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During the Renaissance, the beard was the defining feature of a man
- motohagiography 7y agoAnd the foregone conclusion in the article: "The dramatic uses of the sign of Renaissance masculinity par excellence – the beard – reveal how precarious, provisional and potentially groundless the ideology of early modern masculinity was, the very ideology upon which the sign-system of the stage relied. As we look at today’s hipsters – beards, man-buns and tattoos aplenty – we may also wonder what lies beneath the surface of the identities that they construct." Appears the writer confuses criticism with competence. It's the conceit of modern academia. Yawn.
- mturmon 7y agoI don't see criticism [of bearded hipsters, I suppose you mean] in that last paragraph. But it was disappointing because it hints at something but says nothing.
- Dirlewanger 7y agoIt honestly comes off as thinly-veiled misandry (wouldn't be surprising as the author is a woman). Would this be appropriate to say about cultural things around celebrating a young girl being a full-grown woman?
- Aloha 7y agoThe byline does indeed indicate it was written by a woman, but I've seen similar misandristic critical writing from men too.
- NoGravitas 7y agoMisandry isn't real.
- Excel_Wizard 7y agoWhy?
- nameismypw 7y agoThe same reason reverse racism isn't real.
- ameister14 7y agoThat's not possible. Reverse racism isn't real because it's just 'racism' and there's no reverse about it. Misandry is specific.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nameismypw 7y agoAlright fascist.
- SkyBelow 7y agoSince Asians are the global majority, discrimination against them is impossible? I find it interesting that the power + prejudice view is selectively enforced only at certain scales of power. Global? No. National? Depends upon the nation. Local? No. It is almost like the application of the definition assumes the power structure in the average US college town was representative world wide.
- subjectsigma 7y agoOh boy https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/
- nameismypw 7y agoLol, fuck off. Scientific racism apology is still racism apology.
- cycrutchfield 7y agoHow is an article about the role of beards in history “thinly-veiled misandry”? What’s with the MGTOW/redpill language?
- mirimir 7y agoWell, talking about "the ideology of early modern masculinity" as "precarious, provisional and potentially groundless" could be taken as misandry. But I suppose that one could say similar things about femininity and various aspects of female anatomy. I think that it's mostly about people altering their appearance to influence others.
- zaccus 7y agoI don't see any MGTOW/redpill language. Please don't evoke that nonsense here.
- foldingmoney 7y ago>What’s with the MGTOW/redpill language? I don't think it helps to jump to conclusions and start slinging labels. Doesn't advance the conversation. Like if someone expressed some innocuous belief held by republicans and was accused of being a white supremacist because some white supremacists are republicans. That's the death of civil discourse.
- C1sc0cat 7y agoSo what does that mean for that famous picture of the non bearded "Honeyed Cat" (a famous Condota / Mercenary then)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- elipsey 7y agoI'm sure this is a misunderstanding. I believe the author means to remind us that fashion and gender norms are arbitrary and performed, not to say that the hipsters chose theirs' _wrong_. Societal standards of masculinity are of particular interest here because they capricious, mutable, and especially likely to result in ass-kickings. In conclusion the author encourages us to reflect on the difference between the person and the performance, and hold our assumptions lightly. You are not your beard.
- klipt 7y agoIt seems a little clinical and dehumanizing. I wonder how people would react to similar writing about women: "The dramatic uses of the sign of Renaissance femininity par excellence – the hairdo – reveal how precarious, provisional and potentially groundless the ideology of early modern femininity was, the very ideology upon which the sign-system of the stage relied. As we look at today’s hipsters – hairdos, cardigans and makeup aplenty – we may also wonder what lies beneath the surface of the identities that they construct."
- elipsey 7y agoThat sounds like an equally valid criticism to me, but if you're sense of prudence suggests that some people might not want to hear it from a dude, so does mine. It's understandable that people sometimes feel like their being attacked en masse by outsiders when we talk about this, but I think we're better off if we're able to talk about it civilly. Looking and dressing "right" is hard for some people. Approaching our expectations with a more removed perspective helps, but does tend to sound clinical. For what it's worth my gf complains about this kind of stuff in a way that sounds similar to me, but using somewhat less high-brow language. :) EDIT: I asked gf what she thought of that paragraph: "meh i don't give shit it's fine." Then I asked if she thought a man could get away with saying it: "probably not on the internet LOL". n=1.
- slothtrop 7y agoThey'd say it's "tone-deaf", to borrow the lexicon.
- 7y ago
- zackkatz 7y agoThis article has the Renaissance in its title, but then continues to discuss the Elizabethan period. Shakespeare != Renaissance.
- ndarwincorn 7y agoWith a picture from 1881 at the top to boot.
- sampleinajar 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Renaissance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Renaissance
- djmips 7y agoAlso, what about the rest of the world. This is just specific European history. Seems pretty exclusionary.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y agoDo we have a lot of records about the Inuit Renaissance?
- djmips 7y agoWe know they didn't have large bushy European beards.
- thermonot 7y agoSo basically like today.
- dymk 7y agoNo, now it's laptop stickers
- omarhaneef 7y agoThat explains why a hipster would describe himself as a "Renaissance Man"
- scoobyyabbadoo 7y agoWell of course, this can be deduced scientifically: most characteristics of sexual dimorphism in humans are not polite to flaunt in public, but a beard is one of the few features of sexual dimorphism that is acceptably to show publicly, so it is only natural that men want to show off their beards.
- mywittyname 7y agoIt's quite acceptable to be tall and speak with a deep voice in society. Most male clothing is intended to highlight masculine features, such as broad shoulders, and present a generally "top heavy" look.
- jjtheblunt 7y agoLike Elizabeth Holmes tried to leverage, I just thought.
- User23 7y agoLikewise plenty of female clothing accentuates physical traits that happen to be fertility proxies.
- compiler-guy 7y agoIf this theory were true, then beards wouldn't come and go into and out of fashion. Which they do.
- blankaccount 7y agoDid beards go in/out of fashion, or did oppressing this particular form of masculinity go in/out of fashion?
- SketchySeaBeast 7y agoI guess the Romans, who considered beards barbaric, were oppressors of masculinity?
- roenxi 7y agoSafety razor was invented around WWII [0] and that is probably linked to the requirements of wearing a gas mask. Probably has something to do with the change in fashion. Fun fact; often there is a general ban on beards in underground coal mines because the miners need to be able to wear gas masks. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor#History
- Aloha 7y agoWWI, not II
- hokumguru 7y agoFirefighters also aren't allowed to grow beards for the same reason.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- seandhi 7y agoIt's the same way in chemical plants that handle H2S or other dangerous chemicals. I've always had a beard, but I'd have to shave it when installing or servicing our equipment in those plants.
- lacampbell 7y agoBeards went in and out of fashion a lot between the Renaissance and WWII.
- inawarminister 7y agoYeah, IIRC the Greeks were big into beards, while the Romans shave them most of the time.
- lacampbell 7y agoI mean in between the renaissance and WWII the fashion has changed a lot. They declined during the early modern period, took off after 1850, went out of fashion in the early 20th century, were common place in the 60's and 70's, and declined again until the recent revival this century.
- decoyworker 7y agoI have a theory that lazy/poor/busy modern men are the reason that beards are back in style. Economic factors contribute to trends pretty often.
- agumonkey 7y agoWhat about hipster kind bearded guys ? I see a lot a of Barbershop popping up while it wasn't really part of the Parisian culture much (I may be wrong though) and people actually spending time and money on their beardss.
- rebuilder 7y agoIsn't it almost a cliche that trends start in the underclasses and spread to the wealthy?
- agumonkey 7y agoI see plenty of factors: - fashion cycles, there was a need for a new one.. - vintage revival, fancy trimmed beards were a big thing in the previous 20s - young people wanting to make their own shop, so they jump on the bandwagon
- ambicapter 7y ago...generally its the opposite, no?
- mirimir 7y agoI've typically had a beard, because I hate shaving. Or rather, because I have both a bristly beard and sensitive skin. And no, shaving every day for years didn't "toughen up" my face.
- setr 7y agoSafety razors tend to be quite rough, and the canned foam offers little protection. Consider using a double edged razor and better cream (my personal usage is a merkur handle w/ feather blade, and cremo cream; a fairly cheap and effective set)
- mirimir 7y agoThanks. But that ship has sailed. I do not want to see what my face looks like, now.
- jschwartzi 7y agoYou'd be surprised. I've seen tons of men shave beards and instantly look 10-20 years younger. And my personal experience is that the years spent shaving my face and then applying balm means I was getting carded well into my late 20s until last year. If you ever did want to shave your beard, have a professional do it first and then maintain it with your own razor. And try different blades if you go with a double-edge safety razor. GP uses Feather, but Feather blades cut the crap out of my face. I've also used Gillette Silver Blue, which irritate my neck but work pretty well otherwise. And I've settled on Gillette Platinum which work really well for my face even dull. Another tip is getting the water hot enough to make a good lather. A lot of modern apartment buildings set the water heaters low enough that I can't get a good lather, so I usually have to boil water in an electric kettle and then mix it down to a good shaving temperature. It's totally worth it.
- mirimir 7y agoFor me, it'd be the jowls. I know that they're there. But I just don't want to see them. If I did shave, I'd probably go with an electric razor. For some years, I just used an electric clipper. I kept both head and face at 2-5 mm.
- JohnJamesRambo 7y agoBeards are too hot for a global warming earth. I don’t see a fifth age of beards coming.
- chabes 7y agoBeards are not actually as hot as they might seem. Think of how a shady forest buffers the temperature. Compared to the surrounding area, it is cooler in the heat of the day, and warmer in the cold of night
- JohnJamesRambo 7y agoLol I’ve had a beard I’ll trust my own assessment.
- cafard 7y agoThe defining feature of a man? If so, why were codpieces in fashion?
- mirimir 7y agoAlthough codpieces aren't in fashion, tight jeans leave little to the imagination. And it's not uncommon for dress pants to be maybe a little tight in the crotch.
- h2odragon 7y agoEagerly awaiting the next fashion trend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koteka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koteka
- zackmorris 7y agoAnyone have any luck growing a beard after a lifetime of not being able to? My dad could grow one after 40 but no such luck for me. Also I had a few bad sunburns under my chin snowboarding and I wonder if I triggered something like an electrolysis effect. I've noticed that some things like drinking alcohol seem to stimulate brief growth but it's not a permanent fix hah. Also I've read that testosterone levels today are much lower than what the baby boomers had, but I don't know how scientific that is. I haven't been to a doctor to get my T level checked, just curious.
- bdcravens 7y agoI'm 42, and can only grow a mustache and a scragly looking goatee. I'm a small guy, due to health issues, but I also have my testosterone checked for the same health issues, and it is normal. Either it's a combination of more issues (digestion perhaps? I have issues there) or it could be genetic (I'm 1/8 Native American, for example)
- zackmorris 7y agoI'm the same age, kind of a taller guy because I'm 1/2 Swedish. You bring up a good point about digestive issues, because I've definitely had them over the past few years and I think they were brought on by bodybuilding supplements and/or stress. At one point my eyebrows thinned pretty severely and I think it was due to anxiety/burnout at my job. I'm wondering if beards are held in such high esteem because they are an indicator of overall constitution like face symmetry or straight teeth.
- test1235 7y agoit's probably something as basic as making your chin look bigger
- coybanana 7y agoI'm 27, and I can say my ability to grow a beard has slowly improved, though I don't have anything full. That said, I do have a twin brother who can. I have a few marks on my face, so maybe your theory is on to something!
- mjw1007 7y agoThe idea of "four great beard movements" seems like an odd framing. Another way to look at it is that periodically the somewhat-unnatural act of shaving becomes fashionable.
- buboard 7y agoArticle makes it sound as if beardlessness is some kind of default? Not sure if true
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoStop shaving and let us know how that turns out.
- gnzoidberg 7y agoWhy is this here?
- zaccus 7y agoYou don't need to read much ancient literature to know that beards have always been associated with manliness. Going out on a limb here, but my guess is that's because typically only adult men can grow them. Shocking I know. Anyway, it's not particular to the Renaissance at all.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mensetmanusman 7y agoRegulated labs that use facial respirators do not allow employees to have facial hair where the attachment seal rests...
- bobthechef 7y agoI'm pretty sure that characterization of Aristotle is bullshit. Sadly, there is a great deal that Aristotle is slanderously impugned with and mischaracterized with, including his views of women. It's a game of historian telephone and shoddy scholarship, it seems. In this case, if there's even a whiff of authenticity to the claim, it would seem that Aristotle's thoughts on development may have been given an uneducated "normative reading", i.e., one in which the author attempts to once again reinforce the idea that Aristotle was a silly bigot that we, in all our modern wisdom, should scoff at and dismiss as an unsophisticated rube. Anyway, what's the point of this article? All I see is some woman swinging a gender ideology axe around looking for something to hit with an hazy insinuation or superficial remark. I honestly couldn't care less about hipster beards and no one claims that beards make a man a man, only that beards are a male feature.
- word-reader 7y agoOne of the pellets in this scattershot is basically, because sometimes beards are associated with being a man, and sometimes being clean-shaven is associated with being a man, there are surely no cross-cultural or cross-temporal ideals about masculinity at all and being a man can be completely redefined by lecturers in early modern masculinity or whoever. That being said, as someone who can't grow a great beard, I'll always have the Romans; can't blame it on gas masks or TV ads back then.
- anderspitman 7y ago> Anyway, what's the point of this article? To sell the author's new book.
- rjplatte 7y agoThis article is trying to say that because the theatre used beards as a symbol of manliness, the entire male identity revolved around beards. This is ridiculous. Hoopskirts were used to represent matronly women in early American theatre: therefore women gathered around these laughable garments as a symbol of their femininity.
- lacampbell 7y agoIt's been a while since I've lived in a western city - is the bearded hipster still a thing? My gut tells me it must have passed its expiry date by now, but I'm not sure.
- 0xdeadb00f 7y agoYes it's still a thing. I don't even think it's decreased, society just seems to care less about them than before. Because hipsters are "growing up", and so are the people who criticised them in the first place, you don't hear about it as much anymore. ("criticised" seems like the wrong word, but I can't think of another that fits).