9 ms·

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public serv

by dymk 7y ago

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail those who attack members of the public. Just a few weeks ago we released a known violent repeat offender who four days later tossed a hot coffee on an infant. Up in Ballard we released a guy who then chased people down with a pitchfork. Another is intent on assaulting the new Park Couriers who's job it is to keep people from open-using heroin in our public parks. There's a guy down at an I-5 onramp in downtown who keeps trying to throw small women off the overpass. He keeps failing at doing so, and the cops say "Can't do anything, he hasn't actually thrown somebody off". I guess we'll just wait until he succeeds. Oh well. I guess we'll just keep pointing these people towards social services, which they'll refuse again, lock them up for some token amount of time, and wait for them to harm the public again.

trentnix 7y ago
Often reality doesn’t fit the narrative, comrade.
- dang 7y ago
  Maybe not, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
taurath 7y ago
Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.
- allana 7y ago
  They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most-dangerous-neighborhood-by-magnolia/ http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...
  - ChuckMcM 7y ago
    I like The Needling's tag line, Seattle's only Real Fake News.
    - allana 7y ago
      They produce some great articles :3
  - sukilot 7y ago
    > is such an issue The needling is also not working from data...
    - ndarwincorn 7y ago
      The article is satirizing sentiment reflected in data gathered by Seattle U and reported on by the Seattle Times[1]. This was linked in that Needling article. [1] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/mean-world-syndrome-in-some-seattle-neighborhoods-fear-of-crime-exceeds-reality/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/mean-world-sy...
  - pnw_hazor 7y ago
    The Seattle police hardly show up anymore unless there is an active shooter. No arrest, no statistics. When they do arrest someone, the city and county prosecutors often refuse to press charges. No charge, no statistics.
- tjr225 7y ago
  Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer. And I live in the Central District, which is one of the more violent neighborhoods.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    It wasn’t this bad in the 90s or 80s, when crime was higher everywhere else. Relatively speaking, Seattle is worse off than it was before, which is a bit sad for the non transplants.
    - throwawaysea 7y ago
      Exactly this. Transplants are part of the problem though - they’ve brought their political culture/voting habits/policies with them, and are ruining a formerly effectively managed city without asking why it was attractive to move here in the first place.
      - ndarwincorn 7y ago
        Please go ask the lifers at the May Day riots how they feel about the effective management of the city before all these darn transplants showed up.
    - taurath 7y ago
      Every stat on violent crime I’ve seen is that the 80s were a peak tho?
      - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
        The homeless problem wasn’t as large in the 80s, violent crime was maybe higher, but property crime seems to have been lower. I worked at 3rd and pine McDonald’s in 94-95 (one of the main hangouts for Seattle’s homeless population back then), and downtown was a lot more sane back then. The policing was much more aggressive than it is today, which I think had a large part to do with that.
- dymk 7y ago
  Do you need statistics to tell you that it's wrong to not prosecute violent repeat offenders?
  - taurath 7y ago
    Gimme the details then? How did it happen? What was the justification if any? Did it actually happen?
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      From another comment: https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-attempted-to-throw-woman-off-I-5-13701108.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att...
vkou 7y ago
What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)
- dymk 7y ago
  Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and a really weird dichotomy to boot. I said that these violent addicts are refusing offered social services, yet we let them walk around and continue to harm the public.
  - vkou 7y ago
    > Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, No, it's not. What you said, in response to the article was: > I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. The implication here is that redirecting non-violent addicts off the addiction --> prison pipeline was a policy mistake. I ask why you think that non-violent addicts should be put into prison. You tell me I'm grossly misrepresenting your point of view. Which point of view do you actually hold? Do you think that non-violent addicts should be provided with help, or prison? Pick one, and own it. I don't care one whit about your opinions on violent people in public spaces. I doubt they differ from mine, and it's not an interesting conversation.
    - timdev2 7y ago
      You replied to a post complaining that the policy also seemed to be giving violent individuals a pass, and accused them of "think[ing] that non-violent addicts should be put into prison". Which was neither said nor (as you claim) implied. The comment was explicitly bemoaning a perceived plague of "repeat violent drug addicts"
      - vkou 7y ago
        The policy being shilled by the article in question is about non-violent addicts. Whatever problems the commenter in question has with violent criminals has absolutely nothing to do with it - but they chose to attack the non-violent policy (And then get defensive about how their points are being misconstrued. What are those points, then? Violent crime is bad, and should be dealt with? I don't think anyone disagrees with that one. What does it have to do with a diversion of non-violent addicts?) It's like complaining that standards on organically-grown produce aren't preventing contaminated meat from ending up at your grocery store. Whatever problems you have with contaminated meat have nothing to do with the produce policy.
paggle 7y ago
Just looked up the hot coffee case. It could only happen in a city with strict gun laws. In Texas someone would have enacted his sheriff fantasies on this perpetrator a long time ago.
- grogenaut 7y ago
  Seattle, part of Washington, actually has concealed carry as legal. There is no duty to retreat either, no real different than any "gun friendly" state. So your point is invalid. Anyone can have loaded carry pistol, this shows you to be pointless in this example. I assume you're just trying to troll and failing badly.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Yes, but Seattle being Seattle it is not populated by the kind of people who will pack heat. That's like saying "well Austin is part of Texas so why doesn't everyone wear a cowboy hat and go hog hunting on the weekend." Both those cities are basically San Fransisco demographically speaking. And just because concealed carry legal doesn't mean the process is constructed in such a way that normal people can actually do it (see CA, MA, NYC and NJ for examples of this) though I'm not sure about Seattle specifically.
    - itsyaboi 7y ago
      Isn't Washington a open carry state?
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        Probably. IIRC most states are. Pretty much nobody who isn't a security guard or armored car employee who's actively working open carries not on their own property in any state.
      - dymk 7y ago
        Doesn’t really mean much when open carrying immediately results in the police showing up/inciting panic.
mieseratte 7y ago
> He keeps failing at doing so, and the cops say "Can't do anything, he hasn't actually thrown somebody off". How does that play out such that they can't get him on some type of assault / harassment? Is he politely asking these women if they would like to be thrown off the overpass and politely walking off when they demur?
- dymk 7y ago
  Oh sorry, they actually can do something; in fact they've caught-and-released this guy three times before finally saying "Maybe he is dangerous": https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-attempted-to-throw-woman-off-I-5-13701108.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att... But I'm not holding my breath for them to actually put him away, given their past decisions to not separate him from the public.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    From that article: > Charges for the first three assaults were dismissed by the City of Seattle because of mental health concerns, prosecutors said in the charging papers. Jesus, WTF? If he is attacking people because of mental illness, why isn't he locked up in a mental hospital? "Sorry, you attacked people but you're crazy, so have a nice day!" And why is trying to throw someone off an overpass charged with assault and not with attempted murder?
    - Miner49er 7y ago
      I don't think they have any mental hospitals to put him in. Locking people up in mental hospitals isn't much of a thing anymore.
      - mieseratte 7y ago
        Does Seattle / Washington not have anything? I live in one of those "poor Red states", and we absolutely do. I know a few folks who have been forcefully committed, though the common denominator seemed self-harm as opposed to harming passerby. Seems very odd Wilson managed to dodge both mental facilities and prisons.
notus 7y ago
Solving community problems come with community sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of housing first, drug rehab second. It is exponentially harder to get clean without housing and a support network. Decriminalizing drug addiction is a good step in that direction IMO. I think another side of this coin though is we need to bring back institutionalization of mental health care. Implemented today it would be vastly different from the 80's and before because our understanding of therapy has gone from stirring up and injecting memories into people to cognitive behavioral therapy which is very much a feel good form of therapy. I question your statement about the guy on the 1-5 ramp attempting to throw small women off the overpass. How is attempted defined here? Does he grab them? If so he would definitely be arrested for battery charges. I get the impression he is probably chasing them and saying he is going to do it. That seems like a legitimate reason to get someone mental health help but not a legitimate reason to incarcerate someone. As long as we have this gaping hole in our system that just ignores mental health problems or tries to categorize them as criminal we will continue to have this problem. Source on housing first being effective: https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.94.4.651 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.94.4...
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  Housing first is effective for people who want our idea of a 'normal lifestyle' I think people in this thread are asking you to question your assumption- do you think every drug addict on the west coast wants to hold down a job and live our normal life?
  - Miner49er 7y ago
    Why are you assuming that giving a person a house means they have to have a normal life? Can't they live in the house and continue not to have a job and continue living a non-normal life and get clean too?
  - notus 7y ago
    People don't want to be drug addicts and live a poor existence to feed a habit. They have problems, they use the drugs to medicate or fit in, the problems compound with drug use, so they use more to deal with the problems more. They are also ostracized by communities which nobody likes as we are social creatures. The level of that social exclusion probably depends a lot on their current level of wealth. People like having shelter and their physical needs met and while they might not necessarily want normal either, I'd argue a big part of that is more that they have poor coping strategies and don't now how to cope with normal. There will always be people who don't fall into certain strategies for combating homelessness and drug addiction, but this is a much better approach than doing what amounts to nothing.
michaelmrose 7y ago
Having had to deal with issues in Seattle myself and having had family members that were the victims of crime in Seattle I'm sympathetic however can't we do a better job of dealing with the violent and deal with addicts without throwing them into an oubliette? Regarding the idiot trying to throw women over the overpass. Your statement is in error. It's a crime to try to harm people as well and he has in fact been arrested repeatedly. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/man-arrested-for-trying-to-throw-woman-off-seattle-overpass/931766654 https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/man-arrested-for-trying-to-... The problem is they keep dismissing the charges because he is incompetent AND not locking him up for everyone's safety not that they haven't arrested him. They are currently trying to figure out what to do with him this time now 19-1-02095-1 SEA STATE OF WASHINGTON VS WILSON, JONATHAN JAMES Criminal - Active https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/405/2696881/FV-Public-Case-Summary-Portal https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/405/2696881/F... Lets hope they decide to do something smarter this time.
- unethical_ban 7y ago
  I think the tough call needs to be made that when someone is obviously mentally ill, homeless and without proper sane supervision, the State should institutionalize them indefinitely.
  - anarazel 7y ago
    And also suspend pretty basic rights, and deal with all the outcomes from people being institutionalized for not so well meaning reasons?
    - cavisne 7y ago
      What basic right allows you to try and murder someone?
      - DanBC 7y ago
        Police arrive at your home and they detain you, and take you to hospital. They claim that you might murder someone. How do you get out of hospital?
dan_quixote 7y ago
For the people you describe, there are basically no social services. The typical cycle is: 1 - police arrest them 2 - if they seem psychotic or mentally troubled they get dropped off at an ER 3 - the social workers at the ER (mostly) unsuccessfully try to find a place for them at a mental health provider 4 - eventually they get released by court order 5 - cycle repeats I have friend that is on the front line as a social worker. Any time one of these prominent incidents occurs, I make sure to ask if she knows the perp. And about 50% of the time they are a former patient that she couldn't find a spot for at a mental institution.

by dymk 7y ago

trentnix 7y ago

Often reality doesn’t fit the narrative, comrade.

dang 7y ago
Maybe not, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.

taurath 7y ago

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

allana 7y ago
They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most-dangerous-neighborhood-by-magnolia/ http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...
- ChuckMcM 7y ago
  I like The Needling's tag line, Seattle's only Real Fake News.
  - allana 7y ago
    They produce some great articles :3
- sukilot 7y ago
  > is such an issue The needling is also not working from data...
  - ndarwincorn 7y ago
    The article is satirizing sentiment reflected in data gathered by Seattle U and reported on by the Seattle Times[1]. This was linked in that Needling article. [1] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/mean-world-syndrome-in-some-seattle-neighborhoods-fear-of-crime-exceeds-reality/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/mean-world-sy...
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  The Seattle police hardly show up anymore unless there is an active shooter. No arrest, no statistics. When they do arrest someone, the city and county prosecutors often refuse to press charges. No charge, no statistics.
tjr225 7y ago
Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer. And I live in the Central District, which is one of the more violent neighborhoods.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  It wasn’t this bad in the 90s or 80s, when crime was higher everywhere else. Relatively speaking, Seattle is worse off than it was before, which is a bit sad for the non transplants.
  - throwawaysea 7y ago
    Exactly this. Transplants are part of the problem though - they’ve brought their political culture/voting habits/policies with them, and are ruining a formerly effectively managed city without asking why it was attractive to move here in the first place.
    - ndarwincorn 7y ago
      Please go ask the lifers at the May Day riots how they feel about the effective management of the city before all these darn transplants showed up.
  - taurath 7y ago
    Every stat on violent crime I’ve seen is that the 80s were a peak tho?
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      The homeless problem wasn’t as large in the 80s, violent crime was maybe higher, but property crime seems to have been lower. I worked at 3rd and pine McDonald’s in 94-95 (one of the main hangouts for Seattle’s homeless population back then), and downtown was a lot more sane back then. The policing was much more aggressive than it is today, which I think had a large part to do with that.
dymk 7y ago
Do you need statistics to tell you that it's wrong to not prosecute violent repeat offenders?
- taurath 7y ago
  Gimme the details then? How did it happen? What was the justification if any? Did it actually happen?
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    From another comment: https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-attempted-to-throw-woman-off-I-5-13701108.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att...

vkou 7y ago

What about all the people who aren't running around with pitchforks who have been diverted out of the addiction to prison pipeline? Would you rather be paying $100,000+ a year/person to judge and jail them for the crime of being addicted while poor? (I've yet to see people entering that pipeline for the crime of being addicted while rich.)

dymk 7y ago
Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and a really weird dichotomy to boot. I said that these violent addicts are refusing offered social services, yet we let them walk around and continue to harm the public.
- vkou 7y ago
  > Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, No, it's not. What you said, in response to the article was: > I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. The implication here is that redirecting non-violent addicts off the addiction --> prison pipeline was a policy mistake. I ask why you think that non-violent addicts should be put into prison. You tell me I'm grossly misrepresenting your point of view. Which point of view do you actually hold? Do you think that non-violent addicts should be provided with help, or prison? Pick one, and own it. I don't care one whit about your opinions on violent people in public spaces. I doubt they differ from mine, and it's not an interesting conversation.
  - timdev2 7y ago
    You replied to a post complaining that the policy also seemed to be giving violent individuals a pass, and accused them of "think[ing] that non-violent addicts should be put into prison". Which was neither said nor (as you claim) implied. The comment was explicitly bemoaning a perceived plague of "repeat violent drug addicts"
    - vkou 7y ago
      The policy being shilled by the article in question is about non-violent addicts. Whatever problems the commenter in question has with violent criminals has absolutely nothing to do with it - but they chose to attack the non-violent policy (And then get defensive about how their points are being misconstrued. What are those points, then? Violent crime is bad, and should be dealt with? I don't think anyone disagrees with that one. What does it have to do with a diversion of non-violent addicts?) It's like complaining that standards on organically-grown produce aren't preventing contaminated meat from ending up at your grocery store. Whatever problems you have with contaminated meat have nothing to do with the produce policy.

paggle 7y ago

Just looked up the hot coffee case. It could only happen in a city with strict gun laws. In Texas someone would have enacted his sheriff fantasies on this perpetrator a long time ago.

grogenaut 7y ago
Seattle, part of Washington, actually has concealed carry as legal. There is no duty to retreat either, no real different than any "gun friendly" state. So your point is invalid. Anyone can have loaded carry pistol, this shows you to be pointless in this example. I assume you're just trying to troll and failing badly.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Yes, but Seattle being Seattle it is not populated by the kind of people who will pack heat. That's like saying "well Austin is part of Texas so why doesn't everyone wear a cowboy hat and go hog hunting on the weekend." Both those cities are basically San Fransisco demographically speaking. And just because concealed carry legal doesn't mean the process is constructed in such a way that normal people can actually do it (see CA, MA, NYC and NJ for examples of this) though I'm not sure about Seattle specifically.
  - itsyaboi 7y ago
    Isn't Washington a open carry state?
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      Probably. IIRC most states are. Pretty much nobody who isn't a security guard or armored car employee who's actively working open carries not on their own property in any state.
    - dymk 7y ago
      Doesn’t really mean much when open carrying immediately results in the police showing up/inciting panic.

mieseratte 7y ago

> He keeps failing at doing so, and the cops say "Can't do anything, he hasn't actually thrown somebody off". How does that play out such that they can't get him on some type of assault / harassment? Is he politely asking these women if they would like to be thrown off the overpass and politely walking off when they demur?

dymk 7y ago
Oh sorry, they actually can do something; in fact they've caught-and-released this guy three times before finally saying "Maybe he is dangerous": https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-attempted-to-throw-woman-off-I-5-13701108.php https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att... But I'm not holding my breath for them to actually put him away, given their past decisions to not separate him from the public.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  From that article: > Charges for the first three assaults were dismissed by the City of Seattle because of mental health concerns, prosecutors said in the charging papers. Jesus, WTF? If he is attacking people because of mental illness, why isn't he locked up in a mental hospital? "Sorry, you attacked people but you're crazy, so have a nice day!" And why is trying to throw someone off an overpass charged with assault and not with attempted murder?
  - Miner49er 7y ago
    I don't think they have any mental hospitals to put him in. Locking people up in mental hospitals isn't much of a thing anymore.
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      Does Seattle / Washington not have anything? I live in one of those "poor Red states", and we absolutely do. I know a few folks who have been forcefully committed, though the common denominator seemed self-harm as opposed to harming passerby. Seems very odd Wilson managed to dodge both mental facilities and prisons.

notus 7y ago

Solving community problems come with community sacrifices. I'm a big proponent of housing first, drug rehab second. It is exponentially harder to get clean without housing and a support network. Decriminalizing drug addiction is a good step in that direction IMO. I think another side of this coin though is we need to bring back institutionalization of mental health care. Implemented today it would be vastly different from the 80's and before because our understanding of therapy has gone from stirring up and injecting memories into people to cognitive behavioral therapy which is very much a feel good form of therapy. I question your statement about the guy on the 1-5 ramp attempting to throw small women off the overpass. How is attempted defined here? Does he grab them? If so he would definitely be arrested for battery charges. I get the impression he is probably chasing them and saying he is going to do it. That seems like a legitimate reason to get someone mental health help but not a legitimate reason to incarcerate someone. As long as we have this gaping hole in our system that just ignores mental health problems or tries to categorize them as criminal we will continue to have this problem. Source on housing first being effective: https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.94.4.651 https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.94.4...

awakeasleep 7y ago
Housing first is effective for people who want our idea of a 'normal lifestyle' I think people in this thread are asking you to question your assumption- do you think every drug addict on the west coast wants to hold down a job and live our normal life?
- Miner49er 7y ago
  Why are you assuming that giving a person a house means they have to have a normal life? Can't they live in the house and continue not to have a job and continue living a non-normal life and get clean too?
- notus 7y ago
  People don't want to be drug addicts and live a poor existence to feed a habit. They have problems, they use the drugs to medicate or fit in, the problems compound with drug use, so they use more to deal with the problems more. They are also ostracized by communities which nobody likes as we are social creatures. The level of that social exclusion probably depends a lot on their current level of wealth. People like having shelter and their physical needs met and while they might not necessarily want normal either, I'd argue a big part of that is more that they have poor coping strategies and don't now how to cope with normal. There will always be people who don't fall into certain strategies for combating homelessness and drug addiction, but this is a much better approach than doing what amounts to nothing.

michaelmrose 7y ago

Having had to deal with issues in Seattle myself and having had family members that were the victims of crime in Seattle I'm sympathetic however can't we do a better job of dealing with the violent and deal with addicts without throwing them into an oubliette? Regarding the idiot trying to throw women over the overpass. Your statement is in error. It's a crime to try to harm people as well and he has in fact been arrested repeatedly. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/man-arrested-for-trying-to-throw-woman-off-seattle-overpass/931766654 https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/man-arrested-for-trying-to-... The problem is they keep dismissing the charges because he is incompetent AND not locking him up for everyone's safety not that they haven't arrested him. They are currently trying to figure out what to do with him this time now 19-1-02095-1 SEA STATE OF WASHINGTON VS WILSON, JONATHAN JAMES Criminal - Active https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/405/2696881/FV-Public-Case-Summary-Portal https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/405/2696881/F... Lets hope they decide to do something smarter this time.

unethical_ban 7y ago
I think the tough call needs to be made that when someone is obviously mentally ill, homeless and without proper sane supervision, the State should institutionalize them indefinitely.
- anarazel 7y ago
  And also suspend pretty basic rights, and deal with all the outcomes from people being institutionalized for not so well meaning reasons?
  - cavisne 7y ago
    What basic right allows you to try and murder someone?
    - DanBC 7y ago
      Police arrive at your home and they detain you, and take you to hospital. They claim that you might murder someone. How do you get out of hospital?

dan_quixote 7y ago

For the people you describe, there are basically no social services. The typical cycle is: 1 - police arrest them 2 - if they seem psychotic or mentally troubled they get dropped off at an ER 3 - the social workers at the ER (mostly) unsuccessfully try to find a place for them at a mental health provider 4 - eventually they get released by court order 5 - cycle repeats I have friend that is on the front line as a social worker. Any time one of these prominent incidents occurs, I make sure to ask if she knows the perp. And about 50% of the time they are a former patient that she couldn't find a spot for at a mental institution.