15 ms·

Meeting online has become the most popular way U.S. couples connect: study

126 points by t23 7y ago

zzzcarrot 7y ago
What site do you find the best for online dating?
- Johnny555 7y ago
  It's been a while since I've been online dating (almost a decade), but the best site I found was not even a dating site (well, not primarily a dating site, but most people there tended to be single): https://www.meetup.com/ https://www.meetup.com/ I'd sign up for hikes and other things I was interested in and met a lot of women, dated a few. One good thing is that you'd tend to see the same people over and over, so you can get past the quick 10 second "like or not" rut that you get into with online dating, and you start to see people more for their personality. But it's a time investment, with online dating I could typically go out on one or two dates a week, while with meetup hikes, I'd maybe find someone to date every month or two of weekend hiking. Ultimately though, I found my wife on a whim through a non-dating chat service - she was living thousands of miles from me and I picked her pretty much at random (no profile, no picture, just a username, age, and gender). Took nearly a year of chatting before we even met in person.
Zhenya 7y ago
I am more interested to know whether successfully married couples are more likely to meet online than all couples. Maybe this simply demonstrates an uptick in number of relationships and less time someone is single until they find their long-term mate/partner.
- ahoy 7y ago
  I've been with my partner over 9 years and we aren't married. I'd consider ours a "successful" relationship.
  - youeseh 7y ago
    When I was a kid, I just thought that all couples who lived together were "married". It didn't matter whether there was a ceremony, or a legal contract. They lived together, made out with each other (ew), and since they were family friends, they were also automatically uncle and auntie. Then priests and politicians decided to mess it all up.
- phil248 7y ago
  Given that a marriage probably can't be considered "successful" until it has lasted several decades, we may be waiting a while for that data!
- youeseh 7y ago
  I don't have data to back this up, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone who gets married today is more likely to meet their husband / wife online. There are a few reasons for this. - Lower risk of looking bad. Date didn't go bad? No worries.. none of your friends have to find out it was your fault. - Less pressure from family and friends to pair up with someone. They'll only find out when you're ready. - Fewer couples meet at work - there are many reasons for this, and some may even argue that this is for the better. But, this does mean that more people will meet online. - Fewer couples meet at church. There just aren't as many church goers in Western countries as before. Again, there are a few reasons for this.. but the result is that more people end up online. - People move more than ever. And it becomes more difficult to meet someone as we get older (no school to be a common connection), and one day you just want to meet your next relationship. So you get right down to business: get an online dating account. - More choices to find that perfect someone online.
  - taylodl 7y ago
    Completely anecdotal but all the young couples I know getting married have all met in real life, no exceptions. It makes me suspect HN’s claim that everybody meets online today. My anecdotal experience says it’s exactly the opposite.
    - youeseh 7y ago
      That is pretty interesting! Maybe it is a generational backlash to social media accounts =). I have two pretty young friends (early 20s) - one met his significant girlfriend through other friends on a night out. The other met his girlfriend online. They're both pretty happy.
    - cableshaft 7y ago
      I have at least 4 married couples amongst my friends that met online (2 of them through World of Warcraft, though). I'm about to get married to a woman I met through online dating. I was actually trying really hard to date people in person too, I was going to tons of meetups, and getting some dates out of that, it just so happened that the woman I'm marrying ended up being someone that messaged me on an online dating app four years ago. I do know married couples that met through Meetup and other in-person methods as well, so online is definitely not everyone's only option anymore, but online is a definitely viable option.
- obviuosly 7y ago
  Equivalently, you can look at divorce statistics of couples that meet online vs offline. A study from 2013 suggests that the divorce rate is lower and marriage satisfaction is higher for couples meeting online, but only slightly. This seems to suggest that online dating is only marginally better than offline dating. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-online-dating-could-do-to-divorce-rates-2017-10-16 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-online-dating-could-d...
- deleted 7y ago
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elicash 7y ago
At some point, it's just called "dating." This is like saying I'm doing "online job seeking" because I find out about jobs online. At a certain point, that's just the default for how it's done. Similarly, I'm not "online working" because my job is done mostly online. I'm just working.
- InitialLastName 7y ago
  This. By the logic of calling out that this is "online", 99% of HN users are "typists" by profession.
  - elicash 7y ago
    I think what the study is really talking about is "algorithmic-based" introductions. But excluding a situation where you see a friend-of-a-friend comment on Instagram and sending them a message from "online dating" just shows how useless the term has become because it's all online.
- krustyburger 7y ago
  I’m not sure if you’re being glib but there really is a fundamental distinction here. Meeting someone because of the workings of an algorithm on a platform both of you have signed up for is substantially different than meeting someone through mutual friends or even through happenstance. And your line of work may not be differentiated by whether or not it’s online, but that is not true of a whole host of more traditional jobs. I’m thinking not just of anything involving manual labor but also of the majority of service work, from hairdressing to restaurant service. All of those jobs remain in the offline realm and it would be a big deal if they were moved online, just as it’s rightly seen as a big deal that courtship has moved online.
  - elicash 7y ago
    You'd be surprised by how many service jobs use the internet all day as part of their jobs. I can't speak as much to manual labor, but imagine it's similar to service work in which while not in front of a desktop computer they're using online technology. We can't just say that people with a physical keyboard are the only ones working online. You specifically mention restaurant work, but it's pretty common to see iPads and online computer systems used for payments. And hairdressing? The first thing I do when I get a haircut is go to the front desk where the person checks me in via a computer -- and others make appointments... online. We are not part of some elite class of people who use the internet. One of the things you'll notice about this study is that it doesn't consider all SORTS of "online" ways of meeting people online to be "online dating." That's a clue that the term has lost all meaning.
TallGuyShort 7y ago
This is the abstract: > We present data from a nationally representative 2017 survey of American adults. For heterosexual couples in the United States, meeting online has become the most popular way couples meet, eclipsing meeting through friends for the first time around 2013. Moreover, among the couples who meet online, the proportion who have met through the mediation of third persons has declined over time. We find that Internet meeting is displacing the roles that family and friends once played in bringing couples together. I haven't looked at the underlying data (but its publicly available - yay!), but it does sound from the abstract and the dataset's website like the author may be (and the article definitely moreso) reading into the fact that it's online too much, and not really looking into the actual dynamics of the ways people interact online. They mention "mediation" by friends, but it's not clear to me if one or both of (1) meeting at an event hosted by a mutual friend and (2) being exposed to each other because of a mutual online friend are considered "mediation" by the friend. I know a lot of couples have first interacted because they were friends-of-friends (i.e. sliding into the Instagram DMs), but there was no active mediation (i.e. setting up) from the friend. It's all passive. Other than the fact that more socialization is done online in general, those situations aren't that different with respect to how important the friend is. The article then mentions "algorithms", which I think is a bit generous considering how popular the apps are that don't match you up based on much more than gender preferences and location. Instead, you just go for volume online and evaluate the match in-person or through subsequent chat. It seems like match-making algorithms have decreased in perceived importance as online dating has matured. e-Harmony used to push it big time, but it seems like the Tinders of the world absolutely dominate now.
- Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
  If you're quoting something, prefix the line with a > symbol rather than 4 spaces. Quoting with 4 spaces is intended for entering code, and it messes up formatting if the line is long.
farnsworth 7y ago
I can't really imagine another way to date. People want to go about their day and get groceries without being hit on. People want to go to meetups without being hit on. Nobody wants to play matchmaker for two friends then be stuck in the middle when it doesn't work out. Online dating gives you a way to explicitly opt in to "I want to meet you romantically" and lets you meet people who you would otherwise have absolutely no way to encounter.
- notus 7y ago
  I think it is a definite improvement over how it used to be which was either just hit on everyone/be hit on by everyone or go to a lot of social functions and acquire friendships that might blossom into something else more naturally. I have more of a dislike for the former approach than the latter.
- gbjw 7y ago
  What's wrong with being hit on (assuming that it's not sexual harrassment)? What's wrong with taking a risk and setting up two friends? Why do we have to segment all life into easy-to-classify pockets of time: 'work', 'dating', 'getting groceries'? Does this not remove some element of spontaneity and joie-de-vivre that makes life thrilling and make one feel human (and not a finite state machine)? While I think the dating apps can certainly facilitate the meeting of two people who otherwise would never meet, I worry about this general attitude.
  - inetknght 7y ago
    > What's wrong with being hit on (assuming that its not sexual harrassment)? There are a great number of rotten people who "cast a wide net". When there's a large number of nets being cast, you start to drown in the sea unable to spot the difference between someone genuinely interested in a relationship and someone who's just sexually harassing you.
    - 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
      It is hard to imagine what it feels like to be hit on all the time, even if it is sometimes wanted.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
I'm sure it is, but I can't help but feel that that's mostly because more traditional ways to meet people have basically evaporated due to social and economic forces. Personally, I found online dating such a tedious affair that I decided I'd rather be alone.
ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
Attractive people don’t need to date online. Attractive women, in particular. Most popular way is still thru friends.
- progval 7y ago
  > Most popular way is still thru friends. Do you have a recent study to back this claim?
  - seem_2211 7y ago
    I think this an example where a study is going to give you extremely lopsided results.
  - ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
    No, I’m just saying what I think; what rings true to me based on my experience and observations. Pretty women get thousands of messages online. It’s overwhelming, and they always have men trying to date them in real life and social media. No need to get online. Bars downtown with their girls is more than enough, if it even has to come down to that. Friends of friends just means parties.
- obviuosly 7y ago
  I don't think this is true. Attractive people in particular have a massive amount of opportunities in online dating which is a huge incentive for them.
  - ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
    An overwhelming amount
- baddox 7y ago
  I guess we can quibble about the definition of "attractive" and "need to date online," but I think most people who date online find that there are other people who are dating online who are attractive.
obviuosly 7y ago
Note that "meeting online" includes things like social networks, games and chats, along with actual online dating. In 2017, 39% of new couples met met online. Online dating itself only accounted for about 24% of all new couples. https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1149701645070155776 https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1149701645070155776
40acres 7y ago
Personally, using apps diluted the spark of dating for me so I stopped using them. The most intense part of "mating" for me are the initial stages of attraction, trying to suss out whether or not the opposite party is attracted to you and reading the signs, that and flirting can generate a great high because there is such risk. At the end of the day once the app sets you up you'll have to flirt anyway to generate attraction -- but if you've ever had a spontaneous flirtatious interaction with someone you're attracted to you know what I mean.
- metalliqaz 7y ago
  As an introvert who grew up with crippling social anxiety, I have no idea what you're talking about.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - wendyshu 7y ago
    Social skills can be improved, at least in many people. I learned slowly but eventually I mostly caught up.
    - mkr-hn 7y ago
      Introversion is not a lack of social skills. Introversion is an inclination toward solitude. Social anxiety is its own thing and says nothing about social skills. Even great socializers often have social anxiety.
      - wendyshu 7y ago
        Fair enough but there's a positive correlation.
      - dooglius 7y ago
        You're giving the scientific definition, not the way the term is commonly used.
deleted 7y ago
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seem_2211 7y ago
I've met my last two girlfriends online. Both were ok, but ultimately didn't last (the relationships lasted 3 & 6 months respectively). And the dates that didn't turn into anything (of which I went on ~10 or so) were really average. On reflection, the social aspect of meeting people through friends really helps solve a lot of future relationship problems (you have things in common, some level of shared values etc). In my view online dating is brutal for all. As a guy you are constantly swiping and sending out a lot of messages with a very low conversion rate (I'd be surprised if 1% of all swipes turn into a date). If you go on things like /r/tinder there are lots of guys who complain about being on the platform for months or years and not having a single match. As a woman you're often dealing with hundreds and hundreds of matches. Everyone has to run a massive pipeline which means things end up being very transactional if you aren't careful. Because there's so much competition things that wouldn't necessarily matter all that much end up being huge deal breakers (say for example height, or niche preferences). I'm off the apps, at least for the moment, and am focusing on meeting people in the real world.
- stormbrew 7y ago
  I mean, meeting people online isn't really an alternative to meeting people through friends. If that avenue is open to you already, it's probably one you're already gonna be exploring. It's an alternative to meeting people through bars and clubs. That's what it's got to be better than (and almost certainly is on a bunch of different metrics).
  - 52358 7y ago
    it will be interesting to see what happens once facebook dating goes live, since that's sort of meeting people online through friends
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  My success on Tinder was fairly low despite investing a lot of time and money and was causing endless frustration so I stopped using it after realizing it's stupid to put the chances of passing on my genes in the hands on an algorithm that's incentivized to make money off my struggle by intentionally withholding matches until I pay them money(Tinder Gold) or not showing my profile to any women at all until...I pay them more money(Boosts). So I started learning Game to meet women IRL instead and despite being a short, average looking introvert, got better results with little effort other than being confident, going out and saying Hi and now I'm in a happy relationship with a very attractive woman. Made me think that probably due to evolutionary reasons there's still a large number of females who value an average looking confident male who can flirt IRL over online profiles of potentially more attractive males.
tryitnow 7y ago
I am skeptical. >I was surprised at how much online dating has displaced the help of friends in meeting a romantic partner. Our previous thinking was that the role of friends in dating would never be displaced. But it seems like online dating is displacing it. Hmmm. In my experience friends are still pretty heavily involved (assuming one has friends). They're just not involved in the discover process, but they're definitely involved in the filtering process, perhaps moreso now. So it seems like online dating has mostly just replaced the discovery process - how do you find people to meet. This is probably a good thing. But once you've met a person I still think your friends provide feedback that may determine whether you see that person again.
rainhacker 7y ago
> I think that internet dating is a modest positive addition to our world. It is generating interaction between people that we otherwise wouldn’t have. People who have in the past had trouble finding a potential partner benefit the most from the broader choice set provided by the dating apps. I feel online dating is skewed in favor of users who are in top x% attraction level. The return on time spent is poor if you are not very attractive. Moreover, I think it's difficult to switch it off completely. It's harder to commit, invest time and effort to build a strong relationship even when things are not going smooth - when there is endless potential of finding someone better/more beautiful/taller/richer etc. just a few swipes away.
- stygiansonic 7y ago
  Dating in general is skewed towards more attractive people, whether online or not, wouldn’t you agree?
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - rainhacker 7y ago
    Yes. What I meant was, I think the skew towards more attractive people is higher when it comes to online dating. Offline, people may know each other from work, mutual friends etc for some time before they actually start dating (not including speed/blind dating). In my experience, getting to know someone in person first and having a sense of comfort and security makes the physical attractiveness aspect somewhat less important.
    - thekyle 7y ago
      I second this. In particular with something like Tinder, the only thing that matters is attractiveness. There is no place on Tinder to put details like hobbies, interests, etc. it is just a giant game of hot-or-not. Other sites like OkCupid are better in that respect.
convivialdingo 7y ago
If that’s the case then I’m doomed to real-world dating. Apparently I need to hire a photographer and a social media coordinator, because otherwise I absolutely stink at flirting online. Other issue is that I like intellectuals and smarter crowds. My experiences online have been rather unlucky in this area.
- jnwatson 7y ago
  You’re not far off about the photographer. A friend recently introduced me to a new dating app. Every picture looked like it was taken by a professional travel photographer (with the candidate somewhere in the scene).
VladimirIvanov 7y ago
I recently had a bizare experience. My girlfriend that I met in college and was dating for 4 years broke up with me and a week later I saw her profile on Bumble. It was definitely very upsetting. Women have a lot more power with online dating and can essentially meet someone at anytime if they are good looking. I don't doubt that she has dozens or even hundreds of messages from guys. I don't have many high quality pictures and I don't do very well. In online dating it's definitely true that a small percentage of men (say 20%) has sex and the opportunity for a relationship with the majority of women (say 80%). So I guess I will be single for awhile
- ikeyany 7y ago
  Better to be single than with someone who would throw away a serious relationship for some flings. At the very least be thankful she had the decency to end things with you first.
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    You’re subtly insinuating that the woman was being shallow or petty, when in fact, she could have just not wanted to move forward with the relationship.
    - ikeyany 7y ago
      Weird, I thought I was overtly insinuating that. It did happen the week after a 4+ year serious relationship ended, after all.
      - b_tterc_p 7y ago
        Why do you believe that the woman owes the man anything after ending the relationship? A woman is not obligated to feel emotionally conservative just because her former partner does.
  - blub 7y ago
    People don't just switch off after four years. It's pretty likely that the relationship was dead for a while from her perspective. It's just that OP was blind to the signs.
b_tterc_p 7y ago
I don’t have any way of comparing this beyond anecdotally but... I’ve dated one only person and for many years. I’ve never had the chance or reason to use online dating. But I feel like most of my friends who do enter committed relationships from online dating don’t seem to trust each other very much even after a significant chunk of time and it seems weird to me. Curious if this resonates.
jammygit 7y ago
Years ago I met my wife online. Now, I wonder which companies have bought our messaging histories... and when a breach will release those and any other content I posted back then.
yumario 7y ago
I would advice most people to stay away from online dating. Especially if you social anxiety or low self esteem. Why would you place the chances of finding love in the hands of a corporation? In the case of tinder here is why: After I sign up tinder I started getting constant ads. These ads have followed me for months, to this day. Here is the most recent example: https://imgur.com/a/IJFCG0m https://imgur.com/a/IJFCG0m. Most dating apps are owned by a single company Match group. They own for example: BlackPeopleMeet.com, Chemistry.com, Delightful, FriendScout24, HowAboutWe, Match.com, Meetic Group, OkCupid, OurTime, People Media, PlentyOfFish, Tinder, Twoo, Hinge. In fact, tinder's delete account button is very conveniently placed. They don't care if you delete your account... as long as they can shuffle users around. The match group itself is owned by an even bigger corporation IAC. It owns about 150 brands worldwide. For example: TripAdvisor, Expedia, Ask.com, The Daily Beast, About.com, Dictionary.com, Investopedia, among many others. I have a hard time believing that Tinder have any incentives to make you find date. Why would they do that? You will quit the app and they will stop making money! I believe they use a lot of dark pattern to try to sell stuff. Here in an example: https://i.redd.it/e13yeek795x21.jpg https://i.redd.it/e13yeek795x21.jpg. When I used tinder they keep the notification "there is someone that like" but they would actually show me the person. Another example of the dark patterns: https://i.redd.it/r0lheira9rh31.jpg https://i.redd.it/r0lheira9rh31.jpg. They also shadow-ban users among many other things.
- yumario 7y ago
  --I meant they would not* show me the person, so the notification persisted. Pushing people towards paying and unblocking their likes.
deleted 7y ago
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matthewheath 7y ago
As a gay man, meeting other men online is the only way I can. :-( There don’t seem to be many appropriate dating spaces for the LGBTQ+ community in the physical world... maybe it’s just a fact of being in your mid twenties during a time of great change, but I wish there were spaces that didn’t necessitate drinking, where you could meet people in this arena. Overall, online dating makes me quite sad. It’s very easy to judge and dismiss someone online based on a few lines of text and some photographs. That’s probably why I’m still single. Nobody’s interested in my profile or photos. It’s hard to stand out in such a competitive arena; I’d prefer to get to know people in the flesh.
- echopom 7y ago
  >There don’t seem to be many appropriate dating spaces for the LGBTQ+ community in the physical world... >I wish there were spaces that didn’t necessitate drinking, where you could meet people in this arena. Not sure to understand clearly. Honestly you can go a to a bar and order a Dr.Pepper there is nothing that's going to stop you from doing that... I'm not sure to understand entirely there are many gay bars / nightclubs everywhere I'm sure most of them are appropriate spaces to flirt or engage with other people...
  - matthewheath 7y ago
    Ah, my apologies. I should’ve spent a bit more time composing my original comment before posting. This comment is solely about my experiences: I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone. In my experience, I go to a gay bar or a nightclub and, well, it feels like they don’t want to flirt or get to know me, they just want sex. That’s what I meant about “appropriate” spaces —- somewhere that isn’t going to be overly sexualised to my detriment. I look around and I don’t see anywhere I can start a conversation without someone who’s behaviour (eg entitlement to have sex, or drunkenness, or harassing me, or potential violence, etc.) would negatively impact on me being in that space. That includes being harassed by straight people in these spaces. Hen parties who want a “gay BFF”, homophobes (because a small minority are increasingly vocal about their opposition and will act on it), etc. which make me reluctant to go to these spaces right now. Are there solutions to these problems? Of course, but it feels a lot harder to implement them than it would if I weren’t gay. From my point of view, the social structures we’ve established as a civilisation aren’t quite equal (e.g. I can’t just go up to someone at the supermarket and flirt with them without potentially risking violence) and that’s what saddens me the most. I don’t know if you’re LGBTQ+, but if you’re not, the pressures and challenges the LGBTQ+ community face in this area are distinct from the heterosexual dating community. So, yes, online dating—-for me—-is the safest way to meet other men, even though I would prefer that the real life spaces were safer and more accommodating.
yeuxverte 7y ago
I'm a bit on the younger side (23) but I've used online dating almost exclusively for finding partners over the past 2 years. Being a bit of a numbers freak, I downloaded a copy of all my data from Tinder and made a Sankey diagram with it and it ended up being pretty cool to look at: https://imgur.com/a/ueNmDlZ https://imgur.com/a/ueNmDlZ
jdkee 7y ago
My wife was introduced by a mutual friend in 2000. Married 4 years later. The year before I had tried dating websites such as Match and they were atrocious. Fake profiles, delayed email responses, bad dates based on what the programmers thought would ideally "match" people up. I imagine the smartphone and dating or hookup apps are so much more sophisticated today. Or maybe I dodged a technological bullet?
- btgeekboy 7y ago
  Times have changed. They're not necessarily more sophisticated (at least not visibly, algorithms not withstanding), but the stigma of online dating isn't nearly what it was. In 2000, as a man in search of a woman, your chances of actually finding a legitimate mate were way lower than they are now. Sure, there's still some catfishing/fake profiles out there, but they're relatively easy to flush out, and there are many real women out there. In other words, the user pool itself has changed.
aluren 7y ago
That's awful to be honest. I don't have anything against online dating in principle, though I do find it pretty weird, but there's got to be a better way than relying on obscure matchmaking algorithms, shitty apps optimizing for engagement and your being single (remember, if you're not single you're not using the app), run by shady companies harvesting all of your data. Americans will always surprise me in their ability to surrender every single aspect of their life to megacorporations, even the most intimate and personal ones.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  I wish I could upvote you to the top. HNers are quick to sh*t on Microsoft, Google and all for telemetry but will gladly give all their most intimate info to these shady dating companies with no concerns for privacy.

126 points by t23 7y ago

zzzcarrot 7y ago

What site do you find the best for online dating?

Johnny555 7y ago
It's been a while since I've been online dating (almost a decade), but the best site I found was not even a dating site (well, not primarily a dating site, but most people there tended to be single): https://www.meetup.com/ https://www.meetup.com/ I'd sign up for hikes and other things I was interested in and met a lot of women, dated a few. One good thing is that you'd tend to see the same people over and over, so you can get past the quick 10 second "like or not" rut that you get into with online dating, and you start to see people more for their personality. But it's a time investment, with online dating I could typically go out on one or two dates a week, while with meetup hikes, I'd maybe find someone to date every month or two of weekend hiking. Ultimately though, I found my wife on a whim through a non-dating chat service - she was living thousands of miles from me and I picked her pretty much at random (no profile, no picture, just a username, age, and gender). Took nearly a year of chatting before we even met in person.

Zhenya 7y ago

I am more interested to know whether successfully married couples are more likely to meet online than all couples. Maybe this simply demonstrates an uptick in number of relationships and less time someone is single until they find their long-term mate/partner.

ahoy 7y ago
I've been with my partner over 9 years and we aren't married. I'd consider ours a "successful" relationship.
- youeseh 7y ago
  When I was a kid, I just thought that all couples who lived together were "married". It didn't matter whether there was a ceremony, or a legal contract. They lived together, made out with each other (ew), and since they were family friends, they were also automatically uncle and auntie. Then priests and politicians decided to mess it all up.
phil248 7y ago
Given that a marriage probably can't be considered "successful" until it has lasted several decades, we may be waiting a while for that data!
youeseh 7y ago
I don't have data to back this up, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone who gets married today is more likely to meet their husband / wife online. There are a few reasons for this. - Lower risk of looking bad. Date didn't go bad? No worries.. none of your friends have to find out it was your fault. - Less pressure from family and friends to pair up with someone. They'll only find out when you're ready. - Fewer couples meet at work - there are many reasons for this, and some may even argue that this is for the better. But, this does mean that more people will meet online. - Fewer couples meet at church. There just aren't as many church goers in Western countries as before. Again, there are a few reasons for this.. but the result is that more people end up online. - People move more than ever. And it becomes more difficult to meet someone as we get older (no school to be a common connection), and one day you just want to meet your next relationship. So you get right down to business: get an online dating account. - More choices to find that perfect someone online.
- taylodl 7y ago
  Completely anecdotal but all the young couples I know getting married have all met in real life, no exceptions. It makes me suspect HN’s claim that everybody meets online today. My anecdotal experience says it’s exactly the opposite.
  - youeseh 7y ago
    That is pretty interesting! Maybe it is a generational backlash to social media accounts =). I have two pretty young friends (early 20s) - one met his significant girlfriend through other friends on a night out. The other met his girlfriend online. They're both pretty happy.
  - cableshaft 7y ago
    I have at least 4 married couples amongst my friends that met online (2 of them through World of Warcraft, though). I'm about to get married to a woman I met through online dating. I was actually trying really hard to date people in person too, I was going to tons of meetups, and getting some dates out of that, it just so happened that the woman I'm marrying ended up being someone that messaged me on an online dating app four years ago. I do know married couples that met through Meetup and other in-person methods as well, so online is definitely not everyone's only option anymore, but online is a definitely viable option.
obviuosly 7y ago
Equivalently, you can look at divorce statistics of couples that meet online vs offline. A study from 2013 suggests that the divorce rate is lower and marriage satisfaction is higher for couples meeting online, but only slightly. This seems to suggest that online dating is only marginally better than offline dating. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-online-dating-could-do-to-divorce-rates-2017-10-16 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-online-dating-could-d...
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elicash 7y ago

At some point, it's just called "dating." This is like saying I'm doing "online job seeking" because I find out about jobs online. At a certain point, that's just the default for how it's done. Similarly, I'm not "online working" because my job is done mostly online. I'm just working.

InitialLastName 7y ago
This. By the logic of calling out that this is "online", 99% of HN users are "typists" by profession.
- elicash 7y ago
  I think what the study is really talking about is "algorithmic-based" introductions. But excluding a situation where you see a friend-of-a-friend comment on Instagram and sending them a message from "online dating" just shows how useless the term has become because it's all online.
krustyburger 7y ago
I’m not sure if you’re being glib but there really is a fundamental distinction here. Meeting someone because of the workings of an algorithm on a platform both of you have signed up for is substantially different than meeting someone through mutual friends or even through happenstance. And your line of work may not be differentiated by whether or not it’s online, but that is not true of a whole host of more traditional jobs. I’m thinking not just of anything involving manual labor but also of the majority of service work, from hairdressing to restaurant service. All of those jobs remain in the offline realm and it would be a big deal if they were moved online, just as it’s rightly seen as a big deal that courtship has moved online.
- elicash 7y ago
  You'd be surprised by how many service jobs use the internet all day as part of their jobs. I can't speak as much to manual labor, but imagine it's similar to service work in which while not in front of a desktop computer they're using online technology. We can't just say that people with a physical keyboard are the only ones working online. You specifically mention restaurant work, but it's pretty common to see iPads and online computer systems used for payments. And hairdressing? The first thing I do when I get a haircut is go to the front desk where the person checks me in via a computer -- and others make appointments... online. We are not part of some elite class of people who use the internet. One of the things you'll notice about this study is that it doesn't consider all SORTS of "online" ways of meeting people online to be "online dating." That's a clue that the term has lost all meaning.

TallGuyShort 7y ago

This is the abstract: > We present data from a nationally representative 2017 survey of American adults. For heterosexual couples in the United States, meeting online has become the most popular way couples meet, eclipsing meeting through friends for the first time around 2013. Moreover, among the couples who meet online, the proportion who have met through the mediation of third persons has declined over time. We find that Internet meeting is displacing the roles that family and friends once played in bringing couples together. I haven't looked at the underlying data (but its publicly available - yay!), but it does sound from the abstract and the dataset's website like the author may be (and the article definitely moreso) reading into the fact that it's online too much, and not really looking into the actual dynamics of the ways people interact online. They mention "mediation" by friends, but it's not clear to me if one or both of (1) meeting at an event hosted by a mutual friend and (2) being exposed to each other because of a mutual online friend are considered "mediation" by the friend. I know a lot of couples have first interacted because they were friends-of-friends (i.e. sliding into the Instagram DMs), but there was no active mediation (i.e. setting up) from the friend. It's all passive. Other than the fact that more socialization is done online in general, those situations aren't that different with respect to how important the friend is. The article then mentions "algorithms", which I think is a bit generous considering how popular the apps are that don't match you up based on much more than gender preferences and location. Instead, you just go for volume online and evaluate the match in-person or through subsequent chat. It seems like match-making algorithms have decreased in perceived importance as online dating has matured. e-Harmony used to push it big time, but it seems like the Tinders of the world absolutely dominate now.

Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
If you're quoting something, prefix the line with a > symbol rather than 4 spaces. Quoting with 4 spaces is intended for entering code, and it messes up formatting if the line is long.

farnsworth 7y ago

I can't really imagine another way to date. People want to go about their day and get groceries without being hit on. People want to go to meetups without being hit on. Nobody wants to play matchmaker for two friends then be stuck in the middle when it doesn't work out. Online dating gives you a way to explicitly opt in to "I want to meet you romantically" and lets you meet people who you would otherwise have absolutely no way to encounter.

notus 7y ago
I think it is a definite improvement over how it used to be which was either just hit on everyone/be hit on by everyone or go to a lot of social functions and acquire friendships that might blossom into something else more naturally. I have more of a dislike for the former approach than the latter.
gbjw 7y ago
What's wrong with being hit on (assuming that it's not sexual harrassment)? What's wrong with taking a risk and setting up two friends? Why do we have to segment all life into easy-to-classify pockets of time: 'work', 'dating', 'getting groceries'? Does this not remove some element of spontaneity and joie-de-vivre that makes life thrilling and make one feel human (and not a finite state machine)? While I think the dating apps can certainly facilitate the meeting of two people who otherwise would never meet, I worry about this general attitude.
- inetknght 7y ago
  > What's wrong with being hit on (assuming that its not sexual harrassment)? There are a great number of rotten people who "cast a wide net". When there's a large number of nets being cast, you start to drown in the sea unable to spot the difference between someone genuinely interested in a relationship and someone who's just sexually harassing you.
  - 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
    It is hard to imagine what it feels like to be hit on all the time, even if it is sometimes wanted.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

I'm sure it is, but I can't help but feel that that's mostly because more traditional ways to meet people have basically evaporated due to social and economic forces. Personally, I found online dating such a tedious affair that I decided I'd rather be alone.

ulisesrmzroche 7y ago

Attractive people don’t need to date online. Attractive women, in particular. Most popular way is still thru friends.

progval 7y ago
> Most popular way is still thru friends. Do you have a recent study to back this claim?
- seem_2211 7y ago
  I think this an example where a study is going to give you extremely lopsided results.
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  No, I’m just saying what I think; what rings true to me based on my experience and observations. Pretty women get thousands of messages online. It’s overwhelming, and they always have men trying to date them in real life and social media. No need to get online. Bars downtown with their girls is more than enough, if it even has to come down to that. Friends of friends just means parties.
obviuosly 7y ago
I don't think this is true. Attractive people in particular have a massive amount of opportunities in online dating which is a huge incentive for them.
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  An overwhelming amount
baddox 7y ago
I guess we can quibble about the definition of "attractive" and "need to date online," but I think most people who date online find that there are other people who are dating online who are attractive.

obviuosly 7y ago

Note that "meeting online" includes things like social networks, games and chats, along with actual online dating. In 2017, 39% of new couples met met online. Online dating itself only accounted for about 24% of all new couples. https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1149701645070155776 https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1149701645070155776

40acres 7y ago

Personally, using apps diluted the spark of dating for me so I stopped using them. The most intense part of "mating" for me are the initial stages of attraction, trying to suss out whether or not the opposite party is attracted to you and reading the signs, that and flirting can generate a great high because there is such risk. At the end of the day once the app sets you up you'll have to flirt anyway to generate attraction -- but if you've ever had a spontaneous flirtatious interaction with someone you're attracted to you know what I mean.

metalliqaz 7y ago
As an introvert who grew up with crippling social anxiety, I have no idea what you're talking about.
- deleted 7y ago
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- wendyshu 7y ago
  Social skills can be improved, at least in many people. I learned slowly but eventually I mostly caught up.
  - mkr-hn 7y ago
    Introversion is not a lack of social skills. Introversion is an inclination toward solitude. Social anxiety is its own thing and says nothing about social skills. Even great socializers often have social anxiety.
    - wendyshu 7y ago
      Fair enough but there's a positive correlation.
    - dooglius 7y ago
      You're giving the scientific definition, not the way the term is commonly used.

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seem_2211 7y ago

I've met my last two girlfriends online. Both were ok, but ultimately didn't last (the relationships lasted 3 & 6 months respectively). And the dates that didn't turn into anything (of which I went on ~10 or so) were really average. On reflection, the social aspect of meeting people through friends really helps solve a lot of future relationship problems (you have things in common, some level of shared values etc). In my view online dating is brutal for all. As a guy you are constantly swiping and sending out a lot of messages with a very low conversion rate (I'd be surprised if 1% of all swipes turn into a date). If you go on things like /r/tinder there are lots of guys who complain about being on the platform for months or years and not having a single match. As a woman you're often dealing with hundreds and hundreds of matches. Everyone has to run a massive pipeline which means things end up being very transactional if you aren't careful. Because there's so much competition things that wouldn't necessarily matter all that much end up being huge deal breakers (say for example height, or niche preferences). I'm off the apps, at least for the moment, and am focusing on meeting people in the real world.

stormbrew 7y ago
I mean, meeting people online isn't really an alternative to meeting people through friends. If that avenue is open to you already, it's probably one you're already gonna be exploring. It's an alternative to meeting people through bars and clubs. That's what it's got to be better than (and almost certainly is on a bunch of different metrics).
- 52358 7y ago
  it will be interesting to see what happens once facebook dating goes live, since that's sort of meeting people online through friends
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
My success on Tinder was fairly low despite investing a lot of time and money and was causing endless frustration so I stopped using it after realizing it's stupid to put the chances of passing on my genes in the hands on an algorithm that's incentivized to make money off my struggle by intentionally withholding matches until I pay them money(Tinder Gold) or not showing my profile to any women at all until...I pay them more money(Boosts). So I started learning Game to meet women IRL instead and despite being a short, average looking introvert, got better results with little effort other than being confident, going out and saying Hi and now I'm in a happy relationship with a very attractive woman. Made me think that probably due to evolutionary reasons there's still a large number of females who value an average looking confident male who can flirt IRL over online profiles of potentially more attractive males.

tryitnow 7y ago

I am skeptical. >I was surprised at how much online dating has displaced the help of friends in meeting a romantic partner. Our previous thinking was that the role of friends in dating would never be displaced. But it seems like online dating is displacing it. Hmmm. In my experience friends are still pretty heavily involved (assuming one has friends). They're just not involved in the discover process, but they're definitely involved in the filtering process, perhaps moreso now. So it seems like online dating has mostly just replaced the discovery process - how do you find people to meet. This is probably a good thing. But once you've met a person I still think your friends provide feedback that may determine whether you see that person again.

rainhacker 7y ago

> I think that internet dating is a modest positive addition to our world. It is generating interaction between people that we otherwise wouldn’t have. People who have in the past had trouble finding a potential partner benefit the most from the broader choice set provided by the dating apps. I feel online dating is skewed in favor of users who are in top x% attraction level. The return on time spent is poor if you are not very attractive. Moreover, I think it's difficult to switch it off completely. It's harder to commit, invest time and effort to build a strong relationship even when things are not going smooth - when there is endless potential of finding someone better/more beautiful/taller/richer etc. just a few swipes away.

stygiansonic 7y ago
Dating in general is skewed towards more attractive people, whether online or not, wouldn’t you agree?
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- rainhacker 7y ago
  Yes. What I meant was, I think the skew towards more attractive people is higher when it comes to online dating. Offline, people may know each other from work, mutual friends etc for some time before they actually start dating (not including speed/blind dating). In my experience, getting to know someone in person first and having a sense of comfort and security makes the physical attractiveness aspect somewhat less important.
  - thekyle 7y ago
    I second this. In particular with something like Tinder, the only thing that matters is attractiveness. There is no place on Tinder to put details like hobbies, interests, etc. it is just a giant game of hot-or-not. Other sites like OkCupid are better in that respect.

convivialdingo 7y ago

If that’s the case then I’m doomed to real-world dating. Apparently I need to hire a photographer and a social media coordinator, because otherwise I absolutely stink at flirting online. Other issue is that I like intellectuals and smarter crowds. My experiences online have been rather unlucky in this area.

jnwatson 7y ago
You’re not far off about the photographer. A friend recently introduced me to a new dating app. Every picture looked like it was taken by a professional travel photographer (with the candidate somewhere in the scene).

VladimirIvanov 7y ago

I recently had a bizare experience. My girlfriend that I met in college and was dating for 4 years broke up with me and a week later I saw her profile on Bumble. It was definitely very upsetting. Women have a lot more power with online dating and can essentially meet someone at anytime if they are good looking. I don't doubt that she has dozens or even hundreds of messages from guys. I don't have many high quality pictures and I don't do very well. In online dating it's definitely true that a small percentage of men (say 20%) has sex and the opportunity for a relationship with the majority of women (say 80%). So I guess I will be single for awhile

ikeyany 7y ago
Better to be single than with someone who would throw away a serious relationship for some flings. At the very least be thankful she had the decency to end things with you first.
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  You’re subtly insinuating that the woman was being shallow or petty, when in fact, she could have just not wanted to move forward with the relationship.
  - ikeyany 7y ago
    Weird, I thought I was overtly insinuating that. It did happen the week after a 4+ year serious relationship ended, after all.
    - b_tterc_p 7y ago
      Why do you believe that the woman owes the man anything after ending the relationship? A woman is not obligated to feel emotionally conservative just because her former partner does.
- blub 7y ago
  People don't just switch off after four years. It's pretty likely that the relationship was dead for a while from her perspective. It's just that OP was blind to the signs.

b_tterc_p 7y ago

I don’t have any way of comparing this beyond anecdotally but... I’ve dated one only person and for many years. I’ve never had the chance or reason to use online dating. But I feel like most of my friends who do enter committed relationships from online dating don’t seem to trust each other very much even after a significant chunk of time and it seems weird to me. Curious if this resonates.

jammygit 7y ago

Years ago I met my wife online. Now, I wonder which companies have bought our messaging histories... and when a breach will release those and any other content I posted back then.

yumario 7y ago

I would advice most people to stay away from online dating. Especially if you social anxiety or low self esteem. Why would you place the chances of finding love in the hands of a corporation? In the case of tinder here is why: After I sign up tinder I started getting constant ads. These ads have followed me for months, to this day. Here is the most recent example: https://imgur.com/a/IJFCG0m https://imgur.com/a/IJFCG0m. Most dating apps are owned by a single company Match group. They own for example: BlackPeopleMeet.com, Chemistry.com, Delightful, FriendScout24, HowAboutWe, Match.com, Meetic Group, OkCupid, OurTime, People Media, PlentyOfFish, Tinder, Twoo, Hinge. In fact, tinder's delete account button is very conveniently placed. They don't care if you delete your account... as long as they can shuffle users around. The match group itself is owned by an even bigger corporation IAC. It owns about 150 brands worldwide. For example: TripAdvisor, Expedia, Ask.com, The Daily Beast, About.com, Dictionary.com, Investopedia, among many others. I have a hard time believing that Tinder have any incentives to make you find date. Why would they do that? You will quit the app and they will stop making money! I believe they use a lot of dark pattern to try to sell stuff. Here in an example: https://i.redd.it/e13yeek795x21.jpg https://i.redd.it/e13yeek795x21.jpg. When I used tinder they keep the notification "there is someone that like" but they would actually show me the person. Another example of the dark patterns: https://i.redd.it/r0lheira9rh31.jpg https://i.redd.it/r0lheira9rh31.jpg. They also shadow-ban users among many other things.

yumario 7y ago
--I meant they would not* show me the person, so the notification persisted. Pushing people towards paying and unblocking their likes.

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matthewheath 7y ago

As a gay man, meeting other men online is the only way I can. :-( There don’t seem to be many appropriate dating spaces for the LGBTQ+ community in the physical world... maybe it’s just a fact of being in your mid twenties during a time of great change, but I wish there were spaces that didn’t necessitate drinking, where you could meet people in this arena. Overall, online dating makes me quite sad. It’s very easy to judge and dismiss someone online based on a few lines of text and some photographs. That’s probably why I’m still single. Nobody’s interested in my profile or photos. It’s hard to stand out in such a competitive arena; I’d prefer to get to know people in the flesh.

echopom 7y ago
>There don’t seem to be many appropriate dating spaces for the LGBTQ+ community in the physical world... >I wish there were spaces that didn’t necessitate drinking, where you could meet people in this arena. Not sure to understand clearly. Honestly you can go a to a bar and order a Dr.Pepper there is nothing that's going to stop you from doing that... I'm not sure to understand entirely there are many gay bars / nightclubs everywhere I'm sure most of them are appropriate spaces to flirt or engage with other people...
- matthewheath 7y ago
  Ah, my apologies. I should’ve spent a bit more time composing my original comment before posting. This comment is solely about my experiences: I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone. In my experience, I go to a gay bar or a nightclub and, well, it feels like they don’t want to flirt or get to know me, they just want sex. That’s what I meant about “appropriate” spaces —- somewhere that isn’t going to be overly sexualised to my detriment. I look around and I don’t see anywhere I can start a conversation without someone who’s behaviour (eg entitlement to have sex, or drunkenness, or harassing me, or potential violence, etc.) would negatively impact on me being in that space. That includes being harassed by straight people in these spaces. Hen parties who want a “gay BFF”, homophobes (because a small minority are increasingly vocal about their opposition and will act on it), etc. which make me reluctant to go to these spaces right now. Are there solutions to these problems? Of course, but it feels a lot harder to implement them than it would if I weren’t gay. From my point of view, the social structures we’ve established as a civilisation aren’t quite equal (e.g. I can’t just go up to someone at the supermarket and flirt with them without potentially risking violence) and that’s what saddens me the most. I don’t know if you’re LGBTQ+, but if you’re not, the pressures and challenges the LGBTQ+ community face in this area are distinct from the heterosexual dating community. So, yes, online dating—-for me—-is the safest way to meet other men, even though I would prefer that the real life spaces were safer and more accommodating.

yeuxverte 7y ago

I'm a bit on the younger side (23) but I've used online dating almost exclusively for finding partners over the past 2 years. Being a bit of a numbers freak, I downloaded a copy of all my data from Tinder and made a Sankey diagram with it and it ended up being pretty cool to look at: https://imgur.com/a/ueNmDlZ https://imgur.com/a/ueNmDlZ

jdkee 7y ago

My wife was introduced by a mutual friend in 2000. Married 4 years later. The year before I had tried dating websites such as Match and they were atrocious. Fake profiles, delayed email responses, bad dates based on what the programmers thought would ideally "match" people up. I imagine the smartphone and dating or hookup apps are so much more sophisticated today. Or maybe I dodged a technological bullet?

btgeekboy 7y ago
Times have changed. They're not necessarily more sophisticated (at least not visibly, algorithms not withstanding), but the stigma of online dating isn't nearly what it was. In 2000, as a man in search of a woman, your chances of actually finding a legitimate mate were way lower than they are now. Sure, there's still some catfishing/fake profiles out there, but they're relatively easy to flush out, and there are many real women out there. In other words, the user pool itself has changed.

aluren 7y ago

That's awful to be honest. I don't have anything against online dating in principle, though I do find it pretty weird, but there's got to be a better way than relying on obscure matchmaking algorithms, shitty apps optimizing for engagement and your being single (remember, if you're not single you're not using the app), run by shady companies harvesting all of your data. Americans will always surprise me in their ability to surrender every single aspect of their life to megacorporations, even the most intimate and personal ones.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
I wish I could upvote you to the top. HNers are quick to sh*t on Microsoft, Google and all for telemetry but will gladly give all their most intimate info to these shady dating companies with no concerns for privacy.