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[________] anyone who just finished reading the article and checked the references will think you are trolling if you re-accuse the Labour party for anti-semiti

[________] anyone who just finished reading the article and checked the references will think you are trolling if you re-accuse the Labour party for anti-semitism... EDIT: removed "Did you even read the article?" per the site guidelines

Singletoned 7y ago
The article is deeply biased in trying to make a point. Nothing in the article actually clears the Labour Party (as opposed to their supporters). An "independent inquiry" that they commissioned has all the weight of every other "independent inquiry" that has ever been commission, ie none. That few members of party have been investigated (by the party) is one of the problems that people are complaining about.
irb 7y ago
The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? And yes, I checked the references, and they are not wholly convincing. A statement that only 0.06% of the Labour membership have been investigated for anti-semitism (which firstly still seems kind of high to me, and secondly obviously not being investigated for anti-semitism does not mean one is not anti-semitic) and an independent inquiry by the person who was subsequently made Labour's shadow attorney general? I'm not saying Labour is overrun by anti-semitism but let's try not to just believe the last thing we read, ok?
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem. There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism. There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment. For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know? If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison. There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplom... Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader. As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?
  - SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
    Are you a member of the Labour party?
  - irb 7y ago
    Anti-semitism (and prejudice in general) exists on a much wider spectrum than just "burning hatred", and it is entirely possible to be friendly with members of a group that you are prejudiced against. If, perhaps, you believe that Jewish people do not integrate fully and are not "properly British", it does not prevent you from also getting on perfectly well with your Jewish next door neighbour, but you're still anti-semitic. And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.
    - crdoconnor 7y ago
      43% of tory party members wouldn't vote for a Muslim leader. That's endemic institutional racism. Labour party members have no such issue with Jews. The anti semitism accusations are purely about the Israel lobby throwing a fit.
      - notahacker 7y ago
        That and the number of Labour members prepared to insist every Jewish person complaining about their treatment or objecting to the disciplinary body ruling holocaust denial memes OK is part of the "Israel lobby throwing a fit"...
        crdoconnor 7y ago
        Most of the ones whose complaints get into the media have links. E.g. members of Labour Friends of Israel like Margaret Hodge who went on a junket to Israel specifically to apologize to Isaac Herzog (he who said "race mixing between Jews and non Jews is a 'tragedy'") about the UK Labour party's "anti semitism issues". It's frankly quite disgusting the level of Islamophobia some of these people are endorsing simply because they consider it politically expedient to throw their support behind a foreign government. It's not that anti semitism doesn't exist at all in the Labour party. It's just vanishingly rare and literally nobody - NEVER MIND a leader - has said anything close to as disgusting as what Isaac Herzog or Boris Johnson has said.
- phatfish 7y ago
  When you have ~500,000 registered members there are bound to be a few nutters. Especially when Twitter is involved. Which is where many of the reported instances of antisemitism come from. Corbyn himself liked a couple of suspect images on Facebook and has been critical of Israel. While still keeping the support of leftwing Jewish organisations (Marx was a Jew after all). Obviously racism should be called out and dealt with when it is found. To me, over the ~4 years this has been a storey in the press the Labour Party have sufficiently answered all questions. When you get popular enough with a political movement that threatens the rich elite of any race or religion, the attacks start. It just happened that Corbyn was pretty boring in his personal life, attacking his views on Israel was the only option.
- Udik 7y ago
  > The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? One of the charges against Corbyn is that he co-hosted a talk in 2010 in which a Jewish holocaust survivor compared Israel's practices with those of Nazi Germany. I mean, can it get more ridiculous than that? You're accused of being an anti-semite because you allowed a Jewish holocaust survivor to criticise Israel?
vinceguidry 7y ago
As per HN guidelines, please don't ask if or insinuate that someone hasn't read the article. It's needlessly inflammatory.

Singletoned 7y ago

The article is deeply biased in trying to make a point. Nothing in the article actually clears the Labour Party (as opposed to their supporters). An "independent inquiry" that they commissioned has all the weight of every other "independent inquiry" that has ever been commission, ie none. That few members of party have been investigated (by the party) is one of the problems that people are complaining about.

irb 7y ago

The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? And yes, I checked the references, and they are not wholly convincing. A statement that only 0.06% of the Labour membership have been investigated for anti-semitism (which firstly still seems kind of high to me, and secondly obviously not being investigated for anti-semitism does not mean one is not anti-semitic) and an independent inquiry by the person who was subsequently made Labour's shadow attorney general? I'm not saying Labour is overrun by anti-semitism but let's try not to just believe the last thing we read, ok?

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem. There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism. There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment. For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know? If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison. There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplom... Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader. As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?
- SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
  Are you a member of the Labour party?
- irb 7y ago
  Anti-semitism (and prejudice in general) exists on a much wider spectrum than just "burning hatred", and it is entirely possible to be friendly with members of a group that you are prejudiced against. If, perhaps, you believe that Jewish people do not integrate fully and are not "properly British", it does not prevent you from also getting on perfectly well with your Jewish next door neighbour, but you're still anti-semitic. And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.
  - crdoconnor 7y ago
    43% of tory party members wouldn't vote for a Muslim leader. That's endemic institutional racism. Labour party members have no such issue with Jews. The anti semitism accusations are purely about the Israel lobby throwing a fit.
    - notahacker 7y ago
      That and the number of Labour members prepared to insist every Jewish person complaining about their treatment or objecting to the disciplinary body ruling holocaust denial memes OK is part of the "Israel lobby throwing a fit"...
      - crdoconnor 7y ago
        Most of the ones whose complaints get into the media have links. E.g. members of Labour Friends of Israel like Margaret Hodge who went on a junket to Israel specifically to apologize to Isaac Herzog (he who said "race mixing between Jews and non Jews is a 'tragedy'") about the UK Labour party's "anti semitism issues". It's frankly quite disgusting the level of Islamophobia some of these people are endorsing simply because they consider it politically expedient to throw their support behind a foreign government. It's not that anti semitism doesn't exist at all in the Labour party. It's just vanishingly rare and literally nobody - NEVER MIND a leader - has said anything close to as disgusting as what Isaac Herzog or Boris Johnson has said.
phatfish 7y ago
When you have ~500,000 registered members there are bound to be a few nutters. Especially when Twitter is involved. Which is where many of the reported instances of antisemitism come from. Corbyn himself liked a couple of suspect images on Facebook and has been critical of Israel. While still keeping the support of leftwing Jewish organisations (Marx was a Jew after all). Obviously racism should be called out and dealt with when it is found. To me, over the ~4 years this has been a storey in the press the Labour Party have sufficiently answered all questions. When you get popular enough with a political movement that threatens the rich elite of any race or religion, the attacks start. It just happened that Corbyn was pretty boring in his personal life, attacking his views on Israel was the only option.
Udik 7y ago
> The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? One of the charges against Corbyn is that he co-hosted a talk in 2010 in which a Jewish holocaust survivor compared Israel's practices with those of Nazi Germany. I mean, can it get more ridiculous than that? You're accused of being an anti-semite because you allowed a Jewish holocaust survivor to criticise Israel?

vinceguidry 7y ago

As per HN guidelines, please don't ask if or insinuate that someone hasn't read the article. It's needlessly inflammatory.