7 ms·

As a consumer, can I please have a standard where I don't have to chase a new version every few years? I know that many are backwards compatible, but they aren

As a consumer, can I please have a standard where I don't have to chase a new version every few years? I know that many are backwards compatible, but they aren't forward compatible -- my MicroUSB cables don't help at all with USB-C, and type A and B connectors are still around. By the time all of my micro USB devices have disappeared from my household, I'm sure a new thing will have emerged that's incompatible with USB-C, and so I'll still have to have several different cables around.

Jonnax 7y ago
Type C is the intended replacement for Micro, A and B.
- jbverschoor 7y ago
  No... usb-c is just a connector
  - function_seven 7y ago
    Micro, A, and B, are also just connectors.
- bsamuels 7y ago
  then they should stop including USB C to USB C cables in every new phone I buy
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    It's the intended replacement, why would they stop including it in new purchases?
    - NullPrefix 7y ago
      I think OP tried to argue that if USB-C is just a replacement for Micro and Mini then why USB-A -> USB-Micro is replaced with USB-C -> USB-C instead of USB-A -> USB-C. This proves that USB-C is a replacement not only for Mini and Micro, but for -A too.
  - quixoticelixer- 7y ago
    Why?
  - mijoharas 7y ago
    It's intended as a replacement...
pvorb 7y ago
I'm sure USB-D will bring the solution for all of your problems!
- DoctorOetker 7y ago
  can't wait for USBS
kelnos 7y ago
I'm very excited that, just three weeks ago, I bought my first laptop with USB3 ports, which will soon be Yesterday's Hotness.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  You know what's nice about USB3 ports though? They're also USB1 and USB2 ports, so they work with like every peripheral made for the last 20 years. Honestly, I have a new Dell XPS, and in my opinion it has the ideal port combination: 2x USB3, 1x HDMI, 1x USB-C. I'm covered for the past, present, and immediate future. The only loser is a handful of peripherals that plugged into Thunderbolt on my old MBP (basically an Ethernet and Firewire adapter).
  - MikusR 7y ago
    You know what's nice about Type-C ports though? They're also USB1 and USB2, and USB3 ports (with a cheap adapter), so they work with like every peripheral made for the last 20 years.
    - TylerE 7y ago
      Aren’t the adaptors for USBC quite a bit more expensive? Is t there essentially a chip in the cable?
      - cesarb 7y ago
        No, adapters from USB-C to the older USB ports are completely passive, they only have a pair of resistors to identify as an adapter.
    - LASR 7y ago
      You know what's nice about Paraplegia? You can now use your legs (with a cheap prosthetic adapter), so they work like your legs exactly like they were the last 20 years.
    - mLuby 7y ago
themagician 7y ago
USB is that standard. The awesome thing about USB-C is all you need is a couple USB-A to USB-C adapters, which are cheap, and bam—all your devices are now compatible forward. And if you already have a USB hub all you need is one adapter.
- Dude2029 7y ago
  Apart from fast charging or connecting monitors via USB etc.
  - ghostly_s 7y ago
    Which are things your device also did not do when you bought it. "Forward-compatible"!=="magic upgrade".
- cjensen 7y ago
  The USB-C Standard explicitly forbids use of USB-anything to USB-C adapters. Buy a USB-C to USB-other cable instead of trying to light your computer on fire. The reason it is forbidden is because using two adapters you can convert a USB-C cable into a USB-A to USB-A cable. USB-A ports are not required to handle exciting and unexpected voltage on the wrong pins.
  - cesarb 7y ago
    The prohibition is only against USB-anything to USB-C socket. Adapters to USB-C plug are allowed (and can't create the invalid combination you just described).
phjesusthatguy3 7y ago
Stop buying stuff. If you can't do that, stop buying stuff that's incompatible with the stuff you already have.
- wyattpeak 7y ago
  This is a large but hardly the only aspect of compatibility: - Can I use friends'/family's chargers? Can I use public chargers? - Are my cables going to become difficult to find? Can I pick one up at the corner store in the middle of the night because mine failed? - What's going to happen when I need to interact with old hardware? Are converters available? Compatibility problems don't arise in perfect conditions, when you're at your desk with all your own current equipment. They arise in all the edge cases you will have to deal with over the at least several years you have a device.
userbinator 7y ago
The industry has decided that it is more profitable to make you buy adapters or a new device every couple of years (and create more e-waste in the process), hence the accelerating churn. And each new revision of the standard will introduce its own set of problems, guaranteeing them something to do for the next revision after that; but the churn situation with USB isn't actually that bad: USB 1.0 - 1996 USB 1.1 - 1998 USB 2.0 - 2000 USB 3.0 - 2008 USB 4.0 - 2019 Also, the vast majority of devices are still 1.x/2.x speed, so it might be more of a diminishing returns type of situation.
- jdnenej 7y ago
  Appart from storage and video, there is just no need to go over USB 2.0. My brand new USB microphone uses USB 2 because there is no advantage at all to USB 3.0 for this device.
  - larkeith 7y ago
    I have a single USB 3.0 external hard drive. Everything else is USB 2.0. It's fantastic, I never have to worry about whether I have the right cord or if the device supports it, and in the rare case where I need to transfer a file large enough that sending it over the Internet would be a bottleneck, I just toss it on the external HDD.
- dbtx 7y ago
  USB 4.0 doth not exist. The string '4.0' does not appear in the zipped PDF. There is only USB4™
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Presumably they will obsolete use of USB4 over non-Type-C cabling since the older 3.x compatible connectors are hacks. That means, moving forward, everything from 1.1, 2.0, 3.x, and 4 will run on the same cabling. Intermediate hubs will downgrade bandwidth if they can't support the same speed as their upstream host so there will be an element of mystery there without clear markings.
kalleboo 7y ago
I'm mostly fine with how USB has turned out - USB-A ports on computers and chargers, microUSB on devices, and slowly everything is being replaced with USB-C. (and we can all forget about those wide microUSB superspeed plugs) What really chafes me is MiniUSB. It was superseded by microUSB 12 years ago, but it STILL turns up in brand-new devices. I recently bought an action cam, a dashcam, and a retro input device converter that all had MiniUSB. I only had a single MiniUSB cable for my PS3 controller so I had to go out and buy a bunch of obsolete cables. Reading threads where the independent maker of the retro converter was defending his choice, "I find MiniUSB is more sturdy". So now everyone buying his thing needs to stock another kind of cable for a device where the socket isn't even going to see much wear and tear. (and MiniUSB being more sturdy is debatable - the socket is designed for much fewer insert/remove cycles).
- myself248 7y ago
  Mini is more sturdy. I've destroyed a lot of micro devices over the years, never a single mini. Most of my workbench devices (serial converters, logic analyzers, etc) are mini, so they see a lot of use and abuse, but they just keep going. Micro is incredibly fragile in comparison. Also, a lot of devices like the Gopro and Tomtom came out when Mini was current, and kept compatibility for years to respect their customers who had invested in accessories and stuff, and didn't want all that to become useless if they upgraded to the new unit. I appreciate that.
  - kelchm 7y ago
    The problem is that Mini USB tends to fail on the device side, while Micro USB is designed to fail on the cable side.
    - myself248 7y ago
      That may indeed be the design intent, but it's completely at odds with my experience across hundreds of devices and cables over the years. Micro has rendered numerous devices irreparable, or not-economical-to-repair, because the device-side connector fails. Thermal cameras, audio adapters, countless cellphones. Thankfully my daily-driver phones tend to be Samsungs which keep their USB connector on an easy-to-replace sub-board, but I can't say so much for FLIR's finest. I've thrown out my share of flaky micro cables, too, but those are cheap to replace. It's the device-side failures that have rained on my parade for years. Mini, on the other hand, has been bulletproof. Countless Beaglebone Black boards, FTDI adapters, logic analyzers strewn about my bench, my TomTom, my GoPro, even my old Blackberry was mini. And not a single one of them ever died because of a USB connector problem. (The magic smoke has escaped from more than a few, but that's another story entirely!) I've thrown out plenty of mini cables, sure, but the device-side connectors simply don't fail like their supposed design would suggest. Regardless of their intent, I consider inclusion of a micro port to simply be a design flaw at this point. Mini or C is the way to go.

Jonnax 7y ago

Type C is the intended replacement for Micro, A and B.

jbverschoor 7y ago
No... usb-c is just a connector
- function_seven 7y ago
  Micro, A, and B, are also just connectors.
bsamuels 7y ago
then they should stop including USB C to USB C cables in every new phone I buy
- zamadatix 7y ago
  It's the intended replacement, why would they stop including it in new purchases?
  - NullPrefix 7y ago
    I think OP tried to argue that if USB-C is just a replacement for Micro and Mini then why USB-A -> USB-Micro is replaced with USB-C -> USB-C instead of USB-A -> USB-C. This proves that USB-C is a replacement not only for Mini and Micro, but for -A too.
- quixoticelixer- 7y ago
  Why?
- mijoharas 7y ago
  It's intended as a replacement...

pvorb 7y ago

I'm sure USB-D will bring the solution for all of your problems!

DoctorOetker 7y ago
can't wait for USBS

kelnos 7y ago

I'm very excited that, just three weeks ago, I bought my first laptop with USB3 ports, which will soon be Yesterday's Hotness.

mikepurvis 7y ago
You know what's nice about USB3 ports though? They're also USB1 and USB2 ports, so they work with like every peripheral made for the last 20 years. Honestly, I have a new Dell XPS, and in my opinion it has the ideal port combination: 2x USB3, 1x HDMI, 1x USB-C. I'm covered for the past, present, and immediate future. The only loser is a handful of peripherals that plugged into Thunderbolt on my old MBP (basically an Ethernet and Firewire adapter).
- MikusR 7y ago
  You know what's nice about Type-C ports though? They're also USB1 and USB2, and USB3 ports (with a cheap adapter), so they work with like every peripheral made for the last 20 years.
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Aren’t the adaptors for USBC quite a bit more expensive? Is t there essentially a chip in the cable?
    - cesarb 7y ago
      No, adapters from USB-C to the older USB ports are completely passive, they only have a pair of resistors to identify as an adapter.
  - LASR 7y ago
    You know what's nice about Paraplegia? You can now use your legs (with a cheap prosthetic adapter), so they work like your legs exactly like they were the last 20 years.
  - mLuby 7y ago

themagician 7y ago

USB is that standard. The awesome thing about USB-C is all you need is a couple USB-A to USB-C adapters, which are cheap, and bam—all your devices are now compatible forward. And if you already have a USB hub all you need is one adapter.

Dude2029 7y ago
Apart from fast charging or connecting monitors via USB etc.
- ghostly_s 7y ago
  Which are things your device also did not do when you bought it. "Forward-compatible"!=="magic upgrade".
cjensen 7y ago
The USB-C Standard explicitly forbids use of USB-anything to USB-C adapters. Buy a USB-C to USB-other cable instead of trying to light your computer on fire. The reason it is forbidden is because using two adapters you can convert a USB-C cable into a USB-A to USB-A cable. USB-A ports are not required to handle exciting and unexpected voltage on the wrong pins.
- cesarb 7y ago
  The prohibition is only against USB-anything to USB-C socket. Adapters to USB-C plug are allowed (and can't create the invalid combination you just described).

phjesusthatguy3 7y ago

Stop buying stuff. If you can't do that, stop buying stuff that's incompatible with the stuff you already have.

wyattpeak 7y ago
This is a large but hardly the only aspect of compatibility: - Can I use friends'/family's chargers? Can I use public chargers? - Are my cables going to become difficult to find? Can I pick one up at the corner store in the middle of the night because mine failed? - What's going to happen when I need to interact with old hardware? Are converters available? Compatibility problems don't arise in perfect conditions, when you're at your desk with all your own current equipment. They arise in all the edge cases you will have to deal with over the at least several years you have a device.

userbinator 7y ago

The industry has decided that it is more profitable to make you buy adapters or a new device every couple of years (and create more e-waste in the process), hence the accelerating churn. And each new revision of the standard will introduce its own set of problems, guaranteeing them something to do for the next revision after that; but the churn situation with USB isn't actually that bad: USB 1.0 - 1996 USB 1.1 - 1998 USB 2.0 - 2000 USB 3.0 - 2008 USB 4.0 - 2019 Also, the vast majority of devices are still 1.x/2.x speed, so it might be more of a diminishing returns type of situation.

jdnenej 7y ago
Appart from storage and video, there is just no need to go over USB 2.0. My brand new USB microphone uses USB 2 because there is no advantage at all to USB 3.0 for this device.
- larkeith 7y ago
  I have a single USB 3.0 external hard drive. Everything else is USB 2.0. It's fantastic, I never have to worry about whether I have the right cord or if the device supports it, and in the rare case where I need to transfer a file large enough that sending it over the Internet would be a bottleneck, I just toss it on the external HDD.
dbtx 7y ago
USB 4.0 doth not exist. The string '4.0' does not appear in the zipped PDF. There is only USB4™

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Presumably they will obsolete use of USB4 over non-Type-C cabling since the older 3.x compatible connectors are hacks. That means, moving forward, everything from 1.1, 2.0, 3.x, and 4 will run on the same cabling. Intermediate hubs will downgrade bandwidth if they can't support the same speed as their upstream host so there will be an element of mystery there without clear markings.

kalleboo 7y ago

I'm mostly fine with how USB has turned out - USB-A ports on computers and chargers, microUSB on devices, and slowly everything is being replaced with USB-C. (and we can all forget about those wide microUSB superspeed plugs) What really chafes me is MiniUSB. It was superseded by microUSB 12 years ago, but it STILL turns up in brand-new devices. I recently bought an action cam, a dashcam, and a retro input device converter that all had MiniUSB. I only had a single MiniUSB cable for my PS3 controller so I had to go out and buy a bunch of obsolete cables. Reading threads where the independent maker of the retro converter was defending his choice, "I find MiniUSB is more sturdy". So now everyone buying his thing needs to stock another kind of cable for a device where the socket isn't even going to see much wear and tear. (and MiniUSB being more sturdy is debatable - the socket is designed for much fewer insert/remove cycles).

myself248 7y ago
Mini is more sturdy. I've destroyed a lot of micro devices over the years, never a single mini. Most of my workbench devices (serial converters, logic analyzers, etc) are mini, so they see a lot of use and abuse, but they just keep going. Micro is incredibly fragile in comparison. Also, a lot of devices like the Gopro and Tomtom came out when Mini was current, and kept compatibility for years to respect their customers who had invested in accessories and stuff, and didn't want all that to become useless if they upgraded to the new unit. I appreciate that.
- kelchm 7y ago
  The problem is that Mini USB tends to fail on the device side, while Micro USB is designed to fail on the cable side.
  - myself248 7y ago
    That may indeed be the design intent, but it's completely at odds with my experience across hundreds of devices and cables over the years. Micro has rendered numerous devices irreparable, or not-economical-to-repair, because the device-side connector fails. Thermal cameras, audio adapters, countless cellphones. Thankfully my daily-driver phones tend to be Samsungs which keep their USB connector on an easy-to-replace sub-board, but I can't say so much for FLIR's finest. I've thrown out my share of flaky micro cables, too, but those are cheap to replace. It's the device-side failures that have rained on my parade for years. Mini, on the other hand, has been bulletproof. Countless Beaglebone Black boards, FTDI adapters, logic analyzers strewn about my bench, my TomTom, my GoPro, even my old Blackberry was mini. And not a single one of them ever died because of a USB connector problem. (The magic smoke has escaped from more than a few, but that's another story entirely!) I've thrown out plenty of mini cables, sure, but the device-side connectors simply don't fail like their supposed design would suggest. Regardless of their intent, I consider inclusion of a micro port to simply be a design flaw at this point. Mini or C is the way to go.