11 ms·

Why we lie about being retired

92 points by QuitterStrip 7y ago

esotericn 7y ago
This is mostly an artifact, I think, of the fact that people are obsessed with the question "what do you do?" within the narrow framing of a commercial job. And everyone is expected to be working all the time otherwise they must be in trouble somehow, despite the fact that at least 50% of people in Western countries earn enough to not need to do that. I've had periods, I suppose you would call them 'sabbatical', in which I've mostly just mucked around. Learned a new language. Fiddled around with IoT stuff. Done some travelling. Read a lot. Just enjoy life. During that period, what am I? I'm just a guy. Historically I did software development for work. In the future I'll probably do the same. But that identity of full time employment just doesn't exist. I generally joke and say I'm retired or that I'm an open source developer or whatever else. But of course that's different coming from someone who won't be hitting government retirement ages for a few decades.
- hinkley 7y ago
  I've hated that question since the 1st grade when it was 'what will you do (when you grow up)' No six year old knows the answer to that question and that's a lot of pressure. Also, you're at a social event, where people are supposed to be pretending to be humans. Fuck you for making me think about work during my time off. With all sincerity. If I ask people an ice-breaker about activities, I ask them what they do for fun.
  - ryandrake 7y ago
    “So what do you do” is one of those small-talky ice breaker questions that people tend to use as a polite way to figure out where to stick you on their social/class/importance totem pole. It’s usually none of the asker’s business, but they ask anyway. I sometimes respond with “exotic dancer” which (if you know what I look like) gets a laugh and allows the conversation to steer off into a different direction.
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      I ask people what they do so that I can understand how to talk to them. There's a huge difference between the jargon/diction I can use with someone else in biotech vs someone is a completely unrelated field, as well as even topics of conversation that we'd find interesting. I take a lot of pride in my work and enjoy talking about it, and I'd guess a lot of people do as well. If they don't we can always talk about something else.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - bradlys 7y ago
      You can also use it to just get a general sense of what someone is. There are a lot of stats related to various professions. It gives an idea of your likely background and what not. It's a good jumping off question because choice of career can be the biggest decision someone makes and seeing how someone came to such a decision can be very insightful to the type of person they are. If I ask that question and someone says something like that (or similar avoidance stance) then I know they're very likely insecure or uncomfortable talking about their choice of work. You can read into that a lot to get various ideas but I like to use such things to put together a whole picture of a person. I, personally, like the question.
      - esotericn 7y ago
        You're making a lot of assumptions here. Perhaps the person didn't choose their work. They want to be a professional developer, but right now they're working in Starbucks. Perhaps they don't want to tell you, because they're sick of people fawning or acting strangely towards them. I've spoken to a fair few people like that - say they're a hedge fund manager or whatever, they don't want to bring that to the pub and basically wave the fact they're a decamillionaire in your face.
        bradlys 7y ago
        > Perhaps the person didn't choose their work. They want to be a professional developer, but right now they're working in Starbucks. I had a longer answer that I trimmed down but that's one of the reasons you can guess why someone isn't saying why they do what they do. Chances you're interacting with a decamillionaire is much lower than vs someone who doesn't like to mention [insert not typically viewed as a great job here]. There are no assumptions here - just likelihoods.
  - repomies691 7y ago
    I think it is very easy to answer to this question in a way that will steer the discussion away from your work, if you want. Just answer with general decription like "software developer, in a small company", whatever. Unless you are really unlucky any natural person will just lose interest. I myself ask this question now and then just because there is nothing else to talk about.
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  I'm a 50-something software/hardware/embedded developer. Currently working a startup gig. But at the end of the year, that gig likely loses funding and I'll need to look for another. At this point in my career I'm pretty picky (I only choose gigs that seem interesting/fun to me) so it will likely take 6 to a year to find another (last time it took about 9 months to find a gig that was interesting). So in some sense I consider myself semi-retired. I can afford to not work for money for 18 months to 2 years before I need to start worrying about cash flow. It's been this way for about the last 6 years and likely this is how it'll be until I start drawing social security.
  - esotericn 7y ago
    Sounds pretty similar to my situation, to be honest, plus a couple of decades :P I used to describe myself as 'semi-retired' and people seemed a bit baffled. I think they interpreted it as me being some sort of trust fund guy, when the reality is, other than the odd toy, I just live as if I earned about minimum wage.
- CrackpotGonzo 7y ago
  I recently realized that all of my life I've been trying to figure what I want to be, when I should've been focusing on who I want to be.
- Aloha 7y ago
  I consider retired to be a occupation, in the same way that bald is a hair color, and pizza is a sandwich.
40acres 7y ago
There is a huge difference between retiring and retiring healthy. Both of my parents retired due to medical reasons and are not as mobile as they once were, they have confided in me that retirement is extremely boring and if it wasnt for church and living so close to family (same apartment complex) they would have nothing to do. I'd love to see more programs that pair retirees with young people to tackle local problems, there is a clear trend regarding increasing lonlieness among young adults and retirement age folks.
- derekp7 7y ago
  It seems that hackerspaces would be the perfect place for retirees and younger folks to mix. The older people tend to have more mechanical skills through life experience, and can help the younger ones learn to make things (wood / metal working, general building techniques, etc). Personally, I'm at least 15 years from retirement, and one of my plans is to hang out at either hackerspaces, libraries, or other areas like that.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    A hacker space is simply a community center with more tooling. While I think the word “inclusion” is overloaded today, I think there’s great value in community building. “Make Libraries Great Again” sort of thing. Build a space where people with shared interests can come together, and those without connections and interests can be introduced to them. Time and time again, research is showing that human connection is what keeps us happy and helps us live longer, healthier lives. Optimize for human connection, self actualization, fulfillment, and purpose. Why this idea is not a first class citizen in the first world is beyond me.
    - tsjq 7y ago
      your comment reminded me of a Podcast episode: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/palaces-for-the-people/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/palaces-for-the-peopl...
  - hinkley 7y ago
raintrees 7y ago
I have shifted to part-time, and found it a bit difficult at first. What helped me most was assigning priorities, refreshing my To Do list once a week or so. Without it, I tended to spend most of the day doing who knows what, and realizing the day was pretty much over. I was also the type who had a hard time relaxing when going on a week or two of vacation. Maybe 4-5 days before I had finally unwound, then champing at the bit 9-10 days in, having a hard time waiting to get back to "work." So I am setting up passive income streams, expecting I will likely be a tinkerer, rather than a complete life of leisure, as I had first fantasized... That also seems to sort my "identity" as well, as I, too, identified myself by my chosen profession...
tyayers 7y ago
Every phase of life can be a difficult transition, we should mentor retirees to help them find their purpose in their new situation. Capitalism tends to only recognize jobs on the basis of wealth, but what truly counts is being fulfilled by how we pass the hours, of being needed, and retirees have a great opportunity to find that in unexpected places. In German the word for career is Beruf, which means "calling" - that is a great way of seeing it, and finding our calling, regardless of our phase in life. But we can't always get lucky and find our calling alone, and so we should always be on the lookout to help those around us find theirs.
hsnewman 7y ago
I have already retired from a City job, and am working still. I am reaping great income from doing this, but my time working will be ending soon. I plan on having a active retirement with my wife and staying healthy as a result. (Less than 1 year and counting @ 60 yrs old)...
mrmonkeyman 7y ago
I don't fantasize about being lazy and playing golf. I'll just work, tinker, fix stuff, whatever. I have way, way too much interests and hobbies and could use some extra hours in the day.
ergothus 7y ago
One thing I think is notable is how the article that work is how people meet others and encounter new ideas. As online interactions and news become more prevalent (I realize not everyone is equally online), does this change? I myself have never shared my family's "I can't imagine life without work" - I've been emotionally eager for retirement since I was 20 and the last 20 years have only sharpened my appetite. There is so much to learn and try that work just in the way of. Of course, much of what I want to do could be considered "work", but the freedom to do it to the degree I want at any moment, and on my own schedule is a big deal. But this article made me think about how that is true for me BECAUSE I don't have to go to an office to be exposed to new ideas, to be aware of new developments. Sadly, I've got at least 20 more years to go before I get to test the reality of my expectations.
readhn 7y ago
Most people lead boring lives long before their retirement... have friends who have no lives, dont take vacations. just going through the motions. Whats the point?
- kleer001 7y ago
  Their individual points and motivations? Their place in evolutionary time and motivation? Not everyone is highly creative and a go-getting problem solver. Not everyone is a life long learner. If fact they're kinda rare.
jedberg 7y ago
I’ve recently switched from asking people, “where do you work” to “what do you fill your time with each day?” Most people just tell me where they work and what they do. Some people tell me about other things, and if they are retired or unemployed they don’t feel embarrassed. Maybe if we all started doing this, people would feel less compelled to tie their job to their identity.
- perspective1 7y ago
  I've tried exactly that. Most of what I got back was questioned looks followed by something like, "you mean where do I work?" Maybe I'm around different people.
  - Japhy_Ryder 7y ago
    > Maybe I'm around different people. Unless you literally are jedberg but using an alternate HN account, I can assure you that you are around different people.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    I mostly get the same response. It’s a slow moving revolution. :)
- jupiter90000 7y ago
  I do something similar, if someone asks "what do you do?" They usually mean "what is your job?" But, I will still ask in response, "do you mean what do I do for work?" Because there should be more to who we are and life I think, and I want to encourage others to think about that too. They may think I'm weird, that's fine.
- seppin 7y ago
  > I’ve recently switched from asking people, “where do you work” to “what do you fill your time with each day?” Amazing how perfectly SV says and does the same thing. I literally overhead the exact statement in a cafe yesterday. This is also a symptom of people in SV/SF having nothing but their careers to talk about, all day every day. It's so boring.
_hardwaregeek 7y ago
I'm young and nowhere close to retiring, but I already have friends who have bought into the whole retire early train. Except, it's kinda like the recent SNL skit Romano Tours^[1]. If you're sad now, you're gonna be sad then. Retiring isn't gonna fix their problems. They're not going to be suddenly happy. And even if everything goes right (no kids, no health problems, high income, low cost of living) and they retire "early", that's still going to be in their late 30's, early 40's. And then what? My friends claim they'll figure something out, but if they've lived 40 years without any sense of self actualization, I'm skeptical that they'd suddenly find themselves. I'm not saying one should work a meaningless job instead of retiring, but I don't get waiting for decades to find one's purpose in life. Might as well wait for Godot. And if retiring early doesn't work out, one can end up like the main character in Ikiru: 30 years of perfect attendance and absolutely nothing to show for it. But hey, maybe that's just my anxiety about starting out adult life. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwlC2B-BIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwlC2B-BIg
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jeanmichelx 7y ago
That Arab Spring comparison is gross. Opressive governments are making political opponents disappear, use torture, etc. But sure tell me how hard it is to work two more years.
dstroot 7y ago
I’ve retired twice so far. Each time I loved it for a while and then eventually I miss the social contacts from a work environment and the stimulation. I LOVE making things happen. So I end up going back to work for a while. Also paying for healthcare on your own is challenging. It would be ideal for older folks to gracefully exit full time work by transitioning to part time but also have a means to keep health care.
- whichquestion 7y ago
  This is one of the reasons I want universal health care in my country. I should be able to get the health care I need from my government for a reasonable cost regardless of my employment situation. I don’t want to have to sacrifice my retirement plans because of my inability to pay for health care.
  - MystK 7y ago
    Would you be willing to pay 10% more of your taxes your whole career for this? I'm sure everything wants what you want, but I think the question is at what cost.
    - jonathan92591 7y ago
      You also need to factor in savings. How much people would save if healthcare was free. I know for me, if healthcare was free, and my taxes went up, even 10%, over my lifetime, I would save more with free healthcare than I would lose to higher taxes - especially as my family ages.
    - whichquestion 7y ago
      I think the amount of tax one contributes would be dependent on how much income one makes. I might contribute 4% where another might contribute 10%. Besides, I already pay for health insurance and deductibles. So if I don’t have to pay for those but instead have a tax, and I’m covered when I don’t have an employer? Yes, sign me up.
    - mikekchar 7y ago
ralphc 7y ago
The thing about retirement for most HN readers is that you don't have to stop your "work". Programming, writing, these are activities you can continue to do, and make a difference. Unlike doctors, lawyers, hair stylists etc. that need another person to do their profession. I retired at 55, and I'm learning data science and machine learning, doing some Salesforce work for a nonprofit, and I hope to contribute to the reboot of the HospitalRun project.
maire 7y ago
I finally realized what bothers me about this article. It assumes that when you retire you are no longer a practitioner of your life's work. Being employed is your only definition of self. I might be a retired but I am still an engineer. I still think and do as an engineer - just nobody is paying me. All this reminds me of Ursula Le Guin's final book of essays before she passed away. Le Guin received a survey for 1951 graduates of Harvard or Radcliff. The survey assumed that employment is the only value to your life. Here is a quote from the book: “But it was Question 18 that really got me down. ‘In your spare time, what do you do? (check all that apply).’ And the list begins: ‘Golf…’ ... “The key words are spare time. What do they mean? “To a working person — supermarket checker, lawyer, highway crewman, housewife, cellist, computer repairer, teacher, waitress — spare time is the time not spent at your job or at otherwise keeping yourself alive, cooking, keeping clean, getting the car fixed, getting the kids to school. To people in the midst of life, spare time is free time, and valued as such. “But to people in their eighties? What do retired people have but ‘spare’ time? “I’m not exactly retired, because I never had a job to retire from. I still work, though not as hard as I did. I have always been and am proud to consider myself a working woman. But to the Questioners of Harvard my lifework has been a ‘creative activity,’ a hobby, something you do to fill up spare time. Perhaps if they knew I’d made a living out of it they’d move it to a more respectable category, but I rather doubt it. “The question remains: When all the time you have is spare, is free, what to do you make of it?…. “The opposite of spare time is, I guess, occupied time. In my case I still don’t know what spare time is because all my time is occupied. It always has been and it is now. It’s occupied by living. “An increasing part of living, at my age, is mere bodily maintenance, which is tiresome. But I cannot find anywhere in my life a time, or a kind of time, that is unoccupied. “I am free, but my time is not. “My time is fully and vitally occupied with sleep, with daydreaming, with doing business and writing friends and family on email, with reading, with writing poetry, with writing prose, with thinking, with forgetting, with embroidering, with cooking and eating a meal and cleaning up the kitchen, with consulting Virgil, with meeting friends, with talking with my husband, with going out to shop for groceries, with walking if I can walk and traveling if we are traveling, and sitting Vipassana sometimes, with watching a movie sometimes, with doing the Eight Precious Chinese exercises when I can, with lying down for an afternoon rest with a volume of Krazy Kat to read and my own slightly crazy cat occupying the region between my upper thighs and mid-calves, where he arranges himself and goes instantly and deeply to sleep. “None of this is spare time. I can’t spare it. What is Harvard thinking of? I am going to be eighty-one next week. I have no time to spare.”

92 points by QuitterStrip 7y ago

This is mostly an artifact, I think, of the fact that people are obsessed with the question "what do you do?" within the narrow framing of a commercial job. And everyone is expected to be working all the time otherwise they must be in trouble somehow, despite the fact that at least 50% of people in Western countries earn enough to not need to do that. I've had periods, I suppose you would call them 'sabbatical', in which I've mostly just mucked around. Learned a new language. Fiddled around with IoT stuff. Done some travelling. Read a lot. Just enjoy life. During that period, what am I? I'm just a guy. Historically I did software development for work. In the future I'll probably do the same. But that identity of full time employment just doesn't exist. I generally joke and say I'm retired or that I'm an open source developer or whatever else. But of course that's different coming from someone who won't be hitting government retirement ages for a few decades.

hinkley 7y ago
I've hated that question since the 1st grade when it was 'what will you do (when you grow up)' No six year old knows the answer to that question and that's a lot of pressure. Also, you're at a social event, where people are supposed to be pretending to be humans. Fuck you for making me think about work during my time off. With all sincerity. If I ask people an ice-breaker about activities, I ask them what they do for fun.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  “So what do you do” is one of those small-talky ice breaker questions that people tend to use as a polite way to figure out where to stick you on their social/class/importance totem pole. It’s usually none of the asker’s business, but they ask anyway. I sometimes respond with “exotic dancer” which (if you know what I look like) gets a laugh and allows the conversation to steer off into a different direction.
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    I ask people what they do so that I can understand how to talk to them. There's a huge difference between the jargon/diction I can use with someone else in biotech vs someone is a completely unrelated field, as well as even topics of conversation that we'd find interesting. I take a lot of pride in my work and enjoy talking about it, and I'd guess a lot of people do as well. If they don't we can always talk about something else.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - bradlys 7y ago
    You can also use it to just get a general sense of what someone is. There are a lot of stats related to various professions. It gives an idea of your likely background and what not. It's a good jumping off question because choice of career can be the biggest decision someone makes and seeing how someone came to such a decision can be very insightful to the type of person they are. If I ask that question and someone says something like that (or similar avoidance stance) then I know they're very likely insecure or uncomfortable talking about their choice of work. You can read into that a lot to get various ideas but I like to use such things to put together a whole picture of a person. I, personally, like the question.
    - esotericn 7y ago
      You're making a lot of assumptions here. Perhaps the person didn't choose their work. They want to be a professional developer, but right now they're working in Starbucks. Perhaps they don't want to tell you, because they're sick of people fawning or acting strangely towards them. I've spoken to a fair few people like that - say they're a hedge fund manager or whatever, they don't want to bring that to the pub and basically wave the fact they're a decamillionaire in your face.
      - bradlys 7y ago
        > Perhaps the person didn't choose their work. They want to be a professional developer, but right now they're working in Starbucks. I had a longer answer that I trimmed down but that's one of the reasons you can guess why someone isn't saying why they do what they do. Chances you're interacting with a decamillionaire is much lower than vs someone who doesn't like to mention [insert not typically viewed as a great job here]. There are no assumptions here - just likelihoods.
- repomies691 7y ago
  I think it is very easy to answer to this question in a way that will steer the discussion away from your work, if you want. Just answer with general decription like "software developer, in a small company", whatever. Unless you are really unlucky any natural person will just lose interest. I myself ask this question now and then just because there is nothing else to talk about.
UncleOxidant 7y ago
I'm a 50-something software/hardware/embedded developer. Currently working a startup gig. But at the end of the year, that gig likely loses funding and I'll need to look for another. At this point in my career I'm pretty picky (I only choose gigs that seem interesting/fun to me) so it will likely take 6 to a year to find another (last time it took about 9 months to find a gig that was interesting). So in some sense I consider myself semi-retired. I can afford to not work for money for 18 months to 2 years before I need to start worrying about cash flow. It's been this way for about the last 6 years and likely this is how it'll be until I start drawing social security.
- esotericn 7y ago
  Sounds pretty similar to my situation, to be honest, plus a couple of decades :P I used to describe myself as 'semi-retired' and people seemed a bit baffled. I think they interpreted it as me being some sort of trust fund guy, when the reality is, other than the odd toy, I just live as if I earned about minimum wage.
CrackpotGonzo 7y ago
I recently realized that all of my life I've been trying to figure what I want to be, when I should've been focusing on who I want to be.
Aloha 7y ago
I consider retired to be a occupation, in the same way that bald is a hair color, and pizza is a sandwich.

40acres 7y ago

There is a huge difference between retiring and retiring healthy. Both of my parents retired due to medical reasons and are not as mobile as they once were, they have confided in me that retirement is extremely boring and if it wasnt for church and living so close to family (same apartment complex) they would have nothing to do. I'd love to see more programs that pair retirees with young people to tackle local problems, there is a clear trend regarding increasing lonlieness among young adults and retirement age folks.

derekp7 7y ago
It seems that hackerspaces would be the perfect place for retirees and younger folks to mix. The older people tend to have more mechanical skills through life experience, and can help the younger ones learn to make things (wood / metal working, general building techniques, etc). Personally, I'm at least 15 years from retirement, and one of my plans is to hang out at either hackerspaces, libraries, or other areas like that.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  A hacker space is simply a community center with more tooling. While I think the word “inclusion” is overloaded today, I think there’s great value in community building. “Make Libraries Great Again” sort of thing. Build a space where people with shared interests can come together, and those without connections and interests can be introduced to them. Time and time again, research is showing that human connection is what keeps us happy and helps us live longer, healthier lives. Optimize for human connection, self actualization, fulfillment, and purpose. Why this idea is not a first class citizen in the first world is beyond me.
  - tsjq 7y ago
    your comment reminded me of a Podcast episode: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/palaces-for-the-people/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/palaces-for-the-peopl...
- hinkley 7y ago

raintrees 7y ago

I have shifted to part-time, and found it a bit difficult at first. What helped me most was assigning priorities, refreshing my To Do list once a week or so. Without it, I tended to spend most of the day doing who knows what, and realizing the day was pretty much over. I was also the type who had a hard time relaxing when going on a week or two of vacation. Maybe 4-5 days before I had finally unwound, then champing at the bit 9-10 days in, having a hard time waiting to get back to "work." So I am setting up passive income streams, expecting I will likely be a tinkerer, rather than a complete life of leisure, as I had first fantasized... That also seems to sort my "identity" as well, as I, too, identified myself by my chosen profession...

tyayers 7y ago

Every phase of life can be a difficult transition, we should mentor retirees to help them find their purpose in their new situation. Capitalism tends to only recognize jobs on the basis of wealth, but what truly counts is being fulfilled by how we pass the hours, of being needed, and retirees have a great opportunity to find that in unexpected places. In German the word for career is Beruf, which means "calling" - that is a great way of seeing it, and finding our calling, regardless of our phase in life. But we can't always get lucky and find our calling alone, and so we should always be on the lookout to help those around us find theirs.

hsnewman 7y ago

I have already retired from a City job, and am working still. I am reaping great income from doing this, but my time working will be ending soon. I plan on having a active retirement with my wife and staying healthy as a result. (Less than 1 year and counting @ 60 yrs old)...

mrmonkeyman 7y ago

I don't fantasize about being lazy and playing golf. I'll just work, tinker, fix stuff, whatever. I have way, way too much interests and hobbies and could use some extra hours in the day.

ergothus 7y ago

One thing I think is notable is how the article that work is how people meet others and encounter new ideas. As online interactions and news become more prevalent (I realize not everyone is equally online), does this change? I myself have never shared my family's "I can't imagine life without work" - I've been emotionally eager for retirement since I was 20 and the last 20 years have only sharpened my appetite. There is so much to learn and try that work just in the way of. Of course, much of what I want to do could be considered "work", but the freedom to do it to the degree I want at any moment, and on my own schedule is a big deal. But this article made me think about how that is true for me BECAUSE I don't have to go to an office to be exposed to new ideas, to be aware of new developments. Sadly, I've got at least 20 more years to go before I get to test the reality of my expectations.

readhn 7y ago

Most people lead boring lives long before their retirement... have friends who have no lives, dont take vacations. just going through the motions. Whats the point?

kleer001 7y ago
Their individual points and motivations? Their place in evolutionary time and motivation? Not everyone is highly creative and a go-getting problem solver. Not everyone is a life long learner. If fact they're kinda rare.

jedberg 7y ago

I’ve recently switched from asking people, “where do you work” to “what do you fill your time with each day?” Most people just tell me where they work and what they do. Some people tell me about other things, and if they are retired or unemployed they don’t feel embarrassed. Maybe if we all started doing this, people would feel less compelled to tie their job to their identity.

perspective1 7y ago
I've tried exactly that. Most of what I got back was questioned looks followed by something like, "you mean where do I work?" Maybe I'm around different people.
- Japhy_Ryder 7y ago
  > Maybe I'm around different people. Unless you literally are jedberg but using an alternate HN account, I can assure you that you are around different people.
- jedberg 7y ago
  I mostly get the same response. It’s a slow moving revolution. :)
jupiter90000 7y ago
I do something similar, if someone asks "what do you do?" They usually mean "what is your job?" But, I will still ask in response, "do you mean what do I do for work?" Because there should be more to who we are and life I think, and I want to encourage others to think about that too. They may think I'm weird, that's fine.
seppin 7y ago
> I’ve recently switched from asking people, “where do you work” to “what do you fill your time with each day?” Amazing how perfectly SV says and does the same thing. I literally overhead the exact statement in a cafe yesterday. This is also a symptom of people in SV/SF having nothing but their careers to talk about, all day every day. It's so boring.

_hardwaregeek 7y ago

I'm young and nowhere close to retiring, but I already have friends who have bought into the whole retire early train. Except, it's kinda like the recent SNL skit Romano Tours^[1]. If you're sad now, you're gonna be sad then. Retiring isn't gonna fix their problems. They're not going to be suddenly happy. And even if everything goes right (no kids, no health problems, high income, low cost of living) and they retire "early", that's still going to be in their late 30's, early 40's. And then what? My friends claim they'll figure something out, but if they've lived 40 years without any sense of self actualization, I'm skeptical that they'd suddenly find themselves. I'm not saying one should work a meaningless job instead of retiring, but I don't get waiting for decades to find one's purpose in life. Might as well wait for Godot. And if retiring early doesn't work out, one can end up like the main character in Ikiru: 30 years of perfect attendance and absolutely nothing to show for it. But hey, maybe that's just my anxiety about starting out adult life. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwlC2B-BIg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwlC2B-BIg

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jeanmichelx 7y ago

That Arab Spring comparison is gross. Opressive governments are making political opponents disappear, use torture, etc. But sure tell me how hard it is to work two more years.

dstroot 7y ago

I’ve retired twice so far. Each time I loved it for a while and then eventually I miss the social contacts from a work environment and the stimulation. I LOVE making things happen. So I end up going back to work for a while. Also paying for healthcare on your own is challenging. It would be ideal for older folks to gracefully exit full time work by transitioning to part time but also have a means to keep health care.

whichquestion 7y ago
This is one of the reasons I want universal health care in my country. I should be able to get the health care I need from my government for a reasonable cost regardless of my employment situation. I don’t want to have to sacrifice my retirement plans because of my inability to pay for health care.
- MystK 7y ago
  Would you be willing to pay 10% more of your taxes your whole career for this? I'm sure everything wants what you want, but I think the question is at what cost.
  - jonathan92591 7y ago
    You also need to factor in savings. How much people would save if healthcare was free. I know for me, if healthcare was free, and my taxes went up, even 10%, over my lifetime, I would save more with free healthcare than I would lose to higher taxes - especially as my family ages.
  - whichquestion 7y ago
    I think the amount of tax one contributes would be dependent on how much income one makes. I might contribute 4% where another might contribute 10%. Besides, I already pay for health insurance and deductibles. So if I don’t have to pay for those but instead have a tax, and I’m covered when I don’t have an employer? Yes, sign me up.
  - mikekchar 7y ago

ralphc 7y ago

The thing about retirement for most HN readers is that you don't have to stop your "work". Programming, writing, these are activities you can continue to do, and make a difference. Unlike doctors, lawyers, hair stylists etc. that need another person to do their profession. I retired at 55, and I'm learning data science and machine learning, doing some Salesforce work for a nonprofit, and I hope to contribute to the reboot of the HospitalRun project.

maire 7y ago

I finally realized what bothers me about this article. It assumes that when you retire you are no longer a practitioner of your life's work. Being employed is your only definition of self. I might be a retired but I am still an engineer. I still think and do as an engineer - just nobody is paying me. All this reminds me of Ursula Le Guin's final book of essays before she passed away. Le Guin received a survey for 1951 graduates of Harvard or Radcliff. The survey assumed that employment is the only value to your life. Here is a quote from the book: “But it was Question 18 that really got me down. ‘In your spare time, what do you do? (check all that apply).’ And the list begins: ‘Golf…’ ... “The key words are spare time. What do they mean? “To a working person — supermarket checker, lawyer, highway crewman, housewife, cellist, computer repairer, teacher, waitress — spare time is the time not spent at your job or at otherwise keeping yourself alive, cooking, keeping clean, getting the car fixed, getting the kids to school. To people in the midst of life, spare time is free time, and valued as such. “But to people in their eighties? What do retired people have but ‘spare’ time? “I’m not exactly retired, because I never had a job to retire from. I still work, though not as hard as I did. I have always been and am proud to consider myself a working woman. But to the Questioners of Harvard my lifework has been a ‘creative activity,’ a hobby, something you do to fill up spare time. Perhaps if they knew I’d made a living out of it they’d move it to a more respectable category, but I rather doubt it. “The question remains: When all the time you have is spare, is free, what to do you make of it?…. “The opposite of spare time is, I guess, occupied time. In my case I still don’t know what spare time is because all my time is occupied. It always has been and it is now. It’s occupied by living. “An increasing part of living, at my age, is mere bodily maintenance, which is tiresome. But I cannot find anywhere in my life a time, or a kind of time, that is unoccupied. “I am free, but my time is not. “My time is fully and vitally occupied with sleep, with daydreaming, with doing business and writing friends and family on email, with reading, with writing poetry, with writing prose, with thinking, with forgetting, with embroidering, with cooking and eating a meal and cleaning up the kitchen, with consulting Virgil, with meeting friends, with talking with my husband, with going out to shop for groceries, with walking if I can walk and traveling if we are traveling, and sitting Vipassana sometimes, with watching a movie sometimes, with doing the Eight Precious Chinese exercises when I can, with lying down for an afternoon rest with a volume of Krazy Kat to read and my own slightly crazy cat occupying the region between my upper thighs and mid-calves, where he arranges himself and goes instantly and deeply to sleep. “None of this is spare time. I can’t spare it. What is Harvard thinking of? I am going to be eighty-one next week. I have no time to spare.”