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I worry that you (and me, and others) have bought in to the "flexibility" bullshit that Uber often spouts. Most people still have the same rough, basic needs.

I worry that you (and me, and others) have bought in to the "flexibility" bullshit that Uber often spouts. Most people still have the same rough, basic needs. A "supplementary" income is not enough to do this. Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job, but doesn't get the pay or protections of a full-time worker. Especially in the UK and other more regulated countries than the US, becoming an Uber driver takes time and money as you require a licence. People aren't doing it as a side-gig. It's their job. And Uber knows it.

NikolaNovak 7y ago
While I agree in general, in specific, a significant proportion of Uber drivers I've used in Canada were doing it not even for supplementary profit, but for Fun. I've been picked up in $80k vehicles by guys who did it a few hours a week to see the town, meet people, kill time in productive ways. Of course, I've also seen people who were current or ex taxi drivers, working fulltime on several services.
- kgrin 7y ago
  Taking that at face value, I'd say that "limit drivers doing it 'for fun' in exchange for better pay/protections for drivers doing it to eke out a living" seems like a reasonable trade-off...
  - i_am_proteus 7y ago
    No individual has any right to make a living doing anything they want to. If sufficient people are willing to do a job at a reduced wage because they enjoy it, that is their right. This is like saying that libraries should ban unpaid volunteers in order to justify the hiring of more librarians.
    - blub 7y ago
      Labour laws set minimum standards that all companies and employees / contractors / whatever should adhere to, because it reduces the likelihood of abuse. The "right" you mention doesn't exist in e.g. countries with minimum wage laws.
    - lazyasciiart 7y ago
      It is illegal in the US to have volunteers do work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee. That's why unpaid internships are, by default, illegal - to be legal they must replace the payment with school credit and valuable experience, basically.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  Anybody doing it for fun is going to be doing it less than 32 hours. So they'd be a part-time employee instead of a contractor. Part-time employees don't get many benefits either.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  These people are the exception that Uber uses to push its bullshit narrative. We shouldn't be buying in to it. People need dependable employment to survive and thrive.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    How do you know it's the exception? You have hard figures?
    - bigwavedave 7y ago
      No, but he has an ax to grind, which is better than data. /s
  - nostrebored 7y ago
    Why do you think this? This is absurdly regional. Do you live in the region considering the legal change and take uber regularly enough to know if it's their fte?
lazyguy2 7y ago
So instead of supplementary income you think it's better that they have no income. That's awesome. I am sure that while standing in unemployment these people are going to super appreciate your ability to see through Uber's bullshit.
chriskanan 7y ago
When I'm in NYC, it does seem like most do it as a full time job, but they like the flexible hours. In upstate NY, most Uber/Lyft drivers I talk to treat it as a side hustle, fun thing to do to chat with folks, or a post retirement activity. Based on my experience, denser cities have more drivers treating it as a full time job with multiple apps used to find riders, and in less dense areas (including LA) many drivers seem to have other non-driving jobs. I definitely find the experience much better than taxis, especially in NYC, on average.
- malandrew 7y ago
  This is very unique to NY and this is because NY regulations have made it unprofitable to be a rideshare driver for anything less than full time. NY basically killed all the part time jobs. Next time you ride with one, ask them about what they have to do to become a rideshare driver in NY and if the burden of regulations and costs paid to the state would be worth if it they were not doing the work full time.
umvi 7y ago
So basically desperate people ruin everything? Say I use Uber to take advantage of HOV lanes going to and from work (and make a little extra cash). Now because desperate people have commandeered the platform as their sole source of income, I should not be able to do that anymore? Seems like you can't have nice things at all because of this. If I make an app called "Clean Streets" that pays a dime per piece of litter picked up from local streets, desperate people would try to turn it into a full time living and I would be sued for abusing people, not paying living wage, not giving full benefits, etc. (even though I just wanted to incentivize passively cleaning up of litter, geez)
- hyperbovine 7y ago
  > So basically desperate people ruin everything? What a perfect distillation of the empathy-deficient and contemptuous attitude that a large fraction of rich, fortunate techies have towards everyone else. Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.
  - tracer4201 7y ago
    You cherry picked a part of OPs post. The rest of it is a reasonable argument. You can refute it or otherwise you’re clinging to an emotional argument and not rational one.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    Let's not infantilize these poor and "desperate" drivers who don't know any better than to be exploited by the technocrats. They were doing no better illegally sub-contracting with illegal sub-lessees of taxi medallions who themselves illegally forked out hundreds of thousands of dollars to wealthy medallion owners who hoarded them and prevented anyone else from legally procuring them. The previous taxi system ( prior to the arrival of ride-hailing apps ) was thoroughly corrupt at every level. I hope thats not up for debate. Immigrant new-arrival drivers would pay daily fixed amounts to illegally "lease" these cabs (on the daily) to those at the bottom of the chain of operators described above. They were already "part-time" (well before the arrival of Uber and Lyft) and weren't afforded many of the protections the medallion issuing body put in place. It was a thoroughly corrupt sham that the governing bodies paid little attention to and hand waived the illegal practices because they were (and are) themselves corrupt rent-seekers who were in bed with those interests they truly protected. The officials knew it. The medallion owners knew it. The sub-vendors knew it. The immigrant daily-wage-slaves knew it. This is why Uber, Lyft and others were such life savers when they arrived. Everyone hated taxi cabs.
dnautics 7y ago
Having been a full-time uber and lyft driver, I think this law is going to be a huge problem. Basically, Lyft and Uber will now force drivers to only work for one at a time. I'm also considering driving during the commute, just for kicks, and I think it would be silly to reclass me as a FTE or PTE.
1024core 7y ago
> I worry that you (and me, and others) have bought in to the "flexibility" bullshit that Uber often spouts. For as long as I have been taking Uber (which is ~5 years), I almost always make small talk with the driver. In almost every single case, they have mentioned the flexibility as a key factor as to why they drive for Uber (and yes, they also do complain about falling incomes as time has gone by).
- tracer4201 7y ago
  I don’t personally care for Uber, but I’ve used it enough for the convenience and heard the same story. For what it’s worth, I don’t think OP has much depth on this or probably has even used the service much at all. Some folks pick their social justice topic and blow it up 100x. Anyone who disagrees is a monster.
rattray 7y ago
Interesting that there aren't many side-gig drivers in the UK. I've taken Uber/Lyft in many parts of the US, and side-gig drivers are quite common. Often drivers are students, working around their schedule, part-time parents, semi-retired, or otherwise genuinely looking to supplement income. I wouldn't be surprised if barriers to entry like licenses kept these folks at bay. I also wouldn't be surprised if a stronger social safety obviated the need for supplemental income.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  Yeah, it absolutely does keep these folks at bay. As it should. I only want to get in a taxi when the driver has been carefully vetted which the licensing system provides. Uber cannot be trusted to vet drivers properly as it has no incentive to do so.
derrick_jensen 7y ago
Uber and Lyft drivers fit the definition of independent contractor perfectly. I cannot imagine how they would qualify as employees. Increasing the money required to onboard people inherently reduces the people you can serve. It would be hilarious if they stopped having Uber drivers in California and just paid Nevada Uber drivers to make the trips instead
- mcny 7y ago
  > It would be hilarious if they stopped having Uber drivers in California and just paid Nevada Uber drivers to make the trips instead Do you mean trips that begin in California and end in California? If Uber systematically does this, I'd hope to see a new law that is a "bug fix" that makes Uber CEO eligible for life in prison with no opportunity for parole for doing this.
  - derrick_jensen 7y ago
    If they can find a way to do this profitably, it shows how unrealistic California labor laws can be EDIT: Also, remember that neither Lyft or Uber have ever been profitable
imgabe 7y ago
Are they better off if Uber and Lyft go out of business and they have no jobs? Presumably if they had a better option they would be doing it.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  Uber can afford to pay more and provide more stable employment. They choose not to because it hurts their margins. Fixing this will help drivers and still won't put Uber out of business.
  - disgruntledphd2 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure Uber are still losing money, and have never shown evidence of positive unit-margin, so I'm not sure they can afford this.
- fucking_tragedy 7y ago
  There are plenty of companies and entrepreneurs that aren't artificially propped up by VC money that are waiting for any opportunity to eat Uber/Lyft's lunch. In fact, many regional ride-hailing app companies already are.
wozniacki 7y ago
Especially in the UK and other more regulated countries than the US, becoming an Uber driver takes time and money as you require a licence. People aren't doing it as a side-gig. What special abilities does London's licensing body require the driver of a black cab have to have over any other civilian driver? I know black cab drivers need to be able to memorize maps of various neighborhoods but isnt that rather antiquated in the age of advanced GPS & traffic apps that do the same job better? I'm all for thorough and deep background checks (and regulation to mandate them), to weed out sketchy drivers or those with criminal pasts, who drive for Uber & Lyft but anything beyond that is just bureaucratic over-reach & rent-seeking by the government.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  Black cabs are, again, the exception to the rule. The vast majority of Ubers in the UK are licensed to local bodies and not Transport for London. Getting a Black Cab licence in London takes _YEARS_. Becoming a licensed minicab driver takes about 1 year. > I know black cab drivers need to be able to memorize maps of various neighborhoods. I assume you're referring to what we call "The Knowledge" and it's an exam that takes literally years to pass. You have to be able to name every single road, junction and corner in the entirety of Greater London from memory. The fact that people still use black cabs (and often pay a premium to do so) shows the value in local knowledge over the Google Maps hive-mind.
  - repolfx 7y ago
    Well, or it's because a black cab is often nearby and can be easily flagged on the street, whereas Ubers are technically illegal (or did that get fixed) and cannot be spotted on the street. The Knowledge is archaic. It exists only because regulation is ossifying and because existing black cab drivers feel "I had to do it, so should they". It's literally hardly changed since the 1800s and doesn't even cover all of London, just a six mile radius from Charing Cross. Google Maps can do it better, more reliably and faster than any person, without the massive costs and overheads involved in the entire licensing and examination regime required. The amount of labour hours required for these cabbies to memorise the layout of central London alone is a staggering cost and there's no reason for it.
cletus 7y ago
Remember flexibility takes many forms being just full-time or not. Consider NYC taxi drivers. They have 4am to 4pm shifts. This creates many problems (eg getting a cab between 3pm and 4pm due to the shift change such that they had to have a special regime for those who still needed to go to the airport). What if you wanted or needed to pick up your kids after school at 3pm? That's a problem for a taxi driver. But an Uber or Lyft driver has the flexibility to simply stop accepting fares. So doing it full-time does not make these situations equivalent I guess is my point.
throw03172019 7y ago
I’ve met plenty of Uber drivers who drive to pay their car payment, insurance, etc.
vorpalhex 7y ago
> Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job That's odd, because all my Uber drivers are doing it part time. A vast majority work in fields with either odd hours (vet techs, nursing) or with breaks (teachers) and use Lyft/Uber to fill in the gaps and make extra cash. The only driver I've had in the past few months who was full time was a recent immigrant who implied he was missing some documents to be able to get a regular job.
dominotw 7y ago
two members of my family do it on the weekend. one my friend does it on off days from job at costco.
bzbarsky 7y ago
> Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job There's an interesting statistical effect here. Let's say there are 50 Uber drivers. 10 of them are doing it full-time; the others are doing it 5 hours a week for some additional income. That's 10 * 40 + 40 * 5 = 600 hours of driving per week, of which 400 is by the full-time drivers. So if you ask your driver whether they are full-time, they will say "yes" with about 2/3 probability, but the number of part-time drivers greatly exceeds the number of full-time drivers. This effect is even stronger if you typically take Uber at times when part-time drivers are less likely to drive. To your last point, location does matter a great deal here. Anecdotally, in my suburban area, I know a fair number of stay-at-home parents who do some driving on the side, esp. while the kids are in school. They most emphatically do not want to be driving full-time, or doing anything else full-time: if they wanted a full-time job they would not be stay-at-home parents. I am quite certain that this dynamic does not hold across all Uber markets, by any means.
- fucking_tragedy 7y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of employer-employee relationships that are flexible and not full-time. I'd wager to say that the majority of Americans are employed in such an arrangement.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    You would lose that wager badly; the vast majority of Americans that are in the workforce at all are employed full-time. See, e.g., https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm
    - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
      Looks like I was wrong. Thanks for the reference and stats!
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    'Flexible working' has been sold as 'the gig economy' but the reality is many people have to scrabble around doing multiple jobs to make ends meet and are playing musical chairs with short term jobs suddenly ending. Uber et al have put a glamorous sheen on this as they flaunt the wealth they have raised as middle men around mobile phone apps and enterprise scale back ends.
d1zzy 7y ago
Except that at least some of the uber drivers that I've seen most definitely do this as a side job (ie they have another primary job that has a lot of off days/variable schedule and as a side job they Uber to make some extra money). If the proposed laws allow for this kind of use case then fine. Not to mention that almost all Uber drivers I've seen have both Uber and Lyft signs in their windows so obviously they work with both. That's a good thing, gives them more choices and helps keep those companies honest and even if you argue that in practice Uber/Lyft don't seem to provide drivers the benefits of such competition (they may be colluding) then I ask you, isn't the solution to that to promote more competition? So be very careful with enacting laws if you want to create real competition to help the drivers.
stickfigure 7y ago
Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job If we're polling for anecdata, my experience has been quite the opposite. But I suspect this is very dependent on what time you ride - in evenings, I often encountered people driving for a couple hours after work.
timje1 7y ago
I often come across South Asian women driving for Uber in London while their kids are in nursery / primary school. Uber's flexibility seems to fit perfectly with a more modern view of labour vs child rearing responsibilities. There aren't anywhere near enough flexible part time jobs that stay at home mums and dads can do while their kids are in school.

NikolaNovak 7y ago

While I agree in general, in specific, a significant proportion of Uber drivers I've used in Canada were doing it not even for supplementary profit, but for Fun. I've been picked up in $80k vehicles by guys who did it a few hours a week to see the town, meet people, kill time in productive ways. Of course, I've also seen people who were current or ex taxi drivers, working fulltime on several services.

kgrin 7y ago
Taking that at face value, I'd say that "limit drivers doing it 'for fun' in exchange for better pay/protections for drivers doing it to eke out a living" seems like a reasonable trade-off...
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  No individual has any right to make a living doing anything they want to. If sufficient people are willing to do a job at a reduced wage because they enjoy it, that is their right. This is like saying that libraries should ban unpaid volunteers in order to justify the hiring of more librarians.
  - blub 7y ago
    Labour laws set minimum standards that all companies and employees / contractors / whatever should adhere to, because it reduces the likelihood of abuse. The "right" you mention doesn't exist in e.g. countries with minimum wage laws.
  - lazyasciiart 7y ago
    It is illegal in the US to have volunteers do work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee. That's why unpaid internships are, by default, illegal - to be legal they must replace the payment with school credit and valuable experience, basically.
bryanlarsen 7y ago
Anybody doing it for fun is going to be doing it less than 32 hours. So they'd be a part-time employee instead of a contractor. Part-time employees don't get many benefits either.
maxehmookau 7y ago
These people are the exception that Uber uses to push its bullshit narrative. We shouldn't be buying in to it. People need dependable employment to survive and thrive.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  How do you know it's the exception? You have hard figures?
  - bigwavedave 7y ago
    No, but he has an ax to grind, which is better than data. /s
- nostrebored 7y ago
  Why do you think this? This is absurdly regional. Do you live in the region considering the legal change and take uber regularly enough to know if it's their fte?

lazyguy2 7y ago

So instead of supplementary income you think it's better that they have no income. That's awesome. I am sure that while standing in unemployment these people are going to super appreciate your ability to see through Uber's bullshit.

chriskanan 7y ago

When I'm in NYC, it does seem like most do it as a full time job, but they like the flexible hours. In upstate NY, most Uber/Lyft drivers I talk to treat it as a side hustle, fun thing to do to chat with folks, or a post retirement activity. Based on my experience, denser cities have more drivers treating it as a full time job with multiple apps used to find riders, and in less dense areas (including LA) many drivers seem to have other non-driving jobs. I definitely find the experience much better than taxis, especially in NYC, on average.

malandrew 7y ago
This is very unique to NY and this is because NY regulations have made it unprofitable to be a rideshare driver for anything less than full time. NY basically killed all the part time jobs. Next time you ride with one, ask them about what they have to do to become a rideshare driver in NY and if the burden of regulations and costs paid to the state would be worth if it they were not doing the work full time.

umvi 7y ago

So basically desperate people ruin everything? Say I use Uber to take advantage of HOV lanes going to and from work (and make a little extra cash). Now because desperate people have commandeered the platform as their sole source of income, I should not be able to do that anymore? Seems like you can't have nice things at all because of this. If I make an app called "Clean Streets" that pays a dime per piece of litter picked up from local streets, desperate people would try to turn it into a full time living and I would be sued for abusing people, not paying living wage, not giving full benefits, etc. (even though I just wanted to incentivize passively cleaning up of litter, geez)

hyperbovine 7y ago
> So basically desperate people ruin everything? What a perfect distillation of the empathy-deficient and contemptuous attitude that a large fraction of rich, fortunate techies have towards everyone else. Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.
- tracer4201 7y ago
  You cherry picked a part of OPs post. The rest of it is a reasonable argument. You can refute it or otherwise you’re clinging to an emotional argument and not rational one.
- wozniacki 7y ago
  Let's not infantilize these poor and "desperate" drivers who don't know any better than to be exploited by the technocrats. They were doing no better illegally sub-contracting with illegal sub-lessees of taxi medallions who themselves illegally forked out hundreds of thousands of dollars to wealthy medallion owners who hoarded them and prevented anyone else from legally procuring them. The previous taxi system ( prior to the arrival of ride-hailing apps ) was thoroughly corrupt at every level. I hope thats not up for debate. Immigrant new-arrival drivers would pay daily fixed amounts to illegally "lease" these cabs (on the daily) to those at the bottom of the chain of operators described above. They were already "part-time" (well before the arrival of Uber and Lyft) and weren't afforded many of the protections the medallion issuing body put in place. It was a thoroughly corrupt sham that the governing bodies paid little attention to and hand waived the illegal practices because they were (and are) themselves corrupt rent-seekers who were in bed with those interests they truly protected. The officials knew it. The medallion owners knew it. The sub-vendors knew it. The immigrant daily-wage-slaves knew it. This is why Uber, Lyft and others were such life savers when they arrived. Everyone hated taxi cabs.

dnautics 7y ago

Having been a full-time uber and lyft driver, I think this law is going to be a huge problem. Basically, Lyft and Uber will now force drivers to only work for one at a time. I'm also considering driving during the commute, just for kicks, and I think it would be silly to reclass me as a FTE or PTE.

1024core 7y ago

> I worry that you (and me, and others) have bought in to the "flexibility" bullshit that Uber often spouts. For as long as I have been taking Uber (which is ~5 years), I almost always make small talk with the driver. In almost every single case, they have mentioned the flexibility as a key factor as to why they drive for Uber (and yes, they also do complain about falling incomes as time has gone by).

tracer4201 7y ago
I don’t personally care for Uber, but I’ve used it enough for the convenience and heard the same story. For what it’s worth, I don’t think OP has much depth on this or probably has even used the service much at all. Some folks pick their social justice topic and blow it up 100x. Anyone who disagrees is a monster.

rattray 7y ago

Interesting that there aren't many side-gig drivers in the UK. I've taken Uber/Lyft in many parts of the US, and side-gig drivers are quite common. Often drivers are students, working around their schedule, part-time parents, semi-retired, or otherwise genuinely looking to supplement income. I wouldn't be surprised if barriers to entry like licenses kept these folks at bay. I also wouldn't be surprised if a stronger social safety obviated the need for supplemental income.

maxehmookau 7y ago
Yeah, it absolutely does keep these folks at bay. As it should. I only want to get in a taxi when the driver has been carefully vetted which the licensing system provides. Uber cannot be trusted to vet drivers properly as it has no incentive to do so.

derrick_jensen 7y ago

Uber and Lyft drivers fit the definition of independent contractor perfectly. I cannot imagine how they would qualify as employees. Increasing the money required to onboard people inherently reduces the people you can serve. It would be hilarious if they stopped having Uber drivers in California and just paid Nevada Uber drivers to make the trips instead

mcny 7y ago
> It would be hilarious if they stopped having Uber drivers in California and just paid Nevada Uber drivers to make the trips instead Do you mean trips that begin in California and end in California? If Uber systematically does this, I'd hope to see a new law that is a "bug fix" that makes Uber CEO eligible for life in prison with no opportunity for parole for doing this.
- derrick_jensen 7y ago
  If they can find a way to do this profitably, it shows how unrealistic California labor laws can be EDIT: Also, remember that neither Lyft or Uber have ever been profitable

imgabe 7y ago

Are they better off if Uber and Lyft go out of business and they have no jobs? Presumably if they had a better option they would be doing it.

maxehmookau 7y ago
Uber can afford to pay more and provide more stable employment. They choose not to because it hurts their margins. Fixing this will help drivers and still won't put Uber out of business.
- disgruntledphd2 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure Uber are still losing money, and have never shown evidence of positive unit-margin, so I'm not sure they can afford this.
fucking_tragedy 7y ago
There are plenty of companies and entrepreneurs that aren't artificially propped up by VC money that are waiting for any opportunity to eat Uber/Lyft's lunch. In fact, many regional ride-hailing app companies already are.

wozniacki 7y ago

Especially in the UK and other more regulated countries than the US, becoming an Uber driver takes time and money as you require a licence. People aren't doing it as a side-gig. What special abilities does London's licensing body require the driver of a black cab have to have over any other civilian driver? I know black cab drivers need to be able to memorize maps of various neighborhoods but isnt that rather antiquated in the age of advanced GPS & traffic apps that do the same job better? I'm all for thorough and deep background checks (and regulation to mandate them), to weed out sketchy drivers or those with criminal pasts, who drive for Uber & Lyft but anything beyond that is just bureaucratic over-reach & rent-seeking by the government.

maxehmookau 7y ago
Black cabs are, again, the exception to the rule. The vast majority of Ubers in the UK are licensed to local bodies and not Transport for London. Getting a Black Cab licence in London takes _YEARS_. Becoming a licensed minicab driver takes about 1 year. > I know black cab drivers need to be able to memorize maps of various neighborhoods. I assume you're referring to what we call "The Knowledge" and it's an exam that takes literally years to pass. You have to be able to name every single road, junction and corner in the entirety of Greater London from memory. The fact that people still use black cabs (and often pay a premium to do so) shows the value in local knowledge over the Google Maps hive-mind.
- repolfx 7y ago
  Well, or it's because a black cab is often nearby and can be easily flagged on the street, whereas Ubers are technically illegal (or did that get fixed) and cannot be spotted on the street. The Knowledge is archaic. It exists only because regulation is ossifying and because existing black cab drivers feel "I had to do it, so should they". It's literally hardly changed since the 1800s and doesn't even cover all of London, just a six mile radius from Charing Cross. Google Maps can do it better, more reliably and faster than any person, without the massive costs and overheads involved in the entire licensing and examination regime required. The amount of labour hours required for these cabbies to memorise the layout of central London alone is a staggering cost and there's no reason for it.

cletus 7y ago

Remember flexibility takes many forms being just full-time or not. Consider NYC taxi drivers. They have 4am to 4pm shifts. This creates many problems (eg getting a cab between 3pm and 4pm due to the shift change such that they had to have a special regime for those who still needed to go to the airport). What if you wanted or needed to pick up your kids after school at 3pm? That's a problem for a taxi driver. But an Uber or Lyft driver has the flexibility to simply stop accepting fares. So doing it full-time does not make these situations equivalent I guess is my point.

throw03172019 7y ago

I’ve met plenty of Uber drivers who drive to pay their car payment, insurance, etc.

vorpalhex 7y ago

> Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job That's odd, because all my Uber drivers are doing it part time. A vast majority work in fields with either odd hours (vet techs, nursing) or with breaks (teachers) and use Lyft/Uber to fill in the gaps and make extra cash. The only driver I've had in the past few months who was full time was a recent immigrant who implied he was missing some documents to be able to get a regular job.

dominotw 7y ago

two members of my family do it on the weekend. one my friend does it on off days from job at costco.

bzbarsky 7y ago

> Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job There's an interesting statistical effect here. Let's say there are 50 Uber drivers. 10 of them are doing it full-time; the others are doing it 5 hours a week for some additional income. That's 10 * 40 + 40 * 5 = 600 hours of driving per week, of which 400 is by the full-time drivers. So if you ask your driver whether they are full-time, they will say "yes" with about 2/3 probability, but the number of part-time drivers greatly exceeds the number of full-time drivers. This effect is even stronger if you typically take Uber at times when part-time drivers are less likely to drive. To your last point, location does matter a great deal here. Anecdotally, in my suburban area, I know a fair number of stay-at-home parents who do some driving on the side, esp. while the kids are in school. They most emphatically do not want to be driving full-time, or doing anything else full-time: if they wanted a full-time job they would not be stay-at-home parents. I am quite certain that this dynamic does not hold across all Uber markets, by any means.

fucking_tragedy 7y ago
This is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of employer-employee relationships that are flexible and not full-time. I'd wager to say that the majority of Americans are employed in such an arrangement.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  You would lose that wager badly; the vast majority of Americans that are in the workforce at all are employed full-time. See, e.g., https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm
  - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
    Looks like I was wrong. Thanks for the reference and stats!
- olivermarks 7y ago
  'Flexible working' has been sold as 'the gig economy' but the reality is many people have to scrabble around doing multiple jobs to make ends meet and are playing musical chairs with short term jobs suddenly ending. Uber et al have put a glamorous sheen on this as they flaunt the wealth they have raised as middle men around mobile phone apps and enterprise scale back ends.

d1zzy 7y ago

Except that at least some of the uber drivers that I've seen most definitely do this as a side job (ie they have another primary job that has a lot of off days/variable schedule and as a side job they Uber to make some extra money). If the proposed laws allow for this kind of use case then fine. Not to mention that almost all Uber drivers I've seen have both Uber and Lyft signs in their windows so obviously they work with both. That's a good thing, gives them more choices and helps keep those companies honest and even if you argue that in practice Uber/Lyft don't seem to provide drivers the benefits of such competition (they may be colluding) then I ask you, isn't the solution to that to promote more competition? So be very careful with enacting laws if you want to create real competition to help the drivers.

stickfigure 7y ago

Every single Uber driver I've ever asked does it as a full-time job If we're polling for anecdata, my experience has been quite the opposite. But I suspect this is very dependent on what time you ride - in evenings, I often encountered people driving for a couple hours after work.

timje1 7y ago

I often come across South Asian women driving for Uber in London while their kids are in nursery / primary school. Uber's flexibility seems to fit perfectly with a more modern view of labour vs child rearing responsibilities. There aren't anywhere near enough flexible part time jobs that stay at home mums and dads can do while their kids are in school.