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You Can Now Tell Facebook to Delete Its Internal Record of Your Face

296 points by Garbage 7y ago

dastx 7y ago
"We've got all the data we need, you may now opt out" ¯\(°_o)/¯
fromthestart 7y ago
>It’s an assurance that Facebook isn’t actually retaining data that it could use again someday to recognize your face. Given fb's history of lying, it's only an assurance that they won't overtly use such data. No guarantee that they're not still storing it on a server somewhere, and good luck proving as much. Also, what does this mean for people without accounts that are being tracked? I wonder if facial data is collected on them too, after being labeled by friends.
- dymk 7y ago
  Where has Facebook been caught lying? They've surely done many things you don't like, but they've not lied about doing those things.
  - fromthestart 7y ago
    For starters: techcrunch.com/2018/06/27/study-calls-out-dark-patterns-in-facebook-and-google-that-push-users-towards-less-privacy/ www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/facebook-accused-of-misleading-advertisers-then-trying-to-hide-it/ theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/facebook-violating-privacy-mark-zuckerberg FB's entire business model is fundamentally in conflict with any semblance of privacy. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of Zuckerberg's mouth is beyond me. FB is built around exploitation of user ignorance, apathy, and unwarranted trust. Make no mistake, no matter how much these dangerously charismatic CEOs speak about positive changes to society, modern large tech companies are 100% self serving and always engaged in carefully prepared corporate doublespeak. They don't give any kind of a shit about your privacy when it is directly tied to the bulk of their revenue. What motivation does fb actually have to delete facial recognition data like they claim, as opposed to just quietly storing it somewhere on the back end? There's no legal requirement and if they get caught, the only people who would care are the kind who by and large have already moved off FB. Meanwhile the upside is huge for future facial recognition applications - this is a massive goldmine of very sensitive personal data.
  - jakear 7y ago
    From stallman.org: Facebook made deals for phone and computer manufacturers including Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Samsung to access data about its useds and their friends as well. These deals seem to still be operative. [1] When Zuckerberg testified to Congress, he said Facebook had stopped doing this years ago [2]. Apparently he lied. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/03/technology/facebook-device-partners-users-friends-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/03/technology/fa... 2: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/sure-looks-zuckerberg-lied-congress-about-user-privacy-new-facebook-data-sharing https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/sure-looks-zuck...
konart 7y ago
Of course I can. The question is - will they actually delete it everywhere inside their data storages or will they just send me a 200 response code.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  And what exactly does "delete" mean? It's removed from production, or it's also scoured from backups?
  - jimclegg 7y ago
    After I give them the data required to prove I'm authorized to delete the template, what happens to that data? Trusting Facebook... rather jump down a well.
  - DannyB2 7y ago
    It is deleted, then added to a list of deleted faces. Just so they can be sure not to re-add it later. Yeah. That's it! And they're sticking with that story.
    - throwaway2048 7y ago
      Sensing another Zuckerberg promise "to do better" in the works already.
      - dayjah 7y ago
        At Amazon new products have a press release written during the spec phase (to help frame the pitch internally); I presume, at this point, fb writes an apology during spec phase...
      - ALittleLight 7y ago
        Has he already apologized for the recent release of a half billion phone numbers?
t3f 7y ago
>When you opt out of facial recognition on Facebook, the company will delete your template, meaning it will have no original reference point for your face and therefore cannot find your face at all. The details are pretty sparse. It would be nice if they clarified how they manage black-listing your template ID somewhere but still disconnect it from your profile. If you opt-ed back in at some point, they need to know to remove you from that black-list, which might imply there's still some sort of connection from your profile to a template ID or maybe the generic template still exists but they're disallowed to associate it to a profile and it's in some shadow table?
- tsumnia 7y ago
  Plus, just as another layer of "I don't trust this". I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup. My only assumption is that Facebook is too big to properly manage that piece of specific knowledge and will delete it, but I'll still be there somewhere. Or I'll magically opt back in because of something like Messenger or whatever. Considering the news about Google circumventing their own GDPR restrictions, I just assume these companies aren't following through with any of their promises.
  - jefftk 7y ago
    > I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup. That sounds like a violation of the CAN-SPAM act, and you could consider suing them.
    - tsumnia 7y ago
      Yes, but the hassle of deleting their email once every few months isn't enough to make suing them worth it. Plus, that doesn't really resolve the issue that requesting to be take off things doesn't actually remove me (the original concern of these comments)
amflare 7y ago
Okay, but how will they know if the face they found is yours, and thus should not be found?
- dymk 7y ago
  This is actually an exception that GDPR makes for storing data - companies can keep around some sort of record to "tombstone" users. Sort of. GDPR is so woefully under-specified in some places, and general in others, it's really entirely up to the will of the regulators what would count as a violation.
- e12e 7y ago
  I wonder about this too. They say they delete the template (the statistical model they know is your face). Ok. So now I register a new fb profile, using a picture of you, opting in to facial recognition. Now what? They can't match the picture against your profile, because they've deleted the template?
munherty 7y ago
What do they mean by "delete" ? Is this only FB? What about its 279387429 other connectors
gnu8 7y ago
I shouldn’t have to tell Facebook to delete something it should never have had to begin with. How are we going to force Facebook to stop doing terrible things forever?
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  The article makes it sound like an ominous surveillance feature with not justifiable product reasons, so I should point out that this powers beneficial features like face recognition for image accessibility. Thanks to face recognition, blind people can know who's in a photo. https://www.facebook.com/accessibility/videos/new-face-face-recognition-features/1628143837229335/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibility/videos/new-face-face-... Remove yourself if you want to, but people should be aware there's also a useful side of this.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    That there exists useful product reasons is beside the point. The point is that people who don't want their data to be involved should not have their data be involved.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      Yes, it's good that you can opt out now. But I think articles like this are doing a disservice by glossing over the negative effects of opting out. People choosing to remove their data from this should be aware that if they have visually impaired friends on facebook (or even friends of friends, depending on sharing settings) you will be degrading accessibility features that they probably use. And it's great to let people make their own choice about whether they're OK with Facebook having face recognition of them, but encouraging people to disable it without at least mentioning that image tags are an accessibility feature is a dick move. It's framed as just "this will remove features that you might not care about," but blind people need the image tags more than you do.
- adamisom 7y ago
  So, just to be clear.. when a person signs up for.. wait for it... Facebook... they shouldn’t expect that Facebook has an image of their... face?
ilikehurdles 7y ago
What do I have to do to get facebook to delete this after I already deleted my account 3 years ago?
- wronglebowski 7y ago
  Seconded, I'm in the same boat. I realize attempting to wipe my data from all the various sources it may be in across the web is futile but I'd still like to try.
  - windexh8er 7y ago
    Until Facebook states they won't store/analyze faces they can't recognize then everyone who has never had an account or deleted their account are at a disadvantage. I've always wondered if COPPA could be used against Facebook with regard to this. Theoretical situation: I'm a parent and I find an image of my child (under 13 years of age). Facebook never notified me of they were storing my child's image. Facebook would argue they didn't know. But Facebook already scanned the image and likely guessed the child's age - and knew they were under 13. In that situation Facebook should be required to remove the image based on the fact they cannot notify the guardian. I realize this would have severe repercussions to their operational model, but that's also the point. Or... If I find an image Facebook didn't notify me about - then I'll take that $42,000 per image. Seems fair.
toss1 7y ago
FB is known to build profiles of pretty much everyone it encounters, even vicariously, ostensibly to be able to populate a new account with engaging info once they actually join. Can I tell them to delete the records of my face that they keep even though I don't have an account? And, of course, in all instances. will they actually expunge it from all locations in their data-universe?
DannyB2 7y ago
Shouldn't it be that I have to tell Facebook what they are allowed to keep? Especially since I have never had and never will have a FB account.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  That's what you think. Your shadow profile is probably there, waiting for you should you ever claim it.
flippyhead 7y ago
Sorry, but... So I don't have to go hunting for it (and get stuck in facebook land reading updates!) can some one provide a link to the place where this setting resides? Thank you!
- Chirael 7y ago
  Yes please. I hate articles like this that tell you what Facebook will now allow you to do... but don't give you the actual link where you could do it yourself _right now_. Makes me think these articles are actually Facebook PR which wants to control the narrative on the feature and deliberately not make it easy to find where to do it.
gouggoug 7y ago
Interestingly, I just went into my account and I was already opted-out. Is this the case for everybody? If so, that's a very surprising move coming from FB.
rootw0rm 7y ago
okay....so how do you opt-out?
plg 7y ago
Can I opt out if I'm not a Facebook user? i.e. opt out of having them store records of my face? PS don't tell me they don't have records of my face
laythea 7y ago
Surely after their AI neural net thingamybob has absorbed your face, FB doesn't care about deleting your face, as their model has already benefited from it?
ooklala 7y ago
Didn’t this happen over a year ago? (in the EU at least) https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-facial-recognition-opt-out-settings-lawsuit-turn-off-gdpr-eu https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-facial-recognition-...
ldayley 7y ago
How does a person without a facebook account accomplish this though? Even without an account it’s likely that fb has several dozens of photos of me via other people’s posts.
b_tterc_p 7y ago
Despite the headline I don’t see anything about deleting data. Just that it won’t try to recognize you. That being said, I went on my profile to check and it was already set to No (don’t do facial recognition). Is this the default? Or is this actually an old thing that I disabled a long time ago.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
RyanAF7 7y ago
uh oh...here comes the facial data leak
parliament32 7y ago
This help page[1] claims you can go to Settings > Facial Recognition, but I don't have that option under Settings... [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203
andrewgioia 7y ago
Can anyone figure out how to actually turn this off? After bouncing around in Facebook's help docs I found the steps[1] but don't see the option. Click the down arrow at the top right, then Settings. There _should_ be a "Face Recognition" item in the left but not for me. This is so frustrating and part of me thinks they just disable this for a bit so 90% of people forget. [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/187272841323203
- ragerino 7y ago
  I checked it in the Android app, and I was able to find it and it was already deactivated. I remember doing this a while ago. But it was burried in Facebooks settings. Here is how you can do it on Android. 1. Click on the menu icon (three horizontal lines) in the top toolbar. 2. Scroll down, expand "Settings & Privacy" if not expanded, and click "Settings". Don't fall for those privacy shortcuts. Facebook will hide a lot of settings from you. 3. Scroll down and you should see the " Face Recognition" entry in the Privacy category. Hope this helps. PS: I personally find it lame, that Facebook needs to make it as much confusing as possible to find those settings.
blackflame7000 7y ago
And they totally will from most of their archives wink wink. Who is really capable of verifying this actually happens that doesn't also have a vested interest in Facebook?
MilnerRoute 7y ago
I can't find the setting to disable this. The EFF says they "have questions" about how Facebook is implementing this. "Throughout Facebook’s deliberately vague announcement, it takes great pains to note that the change applies only to new Facebook users and people who currently have the “tag suggestions” setting. However, Facebook migrated many, if not most, existing users from “tag suggestions” to “face recognition” in December 2017 (see here for Facebook’s explanation of the difference between tag suggestions and face recognition). That means this safeguard does not apply to the billions of current Facebook users who have already been moved." https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/09/facebook-changing-its-face-recognition-settings-we-have-questions https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/09/facebook-changing-its-...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- noer 7y ago
  The URL when I found it was: https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=facerec https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=facerec If that URL doesn't work I went to Settings and there's a tab for "Facial Recognition" on the left rail. Between "Language and Regions" and "Notifications"
  - MilnerRoute 7y ago
    I really appreciate you posting this. Just to confirm my experience: when I click on that link, I see "General Account Settings" (like name, username, contact... Everything that's available from the first left-hand menu choice.) And no where in that left-hand menu is there any choice about Face Recognition. I do have a left-hand menu choice about "Timeline and Tagging" -- but there's still nothing there about face recognition.
    - noer 7y ago
      Here's what my left hand menu looks like: https://imgur.com/a/dFPibMc https://imgur.com/a/dFPibMc I'd guess that it's a feature that's being gradually rolled out to all accounts. I originally posted it because I was frustrated that I didn't see a link to the setting in the article, but I guess I understand why there was no link.
Zelphyr 7y ago
This is great for the new users it appears to apply to. But what about people like me? I haven't had a Facebook account in seven years. Yet, I'm not delusional to believe they don't still have my data (yes, I "deleted" it) along with my picture. So every time my wife posts a picture with me in it to Facebook, they know where I am.
JohnFen 7y ago
...and Facebook will tell you it's deleted. But why should anyone believe them?
lwansbrough 7y ago
How do I do this if I’ve already deleted my Facebook profile? I know Facebook is still holding some data on me because the “that account doesn’t exist” page it shows when I type in my former account email is subtly different than the page when I type in an email I know doesn’t exist.
- DevKoala 7y ago
  I am in the same boat.
  - teamspirit 7y ago
    Exactly my problem too. It almost feels like I have to have a Facebook account just to opt out of Facebook's tracking. Furthermore, and as others have stated, what about all the time my face may appear in other's photos?
- pesenti 7y ago
  If you are not or no longer are a Facebook user or you do not have the Face Recognition on, we will not create or store a face template to recognize you. Source/Disclaimer: I work at FB and this feature is managed by my team.
  - mellowdream 7y ago
    I deleted my FB account a few days ago, and reactivated it today (within the 30-day permanent deletion cancel period) to see if I could delete FB's record of my face data. Like some others in this thread, I couldn't see any option to do so. Do I need to wait for this option to be rolled out to my account (and how long will that take)? Can I delete my account anyway without this option having shown up? (While ensuring FB doesn't have records of my face?)
  - e_proxus 7y ago
    What about having a disabled account (the option where you can continue to use Messenger)? With a disabled account you can't log-in to check the settings because Facebook will automatically enable the account again.
d10 7y ago
I'll speculate that facebook will never "delete its internal record of your face" as the title states. They're using misleading words to make this sound like a significant concession, when it isn't. Suppose Alice appears in photos with Bob. And that Carol appears in other photos with the same Bob. Facebook can infer the Alice..Bob..Carol relationships. If Bob "opts-out", facebook will still know that Alice appears in photos with unnamed person, and also that Carol appears with same unnamed person. So they'll infer the Alice..unnamed person..Carol relationships. If, hypothetically, facebook offered Bob the option "do not use my face in your algorithms." Then maybe they wouldn't link Alice and Carol. But all facebook is offering here is "don't associate my face to my account". This cleverly gives facebook some cover. Bob might ask facebook, "don't use my face to surveil my friends", but facebook can say "how could we possibly do that? We don't associate your face with your account, so we can't associate your face with your preference, even if we wanted to."
- rhacker 7y ago
  We'll end up with a website called "Do Not UseMyFace" and you'll take a picture of your face and upload it to the FCC in an effort to stop RoboFacing.
  - sverige 7y ago
    Which will ensure that not only Facebook but also every other social media outlet will now have your face tied to your identity.
    - rhacker 7y ago
      No no you ruined the joke that comes 15 years later!!!!
    - c0vfefe 7y ago
      They might as well call the site "PleaseHackMe."
- blancNoir 7y ago
  From the article: "When you opt out of facial recognition on Facebook, the company will delete your template, meaning it will have no original reference point for your face and therefore cannot find your face at all." ... When people turn off their face recognition setting, we can no longer create a face template for them for any purpose, including A.I. research,” the spokesperson told OneZero.
noobdood 7y ago
"You can now tell Facebook to " $* Slowly, with me, now: Hah. Hah. Hah.
eugeniub 7y ago
This is getting tiring. I have to submit a form to tell Facebook to delete data about my face. Submit a form to opt out of binding arbitration for each credit card. Submit a form to avoid being tracked. This whole mess puts a huge onus on the average internet user, and acts like it's the user's own fault if they're every movement and action is being tracked by a hundred entities at once.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  Yeah, i get that there might be some people who only want to delete a few particular things, but there should be blanket options for entire categories of data, and any tracking/marketing data about you that you yourself did not provide to them.
- mjevans 7y ago
  I've never had, and intend to never have, an account with Facebook or any of their services. Can we please have sane legal defaults like Facebook ONLY having data profiles for those who have agreed to the creation of such profiles?
  - smt88 7y ago
    Sane legal defaults are great and necessary, but not enough. Google has iffy GDPR compliance to begin with and has now been caught circumventing it. Nothing will be effective short of jailtime for the execs responsible for flouting laws and public trust (not for making a mistake, but actually engineering workarounds).
  - ufmace 7y ago
    Thing about that, Facebook is known to construct "shadow profiles" of people who don't have normal profiles, just to correlate all of the data they happen to gather on you from having their tendrils on half the sites on the internet. It might be better off to create a profile with your info just to turn off as many things as you can, and not interact with anybody on it.
- ConcernedCoder 7y ago
ineedasername 7y ago
In other words, they've trained their models enough that they can now be ethical about this one particular piece of data.
DevKoala 7y ago
I deleted my Facebook account months ago. Does that mean all of the other records were deleted?
orf 7y ago
Of course they don’t delete it, which is why they know not to automatically tag you.
YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago
yeah? Zuckerberg promised? suuure
meddlepal 7y ago
How do you do this if you no longer have a Facebook account? I am sure they have my data but I deleted my account several years ago and I don't plan to reactivate it.
Rafuino 7y ago
I've had this setting disabled for I want to say over a year now. Was I part of some early pilot or something? I followed the instructions here (https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203) and it was already set to "No". What the heck?
pesenti 7y ago
More info: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/update-face-recognition/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/update-face-recognition... The feature is now opt-in. It is turned off for all new users and for those who only had the "tag suggestion" setting on. Disclaimer: I work at Facebook and this feature is managed by my team.
- joeblau 7y ago
  I deleted my facebook account years ago — how do I delete myself?
  - pesenti 7y ago
    If you are not a Facebook user or you do not have the Face Recognition on, we will not create or store a face template to recognize you.
    - chinathrow 7y ago
      Is that the truth or will a court later fine your company for lying?
      - jrockway 7y ago
        When you ask hypotheticals like this, it comes across as an attack. When you attack people, they stop showing up to share their unique knowledge and experience.
        IllogicalLogic 7y ago
        Facebook's chronic underhanded tactics requires one to ask for confirmation. The onus is on the dishonest party not the victims. Good that he asked... we all should more.
- lightedman 7y ago
  When are you going to fix the 2FA account issue I noted last year? I'm beyond responsible disclosure times, y'all have been totally silent (which has had the consequence of me being unable to access my account for a year) and I think I'd like to be going public with it really soon.
ThrustVectoring 7y ago
It'll be extremely difficult for the face-identification algorithm to not run on your face without remembering what your face looks like. Their algorithm is probably a two-step process: find where all the faces are in the photograph, and then attempt to match the found faces to user profiles. It's extremely probable that every failure-to-match gets logged somewhere, and probably annotated with extra data. Will Facebook wind up deleting your facial recognition data only to recreate it without the tie to your profile? It seems extremely likely, unless they keep some list of "deleted faces" and tell the match-to-profile algorithm to discard any results from that list. And that seems very different from actually deleting your face record.
andrerm 7y ago
This is misleading to the point it's almost propaganda. From Facebooks announcement [1] > ... if you’re in a photo and are part of the audience for that post, we’ll notify you, even if you haven’t been tagged. You’re in control of your image on Facebook and can make choices such as whether to tag yourself, leave yourself untagged, or reach out to the person who posted the photo if you have concerns about it. [1] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/12/managing-your-identity-on-facebook-with-face-recognition-technology/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/12/managing-your-identity-...
- clebio 7y ago
  What the even what. This is double speak.
squarefoot 7y ago
I still can't use it and won't be able to, probably forever. I'm not on Facebook and I don't have plans to become part of that thing for the next two centuries or so, but a lot of people I happen to share the same geographical coordinates do. They take and upload photos at events thinking everyone wants to appear in their videos. Now imagine -as someone who strives every single day to stay away from that platform and all associated things- playing an instrument at a dinner and realizing there are no less than half the people there pointing a cellphone at you. How in the Universe can I ask people I don't ever recall the name not to shoot videos of me, or at least not put them on Facebook because once they do I can't ask Facebook to delete them because I don't have a Facebook account? The real problem here is that I am already somewhere on Facebook since forever although I firmly refuse to be part of it, and I have no way of telling them to delete all my data, short of making an account, which would negate everything I am struggling for. This is crazy. A while ago I proposed somewhere (probably here, can't recall for sure) a barcode which if shown (worn?) tells the system used to shoot the video that the associated human doesn't want to appear, so that the whole person is deleted from the scene. Now that the random-faces technology has progressed, I would add some AI that swaps that person with a fake one so that the photo won't be ruined by an empty area. In the meantime we could create human readable symbols telling if and how we want our image to be used and instruct people how to use them, then one day hopefully if someone posts a photo of me while wearing a patch/shirt/whatever with a crossed camera, I can force that person to delete the photo or sue the platform that keeps it online. Of course there should be exceptions for well known public figures and/or public officers during service (read: the heck I'm not uploading a photo of say police abuse even if the cop wears a 5 meters wide photo of a crossed camera!).
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  What infuriates me is when parents do this to other people's children without asking. It's now just a given you'll be uploaded onto some giant corporations systems from birth to death.
throwawaywego 7y ago
Give me physical opt-out. A "robots.txt"/do-not-track for computer surveillance spiders. Let me wear a necklace or QR code on my shoulder, and any commercial face tracking software, is required to create a big black blindspot where my facial micro-expressions used to be.
- johnday 7y ago
  The implication that everyone is forced to do something, forever, in order to not have their privacy violated, is a little silly. Explicit opt-ins should be the only legal method.
- stordoff 7y ago
  And then the minute it even isn't slightly visible, Facebook et al will likely take that as you consenting.
patient_zero 7y ago
I can "tell" them. What a farce. Until the title reads "New Law Criminalizes Sale of Private Data Without Consent", this crazy train will never stop.
Taniwha 7y ago
So how do I do this if I'm not a facebook user? you can't even contact facebook by email to tell them to stop sending spam because they've allowed another user to sign up using your email address - they have no outward facing public email address
apricot 7y ago
I mean you could always tell Facebook to do whatever.
falcongod082 7y ago
You can now tell the Queen of England to make you a Knight!
candeira 7y ago
I read this as "You can now 100% confirm to Facebook that, indeed, that is your face".
nameisu 7y ago
where is the actual form/ link lol? Cant seem to find it
markdown 7y ago
Is this for the people who haven't already legally prevented FB from using your face? I fixed this years ago by copypasting a legal message on my FB account refusing FB this permission. They have no right to use my photo for any means whatsoever without my express written permission.
nextstep 7y ago
How can I, someone without a Facebook profile, ask Facebook to delete my internal profile?

296 points by Garbage 7y ago

"We've got all the data we need, you may now opt out" ¯\(°_o)/¯

>It’s an assurance that Facebook isn’t actually retaining data that it could use again someday to recognize your face. Given fb's history of lying, it's only an assurance that they won't overtly use such data. No guarantee that they're not still storing it on a server somewhere, and good luck proving as much. Also, what does this mean for people without accounts that are being tracked? I wonder if facial data is collected on them too, after being labeled by friends.

dymk 7y ago
Where has Facebook been caught lying? They've surely done many things you don't like, but they've not lied about doing those things.
- fromthestart 7y ago
  For starters: techcrunch.com/2018/06/27/study-calls-out-dark-patterns-in-facebook-and-google-that-push-users-towards-less-privacy/ www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/facebook-accused-of-misleading-advertisers-then-trying-to-hide-it/ theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/facebook-violating-privacy-mark-zuckerberg FB's entire business model is fundamentally in conflict with any semblance of privacy. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of Zuckerberg's mouth is beyond me. FB is built around exploitation of user ignorance, apathy, and unwarranted trust. Make no mistake, no matter how much these dangerously charismatic CEOs speak about positive changes to society, modern large tech companies are 100% self serving and always engaged in carefully prepared corporate doublespeak. They don't give any kind of a shit about your privacy when it is directly tied to the bulk of their revenue. What motivation does fb actually have to delete facial recognition data like they claim, as opposed to just quietly storing it somewhere on the back end? There's no legal requirement and if they get caught, the only people who would care are the kind who by and large have already moved off FB. Meanwhile the upside is huge for future facial recognition applications - this is a massive goldmine of very sensitive personal data.
- jakear 7y ago
  From stallman.org: Facebook made deals for phone and computer manufacturers including Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Samsung to access data about its useds and their friends as well. These deals seem to still be operative. [1] When Zuckerberg testified to Congress, he said Facebook had stopped doing this years ago [2]. Apparently he lied. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/03/technology/facebook-device-partners-users-friends-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/03/technology/fa... 2: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/sure-looks-zuckerberg-lied-congress-about-user-privacy-new-facebook-data-sharing https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/sure-looks-zuck...

konart 7y ago

Of course I can. The question is - will they actually delete it everywhere inside their data storages or will they just send me a 200 response code.

reaperducer 7y ago
And what exactly does "delete" mean? It's removed from production, or it's also scoured from backups?
- jimclegg 7y ago
  After I give them the data required to prove I'm authorized to delete the template, what happens to that data? Trusting Facebook... rather jump down a well.
- DannyB2 7y ago
  It is deleted, then added to a list of deleted faces. Just so they can be sure not to re-add it later. Yeah. That's it! And they're sticking with that story.
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    Sensing another Zuckerberg promise "to do better" in the works already.
    - dayjah 7y ago
      At Amazon new products have a press release written during the spec phase (to help frame the pitch internally); I presume, at this point, fb writes an apology during spec phase...
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      Has he already apologized for the recent release of a half billion phone numbers?

t3f 7y ago

>When you opt out of facial recognition on Facebook, the company will delete your template, meaning it will have no original reference point for your face and therefore cannot find your face at all. The details are pretty sparse. It would be nice if they clarified how they manage black-listing your template ID somewhere but still disconnect it from your profile. If you opt-ed back in at some point, they need to know to remove you from that black-list, which might imply there's still some sort of connection from your profile to a template ID or maybe the generic template still exists but they're disallowed to associate it to a profile and it's in some shadow table?

tsumnia 7y ago
Plus, just as another layer of "I don't trust this". I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup. My only assumption is that Facebook is too big to properly manage that piece of specific knowledge and will delete it, but I'll still be there somewhere. Or I'll magically opt back in because of something like Messenger or whatever. Considering the news about Google circumventing their own GDPR restrictions, I just assume these companies aren't following through with any of their promises.
- jefftk 7y ago
  > I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup. That sounds like a violation of the CAN-SPAM act, and you could consider suing them.
  - tsumnia 7y ago
    Yes, but the hassle of deleting their email once every few months isn't enough to make suing them worth it. Plus, that doesn't really resolve the issue that requesting to be take off things doesn't actually remove me (the original concern of these comments)

amflare 7y ago

Okay, but how will they know if the face they found is yours, and thus should not be found?

dymk 7y ago
This is actually an exception that GDPR makes for storing data - companies can keep around some sort of record to "tombstone" users. Sort of. GDPR is so woefully under-specified in some places, and general in others, it's really entirely up to the will of the regulators what would count as a violation.
e12e 7y ago
I wonder about this too. They say they delete the template (the statistical model they know is your face). Ok. So now I register a new fb profile, using a picture of you, opting in to facial recognition. Now what? They can't match the picture against your profile, because they've deleted the template?

munherty 7y ago

What do they mean by "delete" ? Is this only FB? What about its 279387429 other connectors

gnu8 7y ago

I shouldn’t have to tell Facebook to delete something it should never have had to begin with. How are we going to force Facebook to stop doing terrible things forever?

wlesieutre 7y ago
The article makes it sound like an ominous surveillance feature with not justifiable product reasons, so I should point out that this powers beneficial features like face recognition for image accessibility. Thanks to face recognition, blind people can know who's in a photo. https://www.facebook.com/accessibility/videos/new-face-face-recognition-features/1628143837229335/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibility/videos/new-face-face-... Remove yourself if you want to, but people should be aware there's also a useful side of this.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  That there exists useful product reasons is beside the point. The point is that people who don't want their data to be involved should not have their data be involved.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    Yes, it's good that you can opt out now. But I think articles like this are doing a disservice by glossing over the negative effects of opting out. People choosing to remove their data from this should be aware that if they have visually impaired friends on facebook (or even friends of friends, depending on sharing settings) you will be degrading accessibility features that they probably use. And it's great to let people make their own choice about whether they're OK with Facebook having face recognition of them, but encouraging people to disable it without at least mentioning that image tags are an accessibility feature is a dick move. It's framed as just "this will remove features that you might not care about," but blind people need the image tags more than you do.
adamisom 7y ago
So, just to be clear.. when a person signs up for.. wait for it... Facebook... they shouldn’t expect that Facebook has an image of their... face?

ilikehurdles 7y ago

What do I have to do to get facebook to delete this after I already deleted my account 3 years ago?

wronglebowski 7y ago
Seconded, I'm in the same boat. I realize attempting to wipe my data from all the various sources it may be in across the web is futile but I'd still like to try.
- windexh8er 7y ago
  Until Facebook states they won't store/analyze faces they can't recognize then everyone who has never had an account or deleted their account are at a disadvantage. I've always wondered if COPPA could be used against Facebook with regard to this. Theoretical situation: I'm a parent and I find an image of my child (under 13 years of age). Facebook never notified me of they were storing my child's image. Facebook would argue they didn't know. But Facebook already scanned the image and likely guessed the child's age - and knew they were under 13. In that situation Facebook should be required to remove the image based on the fact they cannot notify the guardian. I realize this would have severe repercussions to their operational model, but that's also the point. Or... If I find an image Facebook didn't notify me about - then I'll take that $42,000 per image. Seems fair.

toss1 7y ago

FB is known to build profiles of pretty much everyone it encounters, even vicariously, ostensibly to be able to populate a new account with engaging info once they actually join. Can I tell them to delete the records of my face that they keep even though I don't have an account? And, of course, in all instances. will they actually expunge it from all locations in their data-universe?

DannyB2 7y ago

Shouldn't it be that I have to tell Facebook what they are allowed to keep? Especially since I have never had and never will have a FB account.

ineedasername 7y ago
That's what you think. Your shadow profile is probably there, waiting for you should you ever claim it.

flippyhead 7y ago

Sorry, but... So I don't have to go hunting for it (and get stuck in facebook land reading updates!) can some one provide a link to the place where this setting resides? Thank you!

Chirael 7y ago
Yes please. I hate articles like this that tell you what Facebook will now allow you to do... but don't give you the actual link where you could do it yourself _right now_. Makes me think these articles are actually Facebook PR which wants to control the narrative on the feature and deliberately not make it easy to find where to do it.

gouggoug 7y ago

Interestingly, I just went into my account and I was already opted-out. Is this the case for everybody? If so, that's a very surprising move coming from FB.

rootw0rm 7y ago

okay....so how do you opt-out?

plg 7y ago

Can I opt out if I'm not a Facebook user? i.e. opt out of having them store records of my face? PS don't tell me they don't have records of my face

laythea 7y ago

Surely after their AI neural net thingamybob has absorbed your face, FB doesn't care about deleting your face, as their model has already benefited from it?

ooklala 7y ago

Didn’t this happen over a year ago? (in the EU at least) https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-facial-recognition-opt-out-settings-lawsuit-turn-off-gdpr-eu https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-facial-recognition-...

ldayley 7y ago

How does a person without a facebook account accomplish this though? Even without an account it’s likely that fb has several dozens of photos of me via other people’s posts.

b_tterc_p 7y ago

Despite the headline I don’t see anything about deleting data. Just that it won’t try to recognize you. That being said, I went on my profile to check and it was already set to No (don’t do facial recognition). Is this the default? Or is this actually an old thing that I disabled a long time ago.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

RyanAF7 7y ago

uh oh...here comes the facial data leak

parliament32 7y ago

This help page[1] claims you can go to Settings > Facial Recognition, but I don't have that option under Settings... [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203

andrewgioia 7y ago

Can anyone figure out how to actually turn this off? After bouncing around in Facebook's help docs I found the steps[1] but don't see the option. Click the down arrow at the top right, then Settings. There _should_ be a "Face Recognition" item in the left but not for me. This is so frustrating and part of me thinks they just disable this for a bit so 90% of people forget. [1] https://www.facebook.com/help/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/187272841323203

ragerino 7y ago
I checked it in the Android app, and I was able to find it and it was already deactivated. I remember doing this a while ago. But it was burried in Facebooks settings. Here is how you can do it on Android. 1. Click on the menu icon (three horizontal lines) in the top toolbar. 2. Scroll down, expand "Settings & Privacy" if not expanded, and click "Settings". Don't fall for those privacy shortcuts. Facebook will hide a lot of settings from you. 3. Scroll down and you should see the " Face Recognition" entry in the Privacy category. Hope this helps. PS: I personally find it lame, that Facebook needs to make it as much confusing as possible to find those settings.

blackflame7000 7y ago

And they totally will from most of their archives wink wink. Who is really capable of verifying this actually happens that doesn't also have a vested interest in Facebook?

MilnerRoute 7y ago

I can't find the setting to disable this. The EFF says they "have questions" about how Facebook is implementing this. "Throughout Facebook’s deliberately vague announcement, it takes great pains to note that the change applies only to new Facebook users and people who currently have the “tag suggestions” setting. However, Facebook migrated many, if not most, existing users from “tag suggestions” to “face recognition” in December 2017 (see here for Facebook’s explanation of the difference between tag suggestions and face recognition). That means this safeguard does not apply to the billions of current Facebook users who have already been moved." https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/09/facebook-changing-its-face-recognition-settings-we-have-questions https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/09/facebook-changing-its-...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
noer 7y ago
The URL when I found it was: https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=facerec https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=facerec If that URL doesn't work I went to Settings and there's a tab for "Facial Recognition" on the left rail. Between "Language and Regions" and "Notifications"
- MilnerRoute 7y ago
  I really appreciate you posting this. Just to confirm my experience: when I click on that link, I see "General Account Settings" (like name, username, contact... Everything that's available from the first left-hand menu choice.) And no where in that left-hand menu is there any choice about Face Recognition. I do have a left-hand menu choice about "Timeline and Tagging" -- but there's still nothing there about face recognition.
  - noer 7y ago
    Here's what my left hand menu looks like: https://imgur.com/a/dFPibMc https://imgur.com/a/dFPibMc I'd guess that it's a feature that's being gradually rolled out to all accounts. I originally posted it because I was frustrated that I didn't see a link to the setting in the article, but I guess I understand why there was no link.

Zelphyr 7y ago

This is great for the new users it appears to apply to. But what about people like me? I haven't had a Facebook account in seven years. Yet, I'm not delusional to believe they don't still have my data (yes, I "deleted" it) along with my picture. So every time my wife posts a picture with me in it to Facebook, they know where I am.

JohnFen 7y ago

...and Facebook will tell you it's deleted. But why should anyone believe them?

lwansbrough 7y ago

How do I do this if I’ve already deleted my Facebook profile? I know Facebook is still holding some data on me because the “that account doesn’t exist” page it shows when I type in my former account email is subtly different than the page when I type in an email I know doesn’t exist.

DevKoala 7y ago
I am in the same boat.
- teamspirit 7y ago
  Exactly my problem too. It almost feels like I have to have a Facebook account just to opt out of Facebook's tracking. Furthermore, and as others have stated, what about all the time my face may appear in other's photos?
pesenti 7y ago
If you are not or no longer are a Facebook user or you do not have the Face Recognition on, we will not create or store a face template to recognize you. Source/Disclaimer: I work at FB and this feature is managed by my team.
- mellowdream 7y ago
  I deleted my FB account a few days ago, and reactivated it today (within the 30-day permanent deletion cancel period) to see if I could delete FB's record of my face data. Like some others in this thread, I couldn't see any option to do so. Do I need to wait for this option to be rolled out to my account (and how long will that take)? Can I delete my account anyway without this option having shown up? (While ensuring FB doesn't have records of my face?)
- e_proxus 7y ago
  What about having a disabled account (the option where you can continue to use Messenger)? With a disabled account you can't log-in to check the settings because Facebook will automatically enable the account again.

d10 7y ago

I'll speculate that facebook will never "delete its internal record of your face" as the title states. They're using misleading words to make this sound like a significant concession, when it isn't. Suppose Alice appears in photos with Bob. And that Carol appears in other photos with the same Bob. Facebook can infer the Alice..Bob..Carol relationships. If Bob "opts-out", facebook will still know that Alice appears in photos with unnamed person, and also that Carol appears with same unnamed person. So they'll infer the Alice..unnamed person..Carol relationships. If, hypothetically, facebook offered Bob the option "do not use my face in your algorithms." Then maybe they wouldn't link Alice and Carol. But all facebook is offering here is "don't associate my face to my account". This cleverly gives facebook some cover. Bob might ask facebook, "don't use my face to surveil my friends", but facebook can say "how could we possibly do that? We don't associate your face with your account, so we can't associate your face with your preference, even if we wanted to."

rhacker 7y ago
We'll end up with a website called "Do Not UseMyFace" and you'll take a picture of your face and upload it to the FCC in an effort to stop RoboFacing.
- sverige 7y ago
  Which will ensure that not only Facebook but also every other social media outlet will now have your face tied to your identity.
  - rhacker 7y ago
    No no you ruined the joke that comes 15 years later!!!!
  - c0vfefe 7y ago
    They might as well call the site "PleaseHackMe."
blancNoir 7y ago
From the article: "When you opt out of facial recognition on Facebook, the company will delete your template, meaning it will have no original reference point for your face and therefore cannot find your face at all." ... When people turn off their face recognition setting, we can no longer create a face template for them for any purpose, including A.I. research,” the spokesperson told OneZero.

noobdood 7y ago

"You can now tell Facebook to " $* Slowly, with me, now: Hah. Hah. Hah.

eugeniub 7y ago

This is getting tiring. I have to submit a form to tell Facebook to delete data about my face. Submit a form to opt out of binding arbitration for each credit card. Submit a form to avoid being tracked. This whole mess puts a huge onus on the average internet user, and acts like it's the user's own fault if they're every movement and action is being tracked by a hundred entities at once.

ineedasername 7y ago
Yeah, i get that there might be some people who only want to delete a few particular things, but there should be blanket options for entire categories of data, and any tracking/marketing data about you that you yourself did not provide to them.
mjevans 7y ago
I've never had, and intend to never have, an account with Facebook or any of their services. Can we please have sane legal defaults like Facebook ONLY having data profiles for those who have agreed to the creation of such profiles?
- smt88 7y ago
  Sane legal defaults are great and necessary, but not enough. Google has iffy GDPR compliance to begin with and has now been caught circumventing it. Nothing will be effective short of jailtime for the execs responsible for flouting laws and public trust (not for making a mistake, but actually engineering workarounds).
- ufmace 7y ago
  Thing about that, Facebook is known to construct "shadow profiles" of people who don't have normal profiles, just to correlate all of the data they happen to gather on you from having their tendrils on half the sites on the internet. It might be better off to create a profile with your info just to turn off as many things as you can, and not interact with anybody on it.
ConcernedCoder 7y ago

ineedasername 7y ago

In other words, they've trained their models enough that they can now be ethical about this one particular piece of data.

DevKoala 7y ago

I deleted my Facebook account months ago. Does that mean all of the other records were deleted?

orf 7y ago

Of course they don’t delete it, which is why they know not to automatically tag you.

YeahSureWhyNot 7y ago

yeah? Zuckerberg promised? suuure

meddlepal 7y ago

How do you do this if you no longer have a Facebook account? I am sure they have my data but I deleted my account several years ago and I don't plan to reactivate it.

Rafuino 7y ago

I've had this setting disabled for I want to say over a year now. Was I part of some early pilot or something? I followed the instructions here (https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203 https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203) and it was already set to "No". What the heck?

pesenti 7y ago

More info: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/update-face-recognition/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/update-face-recognition... The feature is now opt-in. It is turned off for all new users and for those who only had the "tag suggestion" setting on. Disclaimer: I work at Facebook and this feature is managed by my team.

joeblau 7y ago
I deleted my facebook account years ago — how do I delete myself?
- pesenti 7y ago
  If you are not a Facebook user or you do not have the Face Recognition on, we will not create or store a face template to recognize you.
  - chinathrow 7y ago
    Is that the truth or will a court later fine your company for lying?
    - jrockway 7y ago
      When you ask hypotheticals like this, it comes across as an attack. When you attack people, they stop showing up to share their unique knowledge and experience.
      - IllogicalLogic 7y ago
        Facebook's chronic underhanded tactics requires one to ask for confirmation. The onus is on the dishonest party not the victims. Good that he asked... we all should more.
lightedman 7y ago
When are you going to fix the 2FA account issue I noted last year? I'm beyond responsible disclosure times, y'all have been totally silent (which has had the consequence of me being unable to access my account for a year) and I think I'd like to be going public with it really soon.

ThrustVectoring 7y ago

It'll be extremely difficult for the face-identification algorithm to not run on your face without remembering what your face looks like. Their algorithm is probably a two-step process: find where all the faces are in the photograph, and then attempt to match the found faces to user profiles. It's extremely probable that every failure-to-match gets logged somewhere, and probably annotated with extra data. Will Facebook wind up deleting your facial recognition data only to recreate it without the tie to your profile? It seems extremely likely, unless they keep some list of "deleted faces" and tell the match-to-profile algorithm to discard any results from that list. And that seems very different from actually deleting your face record.

andrerm 7y ago

This is misleading to the point it's almost propaganda. From Facebooks announcement [1] > ... if you’re in a photo and are part of the audience for that post, we’ll notify you, even if you haven’t been tagged. You’re in control of your image on Facebook and can make choices such as whether to tag yourself, leave yourself untagged, or reach out to the person who posted the photo if you have concerns about it. [1] https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/12/managing-your-identity-on-facebook-with-face-recognition-technology/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/12/managing-your-identity-...

clebio 7y ago
What the even what. This is double speak.

squarefoot 7y ago

I still can't use it and won't be able to, probably forever. I'm not on Facebook and I don't have plans to become part of that thing for the next two centuries or so, but a lot of people I happen to share the same geographical coordinates do. They take and upload photos at events thinking everyone wants to appear in their videos. Now imagine -as someone who strives every single day to stay away from that platform and all associated things- playing an instrument at a dinner and realizing there are no less than half the people there pointing a cellphone at you. How in the Universe can I ask people I don't ever recall the name not to shoot videos of me, or at least not put them on Facebook because once they do I can't ask Facebook to delete them because I don't have a Facebook account? The real problem here is that I am already somewhere on Facebook since forever although I firmly refuse to be part of it, and I have no way of telling them to delete all my data, short of making an account, which would negate everything I am struggling for. This is crazy. A while ago I proposed somewhere (probably here, can't recall for sure) a barcode which if shown (worn?) tells the system used to shoot the video that the associated human doesn't want to appear, so that the whole person is deleted from the scene. Now that the random-faces technology has progressed, I would add some AI that swaps that person with a fake one so that the photo won't be ruined by an empty area. In the meantime we could create human readable symbols telling if and how we want our image to be used and instruct people how to use them, then one day hopefully if someone posts a photo of me while wearing a patch/shirt/whatever with a crossed camera, I can force that person to delete the photo or sue the platform that keeps it online. Of course there should be exceptions for well known public figures and/or public officers during service (read: the heck I'm not uploading a photo of say police abuse even if the cop wears a 5 meters wide photo of a crossed camera!).

cameronbrown 7y ago
What infuriates me is when parents do this to other people's children without asking. It's now just a given you'll be uploaded onto some giant corporations systems from birth to death.

throwawaywego 7y ago

Give me physical opt-out. A "robots.txt"/do-not-track for computer surveillance spiders. Let me wear a necklace or QR code on my shoulder, and any commercial face tracking software, is required to create a big black blindspot where my facial micro-expressions used to be.

johnday 7y ago
The implication that everyone is forced to do something, forever, in order to not have their privacy violated, is a little silly. Explicit opt-ins should be the only legal method.
stordoff 7y ago
And then the minute it even isn't slightly visible, Facebook et al will likely take that as you consenting.

patient_zero 7y ago

I can "tell" them. What a farce. Until the title reads "New Law Criminalizes Sale of Private Data Without Consent", this crazy train will never stop.

Taniwha 7y ago

So how do I do this if I'm not a facebook user? you can't even contact facebook by email to tell them to stop sending spam because they've allowed another user to sign up using your email address - they have no outward facing public email address

apricot 7y ago

I mean you could always tell Facebook to do whatever.

falcongod082 7y ago

You can now tell the Queen of England to make you a Knight!

candeira 7y ago

I read this as "You can now 100% confirm to Facebook that, indeed, that is your face".

nameisu 7y ago

where is the actual form/ link lol? Cant seem to find it

markdown 7y ago

Is this for the people who haven't already legally prevented FB from using your face? I fixed this years ago by copypasting a legal message on my FB account refusing FB this permission. They have no right to use my photo for any means whatsoever without my express written permission.

nextstep 7y ago

How can I, someone without a Facebook profile, ask Facebook to delete my internal profile?