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To be fair I think this article doesn't fairly assess whether this is good or bad. From my POV as a US citizen that has been living as an expat in different co

To be fair I think this article doesn't fairly assess whether this is good or bad. From my POV as a US citizen that has been living as an expat in different countries for the last few years, US banks globalizing is a net positive. I get convenience and speed with US banks that I get nowhere else -- i.e. the most online traditional bank in the UK is probably NatWest, which sucks because you have to get a physical card reader (like an actual machine that scans your debit card) in order to use the online banking most of the time. There's Monzo which is fully online but it sucks internationally, and adding funds is a pain. In China I had to jump through so many hoops to get an account and there are hundreds of restrictions in place; likely because I'm not a Chinese citizen. This is not a pain point for any immigrants I know in the US as it's fairly easy to move money around. I'm sure US banks in control is bad at a macroeconomic level, but for the average consumer and at a microeconomic level I think it could bring about a lot of positive changes. Then again my perspective is probably skewed as an American

spoovy 7y ago
Not sure what your definition of "traditional" is, but I don't recognise your description of UK banks at all. I joined Smile bank (Co-op) in 2001/2, and it was even then fully online and I never needed a bank card to manage my account. I've had accounts with several others since (inc. Barclays, Santander) and never needed a card with them either. The new generation like Starling, Monzo, Revolut et al are also incredibly convenient.
owenwil 7y ago
We have very different experiences of the global banking system, it seems. To me, US banks are archaic, slow, and backward—and the UK has to be in for close second so it isn't a fair comparison at all. I have lived/banked in New Zealand, Canada and The Netherlands, all of which are delightfully eons ahead of the US banks almost across the board. For example: - P2P or bill payments in Canada can be made to any email address and received within 60 minutes for free. - Splitting a bill or requesting payment in Netherlands is trivial, because the banks all allow you to generate a URL and send it to anyone for instant payment. - Transfers in NZ are realtime, instant, and validated before you send to ensure its the right person. You can also create accounts online with your government login. Touch to pay exists everywhere since at least 2010. Meanwhile in the US, checks exist and people go crazy when Apple Pay is accepted at a single chain store. I've never touched a check, and I hope I never need to—and the examples of hoops to jump through are likely because you're new! KYC regulations tend to relax over time, and it can be painful at first almost everywhere. The fintech revolution in Europe between N26, Revolut and the dizzying array of others is evidence we don't need, or want, US banks to do anything. It won't help.
- flexie 7y ago
  I second that. Most Europeans who have been exposed to American banks find them years if not decades behind. But investment banks and consumer banks are two different beasts entirely.
- kolbe 7y ago
  I don't deny that these other systems may be better than the US's, but you do a disservice to your own argument when you intentionally leave out parts of the US money transfer system that don't help your argument. We all know about debit cards, credit cards, venmo, zelle, the fed wire, &c. No need to pretend that the US is just a bunch of people handing paper checks over to one-another.
  - fnord123 7y ago
    The US doesn't use IBAN. WTF, America. Sort it out.
  - mcv 7y ago
    I'm not familiar with venmo and zelle, but from what I've heard about them, debit cards in the US sound like they're not much better than credit cards.
    - kolbe 7y ago
      > debit cards in the US sound like they're not much better than credit cards the are all better than paper checks
      - mcv 7y ago
        I don't doubt it, but in many countries, paper checks already died out a long time ago, and credit cards aren't really catching on for anything other than online purchases abroad, because we already have better solutions for most of the things they do.
        7y ago
xorfish 7y ago
> which sucks because you have to get a physical card reader (like an actual machine that scans your debit card) in order to use the online banking most of the time Isn't such a device required if you want 2FA and use your phone for e-banking?
- drjesusphd 7y ago
  Yes. This is a feature, not a bug. With the US system, on the other hand, consumers have more protection precisely because the banking system is insecure. It's easy to get a fradulent charge reversed.
  - mcv 7y ago
    In the EU it's also possible to get a fraudulent charge reversed, but fraudulent charges are much rarer.
roenxi 7y ago
> I'm sure US banks in control is bad at a macroeconomic level, but for the average consumer and at a microeconomic level I think it could bring about a lot of positive changes. Then again my perspective is probably skewed as an American It is also worth comparing the US banks to alternatives. The US is changing, but as a political entity the US still accepts that wealth and earning money are fundamentally good things and that private property is a thing. For example [0]. The US banks are trustworthy like snakes and scorpions, but at least they exist in a regulatory world that is pro-money. It is easy to see why US banks might end up being more effective than the competition. If they tap into a massive opportunity they are allowed to make obscene money. That is also a major driver why if someone wants to succeed, they want to succeed in the US. I bet that pervasive attitude comes through in the banking system too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...
- mindslight 7y ago
  > The US banks are trustworthy like snakes and scorpions, but at least they exist in a regulatory world that is pro-money Erm, US banking regulations have become quite insistent on knowing customers' identifying information, requesting employment details, and reporting many cash transactions to the government. So the environment can't really be said to be pro-money, at least at the pleb level, as the concept of money implies fungibility.
fnord123 7y ago
The article is about investment banks. Not retail banks. US investment banks are ahead of the US ones but the retails banks in the US outrageously outdated.
- fnord123 7y ago
  > US investment banks are ahead of the US ones Crikey I'm a typo machine. Hopefully it's obvious that I meant US investment banks are ahead of the EU ones
chiefalchemist 7y ago
Good or bad? That's what op-ed is for. That aside, we're talking about the cartel that crashed the WORLD economy just 10ish years ago. If that isn't cause for pause I'm not sure what is. There's more to life than convenience.
kasperni 7y ago
In my opinion the US is far behind with regards to retail banking. For example, in the US they are still arguing about real-time payments [1] while we had in years in most countries in Europe. We will probably have cross-country realtime payments with EMPSA [2] before the US has national realtime payments. With Fednow [3] having 2023-2024 as a target. [1] https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/19/big-banks-prepare-battle-fed-faster-payments-1605935 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/19/big-banks-prepare-... [2] https://www.paymentscardsandmobile.com/independent-mobile-payment-systems-in-europe-form-european-mobile-payment-systems-association-empsa/ https://www.paymentscardsandmobile.com/independent-mobile-pa... [3] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20190805a.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/othe...
- lacker 7y ago
  They are just arguing about the next-gen system that will achieve higher throughput. For consumers of US banks you can already do real-time payments with no fees with Zelle.
ValentineC 7y ago
> I get convenience and speed with US banks that I get nowhere else -- i.e. the most online traditional bank in the UK is probably NatWest, which sucks because you have to get a physical card reader (like an actual machine that scans your debit card) in order to use the online banking most of the time. I had a few UK accounts in the early 2010's, and it was awfully convenient for me that the physical card readers were interchangeable. I can bring around one card reader from any bank, and use it with the debit cards from every other bank. In Singapore, every bank has their own physical 2FA keypad tokens, and they're not interchangeable. Some banks are slowly moving to mobile apps, but most business bank accounts here still rely on those physical tokens.
- piva00 7y ago
  Here in Sweden we have BankID that is used by every bank and a multitude of other services as an authentication mechanism. It is an app on your phone, tied to your bank account and phone number where you use a passcode (or can enable FaceID on iOS) to basically sign any kind of transaction related to your tax agency number. It is really how everywhere should be, I need to pay some bills? Add them to my online banking and when I want to send the orders I just need to send them, open the app and sign. Need to send my tax declaration? Login to the tax agency using the app and sign and validate before sending my form. Do I need to validate a payment done with my credit card that was caught and marked as possibly fraudulent (because my purchasing behaviour changed a little bit from the norm)? No worries, just open the app and validate that you are you. And so on and so forth...
jayalpha 7y ago
"In China I had to jump through so many hoops to get an account " Yah. "hoops" like walking into a bank and walking out with an account and a card in 10 minutes! "This is not a pain point for any immigrants I know in the US as it's fairly easy to move money around." Sure. Try to sending 10, 100, 1000 or 10.000 USD within the US and then try the same thing in the EU and compare: costs, speed and ease.
- uwuhn 7y ago
  I've always heard it's incredibly difficult to get a bank account in China if you aren't a citizen, has this changed?
  - jayalpha 7y ago
    Yes. As far as I know now you can not just walk into a Chinese bank anymore with a tourist visa and just open one. Besides this, if you are not speaking the 90ies or something, I doubt there is a country where it is easier.
    - uwuhn 7y ago
      I've heard it's difficult even for people who are married to a citizen and have been living/working in China for years. It isn't like that in the US.

spoovy 7y ago

Not sure what your definition of "traditional" is, but I don't recognise your description of UK banks at all. I joined Smile bank (Co-op) in 2001/2, and it was even then fully online and I never needed a bank card to manage my account. I've had accounts with several others since (inc. Barclays, Santander) and never needed a card with them either. The new generation like Starling, Monzo, Revolut et al are also incredibly convenient.

owenwil 7y ago

We have very different experiences of the global banking system, it seems. To me, US banks are archaic, slow, and backward—and the UK has to be in for close second so it isn't a fair comparison at all. I have lived/banked in New Zealand, Canada and The Netherlands, all of which are delightfully eons ahead of the US banks almost across the board. For example: - P2P or bill payments in Canada can be made to any email address and received within 60 minutes for free. - Splitting a bill or requesting payment in Netherlands is trivial, because the banks all allow you to generate a URL and send it to anyone for instant payment. - Transfers in NZ are realtime, instant, and validated before you send to ensure its the right person. You can also create accounts online with your government login. Touch to pay exists everywhere since at least 2010. Meanwhile in the US, checks exist and people go crazy when Apple Pay is accepted at a single chain store. I've never touched a check, and I hope I never need to—and the examples of hoops to jump through are likely because you're new! KYC regulations tend to relax over time, and it can be painful at first almost everywhere. The fintech revolution in Europe between N26, Revolut and the dizzying array of others is evidence we don't need, or want, US banks to do anything. It won't help.

flexie 7y ago
I second that. Most Europeans who have been exposed to American banks find them years if not decades behind. But investment banks and consumer banks are two different beasts entirely.
kolbe 7y ago
I don't deny that these other systems may be better than the US's, but you do a disservice to your own argument when you intentionally leave out parts of the US money transfer system that don't help your argument. We all know about debit cards, credit cards, venmo, zelle, the fed wire, &c. No need to pretend that the US is just a bunch of people handing paper checks over to one-another.
- fnord123 7y ago
  The US doesn't use IBAN. WTF, America. Sort it out.
- mcv 7y ago
  I'm not familiar with venmo and zelle, but from what I've heard about them, debit cards in the US sound like they're not much better than credit cards.
  - kolbe 7y ago
    > debit cards in the US sound like they're not much better than credit cards the are all better than paper checks
    - mcv 7y ago
      I don't doubt it, but in many countries, paper checks already died out a long time ago, and credit cards aren't really catching on for anything other than online purchases abroad, because we already have better solutions for most of the things they do.
      - 7y ago

xorfish 7y ago

> which sucks because you have to get a physical card reader (like an actual machine that scans your debit card) in order to use the online banking most of the time Isn't such a device required if you want 2FA and use your phone for e-banking?

drjesusphd 7y ago
Yes. This is a feature, not a bug. With the US system, on the other hand, consumers have more protection precisely because the banking system is insecure. It's easy to get a fradulent charge reversed.
- mcv 7y ago
  In the EU it's also possible to get a fraudulent charge reversed, but fraudulent charges are much rarer.

roenxi 7y ago

> I'm sure US banks in control is bad at a macroeconomic level, but for the average consumer and at a microeconomic level I think it could bring about a lot of positive changes. Then again my perspective is probably skewed as an American It is also worth comparing the US banks to alternatives. The US is changing, but as a political entity the US still accepts that wealth and earning money are fundamentally good things and that private property is a thing. For example [0]. The US banks are trustworthy like snakes and scorpions, but at least they exist in a regulatory world that is pro-money. It is easy to see why US banks might end up being more effective than the competition. If they tap into a massive opportunity they are allowed to make obscene money. That is also a major driver why if someone wants to succeed, they want to succeed in the US. I bet that pervasive attitude comes through in the banking system too. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

mindslight 7y ago
> The US banks are trustworthy like snakes and scorpions, but at least they exist in a regulatory world that is pro-money Erm, US banking regulations have become quite insistent on knowing customers' identifying information, requesting employment details, and reporting many cash transactions to the government. So the environment can't really be said to be pro-money, at least at the pleb level, as the concept of money implies fungibility.

fnord123 7y ago

The article is about investment banks. Not retail banks. US investment banks are ahead of the US ones but the retails banks in the US outrageously outdated.

fnord123 7y ago
> US investment banks are ahead of the US ones Crikey I'm a typo machine. Hopefully it's obvious that I meant US investment banks are ahead of the EU ones

chiefalchemist 7y ago

Good or bad? That's what op-ed is for. That aside, we're talking about the cartel that crashed the WORLD economy just 10ish years ago. If that isn't cause for pause I'm not sure what is. There's more to life than convenience.

kasperni 7y ago

In my opinion the US is far behind with regards to retail banking. For example, in the US they are still arguing about real-time payments [1] while we had in years in most countries in Europe. We will probably have cross-country realtime payments with EMPSA [2] before the US has national realtime payments. With Fednow [3] having 2023-2024 as a target. [1] https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/19/big-banks-prepare-battle-fed-faster-payments-1605935 https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/19/big-banks-prepare-... [2] https://www.paymentscardsandmobile.com/independent-mobile-payment-systems-in-europe-form-european-mobile-payment-systems-association-empsa/ https://www.paymentscardsandmobile.com/independent-mobile-pa... [3] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/other20190805a.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/othe...

lacker 7y ago
They are just arguing about the next-gen system that will achieve higher throughput. For consumers of US banks you can already do real-time payments with no fees with Zelle.

ValentineC 7y ago

> I get convenience and speed with US banks that I get nowhere else -- i.e. the most online traditional bank in the UK is probably NatWest, which sucks because you have to get a physical card reader (like an actual machine that scans your debit card) in order to use the online banking most of the time. I had a few UK accounts in the early 2010's, and it was awfully convenient for me that the physical card readers were interchangeable. I can bring around one card reader from any bank, and use it with the debit cards from every other bank. In Singapore, every bank has their own physical 2FA keypad tokens, and they're not interchangeable. Some banks are slowly moving to mobile apps, but most business bank accounts here still rely on those physical tokens.

piva00 7y ago
Here in Sweden we have BankID that is used by every bank and a multitude of other services as an authentication mechanism. It is an app on your phone, tied to your bank account and phone number where you use a passcode (or can enable FaceID on iOS) to basically sign any kind of transaction related to your tax agency number. It is really how everywhere should be, I need to pay some bills? Add them to my online banking and when I want to send the orders I just need to send them, open the app and sign. Need to send my tax declaration? Login to the tax agency using the app and sign and validate before sending my form. Do I need to validate a payment done with my credit card that was caught and marked as possibly fraudulent (because my purchasing behaviour changed a little bit from the norm)? No worries, just open the app and validate that you are you. And so on and so forth...

jayalpha 7y ago

"In China I had to jump through so many hoops to get an account " Yah. "hoops" like walking into a bank and walking out with an account and a card in 10 minutes! "This is not a pain point for any immigrants I know in the US as it's fairly easy to move money around." Sure. Try to sending 10, 100, 1000 or 10.000 USD within the US and then try the same thing in the EU and compare: costs, speed and ease.

uwuhn 7y ago
I've always heard it's incredibly difficult to get a bank account in China if you aren't a citizen, has this changed?
- jayalpha 7y ago
  Yes. As far as I know now you can not just walk into a Chinese bank anymore with a tourist visa and just open one. Besides this, if you are not speaking the 90ies or something, I doubt there is a country where it is easier.
  - uwuhn 7y ago
    I've heard it's difficult even for people who are married to a citizen and have been living/working in China for years. It isn't like that in the US.