6 ms·

Cats, as cute as they are, are a major contributor as well. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/cat-birds-australia/595048/ https://www.theatla

by est31 7y ago

Cats, as cute as they are, are a major contributor as well. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/cat-birds-australia/595048/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/07/cat-bird... > Feral cats on islands are responsible for at least 14% global bird, mammal, and reptile extinctions and are the principal threat to almost 8% of critically endangered birds, mammals, and reptiles. https://www.doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02464.x https://www.doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2486.2011.02464.x

rob74 7y ago
While that paper singles out cats, any introduced mammal species (rats, foxes, dogs etc.) on an island with ground-nesting and/or flightless birds is a huge problem...
- A_I 7y ago
  Yes, that's a massive issue in New Zealand. We have a programme called Predator Free 2050 aiming to address it. There are some very interesting organisations working on solutions, such as the Cacophony Project (https://cacophony.org.nz/ https://cacophony.org.nz/)
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    I added this up the thread, but here again so you don't miss it. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end-of-cats-an-interview-with-the-new-zealand-economist-calling-to-eliminate-all-kitties/272474/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end...
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      What a madman. Cats > birds.
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  Not just mammals. Fireants got most of the quail when they arrived in the woods I grew up in. Neighbors lost most of their guinea hens too. And rabbits got pretty scarce.
gaoshan 7y ago
This. People in suburban and urban areas should be banned from having outdoor cats, period.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Yes, let's make the life of a pet miserable so we can have urban/suburban birds... As if the problem is the loss of birds in Manhattan or Queens, and not the loss of birds in millions of acres of rural USA (where cats are not really the problem), for example...
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    I guess if those are our options then better for all if your cat is inside safe from cars and predators and yay we get birds!
  - lawlessone 7y ago
    >Yes, let's make the life of a pet miserable so we can have urban/suburban birds... Responsible people don't let their dogs roam the streets as they can be a threat to strangers, children etc. why should we treat cat's any differently especially when cats kill far more.
    - Buttons840 7y ago
      The reason you gave for not allowing dogs to roam does not apply to cats.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    We shouldn't be making like for pets more miserable. We should be explaining to people the damage that cats to to the local ecology and dissuading them from having them. A fun talk I had with my kids.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Kids are far more destructive for the environment than cats, though.
chiefalchemist 7y ago
Two more from The Atlantic: - How Cats Used Humans to Conquer the World - -- Ancient DNA from 209 cats over 9,000 years tell the story of their dispersal. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/06/cat-domination/530685/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/06/cat-domi... - The End of Cats: An Interview With the New Zealand Economist Calling to Eliminate All Kitties -- "The cat lobby here is just as feral, self-centered and as balmy as your gun lobby is" https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end-of-cats-an-interview-with-the-new-zealand-economist-calling-to-eliminate-all-kitties/272474/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end...
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  > "The cat lobby here is just as feral, self-centered and as balmy as your gun lobby is" Damn, that is quite the quote. I imagine he's not quite being fair (though I admittedly have little exposure to the pet politics of New Zealand", but I have noticed a strong and immediate current of defensiveness among cat owners whenever anything negative about cats is brought up (in a way that's absent when say, domestic dogs as a vector for disease are brought up). Though it's perhaps a little understandable that cat lovers would be a little thin-skinned due to the general bad rap that cats get.
ljf 7y ago
Don't only blame cats: https://www.livescience.com/27330-dogs-disrupt-wildlife.html https://www.livescience.com/27330-dogs-disrupt-wildlife.html https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  There's a bit of a difference here: the staggering figures for wildlife killed by cats that they cite is for the US: > the felines kill between 1.4 billion and 3.7 billion birds and between 6.9 billion and 20.7 billion small mammals, such as meadow voles and chipmunks, each year. But since free-roaming dogs are very uncommon in the US (and most of the developed world), they have to jump to strays and owned free-roaming dogs across the world to make their comparison. To be clear, the latter is on point relative to what we're discussing in this thread (eg the feral cats statistic). But there are solutions in reach that would be acceptable for dealing with strays (eg, what we do for dogs in the US), that apply to both dogs and cats. The difference is that this would cause dogs' threat to the local environment to nearly vanish, while cats would still pose a massive threat to local wildlife due to owners that let their cats roam.

by est31 7y ago

rob74 7y ago

While that paper singles out cats, any introduced mammal species (rats, foxes, dogs etc.) on an island with ground-nesting and/or flightless birds is a huge problem...

A_I 7y ago
Yes, that's a massive issue in New Zealand. We have a programme called Predator Free 2050 aiming to address it. There are some very interesting organisations working on solutions, such as the Cacophony Project (https://cacophony.org.nz/ https://cacophony.org.nz/)
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  I added this up the thread, but here again so you don't miss it. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end-of-cats-an-interview-with-the-new-zealand-economist-calling-to-eliminate-all-kitties/272474/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end...
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    What a madman. Cats > birds.
galangalalgol 7y ago
Not just mammals. Fireants got most of the quail when they arrived in the woods I grew up in. Neighbors lost most of their guinea hens too. And rabbits got pretty scarce.

gaoshan 7y ago

This. People in suburban and urban areas should be banned from having outdoor cats, period.

coldtea 7y ago
Yes, let's make the life of a pet miserable so we can have urban/suburban birds... As if the problem is the loss of birds in Manhattan or Queens, and not the loss of birds in millions of acres of rural USA (where cats are not really the problem), for example...
- wavefunction 7y ago
  I guess if those are our options then better for all if your cat is inside safe from cars and predators and yay we get birds!
- lawlessone 7y ago
  >Yes, let's make the life of a pet miserable so we can have urban/suburban birds... Responsible people don't let their dogs roam the streets as they can be a threat to strangers, children etc. why should we treat cat's any differently especially when cats kill far more.
  - Buttons840 7y ago
    The reason you gave for not allowing dogs to roam does not apply to cats.
- Angostura 7y ago
  We shouldn't be making like for pets more miserable. We should be explaining to people the damage that cats to to the local ecology and dissuading them from having them. A fun talk I had with my kids.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Kids are far more destructive for the environment than cats, though.

chiefalchemist 7y ago

Two more from The Atlantic: - How Cats Used Humans to Conquer the World - -- Ancient DNA from 209 cats over 9,000 years tell the story of their dispersal. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/06/cat-domination/530685/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/06/cat-domi... - The End of Cats: An Interview With the New Zealand Economist Calling to Eliminate All Kitties -- "The cat lobby here is just as feral, self-centered and as balmy as your gun lobby is" https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end-of-cats-an-interview-with-the-new-zealand-economist-calling-to-eliminate-all-kitties/272474/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/the-end...

wutbrodo 7y ago
> "The cat lobby here is just as feral, self-centered and as balmy as your gun lobby is" Damn, that is quite the quote. I imagine he's not quite being fair (though I admittedly have little exposure to the pet politics of New Zealand", but I have noticed a strong and immediate current of defensiveness among cat owners whenever anything negative about cats is brought up (in a way that's absent when say, domestic dogs as a vector for disease are brought up). Though it's perhaps a little understandable that cat lovers would be a little thin-skinned due to the general bad rap that cats get.

ljf 7y ago

Don't only blame cats: https://www.livescience.com/27330-dogs-disrupt-wildlife.html https://www.livescience.com/27330-dogs-disrupt-wildlife.html https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...

wutbrodo 7y ago
There's a bit of a difference here: the staggering figures for wildlife killed by cats that they cite is for the US: > the felines kill between 1.4 billion and 3.7 billion birds and between 6.9 billion and 20.7 billion small mammals, such as meadow voles and chipmunks, each year. But since free-roaming dogs are very uncommon in the US (and most of the developed world), they have to jump to strays and owned free-roaming dogs across the world to make their comparison. To be clear, the latter is on point relative to what we're discussing in this thread (eg the feral cats statistic). But there are solutions in reach that would be acceptable for dealing with strays (eg, what we do for dogs in the US), that apply to both dogs and cats. The difference is that this would cause dogs' threat to the local environment to nearly vanish, while cats would still pose a massive threat to local wildlife due to owners that let their cats roam.