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Palantir forced out of job fair after outcry over ICE contracts
- thepaperone 7y agoGet "woke". Go "broke". Companies with sensitive government contracts shouldn't position themselves on the west coast as their employees will generally be too progressive.
- dejawu 7y agoRestructure your economy so you don't have to exploit people to make a decent living.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- weberc2 7y agoYou mean the country that is drawing so much criticism for trying to enforce its immigration laws?
- sergiotapia 7y agoIt's so alien to me how this line of thinking is normalized in the US. In other countries illegal aliens are deported because they are breaking the law. In Bolivia you would have a very difficult time finding bolivians who want to allow illegal colombians or brazilians to stay in the country. They want them out because they disproportionately commit more of the drug/violent crime. In argentina, they want illegal bolivians out because they take jobs for very little money. You can go on country by country. Why is the US so divided on this? Who spent so much money to push this train of thought for decades onto people?
- mises 7y agoAmerica wasn't for a long time. You can find footage of most leftist politicians supporting stronger borders. Basically, President Trump made it a campaign issue, and so the left stopped. Orange Man bad, basically.
- yardie 7y agostrong borders != a dumb, expensive wall. The left's position has not changed much on border security at all. Process asylum claims faster, penalize employers for participating in illegal hiring, and use modern tech to control borders.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y agoInterestingly, two terms of Obama presidency have a notable dip in a number of processed applications: https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/539/ https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/539/
- ng12 7y agoI'd believe that under the Obama administration but it's a much tougher sell now.
- jknoepfler 7y agoI refuse to believe that you actually believe what you wrote, upon a moment's reflection. Opposing Trump's approach to immigration doesn't equate to opposing better border security. That's like equating opposition to "No Child Left Behind" with opposing "improving K-12 education." Trump's border policy promises to be both ineffective, extremely expensive, and a semi-permanent symbol of xenophobia and racism. If I had to stack-rank: (a) a literal Southern border wall motivated by President Trump's vile campaign rhetoric. (b) making the border completely open and defunding ICE entirely I'd prefer (b) - but I still think (b) is a terrible idea. I actually (unlike most people who are "afraid of immigrants") know a convicted violent felon who was deported from the United States to their home country (in Europe) after serving a prison sentence who I legitimately think is a threat to people I care about, and who I don't want re-entering the country under any circumstances (Ironically the deportee is a diagnosed pathological narcissist) - and I still prefer open borders to what the current executive leadership of the United States is pushing. The question is not whether to have controls on who/what crosses the border, the question is how and why. I personally think the marginal utility of spending additional Federal dollars policing the border and enforcing immigration controls is a net negative to the United States given our current infrastructure, so I believe we should spend less time and money doing it. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues for controlling externalities caused by illegal immigration (such as they are).
- nugga 7y agoI don't have the answer to these questions: who benefits from people staying in usa illegally and why? Why are (some) people illegally staying in usa being 'weaponized' as a political tool? As long as we have borders and nations, why shouldn't a country decide who gets in and why?
- JoeAltmaier 7y agoBecause we're the land of the free? When was the last time you showed your passport to go from Iowa to Illinois etc? We wrote it into our Constitution that interstate travel would be unfettered. And back when that was written, each 'State' was indeed an independent political entity. Extending this today to other Nations is not so foreign an idea.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y agoThe land of the free, pretty much by definition assumes no social services. That being said, I personally would not mind retiring in the UK with British medicine, British housing and British retirement benefits.
- JoeAltmaier 7y agoSocial services have been present in America since before Revolutionary times. This idea that 'America Great Again' means selfishness and abandoning the old and poor, is a purely modern idea of the last decade.
- Daishiman 7y agoEnforcement of immigration policies in those countries, with the possible exception of Bolivia, is far laxer.
- manfredo 7y agoIs it? Mexico deports roughly as many migrants as the US. Proportional to the population, this is over 2x as much. And let's not get started on India's deportation of Muslims to neighboring countries. This assumption that the US is uniquely strict in its border enforcement does not seem to hold water.
- ebiester 7y agoThe liberal (not progressive) argument is this: To solve the issue of undocumented immigration, we should: 1. enforce e-verify nationwide. If a company is caught employing undocumented workers and the company is not using e-verify, the executives are put in prison. Documentation fraud from the immigrant remains a crime punishable by prison and deportation. 2. Regardless of deporting or not, those in detention should be treated humanely, given food, water, shelter, and adequate space. Parents and children should not be separated. For those not charged with a crime, it should not be built the same way as a prison -- It doesn't have to be the Four Seasons to be humane. 3. ICE raids terrorize legal residents and citizens of color. As mentioned in #1, any such "raids" should be against HR. If you make employers accountable, the problem becomes much smaller. Yes, if someone is arrested and is undocumented they should be deported. No, we shouldn't be breaking down doors and sending militarized teams to do so. 4. Immigration reform is a completely different topic.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- psychometry 7y agoConsidering the right-wing is increasingly hostile to science, facts, and the educated, I think it's going to be hard to find college grads anywhere who will be willing to work on such projects.
- the_duke 7y agoMoney will always trump morals for a sufficiently large amount of people. (no pun intended)
- 0xDEFC0DE 7y agoAs an aside to this thread, I think Palantir has been floating on Ivy League hires and prestige instead of money for its positions
- FakeComments 7y agoFeminism makes women unhappy, as its net effect. https://www.nber.org/papers/w14969 https://www.nber.org/papers/w14969 It’s well documented in social sciences, yet the left-wing continues to push an ideology of suffering as somehow “pro-women”. “Hostile to science” isn’t uniquely right-wing.
- camdenlock 7y agoThe left-wing is equally hostile to science, facts, and the educated, depending on which topic is under scientific scrutiny. The hard-right scoff at the results of scientific inquiry into climate change. The hard-left scoff at the results of scientific inquiry into sex differences. Both sides would do well to set aside their cherished narratives and simply analyze the facts revealed by the current best science.
- spamizbad 7y agoTell that to Nike. Their stock price has nearly doubled. You may not like it and you may not agree with it, but it's smart business. It's like saying Fox News should be less conservative. A very bad idea: there's big money in conservative television media.
- Fellshard 7y agoIt does, however, make you far more vulnerable, as any dirt found on you now reflects badly on your newly selected customer base, and they will react even more viciously in response. See the recent Soulcycle debacle for a prime example of that. EDIT: Heh. For those who say 'we don't do that!' - yes, you do.
- badrabbit 7y agoUsed some if their product. They do a good job. Perfect example of how good products can be used to cause so much harm.
- thepaperone 7y agoEnsuring multinational corporations don't illegally exploit international labor to the detriment of the American worker is doing harm... riiiight.
- albalus 7y agoMore like a governmental agency's predatory tracking and snatching of the exploited who are just trying to work as opposed to going after the corporations that are turning a blind eye to the status of their employees and are unwilling to pay competitive wages is ... Wroonnngg.
- cabaalis 7y ago> About 4.5 million of the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, or 42 percent of the total undocumented population, overstayed visas, according to the report. [1] You're right, they are just people trying to work, and there needs to be better handling of the entire situation. However almost half of them made an agreement with the government and then reneged. People should abide by the agreements they make. [1] https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/border-illegal-immigration-visa-overstays https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/border-illegal-immigr...
- pm90 7y agoUnder this criteria, all Marijuana users in the US are guilty of at least Misdemeanors and probably Felony drug possession. Under this criteria, every person who has ever driven over the speed limit, and especially a large amount over the speed limit, is Guilty. Do you see what the problem is with your reasoning.
- creaghpatr 7y agoHow will they recover from this devastating blow?
- ng12 7y agoAs Google has recently proven steering clear of the politically woke is probably the right move anyways.
- tomlock 7y agoTheir share price seems to be doing ok.
- colpabar 7y agoWould you argue that there isn't a gun problem because gun sales went up after a shooting?
- dmix 7y agoTrying to keep them all happy on Twitter is like herding cats. Eventually they realize it doesn't matter how many emergency half-baked 'solutions' they come up with in time before the news cycle moves on to the next outrage.
- weiming 7y agoSoon, activists will start boycotting Microsoft (gov't agencies use Word and Excel), 3M (gov't agencies use Post-it notes), and Charmin (they also buy toilet paper).
- adatavizguy 7y agoI've been boycotting Angle Soft for political reasons. Not that anyone cares.
- mises 7y agoWhat is angle soft, and for what political reasons are you boycotting it? Maybe if you provided more info, people would.
- adatavizguy 7y agoIt is toilet paper manufactured by Georgia Pacific a subsidiary of Koch Industries. I don't have a car because I can work from home so I mostly walk or bike keeping healthy although doing it for environmental reasons. I also boycott refined sugar in protest against mismanagement of sugar cane production runoff in Florida. Nobody cares about that either, however, I've lost a ton of weight since and my dentist says that my teeth are perfectly healthy, so there is that.
- Varriount 7y agoOne protests where they can, and where it's feasible. In this instance, they were in a position to turn down a company that not only makes software that is directly used for purposes they don't agree with, but whose CEO has a viewpoint they strongly oppose (in contrast with Microsoft, 3M, or Charmin, which support in a very indirect fashion).
- rtkwe 7y agoBig difference between making general purpose software like MS is and making software specifically for a specific purpose...
- goatinaboat 7y agoI would have assumed that lesbian ideas about immigration ran the gamut of the political spectrum, just the same as non-lesbians. It’s curious that they apparently cluster at one end.
- weiming 7y agoDiversity != Diversity of thought
- FoxPaw 7y agoWhat I think you're trying to say is: "A group of people who value diversity overwhelmingly support politics which promote diversity and reject politics which do not. But I wish they either didn't care about diversity or valued diversity in a way that didn't influence their politics because it annoys me."
- manfredo 7y agoDiversity of what, though? I've worked at progressive tech companies. They're okay at achieving diversity of skin color, but pretty bad at achieving a diversity of world views. Expulsion explicitly on the basis of the fact that Palantir sells products to ICE is going to reduce diversity by alienating the significant segment of the population that does support border enforcement.
- mises 7y agoIt depends on who you're looking at. There are a few "loud", activist-y homosexuals, but most just go live their lives like any one else. You hear a lot more from the "activist-y" types because they tend to be much louder.
- goatinaboat 7y agoPalantir has a group called Palan-queer https://www.palantir.com/diversity/ https://www.palantir.com/diversity/ for LGBT’s
- 7y ago
- kontorlaore 7y agoGood. Any company who works with ICE, the Army or the Police should be boycotted.
- jdlyga 7y agoNobody likes the idea of arresting undocumented immigrants and kicking them out of the country. It could probably be done in a better way too. And the legal immigration system is crazy (I've dealt with it myself). But it's work that needs to be done to secure the border, even though it's heartbreaking sometimes. Just like security making sure people don't sneak into a concert without a ticket. I probably wouldn't want to work for a company that was involved in supplying info to ICE raids, but there's a lot of jobs I wouldn't be interested in doing. People should be able to decide for themselves.
- spamizbad 7y agoIs there any documented evidence on the efficacy of ICE raids? They seem to function primarily as a destabilizing force in communities. We certainly seemed to be doing fine prior to 2003. From what I can see, they're a bloated DHS organ that's sucking down massive amounts of tax dollars for what amounts to security theater. You'd think in the $47 billion DHS budget they'd find some money for things like soap and toothbrushes.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y agoYes, there is evidence, right on the ICE website: https://www.ice.gov/features/ERO-2018 https://www.ice.gov/features/ERO-2018
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- spamizbad 7y agoA sweep targeting thousands of people nation-wide resulted in only 35 arrests: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-07-23/ice-raids-immigration-arrests https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-07-23/ice-ra... The number on ICE's website are computed based on an Obama-era change where they can count turning away people at the border as a deportation.
- 7y ago
- igrekel 7y agoStupid question: The article never says what ICE is, anyone can give a clue to non-americas readers?
- sjg007 7y agoIt's the investigative and law enforcement side of the Department of Homeland security.
- nixgeek 7y agoDepartment of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement
- atlasunshrugged 7y agoIt's the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency
- bart_spoon 7y agoIts the government agency that tracks illegal immigration and detains/deports them.
- par 7y agoComment readers be warned, this is a fairly toxic and divisive thread.
- csmattryder 7y agoYou would've thought that the esteemed readers of HN would be able to spot and rise above an article like this, knowing there's no "winning side" and you're not gonna be changing anyone's views today. Humans of all calibre just love a scrap, it seems.
- bilbo0s 7y agoAnd any humans who don't love the scrap probably make liberal use of that "flag" button.
- SpicyLemonZest 7y agoI don’t think it would be appropriate to rise above an article like this. It matters if a major tech company gets excluded from things, whether you think that the community is rising up against bad tech or that Palantir is being unfairly demonized. You can’t make a rule of never discussing controversial things.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- vorpalhex 7y agoI think that's an unfair characterization. You may dislike what many commenters are saying, but the comments are polite, avoid personal attacks and make reasonably good faith arguments. I disagree with many of them, but I wouldn't call them toxic or divisive.
- tryitnow 7y agoDoesn't Palantir also contract with Middle-Eastern governments that are not exactly known for their outstanding record on LGBTQ affairs? If so, I'm surprised that that concern wasn't brought up.
- devoply 7y agoYes a gay man like Thiel not looking out for LGBTQ people's rights would be quite shocking. But then money knows no gender orientation.
- sorokod 7y agoWhy would there be any correlation between sexual orientation and morality?
- EForEndeavour 7y agoThat's not what OP was trying to say. The point here is the irony of Peter Thiel, an openly gay man, having cofounded Palantir, which helps foreign governments persecute LGBTQ+ people.
- ng12 7y agoWell I mean, the organizers of this job fair certainly seem to think there is.
- goatinaboat 7y agoThat surprisingly doesn’t seem to matter to most tech people, no one boycotts Vision Fund companies (I personally do).
- woeirua 7y agoSo we have the fake outrage here over working with a government organization to enforce the law (which you may disagree with, but it is still the law). Meanwhile, Apple, Google, etc all get a free pass for working with China, which is doing far worse things to its citizens, and has made no attempt to conceal that it wants to use those tech companies to do even worse things. The hypocrisy on this board is astounding at times.
- JeremyBanks 7y agoI'm not sure how you could consider Google to have been given a "free pass", given the number of times stories about employees protesting those issues have trended here.
- woeirua 7y agoWhen was the last time Google was kicked out of a job fair over their products or abuse of personal data?
- phissk 7y agoYou seem to forget that what you refer to as "still the law" is only the law in one country (the USA), and when Apple, Google etc comply in China the rules they are complying with are "still the law" in that country.
- somethingtosay 7y agoLet's be honest. Palantir's business model is mass surveillance of people (including, especially, US citizens). They allow many government agencies to circumvent the legal procedures required to access government databases by instead using theirs. If you support that, more power to you. Be honest about what you're supporting though. This is not just about ICE. This is not the same as the advertiser tracking.
- ng12 7y agoPalantir is much closer to a consulting agency (think SAP or IBM) than anything like that.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- somethingtosay 7y agoThat's a very kind way to characterize their work. Regardless, they are in the mass surveillance business. Some of their product manuals are out there to read. Edit: I personally think calling them just a 'consulting' company is a silly way to obscure the things on which they consult.
- ng12 7y agoThey're in the data analysis business. Your government is in the mass surveillance business. If ICE fed the data into Tableau instead would that be any different?
- somethingtosay 7y agoThis is not an accurate comparison you're making and I think you know that. Palantir designs products specifically for mass tracking of people. Tableau does not.
- ng12 7y ago
- pimmen 7y agoThis is how the world changes. Just because ICE is enforcing the law does not mean that what they do with Palantir’s software is ethical. Once upon a time the military was enforcing the law by outing and dismissing gay people and that changed by private entities taking a stand. Just acting on the default that enforcing the current law is ethical is just lazy, IMHO. So, you can have any opinion you want about whether or not the job fair should have acted the way it did but I think it’s well within their right to do so if they want to make an impact.
- tibbydudeza 7y agoNo problem with enforcing the law of the land but locking up kids and separating them from their parents , and withholding essentials like basic cleaning and health services makes this a moral issue of those who enable this i.e Amazon, Palantir etc ...
- alfromspace 7y agoEveryone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. As for poor living conditions, it isn't really a systemic or intentional thing. Conditions vary by facility. Some are remarkably fine, some are strained beyond their capacity. That's not really their fault. Let's apply some agency to the people coming across the border, rather than just ICE. Personally, I wouldn't think to illegally sneak into a country, refuse to leave, then complain about not getting dental care and a comfy bed fast enough. Spare me. How about we just not let them in? https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-called-family-detention-summer-camp-heres-what-it-looks-like-inside/2019/08/25/8f32609e-c679-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-c...
- devoply 7y ago> Everyone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. Fake outcry. If a parent is sent to jail, the children are given to protective services not sent into internment camps without basic necessities. How about all the Europeans go back to their countries and the natives round up their kids in internment camps.
- alfromspace 7y agoWe can complain about conditions in child protective services, too. No system is perfect. I suspect this is a tactical criticism, and the conditions aren't the real objection, but rather the fact that we're not just releasing everyone to freely live in the interior. Are you implying unwanted mass immigration was bad for the native Americans? Is it good for the Europeans now?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- heedlessly2 7y agoSounds like a PR stunt by this this organization holding the career fair. They knew what they were getting themselves into when they accepted Palantir's money to hold a table their. This ICE reputation by Palantir isn't some new revelation. if I took money from Trump, am I going pretend to act shocked when he did something controversial? No, I knew the whole time