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Mystery surrounds lost German sea data station
- Reason077 7y agoRussians?
- avaku 7y agoYeah, we did it ;)
- me_me_me 7y agoThat's what those dolphins were trained for! They just pretended to be releasing them into the wild. [0] https://timeline.com/is-russia-amassing-a-dolphin-navy-b6e5b67b45ac https://timeline.com/is-russia-amassing-a-dolphin-navy-b6e5b... /s (just in case)
- Reason077 7y agoThank you for your honesty ;)
- wruza 7y agoHere.
- echelon 7y agoCould this research platform have been sabotaged by a US submarine? The current administration is poised against climate change science, and submarines are reportedly used in clandestine operations to splice or cut communication cables. Perhaps it was generating data that was making someone unhappy. Edit: I'm being downvoted for making a (not unreasonable?) supposition. I honestly wanted a discussion about submarines and/or intelligence community things.
- xfitm3 7y agoThe current administration is pro science.
- elmomle 7y agoI believe OP means the current US administration.
- eloff 7y agoIt might also have been abducted by aliens, but it's not constructive to suggest something with a 0% probability, when rounded. It seems like submarines splicing spy equipment into undersea cables is their biggest peace time application - and it looks like every country that can do it, does it in some form or other. It just came to light that South Africa is doing that, and they can barely keep the lights on as a nation. If a basket-case like South Africa does it, probably every developed nation does it.
- imglorp 7y agoIt would be far from the first time somebody's science or fishing vessel was spying on someone else. But would it would be the first time the US has interfered with an ally's spy rig? Five eyes, and all that, it's in our interest, right? Maybe someone else messed with it.
- pizzapill 7y agoGermany is not in the five eyes. Its a Commonwealth thing. The US is doing mainly industrial espionage in Germany and drag net mass surveillance...
- imglorp 7y agoTIL. 5E :- Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States.
- schappim 7y agoFYI the USA is not in the Commonwealth.
- jonathankoren 7y agoTrue. We could be, but we literally fought a couple of wars to stay out of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations_membership_criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations_member...
- iamtheworstdev 7y agoIt's extremely unlikely the US would do something like that to an ally. In regards to 'spying' in general, usually you don't really sabotage. You just note what's being collected and control it. Because by sabotaging something you give away that you know about it, that is has value, that you're possibly actively looking for similar things, blah blah. I would bet money that someone dragged an anchor across the line or the device, and it has since been dragged across the sea floor to an unknown location by accident.
- ianhawes 7y agoHighly doubtful that someone dragged an anchor across a restricted area in 72 ft of water. I'm not an expert on nautical stuff, but only the largest vessels would have anchor chains that long. Moreover, you'd have major problems getting your anchor detached from that thing. If you cut your chain (unlikely) then it would still be at the bottom of the sea. If you somehow managed to detach the sea station, it would also be laying nearby. Presumably the divers checked the nearby seabed?
- iamtheworstdev 7y agoAnchors dropped where not allowed is one of the top reasons international communication lines break. That device did not look particularly heavy when compared to the weight of a chain/line required to drop anchor at that depth (normally 5:1 or 7:1 ratio). And the amount area a diver would have to check us significant.
- Gibbon1 7y agoWell yeah on land 750kg seems heavy. In water it's not really. A 50 foot boat/ship could easily snag that and drag it off. A larger ship might not even notice until they brought the anchor up. As far as the dog piled parent, intelligence services are known to be loony paranoid and do really dumb stuff. Not to mention research and science projects are commonly used as cover. So sometimes the loony paranoia isn't misplaced.
- darkcha0s 7y agoI think the Bay (Eckernförde) is so small and shallow that any US Submarine would have been spotted immediately.
- exar0815 7y agoHighly unlikely. Those waters are too shallow for any US-Submarines (Or british) to operate in. And its one of the prime hunting grounds for german submarines, which are based in the Area. Much too risky.
- baybal2 7y agoNot even a diesel microsubmarine will be able to manoeuvre freely there unless surfaced
- cerebellum42 7y agoYeah seems rather risky to be operating literally in the backyard of a major German submarine base. Six Type 212 subs are based in Eckernförde, one is actually on the marine tracker linked in the comments above [0] right now. If a submarine pops up there unannounced that's a diplomatic incident at least and with a naval base nearby the risk of discovery would be rather high. [0] https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:9.973/centery:54.493/zoom:12 https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:9.973/cent...
- squarefoot 7y agoI didn't downvote you, however the problem with your reasoning is that every country has literally hundreds of devices scattered around and measuring every day data that could make someone unhappy. The current US administration (which I deeply dislike as well) would gain nothing but the great risks involved should the agents be caught with the pants down. While they could well sabotage a few stations, there are so many around that hitting all of them is plain impossible. If we accept your theory, we should also take into account Russia as well since this happened about two weeks after that nuclear incident, and having sensors measuring radiations far away from the event would make them unhappy too. I'm assuming that station has radiation sensors on board although their presence has not been reported because they're cheap and it would be stupid not to include them especially in that area. Same problem as above: let's say some Russian agents managed to destroy that station, how would they deal with the hundreds or thousands other stations doing similar measurements around without risking a lot of PR damage if caught? To me, assuming it was intentional, it was either someone needing spare parts for his projects (kidding) or someone who didn't want measurements to be taken in that area because they are involved in illegal dumping of pollutants or similar things. edit: knowing the exact type of sensors on board would help a lot to find the motivations in case of deliberate sabotage; eg, a magnetometer can detect anomalies in Earth's magnetic field, such as those produced by big ships or submarines passing by.
- ceejayoz 7y agoClimate deniers have managed to ignore inconvenient, extensive data for decades. I doubt they see a need to perform an act of war to prevent a trickle of additional data.
- kjs3 7y agoThe current US administrations tact is "the science is wrong" or "the science is being misinterpreted". Why go to the trouble of some cloak and dagger mission when you can simply ignore it.
- panzagl 7y agoTrump is not Der Kinderlumper.
- astrodev 7y agoMaybe stolen for scrap metal (would not be that unusual, as absurd as it sounds)
- abricot 7y agoThey would probably just have taken the cable and left the station.
- cs702 7y agoIt reads like the beginning of a script for one of those giant-aquatic-monster summer movies starting, say, Jason Statham. Quoting from the OP: "The seabed 'observatory', worth about €300,000 (£270,000), weighed more than half a tonne. It could not have been dragged off by a storm ... Divers only found a torn power cable at the site, 22m (72ft) down and 1.8km (1.2 miles) offshore."
- ethbro 7y agoExcept it turns out it's actually a heist movie, and they stole it at the beginning of the movie.
- epiphanitus 7y agoWho knows, maybe a giant octopus was looking for an easy snack.
- ericb 7y agoI can understand a cut cable and a humans stealing something worth 300k. But in what scenario does a torn cable make sense?
- joshvm 7y agoYou would have to dive to cut the cable. Easier, if your boat is powerful enough, to pull until the cable breaks. Ignoring malicious activity, could be something as simple as an anchor got caught and they pulled the station with it?
- simplicio 7y agoIt cost 300k, but I can't imagine there's a huge blackmarket for fencing sea-water salinity monitors and the like, so I doubt stealing it would be worth anyones trouble.
- michaelg7x 7y agoMaye it didn't "just" do climate science, and for that reason someone with the right resources wanted it to disappear.
- msla 7y agoIt doing climate science is plenty of reason for some people to want it to disappear.
- jagermo 7y agoYeah, as a German, I doubt our ability to place fancy surveillance stuff or other military projects onto the seabed.
- oh_sigh 7y agoMaybe all of your talented engineers are doing exactly that, and everyone else left over is doing things like building airports.
- jagermo 7y agoand faking emission readings?
- rurban 7y agoIt could have been cooperated with the NATO to monitor Russian submarine activity. That could be the explanation why it was cutoff and took away, and not just intercepted (spliced) as usual.
- Spare_account 7y ago> It could not have been dragged off by a storm I'd have thought that until other evidence comes to light, this is the most likely answer actually.
- raxxorrax 7y agoThey bay is partly prohibited to be visited because it is used by the military. It is also believed that a lot of ammunition was disposed there after WW2, which perhaps could offer some starting points for an explanation, even if unlikely. The military currently uses it for torpedo tests and perhaps someone is currently really starting to sweat after reading this article.
- mannykannot 7y agoSomeone dragged an anchor or a trawl net over it and isn't about to admit to it, especially once they realize they were in a prohibited zone. Having occasionally followed rocket launches from Wallops Island, I think I have a small sense of how often keep-out rules are violated. Unless this area had 24/7 radar monitoring, I think this is the most likely explanation.
- mr_overalls 7y ago"No boats - not even local fishing boats - are allowed into the area, called Eckernförde Bay, about 70km (44 miles) south of the Danish border." Seems like a risky place to go trawling.
- giarc 7y agoA comment in this thread shows the area. It's pretty small and would be very easy for someone to drive through without realizing it.
- tokai 7y agoI grew up on an island in the Baltic. Cable lines to main land snapped by anchor dragging was a surprisingly common occurrence. Other marine shenanigans included drunken sailors beaching their ships because they forgot to turn around the island. And ofcause a ton of illegal fishing. Your conclusion seems most likely in my book.
- Accujack 7y agoAgreed. Bottom trawling was the first thing I thought of. The machinery is probably relatively nearby, possibly with shreds of net caught in it, sitting on the bottom.
- samstave 7y agoHow big are these sensor objects? How do they communicate what datat they collect?
- frobozz 7y ago> No boats - not even local fishing boats - are allowed into the area, called Eckernförde Bay, about 70km (44 miles) south of the Danish border. Do they mean this Eckernförde Bay? https://www.google.com/maps/@54.4733896,9.8473616,800m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@54.4733896,9.8473616,800m/data=... Here? https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:9.973/centery:54.493/zoom:12 https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:9.973/cent...
- rerx 7y agoThere are some restricted zones. German, but if you click on the map, you will get an idea: https://mein-ostseehafen.de/seegebiete/schleswig-holstein/schleimuende-bis-eckernfoerde.html?layout=edit&id=301#Eckernfoerder_Bucht https://mein-ostseehafen.de/seegebiete/schleswig-holstein/sc...
- frobozz 7y agoOpenseamap shows two sperrgebiete in the bay, and one just outside it http://map.openseamap.org/?lang=de http://map.openseamap.org/?lang=de
- samstave 7y agoI really want to know if that german submarine station in antarctica and the rumored US base under san diego are true.
- gonesilent 7y agoCoronado the main Navy base in San Diego is mostly built on top of a sand burm. If anything is under San Diego it would have to be Miramar, or Camp Pendleton.
- dubbel 7y agoThe German source article is a bit more specific: They are talking about the exclusion zone "Hausgarten" near the Camping ground Hökholz. https://map.openseamap.org/?zoom=15&lat=54.54194&lon=10.04402&layers=BFTFFTTFFTF0TFFFFFTTFF https://map.openseamap.org/?zoom=15&lat=54.54194&lon=10.0440...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- zelienople 7y agoThe mouth of Eckernförde is a pretty good place to observe the main transit belt between the North Sea and the Baltic. This monitoring station disappeared toward the end, or shortly after, a major Russian naval exercise involving almost all of their northern fleet. The US has moved an aircraft carrier, the Harry S Truman, near the coast of Norway, perhaps to observe Russian activity. The Russians have two diesel-electric boats, both Kilo class, in the Baltic. Apparently, one of them has been out of commission for a while. The rumour is that they're significantly upgrading their Baltic submarine fleet. While no passive sonar function has been disclosed for this station, it is fairly new, expensive and high-tech. It was deployed recently as an upgrade to the German data collection system in Kiel Bay. Perhaps the Russians wished to transfer nuclear submarines to the Baltic to upgrade their fleet, and this station was seen as a concern.
- PaulRobinson 7y agoThis might sound like a flippant question, but I'm genuinely curious: how do you know all this? Are you a keen fan of modern naval warfare and keep abreast of it all, or do you work in the industry somehow?
- samstave 7y agoThats not flippant AT ALL - i was going to pose the exact same question!
- scottlocklin 7y agoI'm guessing a keen reader of Jane's could know this. Pretty cool intel anyway. I'd love a news media that helped summarize a lot of stuff like this, but alas you have to rely on various blogs. "News" seems more disinfo these days than anything else.
- jonathankoren 7y agoThere is a lot of OSINT on the web and social media. People love taking pictures of every warship that crosses the Bosporus. People read Notice To Airmen reports and share out unusual reports linked to military activity. If you follow the right people on Twitter, you can watch them analyze North Korean missile tests and identify spy satellites in almost real time.
- colpabar 7y agoIt must have contained some data that could lead to the arrest of Hilary Clinton.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]