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I suspect that there going to be a divergence between "left-leaning" and "liberal-leaning" in Britain. The British Labour party isn't inherently liberal (as th

I suspect that there going to be a divergence between "left-leaning" and "liberal-leaning" in Britain. The British Labour party isn't inherently liberal (as they have shown with their anti-semitism and resistance to gay marriage). I think they will continue further down a path of non-liberal socialism, alienating a lot of people who hadn't previously considered that "left" and "liberal" were different concepts.

DoctorOetker 7y ago
[________] anyone who just finished reading the article and checked the references will think you are trolling if you re-accuse the Labour party for anti-semitism... EDIT: removed "Did you even read the article?" per the site guidelines
- Singletoned 7y ago
  The article is deeply biased in trying to make a point. Nothing in the article actually clears the Labour Party (as opposed to their supporters). An "independent inquiry" that they commissioned has all the weight of every other "independent inquiry" that has ever been commission, ie none. That few members of party have been investigated (by the party) is one of the problems that people are complaining about.
- irb 7y ago
  The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? And yes, I checked the references, and they are not wholly convincing. A statement that only 0.06% of the Labour membership have been investigated for anti-semitism (which firstly still seems kind of high to me, and secondly obviously not being investigated for anti-semitism does not mean one is not anti-semitic) and an independent inquiry by the person who was subsequently made Labour's shadow attorney general? I'm not saying Labour is overrun by anti-semitism but let's try not to just believe the last thing we read, ok?
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem. There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism. There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment. For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know? If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison. There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplom... Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader. As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?
    - SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
      Are you a member of the Labour party?
    - irb 7y ago
      Anti-semitism (and prejudice in general) exists on a much wider spectrum than just "burning hatred", and it is entirely possible to be friendly with members of a group that you are prejudiced against. If, perhaps, you believe that Jewish people do not integrate fully and are not "properly British", it does not prevent you from also getting on perfectly well with your Jewish next door neighbour, but you're still anti-semitic. And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.
      - crdoconnor 7y ago
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  As per HN guidelines, please don't ask if or insinuate that someone hasn't read the article. It's needlessly inflammatory.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
Accusations of Labour antisemitism are a cyclical ploy used by: 1. Pro-Israeli groups and politicians who want to force Labour back in line on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. 2. The Tories, to smear their opposition. 3. People within Labour who want to just the more left-wing Corbyn. The more you read about these "antisemitic incidents," the more ridiculous it gets. One perfect example was the Jewish Labour member who was accused of antisemitism because she said Holocaust memorial day should be used to remember all genocides. There was a concentrated effort to smear her as an antisemite, despite the fact that she's Jewish, and that there's nothing remotely antisemitic in what she proposed.
- mhh__ 7y ago
  There is a small amount of fire under the smoke(screen) in that the party leadership have been either ignorant or wilfully blind towards antisemitism complaints, and have also been churning through staff in their complaints division (and then proceeded to almost smear their suicidal ex-employees, one of whom planned to commit suicide from his bosses balcony)

DoctorOetker 7y ago

[________] anyone who just finished reading the article and checked the references will think you are trolling if you re-accuse the Labour party for anti-semitism... EDIT: removed "Did you even read the article?" per the site guidelines

Singletoned 7y ago
The article is deeply biased in trying to make a point. Nothing in the article actually clears the Labour Party (as opposed to their supporters). An "independent inquiry" that they commissioned has all the weight of every other "independent inquiry" that has ever been commission, ie none. That few members of party have been investigated (by the party) is one of the problems that people are complaining about.
irb 7y ago
The article says Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem and therefore it doesn't? And yes, I checked the references, and they are not wholly convincing. A statement that only 0.06% of the Labour membership have been investigated for anti-semitism (which firstly still seems kind of high to me, and secondly obviously not being investigated for anti-semitism does not mean one is not anti-semitic) and an independent inquiry by the person who was subsequently made Labour's shadow attorney general? I'm not saying Labour is overrun by anti-semitism but let's try not to just believe the last thing we read, ok?
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Mo, the facts say that Labour doesn't have an anti-semitism problem. There has been absolutely no evidence provided by any source to prove institutional anti-semitism. There is really no evidence at all that stands up to even the most basic common sense assessment. For example - if Corbyn is an anti-Semite, he's been remarkably quiet about it. In fact he has somehow managed to stay friends with various Jewish individuals and organisations in spite of his alleged burning hatred for them. Perhaps someone should let them know? If you compare Labour's record of "anti-semitism" with the many easy-to-find examples of outright unapologetic racism of the British (and US) Right, there's no comparison. There have however been public statements by Israeli diplomats explaining that "anti-semitism" is used in a calculated and cynical way to undermine politicians who do not support Israeli nationalism. And also evidence of Israeli influencers working to "take down" - their words - British MPs. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-plotted-against-mps-set-up-political-groups-labour https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/israeli-diplom... Meanwhile the Labour MPs making the most noise about anti-semitism also happen to be the old Blairites who were horrified when Corbyn was elected leader. As you say - let's try not to just believe everything we read on this topic, ok?
  - SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
    Are you a member of the Labour party?
  - irb 7y ago
    Anti-semitism (and prejudice in general) exists on a much wider spectrum than just "burning hatred", and it is entirely possible to be friendly with members of a group that you are prejudiced against. If, perhaps, you believe that Jewish people do not integrate fully and are not "properly British", it does not prevent you from also getting on perfectly well with your Jewish next door neighbour, but you're still anti-semitic. And just as a tip, claiming that accusations of anti-semitism are a Zionist conspiracy is somewhat self-defeating.
    - crdoconnor 7y ago
vinceguidry 7y ago
As per HN guidelines, please don't ask if or insinuate that someone hasn't read the article. It's needlessly inflammatory.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

Accusations of Labour antisemitism are a cyclical ploy used by: 1. Pro-Israeli groups and politicians who want to force Labour back in line on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. 2. The Tories, to smear their opposition. 3. People within Labour who want to just the more left-wing Corbyn. The more you read about these "antisemitic incidents," the more ridiculous it gets. One perfect example was the Jewish Labour member who was accused of antisemitism because she said Holocaust memorial day should be used to remember all genocides. There was a concentrated effort to smear her as an antisemite, despite the fact that she's Jewish, and that there's nothing remotely antisemitic in what she proposed.

mhh__ 7y ago
There is a small amount of fire under the smoke(screen) in that the party leadership have been either ignorant or wilfully blind towards antisemitism complaints, and have also been churning through staff in their complaints division (and then proceeded to almost smear their suicidal ex-employees, one of whom planned to commit suicide from his bosses balcony)