that fact really bothers most of us
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Amazon used to have the best service, best quality products, and best prices They used to usually have the best prices on the products they had, and the widest selection of products. They didn't always have the best quality products (which were sometimes exclusive to non-Amazon channels), and outside of return policy (which was very generous, probably specifically to cover all the other glitches) their service was nothing special at its best. Let's not view past Amazon through rose-colored glasses.
- momokoko 7y ago
  I'm not disagreeing with the premise that Amazon has issues. But I do not see a similar pattern with other companies and services. Of course, this is anecdotal, but it does seem significantly higher with Amazon itself. It is possibly that most HN users purchase a lot via Amazon? Is it a small but vocal group of HN users that have a grudge because they had an unsuccessful drop shipping operation that was harmed via Amazon? Is there some competitor(ie. Walmart) that is trying to push an agenda? It just seems high compared to other services, so I'm curious into additional insight into why Amazon, specifically, has this pattern when other services with issues do not. I personally feel like it may just be that most HN users are, or were, heavy purchasers from Amazon. But I'm just looking to see if maybe there is a more insightful take on things.

snarf21 7y ago

I think the big changed needed on Amazon is the "Seller". With their commingling of all products with the same SKU, "seller" is an irrelevant term. If people could review actual sellers, it could put a dent in the knock-offs. I'm not sure if there are just enough people who can't tell the difference or don't want the trouble of returning it to make this a profitable strategy for everyone.

specialist 7y ago
What does commingling mean? In real world terms? I ask because I'm unclear if shared SKU is a physical thing, a logical implementation detail, or some mix. Is there a bin full of white 3' USB cables of the same type, regardless of supplier? I had the impression that fulfillment centers weren't organized by product. Everything is everywhere. The robots retrieve the bins of whatever from wherever for the pickers to grab from. If this is mostly true, I'm not clear how similar white 3' USB cables get commingled.
- dannyw 7y ago
  Correct. Fulfilment is UPC based and independent of seller, for all FBA products.
  - vinay_ys 7y ago
    This doesn't sound right. Even if two different sellers are selling the exact same brand manufactured product (say, an Android Phone), via FBA, when a customer buys from seller1, they should get the Item1 which was actually supplied to FBA by Seller1. They cannot get Item2 which was supplied by Seller2. When the customer returns the Item1 for manufacturing defect etc reasons, it has to go back to the Seller1. This is because Item1 has "manufacturing date and batch number", may have "imported from" etc that are different from Item2 by Seller2. Seller1 may have gotten it with different pricing terms etc.
    - nkurz 7y ago
      When you say "right", you need to distinguish between "accurate" and "reasonable". The OP has correctly described Amazon's approach to commingling (claimed) SKU's. And you have correctly concluded that policy is likely to lead to bad outcomes for both buyers and sellers. Whether it's a bad policy for Amazon as a corporation remains to be seen.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

Haha. Here in Australia AliExpress feels like Amazon with faster shipping and more honesty. Although Amazon now has an Australian entity, though I’m not sure how popular it is, maybe as (non-) popular as Amazon...

jhallenworld 7y ago

They do care about the quality of their own products. I posted a negative review on an Amazon product, and they called me(!) so that I could further elaborate. It was very odd because they called within an hour of the review. At some point I must have given them my phone number. This was a review for their TV Cube. I was trying to buy something with good voice control to allow a paralyzed person to browse YouTube, and TV Cube could not do it (maybe it will be better in the future..). I suspect the only reason I got the call is that TV Cube is in active development.

opportune 7y ago
I posted a negative review on a FBA product (~$100) that arrived super late and damaged. I got called to offer me $20 to take the review down. Didn’t respond, they somehow got my review taken down anyway. That was the first time I realized how bad Amazon was getting. Kind of surprised this is something Amazon does too though; I figured only crappy dropshippers would engage in that
- bobsoap 7y ago
  I once posted a negative review on their Basics HDMI cable, which had absymal shielding. It went "under review" immediately, and a few days later the review just silently vanished without a trace.
- chatmasta 7y ago
  What is wrong with Amazon (or any vendor) following up on a bad review? If they’re offering incentives to take it down, of course that’s a problem. But engaging with the customer and identifying faults in detail seems like a plainly good, consumer-friendly and win/win behavior that every brand should practice. That said, I’m not sure a third party seller can get my contact info as easily as Amazon can, so that part seems a bit unfair.
  - okmokmz 7y ago
    The problem is not "following up on a bad review" the problem is "I got called to offer me $20 to take the review down. Didn’t respond, they somehow got my review taken down anyway"

dmix 7y ago

Good thing people love Singaporean electronics bazaars.

gambiting 7y ago

(I can only guess you are American) - American experiences with Amazon are so different to mine over here in the UK it's incredible. I buy tonnes of different stuff from Amazon(multiple hundred orders last year) and I have never ever gotten anything counterfeit or had any issues. In fact every time when their 1-day delivery arrives late they just extend my prime by a month, no questions asked. And yet every time I go on HN it's 100% negative, stories about unreputable sellers selling fake stuff - this is just not happening outside of US for some reason.

hollerith 7y ago
According to the Youtuber "serpentza", EU law requires Amazon to display the country of residence of an Amazon seller, whereas the US has no such law (and Amazon chooses not to display the information in the US). If counterfeiters are concentrated in a few countries with bad reputations among consumers, counterfeiters have an incentive to choose Amazon's US store.
hahamrfunnyguy 7y ago
US Prime member here. Never had any problems with fake stuff. One time, my order was stolen and replaced with something of similar weight. I called Amazon right away, and they refunded my purchase. When I need to return something, it's easy.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  Its interesting. I bet it also has to do with what you're buying that makes you more or less likely to hit a fake.
JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
I live in the US and buy a ton of stuff on Amazon for my business and haven’t noticed a counterfeit problem. I think there are just lots of loud voices from people that have gotten counterfeits or just in general don’t like Amazon.
SteveMoody73 7y ago
Same here, have placed hundreds of orders on Amazon UK in the last few years and have never really had any problems. The rare few times i've had problems then a call to customer support has usually had the issue resolved right away and quite often with a discount voucher for the next shop.

29_29 7y ago

> Otherwise, Amazon feels like AliExpress with faster shipping and better English. I canceled prime some time ago, because I realized I was getting significantly lower quality products than Walmart. Its become a junk store.

dannyr 7y ago

In the long term, it's not user-centric at all. Amazon pushing its own products drive 3rd-party resellers out of business and eventually, no other choices for consumers.

tylerl 7y ago

Amazon: fast shipping, easy returns. That's literally the beginning and end of their entire value proposition. If any other company can fill that niche, they can have my money with no regrets.

Scoundreller 7y ago

AliExpress: a massive company that somehow never bothered to observe a new user using their software. Why the heck does the ordering window have 2 or 3 “Confirm” boxes that I have to press? And if I haven’t, why can’t it just tell me what’s not confirmed when I hit “Submit Order”?

peteretep 7y ago
I've had the misfortune of needing to run some FB and Twitter ads recently, and it baffles me how completely unusable and unfriendly these platforms are for the only thing that makes them any money.

paulcarroty 7y ago

Well, products which sells Amazon by yourself, not by third-party sellers, are mostly trustworthy. Aliexpress - always been a Russian roulette.