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> From a Darwinian perspective even the death penalty is insufficient, Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. In fact the entirety of laws are opposed to d

> From a Darwinian perspective even the death penalty is insufficient, Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. In fact the entirety of laws are opposed to darwinism Plus we re probably the last generations that care for darwinism? It won't take long before it becomes normal to engineer your children.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hirundo 7y ago
> Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. To a Darwinian rapist / insemination fraudster / seduction fraudster, this is a kind of loophole that he can slip through. Modern law doesn't sufficiently incentivise him to desist.
- buboard 7y ago
  It would be fun to see seduction outlawed. What would be the punishment for seductors and seductees?
  - hirundo 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_(tort) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_(tort)
    - andrepd 7y ago
      Love it. That short page is absolutely filled with "gems" (for lack of a better word).
    - buboard 7y ago
      It appears the seducer would pay with monetary damages and the seducted would pay with a life in disgrace
      - ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago
        So, a marriage? /s
tarunupaday 7y ago
>Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. While some laws are created to protect the weakest; a lot of inheritance, marriage and family laws follow their rationale directly from Darwinism.
- buboard 7y ago
  If there was one in the past, it certainly doesnt exist today. Marriage laws seem to have evolved to laws protecting the mother and ensuring the child can grow sufficiently comfortable.
- staticman2 7y ago
  Marriage and family laws predate Darwin and have nothing to do with "Darwinism". They are products of, in anything, human social psychology.
  - DoctorOetker 7y ago
    With Darwinism he obviously doesn't mean the field of study, but rather the subject of the field of study, which was already happening way before Darwin's discovery of it, shaping among other things human social psychology...
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Marriage and family laws are based upon centuries-old cultural traditions that evolved and survived to the present day by virtue of promoting their own survival. That’s Darwinism. The fact that they predate Darwin is as meaningless as the fact that Earth’s orbit around the sun predates Copernicus.
robbrown451 7y ago
Capital punishment is/was considered a deterrent because we are programmed to attempt to avoid premature death by natural selection. That's not to say people always understood this or even that today it is the way most people think about it, but at least according to a mechanistic/biological view of behavior, that is the basis. Note that natural selection did NOT necessarily put a desire to pass on our genes into us, since that wasn't necessary. It simply put such things as a desire to continue living, a drive to care for children (which can easily be transferred to non-biological children, and we can easily ignore that drive for biological children that we don't bond to), and a drive to have sex.
SantalBlush 7y ago
>In fact the entirety of laws are opposed to darwinism I don't see how this is true. Can you explain this position?
- buboard 7y ago
  starting with killing competitors, all egotistical traits are darwinian. If anything, laws exist to stop us from that
  - SantalBlush 7y ago
    Do you mean to suggest that cooperation is not a Darwinian trait? Or that social animals are not a product of natural selection? Because I'm pretty sure that is false.
philwelch 7y ago
That’s like saying we’re the last generation that cares about gravity. Darwinism is part of how the world works. It’s not something to be accepted or denied or supported or opposed. It’s just reality, and at most it’s a constraint to work around. If you try to fix society by pretending that Darwinism doesn’t exist, that’s like trying to build a house by pretending that mold and water damage don’t exist.
- buboard 7y ago
  There is no invention on the horizon that will counterweight gravity, as opposed to genetic engineering.I think it's fair to say that procreation will not determine our genetic future, but the choices of genes that the people of the next few generations will make. And people's vanity may compel them to perpetuate their own genes, but given the opportunity people always choose the best possible genes for their kids (i.e. choose healthy sperm donors with generally considered "higher genes" - i.e. Danes). The OP describes a system where darwinism is used to determine how to punish people. i.e. darwinism is the source of law. That's not happening.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    I don’t know or believe that genetic engineering is anywhere close to ready for those kinds of purposes any more than waterproof materials are ready for house builders to stop worrying about drainage and other basic principles of water damage. And we’re a hell of a lot farther along in terms of waterproof materials! In fact I think it’s slightly more likely that you’ve been suckered into a scam perpetrated by Danish men for reasons that are plainly obvious from a Darwinist perspective ;) Seems like more of a crackpot Nordic eugenic superman theory to me.
    - buboard 7y ago
      embryo selection is already a thing today, and there are already crispr'd humans. Considering the pace of genetic research it's not unreasonable to expect that genetic selection of traits will be available within 20-50 years. Whatever scam the danism men are running , it's working https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a6134/danish-sperm-donors/ https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a6134/danish-sperm-donor...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hirundo 7y ago

> Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. To a Darwinian rapist / insemination fraudster / seduction fraudster, this is a kind of loophole that he can slip through. Modern law doesn't sufficiently incentivise him to desist.

buboard 7y ago
It would be fun to see seduction outlawed. What would be the punishment for seductors and seductees?
- hirundo 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_(tort) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_(tort)
  - andrepd 7y ago
    Love it. That short page is absolutely filled with "gems" (for lack of a better word).
  - buboard 7y ago
    It appears the seducer would pay with monetary damages and the seducted would pay with a life in disgrace
    - ZoomZoomZoom 7y ago
      So, a marriage? /s

tarunupaday 7y ago

>Darwinism has no bearing on legal matters. While some laws are created to protect the weakest; a lot of inheritance, marriage and family laws follow their rationale directly from Darwinism.

buboard 7y ago
If there was one in the past, it certainly doesnt exist today. Marriage laws seem to have evolved to laws protecting the mother and ensuring the child can grow sufficiently comfortable.
staticman2 7y ago
Marriage and family laws predate Darwin and have nothing to do with "Darwinism". They are products of, in anything, human social psychology.
- DoctorOetker 7y ago
  With Darwinism he obviously doesn't mean the field of study, but rather the subject of the field of study, which was already happening way before Darwin's discovery of it, shaping among other things human social psychology...
- philwelch 7y ago
  Marriage and family laws are based upon centuries-old cultural traditions that evolved and survived to the present day by virtue of promoting their own survival. That’s Darwinism. The fact that they predate Darwin is as meaningless as the fact that Earth’s orbit around the sun predates Copernicus.

robbrown451 7y ago

Capital punishment is/was considered a deterrent because we are programmed to attempt to avoid premature death by natural selection. That's not to say people always understood this or even that today it is the way most people think about it, but at least according to a mechanistic/biological view of behavior, that is the basis. Note that natural selection did NOT necessarily put a desire to pass on our genes into us, since that wasn't necessary. It simply put such things as a desire to continue living, a drive to care for children (which can easily be transferred to non-biological children, and we can easily ignore that drive for biological children that we don't bond to), and a drive to have sex.

SantalBlush 7y ago

>In fact the entirety of laws are opposed to darwinism I don't see how this is true. Can you explain this position?

buboard 7y ago
starting with killing competitors, all egotistical traits are darwinian. If anything, laws exist to stop us from that
- SantalBlush 7y ago
  Do you mean to suggest that cooperation is not a Darwinian trait? Or that social animals are not a product of natural selection? Because I'm pretty sure that is false.

philwelch 7y ago

That’s like saying we’re the last generation that cares about gravity. Darwinism is part of how the world works. It’s not something to be accepted or denied or supported or opposed. It’s just reality, and at most it’s a constraint to work around. If you try to fix society by pretending that Darwinism doesn’t exist, that’s like trying to build a house by pretending that mold and water damage don’t exist.

buboard 7y ago
There is no invention on the horizon that will counterweight gravity, as opposed to genetic engineering.I think it's fair to say that procreation will not determine our genetic future, but the choices of genes that the people of the next few generations will make. And people's vanity may compel them to perpetuate their own genes, but given the opportunity people always choose the best possible genes for their kids (i.e. choose healthy sperm donors with generally considered "higher genes" - i.e. Danes). The OP describes a system where darwinism is used to determine how to punish people. i.e. darwinism is the source of law. That's not happening.
- philwelch 7y ago
  I don’t know or believe that genetic engineering is anywhere close to ready for those kinds of purposes any more than waterproof materials are ready for house builders to stop worrying about drainage and other basic principles of water damage. And we’re a hell of a lot farther along in terms of waterproof materials! In fact I think it’s slightly more likely that you’ve been suckered into a scam perpetrated by Danish men for reasons that are plainly obvious from a Darwinist perspective ;) Seems like more of a crackpot Nordic eugenic superman theory to me.
  - buboard 7y ago
    embryo selection is already a thing today, and there are already crispr'd humans. Considering the pace of genetic research it's not unreasonable to expect that genetic selection of traits will be available within 20-50 years. Whatever scam the danism men are running , it's working https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a6134/danish-sperm-donors/ https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a6134/danish-sperm-donor...